Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you for that, we also have the Emek marine arc and wired in serie, with an Victron MPPT controller, I will follow up looks as I'm only reaching 2/3 of what I should expect, may be one panel is malfunction?
I'm thinking of adding 2-4 lightweight panels only 1.3 kg each for 100 w. two on the Spray hood and two on the rail with possibility to tilt them. Anyone know how to best install them? one idea is to have them in two new groups i.e two additional MPPT controller hence if one group in shadow the other one is not negatively affected.  Or put all the new in series and have one additional MPPT controller. I do not think it's good to have just one new larger MPPT controller as I have read that one should not mix panels with different parameters in the same group.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Paul,

We have 3 140 watt Kyocera panels on our arch made by Emek Marine. On a sunny day, we see about 14+ amps coming in with the sun directly overhead. Our panels are wired in series, and running to a Morningstar MPPT controller. I think you should be seeing more amps coming in since you have a few more amp hours than us. 

Regards,
Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Antigua


On Feb 29, 2016, at 10:55, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello! We have 450 w solar panels and very seldom see AMPS above 7A 24 volt system. I do not know if this is good or bad however lower than I expected. Anyone having longer experience than I have as rather new o how much to expect from 450 W on solar arc?

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM #259


Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello! We have 450 w solar panels and very seldom see AMPS above 7A 24 volt system. I do not know if this is good or bad however lower than I expected. Anyone having longer experience than I have as rather new o how much to expect from 450 W on solar arc?
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM #259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gray Water Bilge Pump Switch

Ian Park
 

Bill
You're correct. I replaced the Genoa switch with a normal two way throw, but it was disconcerting when you released and it didn't switch off! That's when I decided to take the old one apart. But it is the same type of owner serviceable switch.

Ian


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

karkauai
 

Hmmm, that's odd.  If I turn the switch (on the panel) to AUTO, it always starts with a yellow light, which changes to green after 2 minutes.  If I turn the switch to MANUAL, it comes on yellow and stays yellow.

You say your pump isn't coming on at all?  I had the start solenoid stick a few years ago. Check for voltage to the motor and the start solenoid on top of the motor.  If you have power to the solenoid but not the motor, tap on the solenoid with a small wrench or screwdriver handle.  If there's no power to the solenoid, and the red light is coming on, I'd check the pressure switch.  I think you can disconnect the pressure switch and see if it works, check with Mark at Great Waters about that.
If the red light doesn't come on, it could still be the pressure switch, but with the change in the yellow/green lights, I'd be starting to suspect the control board.  It's in a box on the back of the galley panel.

If your motor is coming on but not producing pressure, try priming with fresh water as I described in the last post.

Good luck.  Let us know what you find.


On Feb 29, 2016, at 7:33 AM, francesringley@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent


Thanks for this. Mark is the source for the end caps so I could connect with him. It seems weird that the failure is not directly connected to the end cap replacement I did unless I have blown something up. I will add your strategies to the list of things I am going to try.

Another nuance. After letting it sit for a while, I turn the switch on and get the yellow light. I turn it off and then back on, I get the green light.

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gray Water Bilge Pump Switch

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Ian, 

The sail control toggle switches are: 
OFF-Momentary-ON. Normally Open, spring to off  Single Pole, Single Throw toggle switches. This type of switch is sometimes referred to as a "Reset Switch."

However, they would probably work just fine.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

This is the same as the switches for the sail controls.
They are easy to dis-assemble and service. I put a short description on the amel.net site.
I did my sail switches and they work very smoothly again, but I may now tackle the bilge one (with suitable cloths around to prevent loss - best to learn from other's experience!)

Bill, sorry we didn't spot you in Marin. We've moved on to Antigua now.

Best wishes

Ian



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gray Water Bilge Pump Switch

Ian Park
 

This is the same as the switches for the sail controls.
They are easy to dis-assemble and service. I put a short description on the amel.net site.
I did my sail switches and they work very smoothly again, but I may now tackle the bilge one (with suitable cloths around to prevent loss - best to learn from other's experience!)

Bill, sorry we didn't spot you in Marin. We've moved on to Antigua now.

Best wishes

Ian


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Gray Water Bilge Pump Switch

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alan,

You are correct and I was WRONG.

My switch felt much softer probably because of 13 years of constant use. The switch is fairly standard, but a high quality SPST switch rated at 16amps.  The nomenclature on switch that I just bought at Amel Martinique is 631H EN61058-APEM2 T/85/55 

I believe this is the exact switch: http://elcodis.com/parts/1828848/631H.html

Bill
BeBe 387
Martinique

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
Alan,

It is not a standard SPST toggle switch. If it were, I would not be asking.

Bill
BeBe 387





On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 7:58 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill,

Its just a standard SPST (Single pole Single throw) switch with the toggle extended for the string thingy....shouldn't be hard to find something that will do the job, any electrical shop should have one.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

karkauai
 

Thanks Colin, and everyone who has contributed.  The options are pretty clear to me now, I think.
I think I'll stick with the original setup for now.  I'll be in the Western Caribbean for a year or two.  If/when I head for the S Pacific, I'll add the arch and solar.  The next time I need to buy batteries I'll increase my AHrs to either 450 or 675.

Great discussion, thanks again.
Kent


On Feb 29, 2016, at 7:36 AM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Hi Collin,
When we changed batteries the first time on Lady Annila, we hade to raise the lid with a few cm. It was not to difficult, we made a wooden frame that we mounted on top of the battery box and then re-mounted the "lid" on that frame. 

Today we have 450 Ah Trojan 105 batteries, 8+1 in the ordinary battery compartment. We have had some thought on rebuilding the box to be able to fit an other 4 Trojan105, but after this first year with the batteries, we have decided that it isn't necessary toghether with our solarpanels and the windgenerator.

Regards
Annsofie
s/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998.

Skickat från min iPad

29 feb. 2016 kl. 13:36 skrev Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> </div><div>Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00) </div><div>To: amelyachtowners@... </div><div>Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind? </div><div>
</div>Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Ian,

I would not worry too much about the green light...many Dessalator Control boards have a 2 minute timer which turns it ON.

The control board on the 160L is behind the control unit you see in the galley. You can access it from inside the cockpit lazarette. There is a piece of plywood to remove and you will see a gray plastic box, remove the cover and you see the controls. I am guessing the D50 is not much different in terms of location. Gary Silver did an excellent job of identifying the 160L control board, its components and all of the controls. Search the photo section for Dessalator and I am sure you will find it...maybe it can help you with your model. Let me know if you cannot find this.

I seem to remember circular O rings and a directional O ring (flat on one side to increase seal as pressure increases), but I think that the directional O ring is on the Membrane and not the end cap. However, if there was a directional O ring on the end cap, this could be your issue.

With all things considered, the fact that it was running fine before you changed end caps, and, based on the details of your project, I believe that the most likely problem is air in the lines, pump and tubes. 

If you agree, try this:
To get all of the air out of everything except the tubes, you can loosen the HP line that runs from the pump where it attaches to the end cap. Then flushing with fresh water until you are sure there is no more air..then reconnect the line, before tightening it, turn ON the flush once more to get the last bit of air out...then tighten securely and flush with fresh water at least 5 minutes. Turn OFF the flush and give it a try. Hopefully, it will work as before.

I hope this helps. Let me know.

Bill
BeBe 387
Martinique

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:33 PM, francesringley@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Kent


Thanks for this. Mark is the source for the end caps so I could connect with him. It seems weird that the failure is not directly connected to the end cap replacement I did unless I have blown something up. I will add your strategies to the list of things I am going to try.

Another nuance. After letting it sit for a while, I turn the switch on and get the yellow light. I turn it off and then back on, I get the green light.

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153



Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

francesringley@...
 

Hi Kent.

We put an arch up from Atlantic Towers to hold our single 240 watt Kyocera panel, wifi range extender and dinghy davits. Whole thing cost about $3400 on a boat show special. We frequently see 7 to 9 amps being produced and I would estimate a total of 40 amp hours per day . We use two fridge/freezers. At anchor and for this time of year in the Bahamas where it has been averaging mid 70s temperature, we run the generator about 90 minutes per day.

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

francesringley@...
 

Hi Kent

Thanks for this. Mark is the source for the end caps so I could connect with him. It seems weird that the failure is not directly connected to the end cap replacement I did unless I have blown something up. I will add your strategies to the list of things I am going to try.

Another nuance. After letting it sit for a while, I turn the switch on and get the yellow light. I turn it off and then back on, I get the green light.

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153


Re: Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

francesringley@...
 

Hi Bill. Thanks for this. My responses in CAPS.
  • OK, you did not remove the membranes. Correct? CORRECT
  • You had to disconnect the hoses on the end caps, but you did not list that as a step? Are you sure they are back in the same place? YES.
  • Did you use O rings on the end caps? THERE ARE TWO ON EACH
  • Did you use silicone on the O rings? I USED A BIT OF DISH LIQUID ON THE O RINGS TO GET THE END CAPS ON
  • Do you have more that 1 tube, YES if so, did you separate the tubes and do anything with the interconnect bobbin? SEPARATED THEM AND CONNECTED USING THE BOBBIN. AND, its O ring? ALREADY ON THE BOBBIN
  • When you flush do you see any pressure on the gauge...how much? THE FRESH WATER PUMP GAUGE IS AT 20 PSI. THERE IS AN INLINE GAUGE FROM THE PUMP TO THE RINSE LEVER. IT READS 1 BAR AT REST AND APPROACHES 2 BAR WHEN THE RINSE IS GOING THROUGH AND THEN DESCENDS BACK TO 1 BAR. THE GAUGE ON THE PANEL FOR THE HIGH PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE DOES NOT CHANGE EVEN WHEN I TRY TO ENGAGE THE HIGH PRESSURE PUMP, UNSURPRISINGLY
Without really knowing anymore and without answers to the above questions, here are my guesses of the possibilities in the order of highest first:
  1. Maybe there is air in the pump and/or in the tubes.THAT IS WHAT I SUSPECT, AN AIR LOCK
  2. Maybe you reconnected the hoses incorrectly. Remember, water from the center of the tube is product water, water to the outside is saltwater. PRETTY SURE THEY ARE PUT BACK TOGETHER IN THE RIGHT PLACES BUT MY NEXT STAB AT THIS WILL BE TO DISASSEMBLE NIT ALL AND START AGAIN
  3. Maybe a circuit breaker on the control board is OPEN    WHERE IS THE CONTROL BOARD?
  4. Maybe you have a pump failure POSSIBLE
  5. Maybe there is blockage on the input or output. ALSO POSSIBLE


NECO NM692 AUTOPILOT

Alejandro Paquin
 

Good morning to all,

Does anyone in this group have a working control unit for NECO NM 692 autopilot that is not in use and is willing to sell?

Alex Paquin

SIMPATICO

Older Maramu 1981

Hull #94


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Solar. Wind gem and arch

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

John,

Both the Beagle Channel or the west coast of Scotland are way beyond my capabilities. Those are places for true sailors who do not mind freezing their butts off. I am neither a true sailor or a cold weather sailor.

Annsofie,

What I need is a continuous period of actual current gained from wind only. It needs to be at least a 30-day period, but 6 months would be better. If I had this data, I could add it to what I already did for solar and maybe have something meaningful. Frankly, I will have to get an attitude adjustment to complete it because I have become very prejudiced.

Thanks,

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

What kind of solid data do you want Bill? We might be able to provide you with it.

A wind generator can not replace solar panels, it is a complement.

Regards 
Annsofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM 232, 1998


Skickat från min iPad

28 feb. 2016 kl. 23:55 skrev 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Wind generators may be a good thing with winds of 20kts, but Have you looked at historical data...there is not anyplace in the world that I would cruise to that has a constant 20kts of wind.

In fact, there is no solid data that wind generators are as good of value in terms of KwH/$ as solar. I have tried for 10 years to get solid data from anyone who has wind generators. I have not received one bit of solid historical data in order to build a comparison/value model for wind, solar and diesel generator. It seems to me the best that I get is something like "last weekend when the wind was blowing and it was cloudy, my wind generator provided all I needed. OTH, there is solid historical data on solar. BTW, I did build a a comparison/value model for solar vs diesel generator...and the results are amazing...at least to me.

If money is no object buy both; if you are like me, you will choose one of them...choose wisely.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:02 PM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Kent.  Usually once a day unless there us no no sun or wind With good wind 20 knots plus not at all.
We have just had a month on the boat cruising.  We may have used it 10 times in total ,if that. However we did a bit of motoring so that charged too 
 Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 Ocean pearl 



Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:29/02/2016 03:01 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Solar. Wind gem and arch

Thanks for the feedback.  Danny, with your solar and wind, how often do you run your generator while cruising?
Thanks
Kent


On Feb 28, 2016, at 2:23 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Kent
Because I wasn't prepared go cross oceans relying on diesel power for l my charging.  So we put a wind
Generator and solar tpanels on. Be a use of shortage of time  and cash we put two 130 watt panels on the port rail beside the aft cabin.  These swivel.readily when docking  I promised myself  to do something else if they were a nuisance there
They have not been and I have no reason to change.
We put a 350 watt super wind self feathering wind Gen on top of the mizzen.  Perfect,




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

Veit M <veitm@...>
 

Hi Ian:

I have the same water maker - and did this rebuilt last year. Mark suggested to change the filter elements as well, which is what we did. Oh, and I had the motor serviced.
Everything works perfect.

Before doing this, I think one of the filters was plugged up and developed quite a resistance - so very little water was being produced and the unit cut out every so often .
Good luck.

Veit
s/v Atman SM215


On Feb 28, 2016, at 8:23 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ian,
I had to rebuild my high pressure pump a few months ago.  It was running but didn't generate any pressure.
When I put it all back together, it cut off within seconds and the red light on the galley panel came on.  If I shut it off, then back on, the same thing happened.  That red light indicates high pressure, even though there was no pressure in the system. It may also indicate other faults, I don't know???

I replaced the pressure switch behind the panel with a new one from Great Waters in Maine (talk to Mark Fruehof), and the pump came on and stayed on, but no pressure developed.
I then turned the hi pressure pump on with the flush valve open and the fresh water pump running to prime the high pressure pump.  I finally got water flowing and could feel a lot of bubbles going through the high pressure line to the membranes.  When I couldn't feel any more bubbles, I opened the intake valve to sea water and everything seemed to work fine...until the pressure got up to just below the green zone, and it cut the pump off again, with the red light showing on the panel.

The new switch is supposed to be set to shut the pump off at 70 bar, but mine wasn't properly adjusted.  If you take the cap off of the new switch, you will see a screw that you can turn clockwise to increase or counterclockwise to decrease the cutoff pressure.  It took me three times in the cockpit locker to get it right and now everything works well again.
I don't know if the switch could be cleaned with something to get salt or mineral deposits out of it, but that's a possibility.
Hope that helps.  If it's not clear, I'll try again.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 28, 2016, at 7:25 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

  • OK, you did not remove the membranes. Correct?
  • You had to disconnect the hoses on the end caps, but you did not list that as a step? Are you sure they are back in the same place?
  • Did you use O rings on the end caps?
  • Did you use silicone on the O rings?
  • Do you have more that 1 tube, if so, did you separate the tubes and do anything with the interconnect bobbin? AND, its O ring?
  • When you flush do you see any pressure on the gauge...how much?
Without really knowing anymore and without answers to the above questions, here are my guesses of the possibilities in the order of highest first:
  1. Maybe there is air in the pump and/or in the tubes.
  2. Maybe you reconnected the hoses incorrectly. Remember, water from the center of the tube is product water, water to the outside is saltwater.
  3. Maybe a circuit breaker on the control board is OPEN
  4. Maybe you have a pump failure
  5. Maybe there is blockage on the input or output.
That is the best I can do for you with limited information. Let me know if any of this helps.

Good Luck!

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:24 PM, francesringley@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill. Its a 24V unit. Here is what I have done, Following the instructions from the forum, I replaced the end caps and reassembled everything as before. The panel is in the galley so I went to switch it on just like I do every time I use it. It started to pump but then cut out. I tried to prime it using the fresh water rinse but it still would not pump. I disconnected wires, cleaned up the connections and reconnected. I disconnected the hose from the low pressure pump to the first membrane to ensure water was getting through and it is. I have tried permutations and combinations of opening/closing the high pressure regulator, opening/closing the valve that releases test water to a hose near the sink, opening/closing the fresh water rinse, turning on/off the unit itself. When I switch the unit on, I get the green light about good water quality but that is it.


Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gray Water Bilge Pump Switch

rossirossix4
 

I received one from Amel less than a year ago.  It was €70 but included the bracket that mounts it to the tube, the extension, the strings, etc. Maud handled the transaction.

Bob, KAIMI SM 429


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Solar. Wind gem and arch

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

What kind of solid data do you want Bill? We might be able to provide you with it.

A wind generator can not replace solar panels, it is a complement.

Regards 
Annsofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM 232, 1998


Skickat från min iPad

28 feb. 2016 kl. 23:55 skrev 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Wind generators may be a good thing with winds of 20kts, but Have you looked at historical data...there is not anyplace in the world that I would cruise to that has a constant 20kts of wind.

In fact, there is no solid data that wind generators are as good of value in terms of KwH/$ as solar. I have tried for 10 years to get solid data from anyone who has wind generators. I have not received one bit of solid historical data in order to build a comparison/value model for wind, solar and diesel generator. It seems to me the best that I get is something like "last weekend when the wind was blowing and it was cloudy, my wind generator provided all I needed. OTH, there is solid historical data on solar. BTW, I did build a a comparison/value model for solar vs diesel generator...and the results are amazing...at least to me.

If money is no object buy both; if you are like me, you will choose one of them...choose wisely.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 8:02 PM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Kent.  Usually once a day unless there us no no sun or wind With good wind 20 knots plus not at all.
We have just had a month on the boat cruising.  We may have used it 10 times in total ,if that. However we did a bit of motoring so that charged too 
 Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 Ocean pearl 



Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:29/02/2016 03:01 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Solar. Wind gem and arch

Thanks for the feedback.  Danny, with your solar and wind, how often do you run your generator while cruising?
Thanks
Kent


On Feb 28, 2016, at 2:23 AM, simms simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi Kent
Because I wasn't prepared go cross oceans relying on diesel power for l my charging.  So we put a wind
Generator and solar tpanels on. Be a use of shortage of time  and cash we put two 130 watt panels on the port rail beside the aft cabin.  These swivel.readily when docking  I promised myself  to do something else if they were a nuisance there
They have not been and I have no reason to change.
We put a 350 watt super wind self feathering wind Gen on top of the mizzen.  Perfect,