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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thrown
Hi Bill Where would I see that error code? My generator does not have an LCD/LED Panel but just a start rocker switch with one red light. There is hour meter but no others Ben Driver La Bella Vita SM #347 6S
On May 30, 2016, at 3:52 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thrown
Hi Bill Where would I see that error code? My generator does not have an LCD/LED Panel but just a start /stop rocker switch with one orange light. There is hour meter but no others Ben Driver La Bella Vita SM #347 6S
On May 30, 2016, at 3:52 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Eric, This is the connection that Alan refers to on the Amel installed Calpeda BCM20E pump:
All things are not perfect, but perfection is attempted. However, I think that you and others have replaced the Calpeda pump with a March/May magnetic drive pump which will eliminate this issue because the magnetic drive is not electrically bonded to the 230VAC motor (I think) and the magnetic drive can be connected to the Amel bonding without a connection to Earth. Bill BeBe 387
On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 8:26 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thro
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
The following message was accidentally sent to me rather than the group. Bill BeBe 387 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gaffney, Drew <drew.gaffney@...> Date: Tue, May 31, 2016 at 1:03 AM Subject: Re: Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thro To: "yahoogroups@..." <yahoogroups@...> Hi, There are only so many things that will kill the MDKAV without tripping a breaker. To me, it sounds like the high pressure Dessalator pump is competing with the Onan for water flow. You can test this by pulling the wires off the pressure sensor in the Onan hose leaving the impeller pump. You should be able to feel the pressure in the hose. See what it's like when the Onan is running normally and then have someone turn on the watermaker while you are squeezing the outflow hose of the Onan with the pressure transducer disconnected. If this is the problem, then I'd first look at the impeller of the Onan. It might be missing blades and therefore pumping less AND having less flow because the missing blades are plugging the heat exchanger. If the water flow is abnormal, check back to the sea water intake. Barnacles can grow there. If the Onan is able to handle high amp loads from the AC, dishwasher, tea kettle, etc., it should be able to support the watermaker. Typically, we're pulling 14-16A (we monitor VAC, Amps, Watts, and Hz with a small in-line LED meter. If you don't have one, look on the web site and get one... It's an invaluable tool. Good Luck! Drew SY Revelation SM390 Lying Liberty Landing Marina, Hoboken NJ
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Onan Generator
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Well, we decided to ask the Onan agent in Levkas to have a look at our problem ( which I am convinced is a sticky governor mechanism, having the effect of failing to increase the flow of fuel when load comes on ). The guy said he had been servicing Onans since the 1970's. After seeing the problem for himself and conferring with the main agent in Athens he pronounced that the problem was that Amel had designed the exhaust outlet too close to the water line, thus creating resistance......
Needless to say, he is now off the boat. I suppose that I will have to pay him something!
I am ordering the Engine Service Manual. The Service Manual says that for Over/Underspeed " check for internal binding of the governor mechanism and repair as necessary " The very helpful Onan agent I have also spoken to in the UK says that repair is pretty self explanatory from the Manual. I hope so!
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Levkas, Greece
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger
eric freedman
Hi Alan, I am not on Kimberlite. Could you Email me a photo of that connection? Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:23 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: correct installation of a new charger
Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding..... Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: correct installation of a new charger
Yes all good..>EXCEPT..there is a connection between the AC ground and the bonding circuit, in my boat at least and that is due to the 220VAC saltwater pump for the air conditioning...there the AC ground is connected to the "saltwater" ground or bonding.....
Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: correct installation of a new charger
Walter
Dear group,
I think there was a misunderstanding in Enios question regarding the batt-chargers connection. On the AC-side the charger connects to three cables: phase, neutral and earth. While phase and neutral "do" the electrical connection, earth is a safety feature: if there is any failure/broken cable in the device by which the housing might get "hot", the earth cable prevents an electrical shock. In europe the earth cable is green-yellow. Connecting the housing of the charger to the earth of the 220V system prevents electrical shock. Amel uses the green-yellow cable of the 220V AC circuit in the same way, but Amel uses another green-yellow cable system for a second purpose: connecting different metals to prevent electrolytic corrosion. All these cables unite finally in/to the strap in the bilge, which connects to the keel bolts. These two green-yellow cable systems (earth and bonding) should never be mixed or connected. From my experience hose-clamping the bonding cable to the seacocks, the manifold or other metals works fine, if everything is kept in good working order: dry. If the cables corrode: replace and keep dry. This will not work in the sump, unless you don´t use it ..., but that´s life. Everything said refers to the european standard of 220V AC wiring, in the US the wiring is handled a bit different. Regards, Walter (Noa, SM2K #436)
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Every bonding connection in my Super Maramu is made with stainless clamps, except the bolt on connections to the copper strap in the sump and the connection to the rudder, and some pump frames that have a bonding terminal.
I think that article whilst very good in some respects (eg house electricians!) has also some not quite correct information in it. This SS clamp thing for example, he says it won't work, but it does. The story about batteries discharging when left on a concrete floor, I think that has been debunked quite a few times. Take everything with a grain of salt, use common sense, and above all on these boats don't change it until you have really thought it through, there's a reason it is the way it is...maybe we just haven;t worked out what it is yet. Cheers from Fiji Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
That they are.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It’s not perfect, and requires more maintenance and awareness to be sure that there is a good, low resisitance connection between the bonding circuit and the hardware. If it is kept it clean and shiny and it will work fine. In a perfect work, every piece of marine hardware would come with a proper ground terminal connection. We certainly do not live in a perfect world!
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
eric freedman
The LP pump for the watermaker, the A/C pump, a few things on the manifold, the fuel fill and a few other things are all attached with S/S hose clamps. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2016 11:53 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Proper seacocks have screw posts for terminating the wires with crimped on terminals.
It’s not perfect, the terminals need to be renewed every few years, especially if they get damp with salt water, but it is better than hose clamps.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
Proper seacocks have screw posts for terminating the wires with crimped on terminals.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It’s not perfect, the terminals need to be renewed every few years, especially if they get damp with salt water, but it is better than hose clamps.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Andrew & Kate Lamb
Yes I am not sure how else one would connect them, perhaps with a copper tie rather than S/S certainly one of the wires looked very corroded.
Andrew
SM 472
On 31 May 2016, at 05:28, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
eric freedman
Amel connected almost of the bonding on Kimberlite with S/S hose clamps. Haven’t had a problem in 14 years. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2016 11:25 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
If you check that there is no continuity between the AC grounding (green/yellow) and the charger case AND there is no continuity between DC -ve and the charger case then it may be OK to connect it to the boat bonding. I would agree that the safest bet is to not connect the charger case to anything.
The article that Bill Kinsey provided a link to is very good. Interesting that it says "Do you have wires attached to sea cocks with hose clamps? Forget it. This is putting stainless and copper together, which are galvanically incompatible and it won't work" - I found Amel had done this on a cock I changed under the holding tank in the forward head at the weekend.
Andrew SM 472
Canet en Roussillon
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Andrew & Kate Lamb
If you check that there is no continuity between the AC grounding (green/yellow) and the charger case AND there is no continuity between DC -ve and the charger case then it may be OK to connect it to the boat bonding. I would agree that the safest bet
is to not connect the charger case to anything.
The article that Bill Kinsey provided a link to is very good. Interesting that it says "Do you have wires attached to sea cocks with hose clamps? Forget it. This is putting stainless and copper together,
which are galvanically incompatible and it won't work" - I found Amel had done this on a cock I changed under the holding tank in the forward head at the weekend.
Andrew
SM 472
Canet en Roussillon
On 30 May 2016, at 23:11, 'Bill & Judy Rouse'
yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Good advice, Kent. Bill Rouse
On May 30, 2016 5:09 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Kent !!!
Enio, I would not connect anything to the "grounding" screw for now. It should work fine. If you think there might be a problem with the charger before you can find a qualified electrician, check with your multimeter for voltage between the case and the engine block before you touch anything that might give you a shock...or better yet, just charge with your engine until you find the right electrician. My charger is NOT grounded to anything now. I'm not an expert by any means, so please feel free to critique my advice, anyone. Kent SM 243 Kristy "Currently" Bonaire
On May 30, 2016, at 3:07 PM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Thanks friends for all details. But I'm not able to find a qualified electrician able to know the electrical system of an Amel boat, nor are able to figure it out myself. But I need to know if I have to connect somewhere the Sterling heart or not. Can someone tell me somethings in addiction to formal notice of Kent (thank you Kent) connect the host to the bonding system? Thanks Enio
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thrown
Mohammad Shirloo
Hi Ben;
I just went through the exact same problem with our 150 l/hr Dessalator on our 54. I contacted MARTIN the main tech for Dessalator and we diagnosed the problem to the control box inside the high pressure pump. I'm not sure which HP pump you have, ours has the LaFert 2,2 HP pump (if I remember correctly). Inside the box on top of the pump there are two capacitors and one proprietary controller. One of the capacitors is for startup and the other one is for making sure the motor spin direction is correct. The controller controls the time and which capacitor is charged and discharged. I did not get into the Intricate details of exactly how everything works. Once I changed the controller, everything worked fine. Martin is a very knowledgable person and knows the Dessalator system inside out and I would suggest you call him to debug the problem. He is also a very nice person that speaks fluent English. His number is +33 6 07 34 65 11. Good luck and let us know how everything goes. Respectfully; Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #99
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main sheet traveler for Super Maramu
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Mark, Please let us know where you find this. Bill Rouse
On May 30, 2016 3:18 PM, "mark_pitt@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 160 causes generator to shutdown but no breakers thrown
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Good point, Danny. The Onan that Ben has is probably the same model as BeBe. Ben, you never mentioned any error code, so assumed there was no error code. Was there an error code? Insufficient water flow is 7 blinks. Did you have this error? Bill Rouse
On May 30, 2016 3:44 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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