Date   
Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Scott;

 

We’re currently in the Med, so we’re on board full time for about 5 months every year. The fridges are obviously on all the time. We typically run two of the fridges and do not typically have a freezer on. I agree that the system will be working harder in the Caribbean and tropical conditions and are working closer to their design limits.

 

One of the reasons we selected an Amel, was because it had been tested over decades in conditions we expected to experience. I cannot comment based on personal experience about tropical conditions, since we have not experienced it with our Amel. I would look into the experience of all other Amel owners who have experienced the same conditions and if a significant percentage were experiencing what you and Arno have experienced, then I would conclude that there may be some design issues with the system. Otherwise I would suspect some other issue that may be unique to us. I typically suspect the design and component issues as a last resource, after I have eliminated all other possibilities.

 

Sorry that I cannot be of much more specific help, just another point of view.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 3:18 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump

 

Mohammad,

Do you live aboard full-time? Arno and I do and our experiences are similar. In tropical heat and 2 fridges and a freezer running, at any given time, it's very likely one of the compressors is running which means the pump is running. 

I would guess my pump runs 80+ % duty cycle. The Frigoboat pump interface really should have the ability to coordinate the compressor operation "schedule".

My understanding, confirmed by long discussions with pump engineers at Marco, is that brushes on any DC electric motor last 2500 hours on average and in the best circumstances 5000 hours. With the near continuous duty, the Flojet pumps get quite warm, which accelerates brush wear. If you take my experience with 6 month motor life and multiply it out: 180days * 24 hours a day * .8 duty cycle = 3456 hours, which is right within spec.

If your pump lasts 11 years in the same use case as Arno and myself, that would mean it's lasted over 75,000 hours!

Even March pumps, which are brushless, are only rated for 50,000 hours. But sadly for my setup, the March rep told me it wouldn't work since their pumps won't self-prime, confirmed by Arno's testing. I would really love to retain the self-priming capability of the Flojet pump but get a brushless motor on it, like Oliver has done.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Scott SV Tengah
 

Mohammad,

Do you live aboard full-time? Arno and I do and our experiences are similar. In tropical heat and 2 fridges and a freezer running, at any given time, it's very likely one of the compressors is running which means the pump is running. 

I would guess my pump runs 80+ % duty cycle. The Frigoboat pump interface really should have the ability to coordinate the compressor operation "schedule".

My understanding, confirmed by long discussions with pump engineers at Marco, is that brushes on any DC electric motor last 2500 hours on average and in the best circumstances 5000 hours. With the near continuous duty, the Flojet pumps get quite warm, which accelerates brush wear. If you take my experience with 6 month motor life and multiply it out: 180days * 24 hours a day * .8 duty cycle = 3456 hours, which is right within spec.

If your pump lasts 11 years in the same use case as Arno and myself, that would mean it's lasted over 75,000 hours!

Even March pumps, which are brushless, are only rated for 50,000 hours. But sadly for my setup, the March rep told me it wouldn't work since their pumps won't self-prime, confirmed by Arno's testing. I would really love to retain the self-priming capability of the Flojet pump but get a brushless motor on it, like Oliver has done.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

 

Thanks, Scott. I agree completely


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 2:46 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Agree, seems quite a few of us are on the same pages on this KISS
Cheers 
Alan 
Elyse SM 437 

Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arno;

We have never had any issues with these pumps. We are still on the original pump after 11 years and have the backup if the original dies.

Given the variant in life span and longevity that some are seeing in the same pump and design, I would suspect other potential problem areas that lead to the early demise of the pump. These may include flow restriction, differences in heat, moisture, in the operating environment, demand and cycling, etc.

I know this may not be very specific and helpful, but I usually suspect the mechanical units in the system that have functioned well in so many other identical installation, last.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
A54 #099

On Jan 12, 2020, at 4:11 AM, Arno Luijten via Groups.Io <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

Great to hear I’m not the only one that has trouble with these pumps. I asked Flojet about this and they simply do not carry a brushless variant of this pump. I did have a look at a few other pumps that look very nice on paper (magnetic-drive and brushless). The two I tested (both centrifugal) did not supply enough pressure to overcome the resistance in the hoses/pipes. I now have al lot of pumps to do other stuff with :-(

Currently running a 12V/1.5A Flojet Quiet Quad but I’m sure it will die within a year despite the claim to be for continuous duty. It does stay cooler then the “official” Frigoboat pump that is actually a 24V shower-pump running at 12V. The pressure of the 12V model is adequate.

So I’m also interested in a more resilient solution to this problem. 

Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

Great to hear I’m not the only one that has trouble with these pumps. I asked Flojet about this and they simply do not carry a brushless variant of this pump. I did have a look at a few other pumps that look very nice on paper (magnetic-drive and brushless). The two I tested (both centrifugal) did not supply enough pressure to overcome the resistance in the hoses/pipes. I now have al lot of pumps to do other stuff with :-(

Currently running a 12V/1.5A Flojet Quiet Quad but I’m sure it will die within a year despite the claim to be for continuous duty. It does stay cooler then the “official” Frigoboat pump that is actually a 24V shower-pump running at 12V. The pressure of the 12V model is adequate.

So I’m also interested in a more resilient solution to this problem. 

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Alan Leslie
 

Agree, seems quite a few of us are on the same pages on this KISS
Cheers 
Alan 
Elyse SM 437 

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Gotta have some Keep it simple Stupid.  Amel gives us a simple task to keep our engines running for years…

:-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 12 Jan 2020, at 19:16, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Im with you on that Scott.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 12 January 2020 at 14:13 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I would be concerned leaving the vent open on the Vetus because in the past, we've had to start the engine somewhat unexpectedly. For example, a rain-less squall came and resulted in a huge wind shift that the autopilot couldn't cope with, resulting in us getting backwinded. I fired up the engine and quickly got us around the right way. 

Might be a bit more complicated if you're dumping seawater and CO into the engine room.

I'll stick to running it for 15 minutes daily and enjoy the hot water showers!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Im with you on that Scott.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 12 January 2020 at 14:13 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I would be concerned leaving the vent open on the Vetus because in the past, we've had to start the engine somewhat unexpectedly. For example, a rain-less squall came and resulted in a huge wind shift that the autopilot couldn't cope with, resulting in us getting backwinded. I fired up the engine and quickly got us around the right way. 

Might be a bit more complicated if you're dumping seawater and CO into the engine room.

I'll stick to running it for 15 minutes daily and enjoy the hot water showers!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Scott SV Tengah
 

Oliver, 

Could you show us a photo of this setup? A picture is worth a million words.

My second Flojet pump just died. With two fridges and a freezer running, the lifetime is 6 months, max. Upon disassembly, it appears the brushes have worn out and the commutator is heavily scored - looks like the Grand Canyon. I would love to retain the diaphragm pump but replace the motor as you have.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Scott SV Tengah
 

I would be concerned leaving the vent open on the Vetus because in the past, we've had to start the engine somewhat unexpectedly. For example, a rain-less squall came and resulted in a huge wind shift that the autopilot couldn't cope with, resulting in us getting backwinded. I fired up the engine and quickly got us around the right way. 

Might be a bit more complicated if you're dumping seawater and CO into the engine room.

I'll stick to running it for 15 minutes daily and enjoy the hot water showers!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

karkauai
 

Sounds like I'm worrying about something that hasn't been an issue.  Guess I'll leave well enough alone.

Thanks,
Sail safe, sail fast, have fun!
Kent

On Jan 10, 2020 11:13 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,

I thought I had replied but it seems to be lost somewhere. I have a large diameter stainless tube at the end of the exhaust just inside the hull and the exhaust is attached to that. I assume the flap is in there. I have never gone looking. I think we are wise to follow Amel advice as to starting the engine daily. Those of us with wind and solar who don't need the genset  every day would likewise be sensible to do a daily start.

Regards

and best wishes for the New Year

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 11 January 2020 at 09:53 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,
So do we have a flap valve somewhere in the system?  I thought it was supposed to be at the muffler.  Do we have one at the exhaust exit thru-hull?
If not, should we?

I have been aware of the fact that water can backflow into the engine on a port tack, and do run the engine and generator a couple times a day while at sea and have had no problems so far.

Kent
Kristy
SM243


On Jan 9, 2020 1:29 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, We have the same. Identical including the tread on top.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 10 January 2020 at 03:23 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Kristy (SM243) has a stainless steel mixing "box" instead of a Vetus muffler.  Pic attached.  Is there a flap valve here as well?    If not, can one be added to the exhaust hose?  If that's a bad idea, should I be getting a muffler?

Thanks,
Kent and Iris
Palm Beach FL heading to Bahamas and S with the next weather window. 
_._,_.
_._,_


Re: New companionway lock source

Aras <aras.grinius@...>
 

Karen is defintitely the source goddess. She amazing at locating impossibly sourced items.

Rumor as has it tat she can sense where the fish are and Bill just reaches in grabs one for dinner.

Aras
Sharki#163

Re: Too many VHF aerials?

Aras <aras.grinius@...>
 

I cut the number of antennae I have from 8 to 3. On the mizzenmast i ve AIS and WiFi booster; main has VHF and cabin top has vesper 8000.

When I upgraded the nav stuff most of the old antennae belonged to furuno stuff.

Aras
Sharki #163

Re: Recommentation for Sharki second autopilot

Aras <aras.grinius@...>
 

If you do this it would great to see how you take this action
Aras
Sharki #163

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

I thought I had replied but it seems to be lost somewhere. I have a large diameter stainless tube at the end of the exhaust just inside the hull and the exhaust is attached to that. I assume the flap is in there. I have never gone looking. I think we are wise to follow Amel advice as to starting the engine daily. Those of us with wind and solar who don't need the genset  every day would likewise be sensible to do a daily start.

Regards

and best wishes for the New Year

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 11 January 2020 at 09:53 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,
So do we have a flap valve somewhere in the system?  I thought it was supposed to be at the muffler.  Do we have one at the exhaust exit thru-hull?
If not, should we?

I have been aware of the fact that water can backflow into the engine on a port tack, and do run the engine and generator a couple times a day while at sea and have had no problems so far.

Kent
Kristy
SM243


On Jan 9, 2020 1:29 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, We have the same. Identical including the tread on top.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 10 January 2020 at 03:23 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Kristy (SM243) has a stainless steel mixing "box" instead of a Vetus muffler.  Pic attached.  Is there a flap valve here as well?    If not, can one be added to the exhaust hose?  If that's a bad idea, should I be getting a muffler?

Thanks,
Kent and Iris
Palm Beach FL heading to Bahamas and S with the next weather window. 
_._,_.
_._,_

Re: Mango vs Meltem

Daniel Alexander Thompson
 

Thank you for the reply, Arlo. 

Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

karkauai
 

Hi Danny,
So do we have a flap valve somewhere in the system?  I thought it was supposed to be at the muffler.  Do we have one at the exhaust exit thru-hull?
If not, should we?

I have been aware of the fact that water can backflow into the engine on a port tack, and do run the engine and generator a couple times a day while at sea and have had no problems so far.

Kent
Kristy
SM243


On Jan 9, 2020 1:29 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, We have the same. Identical including the tread on top.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 10 January 2020 at 03:23 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Kristy (SM243) has a stainless steel mixing "box" instead of a Vetus muffler.  Pic attached.  Is there a flap valve here as well?    If not, can one be added to the exhaust hose?  If that's a bad idea, should I be getting a muffler?

Thanks,
Kent and Iris
Palm Beach FL heading to Bahamas and S with the next weather window. 
_._,_.
_._,_

Re: New companionway lock source

Nicolas Klene
 

Hello Arlo
if you post a photo of your key ( if you have one left !) I will try to locate one in France for you .
regards 
Nick
 
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille

Re: Replacement Corian for SM2K dishwasher lid

Drew Gaffney
 

Kent,
Thank you so much!  This is perfect.  I really appreciate your help.  You must have made A's in geometry...
If anyone needs to replace this cover or the lid to the portside galley counter, let me know.  The Aurora Corian seems to be readily available.  
Hope you have a good sail to the Caribbean.
Best wishes,
Drew
SV Revelation SM2K-390

Re: Batteries

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 


Thank you Gary for your reply. I hope the marina faired well following the earthquake. It will take some time for the mainlanders to get back to life as usual. We decided to go with DC batteries out of Miami. They quoted $2,150 (10 batteries) to St.Maarten through Tropical shipping. We can squeeze a little more life out of these. Can't believe they can ship so cheaply. We will be in Puerto Del Ray marina 1/27 for a few days. I'd like to meet if your there. 
Best regards,
Chuck 


On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 12:03 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Chuck:

Sorry not to respond earlier.  Just got a chance to look at messages.  Earthquake took out power for a couple of days and wifi just dumped about 200 messages onto my phone.  I purchased my Trojan SCS 225 Group 30H batteries from Battery Giant, 1 Calle Acuarela, Suit 102, Guaynabo PR 00969 ( a few miles south of downtown San Juan),  Javier (787) 509-0109‬, main (939) 205-4444‬.  He had to special order them (not stocked) and it took about three weeks for them to come in.  I just timed it so they were there when I arrived back from the US.  $240 each total including the 11.5% tax on everything here in PR.  You will need a car to pick them up.  Perhaps they would deliver, don't know as I didn't enquire.  It is about a 15 minute drive from the San Juan Airport to Battery Giant, south of the city.  I just got them with the rental car upon arriving in San Juan and headed to Puerto Del Rey.  

Let us all know if you find something better.  

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
Slip 1439, Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico