Date   

Re: Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Nick. I took the cover  off the brush mechanism. It is an oily mess in there with a gunge of catbon dust mixed in

 I dont know yet  if the gearbox has oil in it. If so I suspect the seal between the motor and the gearbox has failed and allowed oil to penetrate the motor. Brushes dont respond well to being covered in oil,it leads to short circuits.

So far I am working with the motor in place. I have yet to learn if it can be removed from the winch without dismatling the whole mecanism. I live in hope.

Thanks for your input.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 

On 30 November 2020 at 21:29 "ngtnewington Newington via groups.io" <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, 
The motor looks pretty much the same as the motor for the windlass on my 54. 
On my windlass I had a similar problem as you describe. The motor also got hot.
I removed it and stripped it down. It was clogged with carbon dust from the brushes. 
I then put it back and it runs perfectly.
I suggest you see if the motor itself gets hot,  if so it could be the same problem.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 Leros

 

On 30 Nov 2020, at 01:22, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill. It is drawing about 90 amps turning with no load so I suspect a friction problem but I will chase the control option first.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 30 November 2020 at 12:28 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 


 


 


Re: Port sheet winch

ngtnewington Newington
 

Danny, 
If you drop the motor and gear box be careful to keep it level as oil from the gear box can leak into the motor and then out and make a mess....been there!!
Nick
S/Y Amelia 
54-019


On 30 Nov 2020, at 08:29, ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, 
The motor looks pretty much the same as the motor for the windlass on my 54. 
On my windlass I had a similar problem as you describe. The motor also got hot.
I removed it and stripped it down. It was clogged with carbon dust from the brushes. 
I then put it back and it runs perfectly.
I suggest you see if the motor itself gets hot,  if so it could be the same problem.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 Leros


On 30 Nov 2020, at 01:22, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Thanks Bill. It is drawing about 90 amps turning with no load so I suspect a friction problem but I will chase the control option first.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 30 November 2020 at 12:28 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 


Re: Port sheet winch

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Danny, 
The motor looks pretty much the same as the motor for the windlass on my 54. 
On my windlass I had a similar problem as you describe. The motor also got hot.
I removed it and stripped it down. It was clogged with carbon dust from the brushes. 
I then put it back and it runs perfectly.
I suggest you see if the motor itself gets hot,  if so it could be the same problem.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019 Leros


On 30 Nov 2020, at 01:22, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Thanks Bill. It is drawing about 90 amps turning with no load so I suspect a friction problem but I will chase the control option first.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 30 November 2020 at 12:28 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 


Re: Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Bill. It is drawing about 90 amps turning with no load so I suspect a friction problem but I will chase the control option first.

Kind Regards

Danny

On 30 November 2020 at 12:28 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 


Re: Port sheet winch

 

Danny,

These are so reliable that there is very little experience in troubleshooting and repair. I have no experience and few owners have very little.

I don't know how to help, other than to say most issues have been control issues and not motor and gearbox. Please let me know when you find a solution. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 4:54 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


Port sheet winch

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill Yesterday the port sheet winch motor malfunctioned. When i tried to operate it  it would turn but in a few seconds slow to a stop as if it was overloaded. Obviously I immediately deactivated it. After a minute or so I tried again. Same result. Loaded or unloaded. The winch turns freely by hand and by winch handle so the problem is either in the motor or gearbox. Any suggestions. I have got under it and externally it looks fine. Do you know if its possible to separate the motor from the gearbox in situ. See photos attached

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


Re: Sea Chest

Mark Erdos
 

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


engine exhaust high temp alarm Sea Chest Clog Alarm

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,

This has saved my bacon twice. I mounted it by the Amel name plate on the companionway.

http://www.borelmfg.com/products_alarm.htm

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Karen Smith via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest Clog Alarm

 

Thanks, all!  

I was not looking to install one, just get a feel for the setpoint.  A minimum setpoint of -200 mbar gauge (80 inches of water) tells me what I need to know.  That's a significantly higher vacuum setpoint than I expected.  I would have thought something like 20 instead of 200.

For our raw water system, (which is a lot simpler than a later model SM) the AC units quickly shut down on high pressure if there is insufficient water, the genset quickly shuts down on high exhaust temperature if it lacks water. Adding a high wet exhaust temperature alarm to the main drive engine will cover pretty much all the cases.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: Sea Chest Clog Alarm

Karen Smith
 

Thanks, all!  

I was not looking to install one, just get a feel for the setpoint.  A minimum setpoint of -200 mbar gauge (80 inches of water) tells me what I need to know.  That's a significantly higher vacuum setpoint than I expected.  I would have thought something like 20 instead of 200.

For our raw water system, (which is a lot simpler than a later model SM) the AC units quickly shut down on high pressure if there is insufficient water, the genset quickly shuts down on high exhaust temperature if it lacks water. Adding a high wet exhaust temperature alarm to the main drive engine will cover pretty much all the cases.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: Sea Chest Clog Alarm

Roque
 

Karen,

I just ordered mine from Amel, $60,62 euros each, adaptor included (ex-Vat & shipping). Hasn't arrived yet. 

As far as I know, they are are made by Elettrotec – Italy (http://www.elettrotec.com/US/Vacuum_Switches.asp).

The adjustable pressure range (Elettrotec), depending on the model, is from  -200 to -900 mbar. 

Roque
Attika A54 # 117
Paraty- Brazil


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

eric freedman
 

Hi Mark,

Thank You,

I did not see the spec sheet before.

 

That will work nicely. I just have to remember to turn it off when I am on board.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 5:43 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

 

Eric,

I didn't really see it specified anywhere in the eBay listing but if you scroll through the pictures you will see a schematic showing a 16amp switch.  It also looks to be identical to this timer sold on Amazon that states that it is has a 16amp switch:  https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-CN101-Digital-Programmable-Switch/dp/B01MRYMT3H/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=24vdc+timer&qid=1606595869&sr=8-9


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

Mark McGovern
 

Eric,

I didn't really see it specified anywhere in the eBay listing but if you scroll through the pictures you will see a schematic showing a 16amp switch.  It also looks to be identical to this timer sold on Amazon that states that it is has a 16amp switch:  https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-CN101-Digital-Programmable-Switch/dp/B01MRYMT3H/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=24vdc+timer&qid=1606595869&sr=8-9


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

eric freedman
 

Hi Mark,

Where did you find the Amp rating?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 3:55 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

 

Eric,

It's appears to have a 16amp switch but you never really know with a ~$9 eBay timer.  If you are concerned, you could always have the timer control a relay and have the relay control the pump.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

Mark McGovern
 

Eric,

It's appears to have a 16amp switch but you never really know with a ~$9 eBay timer.  If you are concerned, you could always have the timer control a relay and have the relay control the pump.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

eric freedman
 

Hi Mark,

I was just thinking of running a additional wire to the hot side of the fresh water  pump, with a switch in the circuit.

I would leave the pump circuit breaker off and when the timer is activated it would run the pump for a few minutes. My only concern is, can the timer carry the current needed for the pump.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 2:16 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

 

Eric,

This programmable timer is very similar if not identical to the one that Bill Rouse has posted about using for this purpose:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/224040425984

You also need a 24vdc solenoid like this one for the timer to control the flow of freshwater:  https://www.burkert-usa.com/en/products/solenoid-valves/water-solenoid-valves/221602  

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

 

Yes, and let me add a warning about a potential mistake...I made it when I first did this.

Mark McGovern is correct about the solenoid that he says I used, but it was not the first one I used. The first one I used was indeed 24 volts, but AC rather than DC voltage. There are many 24VAC solenoid water valves available because this is what many lawn sprinkler systems use. And that is what I used until it failed about 2-3 months later. Be sure to check for DC Voltage:
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 1:16 PM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:
Eric,

This programmable timer is very similar if not identical to the one that Bill Rouse has posted about using for this purpose:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/224040425984

You also need a 24vdc solenoid like this one for the timer to control the flow of freshwater:  https://www.burkert-usa.com/en/products/solenoid-valves/water-solenoid-valves/221602  

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

Mark McGovern
 

Eric,

This programmable timer is very similar if not identical to the one that Bill Rouse has posted about using for this purpose:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/224040425984

You also need a 24vdc solenoid like this one for the timer to control the flow of freshwater:  https://www.burkert-usa.com/en/products/solenoid-valves/water-solenoid-valves/221602  

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Sea Chest Clog Alarm

 

Karen,

I do not have the precise vacuum, but I imagine that Amel probably adjusts the vacuum switch when it is installed. Here is the information I have in my book. The source of this information was Amel:
The Amel Sea Chest has an Amel innovative Vacuum Switch attached
via a hose to the Sea Chest Manifold. The Vacuum Switch is located
above the sea chest. Sea Chest blockage will create suction inside the
Sea Chest, which closes the switch, activating an alarm. Test this alarm
switch by closing the Sea Chest valve for up to 8 seconds while the engine
is running.

The internal part of the switch can get clogged as well as the curved
copper pipe. If the alarm isn't working, check for clogs.
To adjust the sensitivity of the vacuum switch, remove the top screw, then
using a jeweler's flat head screwdriver, inserted into a tiny, concealed
adjuster screw adjust the sensitivity. Turning the small screw clockwise,
increases sensitivity and the alarm comes on. Anticlockwise and the alarm
stops. Through trial and error, you will find the ‘sweet spot’ by running
the fridges, AC, engine, and generator at the same time. NOTE:
Adjusting sensitivity doesn't require the removal of the Vacuum Switch.

image.png

Also, if you order the sensor from Amel and have the one below on the left, you will find it has changed to the one below on the right.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Nov 28, 2020 at 5:18 AM Alan Grayson <bazgrayson@...> wrote:
I believe it is a vacuum activated switch as I remember doing to some work on the A/C unit that required the seacock to be closed. When I fired it back up with the sea cock closed it activated pretty much straight away

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2020 3:24 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest Clog Alarm
 
Those of you who have a newer SM with the switch that triggers the alarm for a clogged seachest:  

Does anybody know the pressure setpoint of this switch?


Timer for autmatic watermaker flush

eric freedman
 

Hi,

Some of you use a timer to activate the flush mechanism for the watermaker.

What model unit do you use?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Re: Sea Chest

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, While sailing back from Bermuda on a starboard tack ,my gen set shut down several times,I found that there was no water in the strainer,taking off the cap allowed it to fill. What do you think about inserting a very small tube in the lid and run  it up under the cockpit floor ,maybe with a one way valve ,so that an air lock would not form. Just a thought.
Pat
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest

Chris,

I have taken the photos and annotated them with the parts list.  

All of the fittings I used are standard NPT pipe fittings.  In the case of the outlet fitting on the strainer, that is actually a female 1-1/2” BSP thread.  In this size, the NPT and BSP threads are compatible enough that they will screw together just fine, but they will not make a reliable high pressure seal.  Don’t expect “teflon tape” to help here.  You’ll need paste type pipe sealant.  For the very low pressures seen here, it works fine despite the small mismatch in thread shapes..

We have been running this long enough now, we can confidently say that it works with no issues. Well, no issues that were not already there with the stock Amel manifold.

Here is the only problem we have with the “sea chest” design.  As we sail, air is entrained under the hull.  Some of this air finds the sea chest thruhull and rises into it, displacing the water.  If we are sailing fast, enough air comes through that in a very few hours the strainer and standpipe are empty of water. I am pretty confident that needing to purge this entrained air is the primary reason that the generators on Amel’s have such short lived raw water impellers.  I have a couple of ideas on how to improve this situation, but nothing ready to implement yet.

Our new generator has a hair trigger on its exhaust temperature shutdown which has made this problem more obvious.  Occasionally, and only when we are sailing, the high exhaust temp triggers a shut down right after it starts.  A second start try and it runs fine. If I crack the lid of the strainer and purge the air, it never happens. 

Short of closing the sea cock, I can’t think of a way to keep the air out, so I am trying to figure out a way to easily purge it.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


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