Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

eric freedman
 

Danny,

Then how about coating the bolt with dielectric grease and see if that makes a change.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 1:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Hi Eric,

thanks for the reply. The new inserts are a very dense material and I have only done a couple of gentle day sails with no spray flying since they were put in so I doubt if salt would have penetrated. The bushings are a tight press fit and they are in two pieces meeting in the middle with a collar at each end so removal would not be simple

Regards

Danny
 

 


From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.

Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,

Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.

Obviously the new bushings worked for a while

 

 

Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?

 Pat SM # 123

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

Hi all,

I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.

For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.

These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.

The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.

I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)

At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass..

 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.

 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.

On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.

 

There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

 

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.

A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.

The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

   

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Eric,
thanks for the reply. The new inserts are a very dense material and I have only done a couple of gentle day sails with no spray flying since they were put in so I doubt if salt would have penetrated. The bushings are a tight press fit and they are in two pieces meeting in the middle with a collar at each end so removal would not be simple
Regards
Danny
 



From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 5:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.
Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,
Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.
Obviously the new bushings worked for a while
 
 
Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection
 
 
Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection
 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass..
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 
 
So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom
 
So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution
 
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat, No there is no change if the breakers are off. I wouldn't be concerned if it wasn't for the corrosion.
Regards
Danny
 



From: "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2015 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: yahoogroups
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

eric freedman
 

My guess is that salt has penetrated the new insert and you have made another battery.

Did you try removing the new insert and washers and soaking them for 24 hours in something like salt away ?This stuff  dissolves salt crystals and is used to clean out outboard motors. I use it to clean the salt of the rails, deck  and hardware after a long passage. See if that makes a difference,

Or just as a simple experiment , wrap the bolt in a lot of electrical tape without the bushings and see if you get the same voltage- my guess is , you will not.

Obviously the new bushings worked for a while

 

 

Amel intentionally did not connect the rigging to the bonding. They had their own thoughts about this which was never explained to me. I have my own thoughts on the subject which I will not discuss here-That is another can of worms.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 9:18 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?

 Pat SM # 123

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 

Hi all,

I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.

For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.

These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.

The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.

I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)

At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.

 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.

 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.

On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.

 

There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

 

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.

A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.

The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny , I have voltage  readings in that area as well. What happens if you shut the breakers off to the mast and boom motors ? Does the voltage change ?
 Pat SM # 123
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: yahoogroups
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 3:37 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electrolysis on mast/boom connection

 
Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block&nbs p;perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Sho uld I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

Patrick McAneny
 

James, I am  not a rigger , although I have installed standing rigging a few times. However I am a builder and have installed many compression posts in houses. I have always made sure that the post is absolutely plumb and straight . Once out of plumb it loses it ability to carry the loads and will more easily bend or move further out a plumb , increased loads could lead to sudden failure. It seems strange that you state that the compression post is " angled back fore and aft a lot ". I do not see how it would provide support being so far out of plumb. Perhaps someone with a Maramu could confirm that this is normal or not.  The two post angled out to the ribs would seem to be compression posts as well . Do you see any deflection in them or any deflection in the hull where they rest. Keep in mind that it looks like your mizzen mast has only moved downward very little at this point so any deflection would be slight and take close inspection to discern . Use a string pulled tightly one end placed against  each end of the posts , check it , and move around 90 degrees and check again . The string should lay flat against post , should be parallel . If you see a gap , then there is deflection . The hull eyeball it , a short straight edge maybe a foot long held on the outside of the hull horizontally where the post rest should show any hull deformation. If you find anything let the group know maybe we can come up with some suggestions .
 
Good Luck,
Pat SM Shenanigans
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: j.lochhead@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 4:32 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

 
Hi Patrick and Sailor,
Thanks for your responses.
The maramu is a bit different from the SM from what I can work out.  There is a small "compression" post under the seat that Then in the engine bay there are 2 posts that are angled to port and starboard onto ribs in the hull.  I will check all these again today but they look in good condition. 

Interestingly though the post under the seat is angled back a lot fore and aft, so I don't think this could possibly be taking all the load.  It has always been like this as long as we have had the boat and I don't see how it could possibly have been installed in column with the mast as the seat construction would make this impossible.  I would love to hear from other maramu owners on their setup.

Given this I think that the fibreglass seat must be acting as some sort of "beam" that is transferring the load down to the p osts in the engine bay.  What I cant work out is how this seat section is fixed in place.  I will be spending a bit more time trying to work this out today.

As far as the mast rake I have read the posts on spreader cracking and it appears that there should be a small amount of rake, at least on the SM.  Would love to know if this is the same as the maramu.

 I will loosening the forestay today and will see what this results in.

Lastly I did not say that this damage occurred at anchor.  We have not sailed the boat in the time between when I tuned the rig and noticed the damage.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Spreader cracks

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Ian

Do you know from what hull number / year Amel changed their Spreader supplier?

Also did your mast ever suffer from a pumping/ vibration movement in the section of main mast around the top spreaders when docked in a fixed berth with the wind coming over 15kts from the rear quarters?

We have recently re-rigged and the vibration is now not as pronounced any more but still occurs sometimes to a much lesser extent. We have checked our spreaders very carefully and there is absolutely no sign of any paint cracks or problems there, but was wondering if the mast pumping in that area could cause the cracks?

The main reason we will be adding a staysail with running backstays is due to this pumping action which we cannot seem to get rid of entirely plus for peace of mind if the forestay every gives way.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332 (2001)
Brisbane

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus
Jamie,

sorry to be late with this reply but I would like to add my input. Twelve weeks after taking delivery of my new SM2K I was at anchor off Cartright Labrador after a voyage from Ireland to Greenland. Whilst doing my daily walk around the boat I did notice a fleck of white paint on the deck. There did not seem to be any obvious source of the paint and being single handed, an up mast inspection was not possible at that time. I concluded that the fleck of paint may have been blown from the shore and continued my voyage to Newfoundland. A week later whilst on a broad reach with the port tangon poling out the genoa, I suffered a dis-masting after the port lower main mast spreader failed at the weld to the mast bracket.

Forensic analysis showed that the weld had not been properly prepared, too little heat had been used and too little argon used as well. It turned out that Amel had changed fabricators and the new company clearly had failed to do the job properly. The boat built prior to mine (413) also discovered cracks in a spreader just prior to starting a crossing to the Caribbean. By chance they had to go up the mast to re-rig a flag halyard and noticed the failure.

In my view, one of the least satisfactory design features of the Amel is the way in which they construct their spreaders. Unlike almost every other manufacturer they rely on butt welding the spreader extrusion to the mast bracket. Unlike almost every other manufacturer there is no insert into the extrusion with pins or bolts so if that weld fails, as mine did, it is not fail safe. The broken spreader will come off the bracket and the side support is gone. I did suggest to M. Lemonnier that an improvement would be to drill a hole in each end of the spreader and fix a tie rod between the end plates to at least keep the spreader in place should the weld fail, but he dismissed the idea outright.

To be fair to Amel they did change the spreaders on 30 boats that had been built with spreaders from the new fabricator. However, you should be aware that the welds are not normally subjected to NDT testing and so I would suggest that you keep a very close eye on your paint cracking. You may be heading for a spreader failure further down the log.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus

On 15/10/2015 08:54, jamiectelfer@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Hello Olivier,


The port-side is much less visible and to my amateur eye really does seem only to be in the surface paint. 

Yes, the shrouds are the right way round (I have to confess I did just go up on deck to check!). The rigger who did it has worked with Amels before and we tried to replicate the same tight set up with me checking that there is no looseness in the leeward shrouds when on the wind.....HOWEVER during this season I had noticed a very slight new vibration in the upper section of the mast with certain wind angles over the rig when we are tied up to the dock (but not when sailing or at anchor).  When we replaced the rigging we set the mast up to be pretty straight with no bend aft-wards but I think I can now detect a very slight inversion (forward bend) at the top of the mast. The reason I had a rigger on the boat when we arrived in Brisbane was not only to check the whole rig but also to consult him about adjusting this, albeit only marginally. We certainly didn't seem to have any extra movement or pumping when sailing but I am now wondering if this may be part of the issue or at least an indication of it.

If the cracking does turn out to only be superficial (in the paint) do you think we should still take further action on the spreaders or just make sure the set up is absolutely correct and keep a close eye on it?

Bien cordialement

Jamie
Bamboozle SM #388




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

Paul Osterberg
 

Eric
A sheave box just below the stay fitting, and a halyard outlet on the port side of the mast oposit the outlet for the balloner halyard.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

eric freedman
 

Paul,

Thank you for the explanation.

I will appreciate the photos whenever it is convenient.

Also, how is the halyard rigged?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 5:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

 

 

Eric and Collin

I will soon leave the boat for a few weeks, and currently the rain is poring down and my forward locker i full of stuff that needed to be taken out for the photos, so I will do that Mid January when back on the boat again.

But general the deck fitting and installation is very much as the pictures in the photo sections but my deck plate is larger 20X15 cm and thickness is 4 mm, the same dimensions for the backing plate.

Then a turnbuckle and the same concept at the floor of the locker with a hatch to get access, as in the pictures.

The mast fitting is 150 cm below the fore stay, actually Olivier had seen the deck installation and he confirmed it was good and also confirm OK with the 150 cm distans at the top of the mast

The mast fitting is by Selden.

My aim was the have a small jib for upwind in strong wind, and to be able to have the sheet inside the shrouds, therefore the size is limited to ca 22 sqm, I would liked it a little bit larger. However the clew (Spelling?) Should be rather high to be able sheet rather hard and avoid the top falling out to get better angle to the wind.

As sheeting point I have experimented with a Dynema cord between the forward chain plate for the lower shrouds and the mast base where the rope kick is fastened. on the Dynema cord I have an Antal ring which the sheet is lead through. by adjusting the tension on the Dynema cord I can adjust the sheeting point athwart ship and how high above deck it should be. Reason for the Antal ring is to have the sheeting point low as a block would get to high, hence keep the clew higher than I did.

We have not been able to test in strong wind, but confident the sheeting point will work and also be detachable to avoid stumbling on it when not in use. It will be a very simple and easy system to deploy in just a minute.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

Paul Osterberg
 

Eric and Collin
I will soon leave the boat for a few weeks, and currently the rain is poring down and my forward locker i full of stuff that needed to be taken out for the photos, so I will do that Mid January when back on the boat again.
But general the deck fitting and installation is very much as the pictures in the photo sections but my deck plate is larger 20X15 cm and thickness is 4 mm, the same dimensions for the backing plate.
Then a turnbuckle and the same concept at the floor of the locker with a hatch to get access, as in the pictures.
The mast fitting is 150 cm below the fore stay, actually Olivier had seen the deck installation and he confirmed it was good and also confirm OK with the 150 cm distans at the top of the mast
The mast fitting is by Selden.
My aim was the have a small jib for upwind in strong wind, and to be able to have the sheet inside the shrouds, therefore the size is limited to ca 22 sqm, I would liked it a little bit larger. However the clew (Spelling?) Should be rather high to be able sheet rather hard and avoid the top falling out to get better angle to the wind.
As sheeting point I have experimented with a Dynema cord between the forward chain plate for the lower shrouds and the mast base where the rope kick is fastened. on the Dynema cord I have an Antal ring which the sheet is lead through. by adjusting the tension on the Dynema cord I can adjust the sheeting point athwart ship and how high above deck it should be. Reason for the Antal ring is to have the sheeting point low as a block would get to high, hence keep the clew higher than I did.
We have not been able to test in strong wind, but confident the sheeting point will work and also be detachable to avoid stumbling on it when not in use. It will be a very simple and easy system to deploy in just a minute.

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

jjjk12s@...
 

James,

Mizzen

I think the evidence of excess compression at the mizzen is not very unusual but a worse than normal example judging by the photos. As you point out it is probably not a problem though. The angled design at that time between the mast foot and the compression post (under the cockpit seat) would put forward pressure at that point and buckle the seat if too much compression is put on. As the mainmast has it's own backstay and the mizzen is small, I can't see an advantage of making the mizzen rig very tight unless you a big user of the mizzen staysail, so I would er on the side of caution and loosen off a couple of turns on the turnbuckles. Obviously check the area under the seat as much as possible, and the fastenings. I can't imagine there would be any problem below that. Keep an eye on it getting any worst though.  I don't think slackening the rig will put the seat back where it used to be.

Main

It seems unlikely you could have forced the bulkhead under the mainmast downwards if all your woodwork is in good condition. Hopefully there is a simpler explanation for the forward bulkhead door like hinges or something.

If you can see the bottom of the mast compression post for the main mast I would check it for any sign of rot. It should be sheathed in fibreglass so may be hard to tell. I have not heard of it being a problem but it can sit in freshwater a lot if water is left in the sump where the sounder transducer and seacock for the forward head is. This is basically your worst case scenario but even so I can't imagine you could force this bulkhead out of alignment unless the shrouds were really massively overtightened because of the fully tabbed in main bulkhead giving structural support.

The Maramu does have a simple rig and I can't imagine the tuning is that critical. I've had a few yachts and done a few ocean crossings including in a Sparkman and Stephen 39 with a fancy tall pre-bent mast which I re-rigged myself and sailed from East Africa to England including encountering some faily rough weather going up the Red Sea, in the Med and off Portugal, all without the rig falling down;) If if you don't use a lot of force and/or big tools you would be hard pressed to deform your boat by a small tightening of the rig. Taking a huge spanner to get more leverage, or really putting weight into turning the turnbuckles is different.

I would try not to loose too much sleep over it at this stage..even if the rig has been over-tightened boats can flex and have some spring to return to their original shape rather than just bending!....Before I did lose sleep, I would check the bulkhead door accurately then slacken the mainmast rigging (write down the number of turns for if you want to put it back) and then check the door again. You may have a bit of flex and it show up rather than any permanent deformation. As for what to do about trying to improve it, you can check your rake with a plumb line. My mast is basically straight. I don't see a problem with a little aft bend but I personally would keep the rig so that it is straight and true to the centre-line (checked with the plumb line from the mainsail halyard sheeve) and have the rig so there is a slight slack (but no floppiness) on the leaward rigging when under moderate sail and healing. If adjusting the rigging do a little at a time and always note numbers of turns. Tack to do the same on the otherside. Check the mast is still in line and make sure not to overtighten. Adjust the stays to make sure the mast is straight and has no "S' bend. Obviously easier on the earlier Maramu with a single spreader otherwise do that same with adjusting the intemediates to avoid an "S" shape in the mast. As for fore and aft, you obviously want the rig tight enough to have little sag in the forestay and headsail luff. So you need the back-stay tight enough to have correct tension in the forestay without the mast bending forwards. If your forestay is rock solid with no bowing under a decent sail it is probably too tight - unless you are a Volvo 70:)

Lastly please note this response is my own personal opinion and I am not a rigger. I am replying as you have asked for opinion from a Maramu owner and according to what you have said the rig was set up by a rigger and then only tightened 1 1/2 turns by yourself  (a couple of mm at the most) so it sounds like you may be unduly worried. I have an early Maramu with a non furling mainsail and a single spreader Isomat mast.

John Maramu #91 1981 Popeye (located in Port Douglas the home of Peter Grieg - probably the best rigger on the East coast of Australia who does also sometimes travel to Townsville so maybe did your boat?)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water pump runs constantly.

eric freedman
 

 

Dear Jean-Pierre,

I have one of the “Y” traps to catch the impeller blades.

However I found that it was heavy. Do you have a photo or two, that show how you supported or mounted the trap?

Please E-mail to me at kimberlite@... if it is convenient.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Hello Peter,

 

I followed your trip during the ARC.  Well done getting to St Lucia..  Onan running fine after I corrected various problems caused by.....

 

I have installed an “impeller blade catcher” in the feed to the heat exchanger and also installed a spring loaded “non return valve” in the raw water feed to the impeller.  No more dry running for the impeller or digging out impeller blades in the heat exchanger.

 

Hopefully this mod will stand the test of time. :-)

 

Cheers and Seasons Greetings to you and your wife.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain,

SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007

 

 

On 16 Dec 2015, at 11:38, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

An open tap - Ohoh.

 

We are in St Lucia - hope you are having fun.

 

Onan still going well - so far/

 

Peter

Peter Forbes

0044 7836 209730

Carango  Sailing Ketch

Amel 54 #035

Travelling West in the Atlantic Ocean

 

On 16 Dec 2015, at 01:53, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Amel Gang,

 

Dumb mistake… DUMB!!

 

We have Xmas decos on our combing to the port side of the gangway including an extension cord for the individual light strings.

 

One of the other liveaboards wanted to inspect our new electronic installation and I powered all the cockpit electric busses in order to demonstrate.  Guess what? the extension cord activated the anchor wash water pump switch… (we have fresh water anchor wash thus the pump ran constantly until I witnessed the big red light.) 

 

DOH!

 

Problem solved. :-)  Thank you Bill… pump type now noted.

 

 

 

On 15 Dec 2015, at 18:15, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

JP,

 

I wish that you had stated which water pump you have and what pressure the system is achieving....you did not, so my answers are in general terms.

 

The following is the most likely listed first:

  1. The one-way valve on the pump is not sealing
  2. The pressure switch and/or valve is malfunctioning
  3. The impeller is damaged or not keyed to the shaft.
  4. There is an open line or tap somewhere

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:50 PM, jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Gang,

 

I cannot find anything in the "conversations" though I recall it being discussed in the past. (The search function is hidden where???)

 

As the title says... I suspect it is a pressure sensor problem.  can anyone offer some guidance? Remember my girl is an early hull but most everything aboard is new...

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM 007

 

 

 


Posted by: "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> 


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Posted by: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...> 


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electrolysis on mast/boom connection

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,
I have a problem I would like your collective wisdom on.
For a couple of years I have had electrolysis/corrosion occurring on the plates on the mast that receive the boom.
These two horizontal plates have a vertical bolt passing through them and through an alloy block through which a horizontal bolt passes attaching the boom.
The corrosion is exclusively on the plates on the mast.
I started by cleaning off and applying the appropriate aluminum paint systems. (And have done several times)
At the same time I did my best to isolate the stainless bolts from the alloy components with plastic washers. There are fiber inserts through which the bolts pass.
 This had no effect and the corrosion continued. Investigating with a multi meter I found up to 0.7 of a volt between the mast and the vertical bolt and the vertical bolt and the alloy block it passes through, however not the horizontal bolt.
 This voltage is enough to cause the damage.
On the advice of a marine electrician I drilled and tapped the various components (mast bolts, alloy block and boom) and connected them with electric cable which of course eliminated the differential but didn't seem to stop the corrosion. Logic seemed to suggest a "battery" was being created between this bolt and the block perhaps caused by degradation of the fiber inserts and invasion by salt crystals. 

So I had new ones made by a marine engineer using material he believed robust and with good insulating properties. After installing these I removed the connecting wires and joy... no differential. That was a few weeks ago. Now I find a differential of 0.4 of a volt...woe.
 
There is no differential between the two electric motors and the mast at rest. The corrosion is exclusively occurring on the plates on the mast that secure the boom

So now I have replaced the connecting wires and of course there is no differential. Question. Should I connect the mast to the bonding system that connects to the zinc anodes on the rudder.
A thought, does Amel connect the mast to the bonding system? if so perhaps I have lost a connection.
The corrosion is getting serious so I need to find a solution

Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Spreader cracks

Ian Shepherd
 


Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus
Jamie,

sorry to be late with this reply but I would like to add my input. Twelve weeks after taking delivery of my new SM2K I was at anchor off Cartright Labrador after a voyage from Ireland to Greenland. Whilst doing my daily walk around the boat I did notice a fleck of white paint on the deck. There did not seem to be any obvious source of the paint and being single handed, an up mast inspection was not possible at that time. I concluded that the fleck of paint may have been blown from the shore and continued my voyage to Newfoundland. A week later whilst on a broad reach with the port tangon poling out the genoa, I suffered a dis-masting after the port lower main mast spreader failed at the weld to the mast bracket.

Forensic analysis showed that the weld had not been properly prepared, too little heat had been used and too little argon used as well. It turned out that Amel had changed fabricators and the new company clearly had failed to do the job properly. The boat built prior to mine (413) also discovered cracks in a spreader just prior to starting a crossing to the Caribbean. By chance they had to go up the mast to re-rig a flag halyard and noticed the failure.

In my view, one of the least satisfactory design features of the Amel is the way in which they construct their spreaders. Unlike almost every other manufacturer they rely on butt welding the spreader extrusion to the mast bracket. Unlike almost every other manufacturer there is no insert into the extrusion with pins or bolts so if that weld fails, as mine did, it is not fail safe. The broken spreader will come off the bracket and the side support is gone. I did suggest to M. Lemonnier that an improvement would be to drill a hole in each end of the spreader and fix a tie rod between the end plates to at least keep the spreader in place should the weld fail, but he dismissed the idea outright.

To be fair to Amel they did change the spreaders on 30 boats that had been built with spreaders from the new fabricator. However, you should be aware that the welds are not normally subjected to NDT testing and so I would suggest that you keep a very close eye on your paint cracking. You may be heading for a spreader failure further down the log.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus

On 15/10/2015 08:54, jamiectelfer@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Hello Olivier,


The port-side is much less visible and to my amateur eye really does seem only to be in the surface paint. 

Yes, the shrouds are the right way round (I have to confess I did just go up on deck to check!). The rigger who did it has worked with Amels before and we tried to replicate the same tight set up with me checking that there is no looseness in the leeward shrouds when on the wind.....HOWEVER during this season I had noticed a very slight new vibration in the upper section of the mast with certain wind angles over the rig when we are tied up to the dock (but not when sailing or at anchor).  When we replaced the rigging we set the mast up to be pretty straight with no bend aft-wards but I think I can now detect a very slight inversion (forward bend) at the top of the mast. The reason I had a rigger on the boat when we arrived in Brisbane was not only to check the whole rig but also to consult him about adjusting this, albeit only marginally. We certainly didn't seem to have any extra movement or pumping when sailing but I am now wondering if this may be part of the issue or at least an indication of it.

If the cracking does turn out to only be superficial (in the paint) do you think we should still take further action on the spreaders or just make sure the set up is absolutely correct and keep a close eye on it?

Bien cordialement

Jamie
Bamboozle SM #388


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

eric freedman
 

Paul,

Would you please send me photos of your inner forestay installation including the running rigging and mast fittings.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

Please send to

Kimberlite@...

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2015 8:08 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

 

 

Hello!

I know them, they made my new sails, and also installed my inner fore stay. The experience as a customers was average. Have not tested the sails yet as they arrived when at winter mooring in Finike

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Hi Paul

We are gong to install an inner fore stay for stay sail too. Did these guys do anything different to the other pictures that are on the site? If so we would be interested to see a picture of how they fitted this to the hull under the deck? We are not keen to drill through the hull below the waterline on the bow so wondering if yours had another method to strengthen it?

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:07 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello!

I know them, they made my new sails, and also installed my inner fore stay. The experience as a customers was average. Have not tested the sails yet as they arrived when at winter mooring in Finike

Paul on S/Y Kerpa




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

j.lochhead@...
 

Hi Patrick and Sailor,

Thanks for your responses.

The maramu is a bit different from the SM from what I can work out.  There is a small "compression" post under the seat that Then in the engine bay there are 2 posts that are angled to port and starboard onto ribs in the hull.  I will check all these again today but they look in good condition. 


Interestingly though the post under the seat is angled back a lot fore and aft, so I don't think this could possibly be taking all the load.  It has always been like this as long as we have had the boat and I don't see how it could possibly have been installed in column with the mast as the seat construction would make this impossible.  I would love to hear from other maramu owners on their setup.


Given this I think that the fibreglass seat must be acting as some sort of "beam" that is transferring the load down to the posts in the engine bay.  What I cant work out is how this seat section is fixed in place.  I will be spending a bit more time trying to work this out today.


As far as the mast rake I have read the posts on spreader cracking and it appears that there should be a small amount of rake, at least on the SM.  Would love to know if this is the same as the maramu.


 I will loosening the forestay today and will see what this results in.


Lastly I did not say that this damage occurred at anchor.  We have not sailed the boat in the time between when I tuned the rig and noticed the damage.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

Duane Siegfri
 

Jaimie,

First, please don't be alarmed by my thoughts below.  I'm a structural engineer (not a naval architect/engineer) and these are some things I would check.

Check every bit of the compression posts down to the bottom at the hull.  It seems to me that you could have one of the following possibilities:

1.There is corrosion that has weakened the compression post causing local buckling of the post walls, or a base plate is corroded, or the compression post has buckled, either of which could result in a shortening of the post and the deflection you see at the base of the Mizzen.  Check the hull where the compression post rests with special care looking for fiberglass cracking.

2. The rig could be so extremely overtightened that it is bending the entire boat.  This could have happened in the past resulting in damage that your current tightening has exacerbated.  There is tension in the forestay and backstay pulling up on the ends of the boat, the masts push downward resulting in the fore to aft bending of the hull (imagine a giant with his thumbs where the masts are and fingers at the end of the boat, pushing with his thumbs).  This is a load the boat is designed for, but it is possible to overload anything.  This seems a very remote possibility but does account for your report of things not lining up that did in the past.  Have you made any hull, bulkhead or deck modifications?

3.  The shrouds may be overtightened which would result in bending of the hull athwartships, but that seems much more unlikely to cause the observed damage than #2.

The sternward rake of the masts (both of them?) could be problematic.  It would be helpful for those here who know more about adjusting the rig than I if you measured the rake.  Perhaps someone else could advise you on this.  Check the message history for Beaute Olivier on Oct 20, 2015 in a thread titled "Spreader Cracks" for some guidance on where the mast should be.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

Patrick McAneny
 

James, I am not familiar with the Maramu , but from the photos it looks as though the mizzen mast has depressed the fiberglass , which is probably not structural , not supposed to carry a load . It looks like a metal compression post under the mast which should prevent the mast from moving vertically downward. I would inspect the base upon where the compression post rests. See if you can detect damage to the base or the end of the compression post. Also try to determine if the post is in column ( not bowed) . My guess would be that someone over tightened the rig at  some point , something had to give and I suppose it probably was the compression post , my guess is its out of column .
Good Luck,
Pat SM #123
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: j.lochhead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 17, 2015 12:27 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

 
Hi,
 
We had the rigging replaced in Townsville, Australia a couple of months ago before sailing to PNG.  The rigging was rigged tight (or I thought it was anyway)  The mizzen backstays where perhaps a bit looser, these and the triatic where replaced a year earlier due to an issue with the insulators  The rigger advised, as usual, that the rigging needed to be tightened after sailing for a bit.
 
2 things have happened since I have tightened the rigging (only 1 ½ turns and always doing one shroud then the opposite before moving to the next)
1 – The deadbolt on our forward bulkhead door was always a bit hard to close but now it is completely out of line (striking too high)
2 – The rope storage behind the mizzen has cracked where it is fixed to the bulkhead at the rear of the cockpit.  Also the starboard seat rear in the cockpit has lifted.  Both non structural items, but indicators that something is happening that is not good.  Lastly the front of the seat where the mizzen mast is stepped appears to have deformed a bit.  It was like this before I tightened the rig, but I think it may have gotten worse.   I will post photos.
 
The masts also appear to have a very slight rake backwards above the spreaders.  I am not sure if this was like this before.
 
All of this has got me very worried.  I am in a place with not expertise in yachts, let alone Amel’s
 
Please can I get some advice. 
James   


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!
I know them, they made my new sails, and also installed my inner fore stay. The experience as a customers was average. Have not tested the sails yet as they arrived when at winter mooring in Finike

Paul on S/Y Kerpa