Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrading all electronics

Herbert Lackner
 

hi enio,  we have an LEAB 3.200W  charger installled.  maybe some "overkill" but does its job. typical load current is below 80A when battery charge state is 70% (we do not let them go below 70%, 500AH 12V). charger can handle up to 200A.

http://www.leab.eu/fileadmin/data/files/products/charger/ABC_3200_DE-EN_2009.pdf

fair winds,

herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, Trinidad


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads

James Alton
 

Richard,
    I would be curious to know how much tension can actually be applied via turnbuckles and whether it is actually possible to get to 30 percent of ultimate.  The SWL of 1x19 is around 40 percent so if a rig is preloaded to 30 percent it seems likely to me that the SWL could be exceeded pretty easily when sailing loads are considered.  The max compression loading of the spar might be more of a concern to me.  I am not sure of what wire sizes are used on the SM but 30 percent on 3/8" wire would be around 4 tons of tension/compression per wire x 10 or around 80,000 lbs. Total just sitting at the dock..
    The Amel rig has very generous shroud angles due to the chainplates set well outboard and the spar being relatively short so why the need for lots of tension? May I ask why you feel that the Amel rig must be kept very tight and could you provide some actual numbers so that I can understand what you are calling very tight?
   Sueno was tensioned about the same when I bought her as I would have done which I would roughly estimate to be 5 percent of ultimate on the caps and correspondinly less on the shorter shrouds.  The forestay is tighter of course. Her ACMO rigging is original (29 years old) and though it will be replaced this year my surveyor did not find any cracks or failed wire.  The bulkheads and every part of the structure containing the rigging loads looked excellent and I would like to keep it that way. I have surveyed and rebuilt a lot of boats with structural damage in this area but no Amels to date.  I just do not understand the need for rigging on a cruising boat to be tensioned anywhere close to 30 percent of ultimate but I am curious about why some apparently feel that way?  Please provide some technical reasoning behind this position if you can.
Thanks,
James

SV Sueno Amel Maramu #220

Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 08-11-2016 1:19 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads


 

Give the AMEL rig/hull design it is appropriate to keep the rig very tight. The hull engineered to be very tight rig. There MUST not be slack on the Lee side when going to windward. The mast must remain in column at ALL times. No bend fore and aft or side to side. Bill's issue was a "rigger" set the head and aft stays like it was a production boat. That is not appropriate per AMEL. 
The general rule is tighten each stay keeping the mast in column until it rings when tapped with a wooden hammer handle. If goes thud take a wrench to it. 
Hope this helps. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Aug 11, 2016, at 11:47, Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... om [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,
   So you have preloaded your rig by your estimate to as much as 30 percent of it's ultimate strength? That may well be more load than the rig will see even under severe conditions.  The preloading effectively reduces the remaining safety factor of the max compression loading of the spar... Also consider that plastic deforms over time under load.  Ever noticed how an improperly blocked fiberglass hull can take a permanent set when too much load is concentrated at one point of the hull for a long period of time?  Yes, the structure is strong but push or pull hard enough for long periods and deformation will occur.  On a cruisng boat I tune to keep the spar to remain straight in all conditions (verified by loading up the rig and sighting the sail track) but tight enough that the lee rigging is not excessively slack.  If the boat is to be at rest for an extended period I reduce rigging tension. Hopefully o thers will comment.
Best,
James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 08-11-2016 10:57 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads


 

Hey everyone - 


I know this topic has been addressed before. I have recently tuned my rig and it was crazy to me to the amount of work that was involved. This traces back to a previous post I had made about the forestay being wobbly. The problem (which I never thought) was the rig. Needed to be tightened (a lot). The pin actually came loose while furling the jib and that was the only problem. Now, I had my rig professionally serviced and tuned and as we all know this is a controversial topic among "professional" riggers without Amel experience. So I did the job myself with the help from another owner. My rig is so tight now you could play music off it. Actually when you tap the backstay it sounds like George Lucus used this to replicate the blaster sounds from Starwars. HAHA. Anyways, I called my rigger and he was very interested to come take a look. He was shocked... I mean literally shocked. Told me it goes against everything he has ever learned about rigging boats. His gauges were not even able to read the loads of the stays. Told me that other boats would have collapsed on themselves under the loads but at the same time agreed to the tensions. His question and the reason I am writing this is to find out if anyone has numbers for him. I guess the average numbers are 15-30% of the break load... (???) Can anyone chime in on this topic? Provide some numbers I can write down and relay? Any stories about tuning their rigs? Hope all is well and fair winds!


Bill Maffei 

SM #195

It's all Good


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Peter Buckley <carhartt@...>
 

Hi Paul,
When we purchased our Mango in Noumea and sailed home to Australia Pantaenius covered our yacht and has done so ever since.
They are great to deal with in Australia and only required an updated survey for the file.
Good luck
Peter

Gradiva
Mango #70
Raymond Island
Australia


-- 
Peter Buckley

83 Twelfth Avenue
Raymond Island VIC 3880

Phone: 0428 427 786

Email: carhartt@...


From: "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Reply-To: <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 11 Aug 2016 03:42:34 -0700
To: <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrading all electronics

rossienio@...
 

Hi Herbert thanks for your experience and your information.I need to rreplace my Sterling but I have no idea about B.C. Amel-friendly. Could you give me some advice about Battery chargers that I must buy?  Which is the model have you installed and how many Ampers? Fair winds. Enio


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Give the AMEL rig/hull design it is appropriate to keep the rig very tight. The hull engineered to be very tight rig. There MUST not be slack on the Lee side when going to windward. The mast must remain in column at ALL times. No bend fore and aft or side to side. Bill's issue was a "rigger" set the head and aft stays like it was a production boat. That is not appropriate per AMEL. 
The general rule is tighten each stay keeping the mast in column until it rings when tapped with a wooden hammer handle. If goes thud take a wrench to it. 
Hope this helps. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Aug 11, 2016, at 11:47, Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,
   So you have preloaded your rig by your estimate to as much as 30 percent of it's ultimate strength? That may well be more load than the rig will see even under severe conditions.  The preloading effectively reduces the remaining safety factor of the max compression loading of the spar... Also consider that plastic deforms over time under load.  Ever noticed how an improperly blocked fiberglass hull can take a permanent set when too much load is concentrated at one point of the hull for a long period of time?  Yes, the structure is strong but push or pull hard enough for long periods and deformation will occur.  On a cruisng boat I tune to keep the spar to remain straight in all conditions (verified by loading up the rig and sighting the sail track) but tight enough that the lee rigging is not excessively slack.  If the boat is to be at rest for an extended period I reduce rigging tension. Hopefully others will comment.
Best,
James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 08-11-2016 10:57 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads


 

Hey everyone - 


I know this topic has been addressed before. I have recently tuned my rig and it was crazy to me to the amount of work that was involved. This traces back to a previous post I had made about the forestay being wobbly. The problem (which I never thought) was the rig. Needed to be tightened (a lot). The pin actually came loose while furling the jib and that was the only problem. Now, I had my rig professionally serviced and tuned and as we all know this is a controversial topic among "professional" riggers without Amel experience. So I did the job myself with the help from another owner. My rig is so tight now you could play music off it. Actually when you tap the backstay it sounds like George Lucus used this to replicate the blaster sounds from Starwars. HAHA. Anyways, I called my rigger and he was very interested to come take a look. He was shocked... I mean literally shocked. Told me it goes against everything he has ever learned about rigging boats. His gauges were not even able to read the loads of the stays. Told me that other boats would have collapsed on themselves under the loads but at the same time agreed to the tensions. His question and the reason I am writing this is to find out if anyone has numbers for him. I guess the average numbers are 15-30% of the break load... (???) Can anyone chime in on this topic? Provide some numbers I can write down and relay? Any stories about tuning their rigs? Hope all is well and fair winds!


Bill Maffei 

SM #195

It's all Good


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads

James Alton
 

Bill,
   So you have preloaded your rig by your estimate to as much as 30 percent of it's ultimate strength? That may well be more load than the rig will see even under severe conditions.  The preloading effectively reduces the remaining safety factor of the max compression loading of the spar... Also consider that plastic deforms over time under load.  Ever noticed how an improperly blocked fiberglass hull can take a permanent set when too much load is concentrated at one point of the hull for a long period of time?  Yes, the structure is strong but push or pull hard enough for long periods and deformation will occur.  On a cruisng boat I tune to keep the spar to remain straight in all conditions (verified by loading up the rig and sighting the sail track) but tight enough that the lee rigging is not excessively slack.  If the boat is to be at rest for an extended period I reduce rigging tension. Hopefully others will comment.
Best,
James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 08-11-2016 10:57 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu rigging loads


 

Hey everyone - 


I know this topic has been addressed before. I have recently tuned my rig and it was crazy to me to the amount of work that was involved. This traces back to a previous post I had made about the forestay being wobbly. The problem (which I never thought) was the rig. Needed to be tightened (a lot). The pin actually came loose while furling the jib and that was the only problem. Now, I had my rig professionally serviced and tuned and as we all know this is a controversial topic among "professional" riggers without Amel experience. So I did the job myself with the help from another owner. My rig is so tight now you could play music off it. Actually when you tap the backstay it sounds like George Lucus used this to replicate the blaster sounds from Starwars. HAHA. Anyways, I called my rigger and he was very interested to come take a look. He was shocked... I mean literally shocked. Told me it goes against everything he has ever learned about rigging boats. His gauges were not even able to read the loads of the stays. Told me that other boats would have collapsed on themselves under the loads but at the same time agreed to the tensions. His question and the reason I am writing this is to find out if anyone has numbers for him. I guess the average numbers are 15-30% of the break load... (???) Can anyone chime in on this topic? Provide some numbers I can write down and relay? Any stories about tuning their rigs? Hope all is well and fair winds!


Bill Maffei 

SM #195

It's all Good


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

We have used them for years on several Amels. Crossed the Atlantic four times with their coverage lived in Caribbean no issues fair price. . Marinas never question when you have their coverage. 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On Aug 11, 2016, at 09:56, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Paul 
go asking a proposal at Pantaenius, Hamburg. I'm since 15 years with them. 
kr 
Hanspeter
SM16, Tamango 2
PS:
i do not have any business relations with them. It is only my personal experiance with this company and I'm was in good hands

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 11.08.2016 um 13:42 schrieb osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Stephen Davis
 

We use Pantaenius and Scott Stusek, and have been very happy with the service provided. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Grenada

On Aug 11, 2016, at 10:06, 'Stusek, Scott (Pantaenius)' sstusek@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Pantaenius America, Annapolis office.  www.pantaenius.us  click on get a quote, Choose Annapolis, fill out the form and submit. I will look at it personally same day.

Scott Stusek

Pantaenius America, ltd

443-569-7995

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:57 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

 

 

Hi Paul 

go asking a proposal at Pantaenius, Hamburg. I'm since 15 years with them. 

kr 

Hanspeter

SM16, Tamango 2

PS:

i do not have any business relations with them. It is only my personal experiance with this company and I'm was in good hands

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 11.08.2016 um 13:42 schrieb osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Stusek, Scott (Pantaenius) <sstusek@...>
 

Pantaenius America, Annapolis office.  www.pantaenius.us  click on get a quote, Choose Annapolis, fill out the form and submit. I will look at it personally same day.

Scott Stusek

Pantaenius America, ltd

443-569-7995

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:57 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

 

 

Hi Paul 

go asking a proposal at Pantaenius, Hamburg. I'm since 15 years with them. 

kr 

Hanspeter

SM16, Tamango 2

PS:

i do not have any business relations with them. It is only my personal experiance with this company and I'm was in good hands

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 11.08.2016 um 13:42 schrieb osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Super Maramu rigging loads

william_maffei@...
 

Hey everyone - 


I know this topic has been addressed before. I have recently tuned my rig and it was crazy to me to the amount of work that was involved. This traces back to a previous post I had made about the forestay being wobbly. The problem (which I never thought) was the rig. Needed to be tightened (a lot). The pin actually came loose while furling the jib and that was the only problem. Now, I had my rig professionally serviced and tuned and as we all know this is a controversial topic among "professional" riggers without Amel experience. So I did the job myself with the help from another owner. My rig is so tight now you could play music off it. Actually when you tap the backstay it sounds like George Lucus used this to replicate the blaster sounds from Starwars. HAHA. Anyways, I called my rigger and he was very interested to come take a look. He was shocked... I mean literally shocked. Told me it goes against everything he has ever learned about rigging boats. His gauges were not even able to read the loads of the stays. Told me that other boats would have collapsed on themselves under the loads but at the same time agreed to the tensions. His question and the reason I am writing this is to find out if anyone has numbers for him. I guess the average numbers are 15-30% of the break load... (???) Can anyone chime in on this topic? Provide some numbers I can write down and relay? Any stories about tuning their rigs? Hope all is well and fair winds!


Bill Maffei 

SM #195

It's all Good


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Paul 
go asking a proposal at Pantaenius, Hamburg. I'm since 15 years with them. 
kr 
Hanspeter
SM16, Tamango 2
PS:
i do not have any business relations with them. It is only my personal experiance with this company and I'm was in good hands

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 11.08.2016 um 13:42 schrieb osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrading all electronics

James Alton
 

Herbert,

   Thanks for the detailed information on things to check with the bonding system.  My boat is a later Maramu but perhaps the system is fairly similar?   Does the aforementioned connection to the keel occur at a keel bolt?  I did not see a strap during the water tank inspection so perhaps it is in the sump?  If so then definitely something to look forward to!  (grin)  Do you normally use more copper for the repair or is there a better solution?

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Aug 11, 2016, at 3:25 AM, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

hi enio,

maybe not relevant to your current problem, but eventually some helpful thoughts.

I spent some time in finding grounding issues :-) on different santorins (including our own). what I found out where to put attention to:

fischer panda is normally not isolated but there is an upgrade kit available by fischer panda (relais plus ready made cabling) that makes the fischer panda genset "amel-friendly".  I installed it on KALI MERA and it works fine. without the kit you will have battery-minus connected to seawater when running the genset.

you should check the cabling at the shaft alternator, there is a strong possibility that the isolation of the cables break and a connection from ground to the housing occurs, causing a ground leak (battery connection to bonding system, positive or negative)

any changes in the alternator-system (new alternator or new shaft alternator, additional alternator...) can cause ground prob lems because most alternators are not isolated and therefore should not be used on an amel. 

and if an SSB has been installed on a santorin that has not dedicated SSB grounding then this is also a typical thing to pay some attention to when looking for ground leaks (e.g. direct connection of grounding to the rudder...).

and (for sure not relevant to your actual problem but worth to mention): the original bonding - copper ground strap to the keel will break after about 10 -15 years, so should be checked also... :-) 

best regards

herbert
SN120, KALI MERA, Trinidad



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Paul,

Talk to Allianz…

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera SM007



On 11 Aug 2016, at 13:56, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thank's Bill, but already offer that, but they did not accept

Paul SY Kerpa SM#259

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (52)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank's Bill, but already offer that, but they did not accept
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Paul,

I had that issue and solved it by offering a rigging inspection report. The insurance company waived the 10 years with the report. All boats and all rigging is not equal.

Bill
BeBe

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:42 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Insurance

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!

just found out that our insurance company would not insure our boat for sailing out of Europe as the standing rig is older than 10 years old. I have no time to change now. Has anyone of you any suggestion on good insurance companies for a European boat sailing outside Europe?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: One wire to many?

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello not yet, some higher priority  work right now, will let you now when ready
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: One wire to many?

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello Paul and Bill,

Did the splice suggested by Bill work?  I have a similar-looking pump, a Jabsco Sensor-Max variable speed control with a solid state pressure sensor.  People installed these pumps to be able to remove the water pressure accumulator;  our boat has had this pump since August 2012 or before and I made sure to buy a spare before these were discontinued in 2015.

Anyway, I have the same "one wire too many" issue and have been afraid of splicing into the wire going from the Jabsco switch to the Jabsco motor... I figure the sensor probably sends either a pulsed signal or variable voltage to the motor, as it does, in fact, run at different speeds depending on the number of water taps open or how much you open them, and I am not sure what either of those cases would do to the little light on the 24V panel... maybe someone else has tried this before?

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K n. 350 (2002)
At anchor, Ajaccio (Corsica)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrading all electronics

Herbert Lackner
 

hi enio,

maybe not relevant to your current problem, but eventually some helpful thoughts.

I spent some time in finding grounding issues :-) on different santorins (including our own). what I found out where to put attention to:

fischer panda is normally not isolated but there is an upgrade kit available by fischer panda (relais plus ready made cabling) that makes the fischer panda genset "amel-friendly".  I installed it on KALI MERA and it works fine. without the kit you will have battery-minus connected to seawater when running the genset.

you should check the cabling at the shaft alternator, there is a strong possibility that the isolation of the cables break and a connection from ground to the housing occurs, causing a ground leak (battery connection to bonding system, positive or negative)

any changes in the alternator-system (new alternator or new shaft alternator, additional alternator...) can cause ground problems because most alternators are not isolated and therefore should not be used on an amel.

and if an SSB has been installed on a santorin that has not dedicated SSB grounding then this is also a typical thing to pay some attention to when looking for ground leaks (e.g. direct connection of grounding to the rudder...).

and (for sure not relevant to your actual problem but worth to mention): the original bonding - copper ground strap to the keel will break after about 10 -15 years, so should be checked also... :-)

best regards

herbert
SN120, KALI MERA, Trinidad


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] strong

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I believe that Rick's gmail account has been hijacked.

I would not click on the link.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:36 PM, rickgrimes1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Can not show full mail body.
You will view it by pressing here

Yahoogroups error msgID: 795031 (Wed Aug 10 20:36:21 2016)