Date   

Re: Starting Capacitor size for a 220v, 50Hz 2.5 kw water maker high pressure motor

 

Sorry about that.  It is actually µF


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 2:14 PM Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thank you BIll,
It looks almost identical but mine has a single capacitor with 54 micro F.  Yours has 2 of 30 mF in parallel (60 mF). is the m for micro of mili?  If it is micro, it is bad news for me because it would mean that my capacitor is OK and the motor is dead.  If it is mil, then my capacitor needs to be replaced.

Jose 
SM2K 278 


Re: Starting Capacitor size for a 220v, 50Hz 2.5 kw water maker high pressure motor

Jose Venegas
 

Thank you BIll,
It looks almost identical but mine has a single capacitor with 54 micro F.  Yours has 2 of 30 mF in parallel (60 mF). is the m for micro of mili?  If it is micro, it is bad news for me because it would mean that my capacitor is OK and the motor is dead.  If it is mil, then my capacitor needs to be replaced.

Jose 
SM2K 278 


Re: Starting Capacitor size for a 220v, 50Hz 2.5 kw water maker high pressure motor

 

Jose,

This probably is not what you are looking for, but....here you go.

This is the 220 volt motor for the Dessalator 150/160 liter water maker, but maybe newer than you SM.
image.png

If that is yours, this may help:
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 1:42 PM Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
The water maker high-pressure pump motor is not starting and breaking the AC circuits of shore power and Onan Generator.  It is a LeRoy motor. I have checked for a short circuit and seems OK. (1-ohm resistance between poles and 12.5 Khoms from pole to the earth)  The starting motor capacitor specs are not visible.  I measured  48 micro F, which seems small for the motor size.  Does anybody know if that is the proper size?  The motor makes a very short humming sound before the AC circuits jump.  Before I remove the motor and proceed with major surgery, I would like to know if the capacitor is the proper one or has failed.

Thanks in advance

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2000  278
Currently grounded in Grenada awaiting for the opening of Colombian ports to proceed. 


Starting Capacitor size for a 220v, 50Hz 2.5 kw water maker high pressure motor

Jose Venegas
 

The water maker high-pressure pump motor is not starting and breaking the AC circuits of shore power and Onan Generator.  It is a LeRoy motor. I have checked for a short circuit and seems OK. (1-ohm resistance between poles and 12.5 Khoms from pole to the earth)  The starting motor capacitor specs are not visible.  I measured  48 micro F, which seems small for the motor size.  Does anybody know if that is the proper size?  The motor makes a very short humming sound before the AC circuits jump.  Before I remove the motor and proceed with major surgery, I would like to know if the capacitor is the proper one or has failed.

Thanks in advance

Jose Venegas
Ipanema SM2000  278
Currently grounded in Grenada awaiting for the opening of Colombian ports to proceed. 


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Gary Silver
 

Hi All:  
I inquired of Cummins (Onan) about the specifics of changing the generator bearing.  The original person that helped me sent me copies of the updated (latest and greatest) parts and master service manuals for my 7MDKAL-431 genset (posted them in the files section with May 2020 in the title).  He escalated my request for help to his superiors and they responded but indicated that the service should only be done my a "certified Onan" technician.  After explaining to them that several of us (out of a group of owners having about 800 of their gen-sets) had attempted using a "Onan certified technician"  and the technicians had never done it and didn't want to do it.  I finally prevailed on Onan to give me the procedure after explaining that I am an FAA certified aircraft mechanic and know my way around wrenches.  Here is the reply to my questions that I request be directed to a technician who had actually done the procedure: 
Question 1.  Is the rotor able to be self supported when the end-bell is removed.   Answer:  "The rotor can support itself for a small amount of time. I would not leave it unsupported for more than 60 minutes, but it should be fine to remove the end bell"   This is in line with what Craig said relative to a Northern Lights genset.  
Question 2.  What is the degree of engineered interference fit for the bearing in the counter-bore and on the rotor shaft.  In other words how much difficulty can I expect in removing the end-bell.  The service manual says to “tap” it off.  Is that realistic or can I expect a major struggle. Answer:  "I personally used a 2 jaw puller or if the end bell has threaded holes a steering wheel puller to remove it. The other option is to use 2 pry bars at the outside edges and slowly work it off. It is a fairly tight fit or should be unless the bearing began to turn in the end bell housing  Note: be sure to disconnect F1 and F2 as the exciter stator will come off with the end bell."

Thanks to Onan for stepping up and getting me the info.   Now all I have to do is perform this service.  Hope this is helpful to others. 

Gary S. Silver, M.D. 
sv Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Boat: Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico
Me: Farmington, Utah, USA



 


Re: Insurance

David Vogel
 

Owners of SM#396, svPerigee, Australian registered, are interested in potential aspects of self-insurance within a group of AMEL owners. 

 

Currently insured with: Pantaenius Australia, expiry Oct’20; FORM: comprehensive (all risks); Amount insured: ~AUD450k (~USD295k); Premium: ~AUD9k (~USD6k)

 

1.Owner: D&L Vogel

2. Hull Number: SM#396

3. Year boat built: 2003

4. How long owned by current owner: since Oct’16

5. Cruising experience

*Years sailing: 20+, on and off.

*Nautical Miles Sailed: ~10,000nm prior to ownership; since ownership ~16,000nm;

*Cruising ground in past: Australia QLD; Med; UK; US East Coast; Caribbean; Central Americas; South Pacific

*Future Sailing Plans: South Pacific, expect 3,000 to 5,000nm per annum

6. Last Out of Water Survey: Oct’16

7. Any Insurance Claims

*Year: no marine or aviation claims (non-current commercial pilot); Automobile, 2010;

*Circumstances: other car merged into me

*Amount of claim: ~CHF10k

*Amount recovered: unknown; I simply paid the insurance excess (deductible)

8. Are you interested in participating in a group insurance plan or a self-insured plan for members only? Potentially YES,
       this EoI is to contribute to establishing an understanding of the baseline level of interest.

 

 

Understanding, based on quick read-though of the discussions:

Concept: covered only against total constructive loss @ 10% deductable; named tropical storm (subject to date/geographic limitations, and other caveats to minimise exposure) @ [30]% deductible; or lightning damage @ [30]% deductable (higher deductibles to 60% or even 80% for those making claims in known high-risk areas, such as Florida – basically, self-insuring against such risk in those known high-risk areas).

Annual premiums: [5] years buy-in “deposit” @ ~2.0% (~USD6k pa); thereafter annual top-up to cover annual losses due to claims plus annual contribution to cover operating/admin costs in order of 0.2% (USD600-pa).  New members do the same.  Co-insurance with underwriter to cover losses greater than [3] total-loss-claims in any given year.  Notional buy-out is 50% of deposits paid, with an final adjustment paid after a further 5 years’ fund operation –  that is, cash-value, not allowing for gains, such as interest received (and no refund of annual top-ups).  Adjustment of annual premiums / calls etc conducted like a real-estate body corporate (administering shared common property) with a “sinking fund” (making provision for known future potential expenses/risks, only some of which may, or may not, come to be realised).

 

Proposal: Insured value is range-based on a value determined by AMEL owners’ cooperative – with provisions for / based on existing known (blue-book) depreciation schedules, with variation for various states of upgrades / maintenance etc. – that is, could not insure a well-maintained and operated year 2000 SM for, say, USD500k; only within a range of, say, USD[250]k to USD[275]k, diminishing at, say, [3-5]% in dollar terms for exceptionally well-maintained (all to better than OEM spec); [5-8]% for well-maintained (all to spec); [8-12]% for maintained ‘mostly to spec’; [>12]% for maintained less than spec … or whatever – has to be simple to do (for an owner to both do and to prove), and to externally assess.

 

Concept expansion: built assets to cover worst reasonably foreseeable losses for [5] years running; say, [5] hulls per year, for [5] years, = 25 hulls at weighted-average of USD350k @ 90% payout figure =~USD8.0m to fund the insurance fund.  Basically, need to rapidly build to 250 hulls, each contributing 2% for 5 years, with no losses in the first 5 years (or with underwriting to cover any losses in the first 5 years).  Consider that.

 

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, 17 May 2020 at 3:22 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

 

Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243


Re: A54 mainsail manual furler gearbox maintenance

Courtney Gorman
 

Is a seal there in the box is filled with Grease it’s probably time for you to dismantle and repack it


On May 20, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Hi all,

Can anyone advise on the maintenance required for the manual furler box for the mainsail on the A54? Ours shows signs of corrosion around the winch handle socket. 

Another confinement project starts!

Cheers 
Thomas


GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Oliver,
Yes, that does seem to be a strange statement in the manual to "inspect every 2000h or 5 years". I am at a loss to know what or how you would inspect it, unless perhaps, it was visibly corroded or something like that. 
Sorry but I don't know the spec/size for the bearing on your Onan genset.
Cheers, Craig


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thank you Thomas. I’ll review and am sure will have some questions.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sv Garulfo via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:17 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

 

 

Mohammad, Arno,

 

In the message 

 

I described the implementation of the MasterVolt MassCombi Pro 24V/3500W/100A on Garulfo (amongst other things)

 

Hope it helps,

 

Mohammad, 

Note that we have a dessalator duo100 (24V and 220V), so we can run it directly on the batteries. The overall unit is about 900W, so we could also use the 220V side through the inverter, say if the 24V side was faulty and didn’t want to run the genset. If your watermater 150L/h is 220V only and uses 3kW, you’ll need to take that into consideration for your inverter choice. 

 

 

Best,

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 13:14, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Sv Garulfo
 



Mohammad, Arno,

In the message 

I described the implementation of the MasterVolt MassCombi Pro 24V/3500W/100A on Garulfo (amongst other things)

Hope it helps,

Mohammad, 
Note that we have a dessalator duo100 (24V and 220V), so we can run it directly on the batteries. The overall unit is about 900W, so we could also use the 220V side through the inverter, say if the 24V side was faulty and didn’t want to run the genset. If your watermater 150L/h is 220V only and uses 3kW, you’ll need to take that into consideration for your inverter choice. 


Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 13:14, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Drawings and/or Schematic of Sharki fuel tank

Marco Baldan
 

Hello Graham,


I am in the looking to purchase a Sharki. Any useful information would be most welcome.
Marco Baldan 
Albin Vega 3339 - Spray


A54 mainsail manual furler gearbox maintenance

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

Can anyone advise on the maintenance required for the manual furler box for the mainsail on the A54? Ours shows signs of corrosion around the winch handle socket. 

Another confinement project starts!

Cheers 
Thomas


GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hmm, are you suggesting that the 95mm2 cables go from that engine room junction to the batteries directly? Take a look behind your battery main switches and see if there's a pair of 95mm2 cables running towards the engine room.

I recall when replacing my Dolphin 100a and 30a, there were separate wires behind the main switches, by the batteries, that were labelled 100a and 30a. That implies that the wires for each charger went directly to the batteries vs. through that "junction" in the engine room. Note we re-used the 100a cables for our Skylla-i 80a. And as noted, we installed two pairs of 50mm2 for the new Quattro 5kw/120a. The wire sizing was for the inverter portion (5000/26.3 = 190+ amps).

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Mohammad, happy to help. 

Might I suggest asking the question on the forum, so that others may also learn from my experiences and not make the same mistakes I did.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

By boiler, I mean electric kettle. When the admiral is in the galley, appliances come on concurrently a lot.

Secondly, for my Victron Quattro 5kw, the measured idle draw when the inverter is on is 40watts. That's 40Ah per day.
Victron says 25w idle draw with inverter on, but my guess is that some of the AC items plugged into the AC sockets are drawing a decent amount, even when "idle".

The 4w you mentioned is for the Mastervolt Ultra with the inverter OFF. Note that the Quattro, with inverter OFF( via a $5 switch), draws zero watts.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Scott for the very useful information that has functioned well for 18 months. If you don’t mind, I may reach out to you when we get closer to our final design concept and pick you brains and integrate your experience into our design.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

Hey everyone,

We've lived 18 months in mostly tropical conditions with the Quattro 5kw. I have some thoughts on this.

1) You can mount the Quattro 5kw in the engine room, VERTICALLY as Victron intended. We had to mount the secondary Skylla-i 80amp charger horizontally, but that's fine as it will never run for more than 2 hours at a time, even if my 450ah lithium bank is completely empty (which it has never been). Both are placed right where Amel put my original Dolphin 100a and 30a chargers, making installation easy.
See installation photo on my earlier post at https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/47890

I have obsessively monitored charging and inverter output via the VE-Config software and the BMV-712 battery monitor because of heat concerns and possible power tapering. In my 18 months of mostly tropical live board living, that has never happened. Inverter output has never been tapered, even when motoring and running a big inverter load. Charger output has also never been tapered on either the Quattro or the Skylla, even when both are running off genset.

Lior - that said, you will need to break out the seal between the passageway and the engine room to install new cables. Don't skimp on this. This is not difficult and resealing it is not difficult either.

FYI installing the Quattro 3kw will still require that you use 2 PAIRS of 50mm2 cables, per Victron. 

2) We opted for 5kw because the admiral and crew don't always monitor their concurrent usage. If they're running the boiler (2kw), the washing machine is in heat mode (1.5kw) and someone turns on the microwave (1kw), we are quite happy to have the Quattro 5kw. This isn't often, but it has happened before. Also the surge capacity of the Quattro 5kw allows us to use the scuba compressor on inverter/battery.

3) We looked at the Mastervolt Ultra. It draws 4w when the inverter is off. It draws 7w when the "low power mode" is selected. The MV low power mode is the same functionality as the "search mode" on the Victron, with the same no-load draw. What it does is pulse the inverter on every few seconds to search for a load. I opted not to do this because it causes my analog voltage meter (in the cabinet above the galley sink) to jump back and forth. Perhaps this is fine, but I didn't want the additional mechanical wear and the clicking sound is a bit annoying. And it won't turn sense low draw loads like small AC chargers or possibly laptops.

Instead, I installed a simple $5 switch on the electrical panel which allowed me to turn on/off the inverter remotely. We turn it on when we need the big inverter and turn it off most of the time. When "off", the power consumption is zero, which is less than the Mastervolt. That saves me 40AH a day, which is the equivalent of the daily output of a 200w solar panel!
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

We have the Amel installed 800w Mastervolt inverter at the nav station. We use that when we're running laptops, ice maker, bread maker, projector, cordless drill AC chargers, etc. Because of its low capacity, it's far more efficient at low power draws. We also changed some jumpers to activate "Economic Mode" so it draws even less when power draw is <250w.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

I'm not sure what boiler/water heater you have but our standard Isotemp is only 750Watt.

Also 4 Watt per day equals to 4 Ah @ 24 volt not 40 Ah. Still a significant draw though although I'm not sure if this includes the powering of the Masterbus itself.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Craig,

Thanks for your explanation. 

I would also rather tend to change the ball bearing, just wondered because my manual says: inspect every 2000h or 5 years, left me wondering how.?
Anyway I will prepare to change the ball bearing.

My Genset is ONAN MDKBM, 
The ballbearing part no is: 510-0112

Does anybody know the specification / size of this bearing? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 




On Mon, May 18, 2020, 23:29 Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gary and Oliver,

Per my earlier post, (to Gary's 2 questions) 1. the rotor is bolted to the flywheel and is self-supporting. The end frame with its bearing is, of course, needed for support when the genset is running.  2. The bearing will slip in an out with only, perhaps, putting the new one in the freezer for awhile before inserting it.

And, Oliver, as to a procedure for checking the generator bearings for wear, I am unaware of a procedure for that and think you really want to replace it after the hours recommended in the manual (if I recall, it's 2500 hours). One really doesn't normally check bearings for wear - it is a preventive maintenance item and you really want to replace them before they wear "too much" and cause damage to other components.

This is not brain surgery - it is a simple DIY task that doesn't need a paid mechanic, unless, of course, that's how you choose to maintain your boat.

Good luck with it,
Craig


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

Be aware the battery chargers are connected to the "other side" of the main battery switches relative to the inverter. So before you start putting these cables in parallel you will need to change that (if not already). I'm not sure why Amel did this, but my guess is that you can keep a battery charger running even if all other things are disconnected.

This is why I was asking about the power-connection point in the engine room. It seems to be connected to the secondary side of the battery-switch with 95mm2 cables, more then enough to run a 4kW inverter instead of the 2kW version. I don't like changing too much the original config of the boat as it very often comes back and bites you, especially in a complex boat like the 54. So replacing the inverter seems to be limited to the inverter itself, the cable to the inverter, the circuit breaker in the gray cabinet needs to go up from 120A to 200A. and maybe the 230 V output cable needs to be bigger (2.5 mm2), I'm not sure. And of course some changes are required to the 230 switch panel to energize the washer etc. when running off the inverter. But It allows you to retain the original config for the most part.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121