Date   

Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Oliver,
Yes, that does seem to be a strange statement in the manual to "inspect every 2000h or 5 years". I am at a loss to know what or how you would inspect it, unless perhaps, it was visibly corroded or something like that. 
Sorry but I don't know the spec/size for the bearing on your Onan genset.
Cheers, Craig


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thank you Thomas. I’ll review and am sure will have some questions.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sv Garulfo via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:17 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

 

 

Mohammad, Arno,

 

In the message 

 

I described the implementation of the MasterVolt MassCombi Pro 24V/3500W/100A on Garulfo (amongst other things)

 

Hope it helps,

 

Mohammad, 

Note that we have a dessalator duo100 (24V and 220V), so we can run it directly on the batteries. The overall unit is about 900W, so we could also use the 220V side through the inverter, say if the 24V side was faulty and didn’t want to run the genset. If your watermater 150L/h is 220V only and uses 3kW, you’ll need to take that into consideration for your inverter choice. 

 

 

Best,

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 13:14, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Sv Garulfo
 



Mohammad, Arno,

In the message 

I described the implementation of the MasterVolt MassCombi Pro 24V/3500W/100A on Garulfo (amongst other things)

Hope it helps,

Mohammad, 
Note that we have a dessalator duo100 (24V and 220V), so we can run it directly on the batteries. The overall unit is about 900W, so we could also use the 220V side through the inverter, say if the 24V side was faulty and didn’t want to run the genset. If your watermater 150L/h is 220V only and uses 3kW, you’ll need to take that into consideration for your inverter choice. 


Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 13:14, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

On my A54 the cables for the chargers (Mastervolt 100 A and 40 A) are routed individually to the batteries. They are actually connected on the primary side of the big red switches (so connected to the battery side). Pretty sure they did this to make sure the charger "knows" the exact battery voltage and to enable charging with the red switches off (when the boat is decommissioned for example) . The junction in the engine room is only supplying the gray fuse box as far as I can see. This is also where the inverter gets it power from (via a circuit breaker). I did not investigate where this 95mm2 feed cable is exactly going to. That is not so easy, hence my question on this forum. At the back of the red switches there is a plethora of cables going in all directions, the markings are not easy to read. There are also two studs distributing the power as well.

Regards,
Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Drawings and/or Schematic of Sharki fuel tank

Marco Baldan
 

Hello Graham,


I am in the looking to purchase a Sharki. Any useful information would be most welcome.
Marco Baldan 
Albin Vega 3339 - Spray


A54 mainsail manual furler gearbox maintenance

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

Can anyone advise on the maintenance required for the manual furler box for the mainsail on the A54? Ours shows signs of corrosion around the winch handle socket. 

Another confinement project starts!

Cheers 
Thomas


GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hmm, are you suggesting that the 95mm2 cables go from that engine room junction to the batteries directly? Take a look behind your battery main switches and see if there's a pair of 95mm2 cables running towards the engine room.

I recall when replacing my Dolphin 100a and 30a, there were separate wires behind the main switches, by the batteries, that were labelled 100a and 30a. That implies that the wires for each charger went directly to the batteries vs. through that "junction" in the engine room. Note we re-used the 100a cables for our Skylla-i 80a. And as noted, we installed two pairs of 50mm2 for the new Quattro 5kw/120a. The wire sizing was for the inverter portion (5000/26.3 = 190+ amps).

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Mohammad, happy to help. 

Might I suggest asking the question on the forum, so that others may also learn from my experiences and not make the same mistakes I did.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

By boiler, I mean electric kettle. When the admiral is in the galley, appliances come on concurrently a lot.

Secondly, for my Victron Quattro 5kw, the measured idle draw when the inverter is on is 40watts. That's 40Ah per day.
Victron says 25w idle draw with inverter on, but my guess is that some of the AC items plugged into the AC sockets are drawing a decent amount, even when "idle".

The 4w you mentioned is for the Mastervolt Ultra with the inverter OFF. Note that the Quattro, with inverter OFF( via a $5 switch), draws zero watts.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Scott for the very useful information that has functioned well for 18 months. If you don’t mind, I may reach out to you when we get closer to our final design concept and pick you brains and integrate your experience into our design.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

Hey everyone,

We've lived 18 months in mostly tropical conditions with the Quattro 5kw. I have some thoughts on this.

1) You can mount the Quattro 5kw in the engine room, VERTICALLY as Victron intended. We had to mount the secondary Skylla-i 80amp charger horizontally, but that's fine as it will never run for more than 2 hours at a time, even if my 450ah lithium bank is completely empty (which it has never been). Both are placed right where Amel put my original Dolphin 100a and 30a chargers, making installation easy.
See installation photo on my earlier post at https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/47890

I have obsessively monitored charging and inverter output via the VE-Config software and the BMV-712 battery monitor because of heat concerns and possible power tapering. In my 18 months of mostly tropical live board living, that has never happened. Inverter output has never been tapered, even when motoring and running a big inverter load. Charger output has also never been tapered on either the Quattro or the Skylla, even when both are running off genset.

Lior - that said, you will need to break out the seal between the passageway and the engine room to install new cables. Don't skimp on this. This is not difficult and resealing it is not difficult either.

FYI installing the Quattro 3kw will still require that you use 2 PAIRS of 50mm2 cables, per Victron. 

2) We opted for 5kw because the admiral and crew don't always monitor their concurrent usage. If they're running the boiler (2kw), the washing machine is in heat mode (1.5kw) and someone turns on the microwave (1kw), we are quite happy to have the Quattro 5kw. This isn't often, but it has happened before. Also the surge capacity of the Quattro 5kw allows us to use the scuba compressor on inverter/battery.

3) We looked at the Mastervolt Ultra. It draws 4w when the inverter is off. It draws 7w when the "low power mode" is selected. The MV low power mode is the same functionality as the "search mode" on the Victron, with the same no-load draw. What it does is pulse the inverter on every few seconds to search for a load. I opted not to do this because it causes my analog voltage meter (in the cabinet above the galley sink) to jump back and forth. Perhaps this is fine, but I didn't want the additional mechanical wear and the clicking sound is a bit annoying. And it won't turn sense low draw loads like small AC chargers or possibly laptops.

Instead, I installed a simple $5 switch on the electrical panel which allowed me to turn on/off the inverter remotely. We turn it on when we need the big inverter and turn it off most of the time. When "off", the power consumption is zero, which is less than the Mastervolt. That saves me 40AH a day, which is the equivalent of the daily output of a 200w solar panel!
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

We have the Amel installed 800w Mastervolt inverter at the nav station. We use that when we're running laptops, ice maker, bread maker, projector, cordless drill AC chargers, etc. Because of its low capacity, it's far more efficient at low power draws. We also changed some jumpers to activate "Economic Mode" so it draws even less when power draw is <250w.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

I'm not sure what boiler/water heater you have but our standard Isotemp is only 750Watt.

Also 4 Watt per day equals to 4 Ah @ 24 volt not 40 Ah. Still a significant draw though although I'm not sure if this includes the powering of the Masterbus itself.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Craig,

Thanks for your explanation. 

I would also rather tend to change the ball bearing, just wondered because my manual says: inspect every 2000h or 5 years, left me wondering how.?
Anyway I will prepare to change the ball bearing.

My Genset is ONAN MDKBM, 
The ballbearing part no is: 510-0112

Does anybody know the specification / size of this bearing? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 




On Mon, May 18, 2020, 23:29 Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gary and Oliver,

Per my earlier post, (to Gary's 2 questions) 1. the rotor is bolted to the flywheel and is self-supporting. The end frame with its bearing is, of course, needed for support when the genset is running.  2. The bearing will slip in an out with only, perhaps, putting the new one in the freezer for awhile before inserting it.

And, Oliver, as to a procedure for checking the generator bearings for wear, I am unaware of a procedure for that and think you really want to replace it after the hours recommended in the manual (if I recall, it's 2500 hours). One really doesn't normally check bearings for wear - it is a preventive maintenance item and you really want to replace them before they wear "too much" and cause damage to other components.

This is not brain surgery - it is a simple DIY task that doesn't need a paid mechanic, unless, of course, that's how you choose to maintain your boat.

Good luck with it,
Craig


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

Be aware the battery chargers are connected to the "other side" of the main battery switches relative to the inverter. So before you start putting these cables in parallel you will need to change that (if not already). I'm not sure why Amel did this, but my guess is that you can keep a battery charger running even if all other things are disconnected.

This is why I was asking about the power-connection point in the engine room. It seems to be connected to the secondary side of the battery-switch with 95mm2 cables, more then enough to run a 4kW inverter instead of the 2kW version. I don't like changing too much the original config of the boat as it very often comes back and bites you, especially in a complex boat like the 54. So replacing the inverter seems to be limited to the inverter itself, the cable to the inverter, the circuit breaker in the gray cabinet needs to go up from 120A to 200A. and maybe the 230 V output cable needs to be bigger (2.5 mm2), I'm not sure. And of course some changes are required to the 230 switch panel to energize the washer etc. when running off the inverter. But It allows you to retain the original config for the most part.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hey everyone,

We've lived 18 months in mostly tropical conditions with the Quattro 5kw. I have some thoughts on this.

1) You can mount the Quattro 5kw in the engine room, VERTICALLY as Victron intended. We had to mount the secondary Skylla-i 80amp charger horizontally, but that's fine as it will never run for more than 2 hours at a time, even if my 450ah lithium bank is completely empty (which it has never been). Both are placed right where Amel put my original Dolphin 100a and 30a chargers, making installation easy.
See installation photo on my earlier post at https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/47890

I have obsessively monitored charging and inverter output via the VE-Config software and the BMV-712 battery monitor because of heat concerns and possible power tapering. In my 18 months of mostly tropical live board living, that has never happened. Inverter output has never been tapered, even when motoring and running a big inverter load. Charger output has also never been tapered on either the Quattro or the Skylla, even when both are running off genset.

Lior - that said, you will need to break out the seal between the passageway and the engine room to install new cables. Don't skimp on this. This is not difficult and resealing it is not difficult either.

FYI installing the Quattro 3kw will still require that you use 2 PAIRS of 50mm2 cables, per Victron. 

2) We opted for 5kw because the admiral and crew don't always monitor their concurrent usage. If they're running the boiler (2kw), the washing machine is in heat mode (1.5kw) and someone turns on the microwave (1kw), we are quite happy to have the Quattro 5kw. This isn't often, but it has happened before. Also the surge capacity of the Quattro 5kw allows us to use the scuba compressor on inverter/battery.

3) We looked at the Mastervolt Ultra. It draws 4w when the inverter is off. It draws 7w when the "low power mode" is selected. The MV low power mode is the same functionality as the "search mode" on the Victron, with the same no-load draw. What it does is pulse the inverter on every few seconds to search for a load. I opted not to do this because it causes my analog voltage meter (in the cabinet above the galley sink) to jump back and forth. Perhaps this is fine, but I didn't want the additional mechanical wear and the clicking sound is a bit annoying. And it won't turn sense low draw loads like small AC chargers or possibly laptops.

Instead, I installed a simple $5 switch on the electrical panel which allowed me to turn on/off the inverter remotely. We turn it on when we need the big inverter and turn it off most of the time. When "off", the power consumption is zero, which is less than the Mastervolt. That saves me 40AH a day, which is the equivalent of the daily output of a 200w solar panel!
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

We have the Amel installed 800w Mastervolt inverter at the nav station. We use that when we're running laptops, ice maker, bread maker, projector, cordless drill AC chargers, etc. Because of its low capacity, it's far more efficient at low power draws. We also changed some jumpers to activate "Economic Mode" so it draws even less when power draw is <250w.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: genoa furler cover MEJ1 removal

 

Maybe this helps...it is a page from my Amel Book. You did not state your hull number, but if it is an early 54 the cover is sealed with sealant and it may be a little difficult to remove:
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 1:07 PM Roque <ediroque@...> wrote:
Great!

Maybe you could take this opportunity to install grease ports

Em qua., 20 de mai. de 2020 às 14:59, Jeroen jeltes <j.jeltes@...> escreveu:
i managed to get it removed finally, and apparently the cover is mounted in a recess.


Re: European SM 240V looking to plug in 240V US Marina

Arno Luijten
 

Bill,
The Victron isolation transformers are classic transformers, basically a lot of iron and copper. The model "3600 Watt Auto 115/230 V" is capable of converting 115 Volt into 230 V. That is one way to solve the US-EUR problem (apart from the 50/60 Hz) with the added advantage you can use both voltages more or less transparent at the input side.
However to get 16 Amps at the output you will need 32 Amps at the input. If you use the "double 115V" system to produce 230 you would be able to supply 230V32A at the output but that would require a different model transformer that cannot do auto-switching. In the latter case you would always require a 230-240 volt outlet in a USA marina. I'm not sure how wide-spread that is in the States.

On thing about classic transformers, these things tend to produce an annoying 50/60Hz humming noise that makes you need to be careful where to put it.

Myself I've installed the Mastervolt GI7 Isolation transformer. This makes virtually no noise as it uses high frequency transforming. The weight is much less as well.  They did miss a huge point designing the thing though. As they are using high frequency technology to galvanic separate the power, 95% of the parts were already included to change the the frequency as well, meaning you could have converted to 50Hz even when on a 60Hz outlet. Big omission as far as I'm concerned.

The other problem all of these isolation transformers have is they tend to increase the voltage a little bit to compensate for high loads (like the 1:1.05 ratio mentioned above). Again a bad idea. Here in St. Maarten the pontoon voltage is high already (sometimes up to 245 Volt) and behind the transformer I can see 255 Volt occasionally, 25 volts more then I would like to see. For the Mastervolt GI series even more dumb as they could have made the system adaptive because of the high frequency conversion. Trying to explain the Marina they need to look into their shorepower is a huge challenge with little chance on success.
The reason I installed the isolation transformer is because the crappy shorepower was affecting the cast-iron keel despite a perfectly working earth-bonding system in the boat. This is now resolved.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: genoa furler cover MEJ1 removal

Roque
 

Great!

Maybe you could take this opportunity to install grease ports

Em qua., 20 de mai. de 2020 às 14:59, Jeroen jeltes <j.jeltes@...> escreveu:

i managed to get it removed finally, and apparently the cover is mounted in a recess.


Re: genoa furler cover MEJ1 removal

Jeroen jeltes
 

i managed to get it removed finally, and apparently the cover is mounted in a recess.


Re: Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arno;

 

I think all of your questions and concerns are valid. We are going through the same questions as we plan our upgrade. You have to first really sit down and decide exactly what your optimum setup would be. You want to be sure that you do not go down a design path with certain assumptions and design criteria and find out at the tail end that you also wanted “X” that the current design cannot provide.

 

We are also considering Victron, but have the same concerns of size, weight, derating with increased temperature, compatibility with existing MasterVolt, etc. One suggestion would be to look at MasterVolt Mass Combi Ultra. Here’s the link https://www.mastervolt.com/products/combis-inverter-charger/

 

They are light (33.7 lb), compact, provide full capacity in higher temperatures, low power consumption at idle (4W),  have an integrated solar charge regulator, two AC inputs for shore power and generator and multiple units can be ganged up to increase power output. In our case, we are thinking about going with a single unit (3.5 KW) and adding another when we go to full Lithiums for 7KW of inversion. Eventually eliminating the 100A and 40 A charges and having one or both as spares.

 

The issue of supplying it with the DC power needed will depend on the existing equipment and wiring in the engine room, so running new wires can be avoided. We are also trying to avoid moving the inverters out of the engine room. We currently have the 2500W MasterVolt inverter, 100A Charger and 40A Charger. So we have wiring sufficient for about 250A of 24 volts coming to the engine room. This would theoretically be sufficient for about 6000W of inversion. This is most likely sufficient to power all systems on board, including our 150l/hr water maker that needs about 3KW. We just have to manage concurrent system usage to stay in a safe range of available power.

 

It is great to have all of these new options, however, we just have to sort through them and have an overall design that meets our requirements. As always, with more options come more decisions.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:50 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

Hi,

This topic is somewhat frequent as mane Amels have a fairly limited inverter. Our Amel 54 is still stock and has the Mass Sine 2500 from Mastervolt that is actually only 2000 Watt continuously. So like may others I've been looking at alternatives.

The Victron 5kW is big, really big. It also has some small print where it states is will reduce it's output above 30 Deg. ambient temperature. I'm not saying the Vircron is not a good piece of kit, far from it, but it does have some drawbacks. Also the idle power consumption is significant.
I'm wondering why I would need 5kW. There is a case for it if you are using induction hobs for cooking, but I have no plans to convert in the foreseeable future.
I think the great improvement could be in the ability to use the washing machine, diswasher, maybe one of the A/C's
For this the inverter does not need to be more then 3.0-3.5kW continuously.
The other advantage is that a 5 kW inverter requires immense cables to the batteries, making it a big problem installing it in the Engine room, justifying the installation in the battery compartment. This again would require to move to Lithium to save battery-space... On and on it goes. So at present I'm looking into a few Mastervolt Mass-series boxes, also because this would integrate with all the other Mastervolt stuff from the later A54's

This brings me to the following question. Has anyone looked into the 24 Volt connection point in the engine room of a A54 next to the fusebox (see picture).
I notice there are feed cables of 95mm2 allowing for quite some power draw. Does anyone know where exactly these cables are connected on the supply side? Before or behind the main switches? As far as I can see this power-point is the main feed point for the fuse-box next to it is that correct?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Self Insurance

Courtney Gorman
 

I would be interested in either for next year as I have already gotten and paid for my policy this year
thanks
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, May 20, 2020 11:02 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance

Thank you all for your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, and doubts.

Bill R has been in touch with Gary Golden at Manifest Marine. He is looking into a group policy, but at least initially doesn't think it would be enough of a market to interest commercial carriers.

Sooo, while it's not a foregone conclusion, we may have to go the self-insurance route.
That would be an experiment unless we can find someone with expertise to help us set it up.  We may find ourselves with few or no options sooner rather than later so I think it's worth pursuing if there is enough interest.

Please respond to this thread and indicate if you are seriously interested in participating in
 1)A commercial group Policy, and
 2)An AYOG self-insured plan

If there are at least 200 owners interested, I will continue to work on it.  If there is enough interest, we will take this private and ask you to complete a survey that Brent is working on.

Thanks for your prompt replies.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On May 19, 2020 3:34 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Though I think it would be a great idea to start the "Amel Group Insurance Company" AGIC, it's a lot more than just opening a bank account and filling it with our $6000 each month.  Insurance companies are Bankers first, and Offer insurance second.  Once you get the first $1.2M in the bank it has to be invested, and everyone will have different ideas of where to invest it.  Well hedged is probably best, but these days I have been a very unsuccessful investor!  

On the questionnaire - Ask about Auto, Motorcycle, Airplane Insurance - Any tickets past 10 years, and any claims?  People are the same on the water as they are on land or in the air.  Careful drivers on land and in the air, will be careful captains on the water.   

I also think that the owners that will be insured by AGIC should be required to have three owners confirm that the owner is worthy of getting insurance through AGIC.  The first 200 owners insured also need to be well vetted be part of the group.  All you need is a few bad actors to bankrupt an insurance company.  Everyone has different ideas of what the appropriate level of experience should be required to sail an Amel off shore.  What would be the level of instruction/experience required for new owners, and who would be capable of imparting that knowledge and signing off for a new owner to be insured.  Bill's class would be a good one, but should Bill alone be able to sign off for a new member?  No one person should.  

There's a lot of benefits we could gain by starting this venture.  For one, it would make the AMEL brand more valuable if the insurance was transferrable to a new owner given a mandatory level of experience, no claims (any insurance), and an AMEL offshore sailing course.  Just like a check ride by the FAA.  

To do this right we need a village, and I think the AMEL Owners are the right village.  If we start now, we could draft a document and get this started by the end of the year.

First get interest level.  200 boats would probably be a good start.
Draft a Document how the company would operate.
  1.  Investments
  2.  Personal requirements to be insured
  3.  What/Where will the insurance cover
  4.  How/who will manage the claims
  5.  Define a bad risk owner, and how will a bad risk owner be deleted from the insurance group.
  6.  Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance.  Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
  7.  Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas.  Just moving with traffic.  Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.



So the first think would be to find out who is interested in the insurance, and each should answer the following questions.  If there is interest we need to get everyone into a spreadsheet and when we get to 200 people we can move forward to the next step.
HERE IS MINE
1.  Current Insurance Company:  JACKLINE POLICY
2.  Cost yearly: $5700
3.  Coverage amount: $280K
4.  Coverage location: Worldwide except weather zones
5.  3rd party Liability: $1M
6.  Solo Sailor: ?
7.  Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance.  Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
8.  Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas.  Just moving with traffic.  Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.
9.  ??  Any other questions we need to ask to get the first 220 or more first responders?  Some people will not meet the standards of the majority, so we will need to get more than the number required for critical mass.  Even I may not meet the standards of some.  
 
Done rambling....

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K #262
Currently in Phuket Thailand