Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Eric,
That's fine if you are near the boat, or can guarantee that you always have enough fresh water and do what Bill on Bebe did with a solenoid valve and a timer to flush the system regularly, but my point was the distinction between SMBsulphate and sulphite which are completely different chemicals.
I prefer to follow what the membrane manufacturer says, rather than what somebody "believes" to be true.
But each to his own....whatever works for you can be fine for you...but maybe not for me...
Cheers
Alan'
Elyse SM437


Re: Easter Island

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Eric,

Our friends from Colorado did that route in late 2014, on their new boat they had just picked up in France a few months earlier (not an Amel).  

Arrived in Easter and landed but did not complete the paperwork the first day.  Then early in the evening the Swedish boat anchored next to them dragged and was lost to the rocks.  Decided to leave for mainland Chile the next afternoon as the weather kept worsening.  The authorities then said on the radio they had to come back and complete the paperwork or they may not be let in into the mainland.  So our friends went back and spent a day or two ashore, but as the weather was not very cooperative, one of the crew remained aboard for the duration.

We ourselves visited Easter in 1997, but we did it the easy way: we flew in.

Their blog of their visit to Easter is below.  If you hit "older posts" you see  their daily log from Galapagos (14 days) and if you hit "newer posts" you see their photos from their visit and blog of the way around Cape horn and on to the Falkland and Georgia islands.


Cheerio,

Peregrinus
At anchor, Numana (near Ancona, Italy)



---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Has anyone sailed out that way from Panama ?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 


Easter Island

eric freedman
 

Has anyone sailed out that way from Panama ?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

eric freedman
 

I believe there are 2 discussions about pickling one is for the winter,  and one is general pickling.

 

After the sodium meta=whatever ate up my end caps- I stopped pickling it, I just run fresh water through it every few weeks when not in use. It has been fine for about 6 years. It is important to replace the prefilters as they do develop some growth in them.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 10:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

 

 

And here :

 

Dow Answer Center

Dow Answer Center

Sodium metabisulfite (SMBS) is commonly used for removal of free chlorine and as a biostatic. Other chemical reducing agents exist (e.g., sulfur dioxide), but they are not as cost-effective as SMBS.

Preview by Yahoo

 

 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 


Re: Pickling watermaker

Alan Leslie
 

And here :

Dow Answer Center

 


Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Pickling watermaker

Alan Leslie
 

Interestingly Dow Chemical, the manufacturer of the FILMTEC membranes talks of sodium meta bisulphite, not sulphate.

If you want to have the word from the horses mouth about everything to do with Filmtec RO membranes, don't listen to a "dealer" who may know very little and what he does know maybe wrong, go here :

Dow Answer Center

 

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
Marsden Cove



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Surveyor

Mohammad Shirloo
 

HI Steve;

I want to add my endorsement of Olivier. We did fly him to Turkey for the survey of our Amel 54. He was extremely professional and knowlegeable. Olivier spent 3 days during his survey and inspected everything from the top of the mast to the bottom of the keel. One of the extremely important benefits of using Olivier is the training that you receive during the survey which it's importance cannot be understated. Amels are complex boats with many systems and designs that are unique to Amels.

Olivier was also extremely patient with hundreds of questions that we had for him and took time to answer each and every one in detail. I would highly recommend using him so you avoid any potential surprises down the road.


Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099


Re: Surveyor

danielmfrey63@...
 

Hi

I had Steve Rowles for my Santorin.

Joe Rowles Internationally accredited marine surveyor operating throughout the Eastern Mediterranean

Greetings - Daniel


Re: Surveyor

william_maffei@...
 

I used Fergus Prescott who specializes in Amels. He is British but resides in Turkey. Did a great job in my opinion and was very reasonably priced. If you would like, personal message me and I'd be happy to share his contact information. 

Bill Maffei
SM #195
It's all Good



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Surveyor

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

+ 1000

Jean-Pierre Germain
ELEUTHERA, SM 007


On 21 Oct 2016, at 13:15, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Steve,

If I were you, instead to take a chance with a non-Amel surveyor that won’t understand the boat, I would fly Olivier, it will be money very well spent.
You coudn’t get better than him.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 10/21/16, mimtsqwbzz5xbfai4gco4otu3lpigperpq6qnatm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Surveyor
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Friday, October 21, 2016, 6:49 AM


 









Hi
         Does anyone have
contacts for a good surveyor with knowledge of Amels in
Turkey?RegardsSteve










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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Surveyor

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Steve,

If I were you, instead to take a chance with a non-Amel surveyor that won’t understand the boat, I would fly Olivier, it will be money very well spent.
You coudn’t get better than him.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 10/21/16, mimtsqwbzz5xbfai4gco4otu3lpigperpq6qnatm@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Surveyor
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 21, 2016, 6:49 AM


 









Hi
         Does anyone have
contacts for a good surveyor with knowledge of Amels in
Turkey?RegardsSteve










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Surveyor

mimtsqwbzz5xbfai4gco4otu3lpigperpq6qnatm@...
 

Hi

         Does anyone have contacts for a good surveyor with knowledge of Amels in Turkey?

Regards

Steve


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

James Alton
 

Ian,
 
   Great to hear that the prop generator has worked out so well for you.  The alternator and wiring is still in place on my boat but the driving pulley on the shaft was removed.  I will look into reinstalling it and getting the system working again.
 
Thanks,
 
James Alton
 
Maramu 220, Sueno
 
 

---- Original Message ----
From: Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

 
James
We crossed from Capo Verde to Barbados, 13 days and the batteries were 100% all the way , all instruments, fridge, SSB and autopilot.
In Caribbean as long as we are +5 knots the prop alternator keeps us well charged up.
We got the 2000 watt generator so the hairdryer and heated rollers would work. Peace and harmony rules!
The solar panels and generator are mainly for anchorages. We hardly ever use marinas. They've paid for themselves already.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96 (Grenada)
 
 
---- Original Message ----
From: Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

 
James
We crossed from Capo Verde to Barbados, 13 days and the batteries were 100% all the way , all instruments, fridge, SSB and autopilot.
In Caribbean as long as we are +5 knots the prop alternator keeps us well charged up.
We got the 2000 watt generator so the hairdryer and heated rollers would work. Peace and harmony rules!
The solar panels and generator are mainly for anchorages. We hardly ever use marinas. They've paid for themselves already.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96 (Grenada)


Re: flexible rubber coupling

Alan Leslie
 

I have seen two Super Maramus with broken coupling bolts because the nuts with spring washers had worked loose.
I put nyloc nuts on mine and check them for tightness after every long motoring...they have never come loose since I put nyloc nuts on them.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin

Ian Park
 

James
We crossed from Capo Verde to Barbados, 13 days and the batteries were 100% all the way , all instruments, fridge, SSB and autopilot.
In Caribbean as long as we are +5 knots the prop alternator keeps us well charged up.
We got the 2000 watt generator so the hairdryer and heated rollers would work. Peace and harmony rules!
The solar panels and generator are mainly for anchorages. We hardly ever use marinas. They've paid for themselves already.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96 (Grenada)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, I'll follow the instructions, its funny they told me (the dealer) that they just use the pink antifreeze, with glycol .
Thanks for taking the time,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

 
For my system here are the directions from Dessalator.  They have been slightly edited from the original translated version for clarity, and adjusted for the model installed on my Amel:

==========================
If the system will be out of service for more than one month:

1.  In a bucket, make a solution of 10 liters of water, 100 grams of Sodium bisulfate, and 2 liters of glycerine. Mix completely. [If I am not going to be in a cold water zone, I skip the glycerine]

2.  Place the suction hose from the pressure pump and the brine discharge line from the membrane in the bucket.

3.  Open the pressure regulating valve completely.

4.  Run the pump for 10 minutes circulating the solution through the seawater side of the membrane.

5.  Shut down the pump, and return hoses to their normal con nection points. Discard contents of the bucket.

For RE-START after storage:

1. Open pressure regulating valve completely. 

2.  Start the pump and run seawater through the system for 10 minutes with no back pressure.

3.  After 10 minutes of flushing, slowly rotate the pressure regulating valve clockwise until the flow gauge indicates the correct flow rate of product water, not exceeding 65 bar inlet pressure.
=======================

Dessalator's current product instructions use a "sterilizing cartridge" that dissolves the sodium bisulfate in-line and a straight glycerine solution made in a bucket.  What we call glycerine in the USA is called "gylcerol" in Europe.  I will give odds that got confused with gylcol at some point by somebody with limited chemistry ba ckground.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Annapolis, MD



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

greatketch@...
 

For my system here are the directions from Dessalator.  They have been slightly edited from the original translated version for clarity, and adjusted for the model installed on my Amel:

==========================
If the system will be out of service for more than one month:

1.  In a bucket, make a solution of 10 liters of water, 100 grams of Sodium bisulfate, and 2 liters of glycerine. Mix completely. [If I am not going to be in a cold water zone, I skip the glycerine]

2.  Place the suction hose from the pressure pump and the brine discharge line from the membrane in the bucket.

3.  Open the pressure regulating valve completely.

4.  Run the pump for 10 minutes circulating the solution through the seawater side of the membrane.

5.  Shut down the pump, and return hoses to their normal connection points. Discard contents of the bucket.

For RE-START after storage:

1. Open pressure regulating valve completely. 

2.  Start the pump and run seawater through the system for 10 minutes with no back pressure.

3.  After 10 minutes of flushing, slowly rotate the pressure regulating valve clockwise until the flow gauge indicates the correct flow rate of product water, not exceeding 65 bar inlet pressure.
=======================

Dessalator's current product instructions use a "sterilizing cartridge" that dissolves the sodium bisulfate in-line and a straight glycerine solution made in a bucket.  What we call glycerine in the USA is called "gylcerol" in Europe.  I will give odds that got confused with gylcol at some point by somebody with limited chemistry background.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Annapolis, MD



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill , I contacted Great Water the dealer a few years ago , and they advised me to just use potable antifreeze with glycol . Do you feel Sodium bisulfate would be better , if so I will use that, I see that you buy on ebay. Would it penetrate the membranes , or you pump it through with no pressure ?
Thanks,
Pat



-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 1:52 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

 
FYI:  The recommended chemical for long term pickling and storage of Dessalator membranes is NOT Sodium metabisulfate (Na2S2O5) rather it is Sodium bisulfate (NaHSO4).  

The long term storage solution should be  20% glycerin for freeze protection and 1% sodium bisulfate as a biocide.

They are VERY different chemicals with similar sounding names. Sodium metabisulfate is ONLY for short term cleaning of the membrane NOT storage.

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Annapolis, MD



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

Gary, Thanks for you detailed post, I will print it out and follow it. I wish pickling was not necessary ( read boat in Caribbean) , but a grandchild coming in Feb. can somehow mess with ones sailing schedule.
Thanks Again,
Pat SM # 123


-----Original Message-----
From: amelliahona
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 11:26 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker

 
Hi All:   The last reply is correct, in that the propylene glycol (NOT to be confused with ethylene glycol) antifreeze solution is too large of a molecule to penetrate the RO (reverse osmosis)  membranes.  

You should NOT raise the pressure in the system while circulating the anti-freeze solution.   Only the water that the propylene glycol is diluted in will penetrate the membrane NOT the antifreeze.

You have to think of your system as two separate loops;  A) the seawater side that includes the sea-chest, sea-water manifold,  low pressure feed pump, pre-filters, high pressure pump, sea-water side of the membranes and housing, control panel plumbing with the pressure knob and associated plumbing, and the brine water rejection plumbing to overboard, and B) the fresh water side of the membranes, the control panel plumbing with the diverter valve, and the lines to the fresh water tank.  

As you probably know I am against using meta-bisulfite for storage.  It is corrosive and damages all metal parts.  When using propylene glycol for winterization (anti-freeze protection) you need to protect both sides of the system.  To protect the sea water side circulate the antifreeze solution thru the system WITHOUT RAISING THE PRESSURE.  After having done that THEN using a syringe or other means of injecting some antifreeze solution flush the fresh water side by disconnecting the fresh water (product water) line at the membranes, allowing the membranes to drain, and then injecting some of the propylene glycol solution into the membrane cavity and thru the product water line.  I would guess that only about 3 or 4 ounces of the antifreeze injected down the product water lines will be adequate as it is a small bore line  and even less will fill the RO membrane center tube (disclaimer I haven't actually winterized my boat but see this:  


Note insert dots and slashes where indicated.

West Marine also has some information on their products for winterizing on their web site.

While there is no way to treat the entire fresh water contents of the membrane cavity (this isn't a loop that you can flush), the center product water tube will drain and you can back flush some antifreeze into that tube.  There isn't a great deal of fresh water volume in there anyway.  So let the fresh water side drain from the membranes, then fill as best you can with concentrated antifreeze then re-connect the already flushed product water tubing to membranes fresh water line.  The bulk of the volume of the cavity is filled with the membranes and the sea water volume.  If what little fresh water there is in the cavity freezes it won't burst or damage the membranes as there is room for expansion provided by the sea-water side which won't freeze. That is my theory at least, as there is no way to circulate propylene glycol thru the fresh water side of the membranes.   

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver    s/v Liahona   Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335 
Currently in Puerto Rico at Puerto Del Rey Marina


 


Re: Pickling watermaker

greatketch@...
 

Pat, 

I get mine from EBAY...

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Annapolis, MD