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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Jamie Wendell
I replace my membranes when I see the TDS tests showing higher than "normal" levels or the water tastes a bit salty. I have found it important to actually test with a meter vs. relying on the built-in sensor. That sensor always seems to show a green light after a few minutes running and I am not sure how it is calibrated.
I have never seen the numbers exceed approved standards (I believe 500), but I like to err on the side of caution if I see TDS numbers rising say above 300. Hence, I replace about every 2 to 3 years, particularly if I do not use the watermaker routinely (winter storage for example). In 5+ years of being an Amel owner, this will be my second replacement. Jamie Phantom, A54 #44
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Scott SV Tengah
Denis -
I am a little confused. Desslator said that both motors turn at the same speed on the pump due to pulley differences, so I'm not sure how the 230v motor flows more water than the 24v? Maybe I'm not understanding the system? In any event, even if the membrane life is somehow 2x, by using the AC over the DC motor, you're using an additional 500 watts, which is roughly 20 amps. Over 4000 hours of using the 230v pump vs. the 24v pump, you're using 80,000 extra amp hours of energy. If you're running genset to run the 230v AC motor, that's 4,000 extra hours of genset usage and all the fuel and maintenance that entails. If you have lithium and a big inverter then you won't need to run the genset during usage, but could rather charge the batteries later. Even with my two chargers feeding 200Amps, that's an extra 400 hours of generator usage and all the fuel and maintenance that entails. This ignores the environmental cost of all that genset usage, which is not zero. I can't see the AC pump being anything more than a backup, assuming your electrical system can handle 600w, which it should even on lead acid. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Scott SV Tengah
Jamie - how long do your membranes last? I presume you're replacing once TDS goes above a certain limit?
-- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Scott SV Tengah
Thanks! For energy saving purposes, going forward, we will try to use the 24v DC motor whenever possible but it's good to have the 230v AC as a backup. We replaced the entire water maker not too long ago and have about 350 hours on it and only maybe 20 hours on the AC motor, but I'm sure others would love to improve their older units.
Do you have the part numbers for all the changes you made to the water maker? -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Hello,
Concerning the Dessalator DUO 100, the information I have gathered : - the 230V motor is more efficient and the good flow in the membranes keep them in good conditions for longer (4000h versus 2000h with the 24V flow) - a good feeding pump allowing sufficient flow through double 20 and 5 micron filters are good for the CAT pump. Avoiding cavitation is crucial for longevity. - Reading Oliver of Vela Nautic who is very knowledgeable the Dessalator duo 230V motor can be improved to an industrial grade with excellent bearings and shafts. - A lot of electronics can look good but is prone to more complex failures difficult to fix. This research also led me to have a look at Aquatec German made water maker that advocates 230V when generator is fitted. But I like the redundancy of the DUO that has also 24V motor in case the generator fails. (Which does happen). They indicate the use of a high quality Stainless Steel high pressure pump. The ideal water maker would be a combination of both concepts allowing reliability and redundancy. As I am not an expert of this field I would like to have your real world feed back on the ideal Blue Water Cruising water maker. Thank's Denis Ex Madinina Meltem
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Jamie Wendell
Almost wish I had the duo system after looking at those numbers. I only have the 230 VAC version.,,,,,,,
The good news is that it has been pretty reliable - the only issue I had was the mounts for the low-pressure pump (replaced in Martinique) and the high-pressure switch failing (also replaced). I also replaced the HP hoses, as the covering seems to go bad pretty fast. I am due, though, for a membrane replacement (second time) - not a fun job for sure. I have the new ones ready to go. Jamie Phantom, A54 #44
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Re: Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Hello, We got the same Duo 100. It was compleatly falling apart after only 300h of use when we got Vela Nautica. We gave it a compleat refit what included an one DIN grade stronger AC Motor because CAT PUMP Germany said the build in AC Motor is not strong enough. And the motor shaft was worn out. It was also needed to replace the soft pulley discs to industrial grade ones and change all bearings to high quality SKF. The selenoid previously munted on the device did not cope with the units vibrations and was then wall mounted. Since that its working flawless and has now about 900 hours. The unit is now almoast vibration free and is not to be heard anymore. We use AC only when the Genset is working anyway. Otherwise we use the 24V motor. We like this oportunity to switch AC / 24 V, I think its a clever design. Only it might be wise to use higher grade spares than the original brand. An replacement of the 220 V AC motor is not really expensive (industrial grade about 160 €) so its not worth to level motor wear. Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 Martinique
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 16:29 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote: We have a Desslator Duo 100 that runs on either 24v DC or 230v AC.
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Re: Lubrication of the Mechanism That Drives The Main Sail Furling Unit
Hi Bill. Yes, I'm referring to the manual furler that the winch handle goes in. I don't know how you could add oil with it in place. Mine had never been serviced, and hearing about the shearing off of the foil, I wanted to remove it to check that anyway. Mine had holes that were elongated to about 15mm, so I cut it off and drilled new holes. There was still oil in the gearbox, but only a cup or so, and it was black. After dismantling it and cleaning it up, I reassembled it and with it lying on the bench with the opening where the drive shaft goes in facing up, I poured in the oil and then finished assembling. Hope that helps, Kent
On Jun 30, 2020 2:24 PM, Bill Shaproski <bill.shaproski@...> wrote:
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Dessalator Duo watermakers - energy saving tip: don't use 230v if you can avoid it
Scott SV Tengah
We have a Desslator Duo 100 that runs on either 24v DC or 230v AC.
According to the specs and our own measurements, the 24v motor draws 600watts and the 230v motor draws 1100watts! The AC motor draws 83% more energy, so I asked Desslator if it produced more water per hour. Here's their response: "It is the pulleys ratio which make both motors turn at the same speed at the axis of the pump, even if the electrical consumption is more important with the AC motor. Consequently, both motors produce the same liters per hour (around 100 liters with a 25° sea water)." I've been trying to "balance out" the motor wear by using both DC and AC, as I'm acutely aware of the problem of DC motor brush wear on my fridge pumps. But it seems if you're trying to do your part to save energy, running the AC motor is not a good idea. Related question - what are people's experiences with DC and AC motor longevity. My research on DC motor brushes seems to indicate 2000-3000 hours of life is typical. What about the AC motor? I recall hearing the capacitors being the first things to go? -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Scott SV Tengah
To help redirect this thread back to the topic :) :
March Pumps responded and their shafts are round and either 1/4 inch = 6.35mm 3/8 inch = 9.525mm We just need to find an adapter that can take a round imperial shaft size and make it a metric 8mm D-shaped shaft size! Another question to ponder: the shaft will rotate millions or billions of times. The alignment should therefore be perfect, right? Is that too much to ask of an adapter? Also, let's try to find motors that meet the flow spec and use as little energy as possible. Veco specs that we need about 4 liters / 1 gal per minute. The current flojet uses around 26-40w, so I am hoping we can get a replacement that doesn't use a lot more than that. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Lubrication of the Mechanism That Drives The Main Sail Furling Unit
Hi Kent and Iris, Thanks much for the info. I just want to confirm that when you say you serviced the manual furler you are referring to the unit at the bottom of the main sail where you insert the winch handle to manually furl or unfurl the main when the electric system has failed. If yes, were you able to lubricate the inside of the unit with the unit in place. If so, how was this accomplished? I reviewed a YouTube video from Ken on Aquarius where he explains how to completely rebuild the unit which looks reasonably challenging. So if there's a way to lube it without disassembly I'd prefer that. Thanks for your interest. Regards Bill Shaproski Pacific Cool
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Bill Shaproski Cell: +1-206-375-2787
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Re: Lubrication of the Mechanism That Drives The Main Sail Furling Unit
Hi Randall, Thanks much for the info on Ken's video on how to rebuild the main sail manual
furler. It's exactly what I was looking for. In fact I met Ken several times two years ago in the Caribbean. Regards Bill Shaproski Pacific Cool
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:50 PM Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
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Bill Shaproski Cell: +1-206-375-2787
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Maramu Furling Mainsail - NEW for sale.
Furling Mainsail in HydraNet. New. Located in the US. see https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/ShareParts/topic/maramu_furling_mainsail_never/75216717?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,75216717
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Jamie Wendell
The new engine has been excellent after 1300 hours or so. Very happy I went with the 150i, although the 110i would probably be just fine as well.
I am certain that Amel is acting with an abundance of caution, as the gearbox (and maybe the C-Drive) is not technically rated for the higher power engine. I am ALWAYS very cautious and never throttle the engine too fast or exceed 2000 rpm - no need to really, since the power curve for the D3-110 and D3-150 are identical up to about 1750 rpm. Above that is when the extra power kicks in. Jamie Phantom, A54 #44
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Jamie,
In May 2018 I also replaced my D3-110C. But after getting the strong advise from AMEL withstood, reluctantly, the tremendous temptation to also go for the D3-150H as it was only a chip and for the same price. So now I have the D3-110H
I assume you have now the D3-150H; how is that working out. Not to mess up this thread pls Email me @: teun@...
Best Regards Teun AMELIT A54 #128 June 29, 2020 17:07:45
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 16:47 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Teun, not to hijack this thread, which is about the
infernal refrigerator pump problems we have all been having, I should point out that I had to replace my Volvo Penta engine a couple of years ago.
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Jamie Wendell
Teun, not to hijack this thread, which is about the infernal refrigerator pump problems we have all been having, I should point out that I had to replace my Volvo Penta engine a couple of years ago.
Since the new D3 engines have identical footprints (just different tuning), I upgraded from the D3-110 to the D3-150. It uses more fuel at the same RPM, so I tend to burn more fuel than I did before. Jamie Phantom, A54 #44
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Jamie Wendell
Teun, when I do long crossings, I like to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. As such, I often motor-sail if the wind is not just right. Yes, I carry 900 liters in the tank, but having extra is always a good thing, as I have used almost 900 liters before in one trip.
I can carry an extra 200 liters in jerry cans and/or 200 liters in my bladder tank if needed. |
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi Ruslan,
Yeah – I have been looking at that; there is also one which does 7 gallons per minute.
Thanks
Best Regards Teun AMELIT A54 #128 June 29, 2020 16:18:21
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ruslan Osmonov via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 15:57 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi, for fuel transfer I recently discovered siphon hoses with shaker primer. Very easy to transfer from jerry can, fast and the most important, you don’t have to lift and pour and wait for it. Not much to break either 🙂 So far it’s been great.
This is an example of what I’m talking about.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:14 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Ruslan Osmonov
Hi, for fuel transfer I recently discovered siphon hoses with shaker primer. Very easy to transfer from jerry can, fast and the most important, you don’t have to lift and pour and wait for it. Not much to break either 🙂 So far it’s been great. This is an example of what I’m talking about.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:14 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote: I installed a bi-directional Marco pump in the starboard locker (along with fuel supply connections) so that I could transfer fuel into and out of 20-liter yellow jerry cans. I also have a bladder tank I mount on the aft deck for long passages. I can transfer into and out of it as well. --
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for reply.
Have you ever been in a situation you needed more than 700 to 800 liter? We have 900 liter capacity on board but you don’t want to run very low and keep 150/200 liter in the tank and so, I assume, maybe 5 cans on the railing?
Best Regards Teun AMELIT A54 #128 June 29, 2020 15:40:25
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Jamie Wendell via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 15:14 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
I installed a bi-directional Marco pump in the starboard locker (along with fuel supply connections) so that I could transfer fuel into and out of 20-liter yellow jerry cans. I also have a bladder tank I mount on the aft deck for long passages.
I can transfer into and out of it as well.
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