Date   

LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 


Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

J Wagamon <jwagam@...>
 

Have you looked at Beta? If not, you should speak to Stanley at the US facility. He is very knowledgable. I know they also have a rebuilt engine coming available in December.

Good Luck
Jay
Mango


On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

karkauai
 

I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: "Must Have" spares and preparations AND NEW RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

---In amelyachtowners@..., <eamonn.washington@...> wrote :
After your reply John I sent a mail to Amel for a quote to replace the standing rigging in Hyères...... 
............ Many thanks Eamonn  SM #151 Travel Bug
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Eamonn, 
You may be interested in my post from last year in reply to Anne and John regarding new rigging.  The SM rigging will, of course, be a bit more than for our SN but I suspect you will pay much less by dealing directly with Amel's supplier ACMO.  It would be very interesting if you were to let us all know how much Amel quotes vs how much ACMO quotes, if you do this.
Here is the old posting:
"Hi Anne and John,
Those were my posts on using ACMO (not ARCO) - stands for ACcastillage MOderne and they are the rigging supplier for Amel.  Their web site is acmo dot fr and the contact info is there.  

We dealt with Sylvie Gazzurelli who is most helpful - her email is sylvie at acmo dot fr. She has all the original Amel specs for all the models.  For our Santorin the cost was 4707 Euros plus 145 Euros for shipping to Monfalcone, Italy - total 4852 Euros.  Because we used a non-EU (American) credit card, ACMO determined they did not have to charge VAT. We did this in 2010 when our rigging was 18 years old and we had an aft lower mizzen stay break at the lower swage, which seemed a clarion call for replacement.

We saved about 1000 Euro by specifying "standard" (right handed) threads on the turnbuckles, rather than Amel's original left-handed threads (can't imagine why they did that). The order included replacing all 19 stays complete with turnbuckles and new clevis pins. Also included was the "special" short turnbuckle screw on the headstay and one mizzen back stay with isolators for our SSB antenna. The triactic is fixed length with no turnbuckles (aka bottle screws).

It took us about a week to do the installation ourselves at our winter slip in Monfalcone - Katherine hoisted me in the bosun's chair and I'd remove the old stays one or two at a time, then fasten the new ones. Tedious but not too difficult and we only worked half days.

Cheers,
Craig Briggs
s/v Sangaris, Santorin #68


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

It is on my boat.  If Amel doesn't ground it there, where do they ground it?
Kent 


On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:36 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There is previous post on this with a reply from Olivier....

In the SM series the AC ground is not connected to the generator ground....but in the '55 it is...
It seems for electrical safety the AC ground should be connected to the generator at the point the AC leaves the generator, but for some reason known only to Amel, it isn't in our boats.
 Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Thinking about a fine Oyster?

Alan Leslie
 

This is unbelievable for a company with the reputation that Oyster has...shocking....
I was considering Oysters before I bought Elyse...I'm glad I didn't go down that route.
It seems the keel stub had no real support at all, the laminates were dry and not bonded, but the worst is the mode of construction which emanates from the design - what were they thinking...
and concrete blocks in the bow !! Its hard to believe a company like Oyster would do that...but then look at Volkswagen !
So pleased I have an AMEL !
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

Alan Leslie
 

There is previous post on this with a reply from Olivier....
In the SM series the AC ground is not connected to the generator ground....but in the '55 it is...
It seems for electrical safety the AC ground should be connected to the generator at the point the AC leaves the generator, but for some reason known only to Amel, it isn't in our boats.
 Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Thinking about a fine Oyster?

yahoogroups@...
 

You should read this article and look at the absolutely appalling construction. including the use of poured concrete and concrete block for  ballast.And look at the wire conduit.

This is shameful for even a Hunter.

ANOTHER MAJOR KEEL FAILURE: What Really Happened to Polina Star III?

 

Bill

BeBe 387


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

eric freedman
 

Kent,

I have to get to Colombia and check the transfer switch, generator, and the Calpeda pump.

I will then have an Idea as to what Amel did.

In Ny now.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 10:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Where is the AC ground wire connected at the generator, Eric?  

 

I spoke to an ONAN service guy who says that the 220AC output cable has to be connected to the housing on the generator (the box just to the port side of the bigger box with the breakers and stop switch).

 

He said the only way to isolate the 220AC ground from the bonding system is to remove the bonding cable from the generator.  There is a small pencil zinc in the heat exchanger that he says is enough to protect the generator.

 

So, is your generator connected to the bonding system?

 

Thanks for your thoughts Jamie. It's going to take me a while to digest that.

 

My brain hurts.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy


On Dec 3, 2015, at 1:05 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

My generator has an isolated ground and the negative is not connected to the start battery except when the generator is starting.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Kent, again thanks for the kind words about my engine failure on Phantom. Just to confirm my comments, I am not suggesting the exhaust design was necessarily at fault, but in my case the layout of the system certainly could have exacerbated my engine failure. In any event, if I can take steps to improve with my new engine, I will.

 

If I can comment on your AC findings, I understand that Amel deliberately does not connect the AC earth to the DC bonding grid. That, of course, is totally opposite from US regulations that mandate that connection for safety, a practice to which I fully subscribe as an electrical engineer. There is also the absolute "no-no" of connecting AC neutral to earth anywhere on the boat unless you have an isolation transformer.

 

The exception, however, is at a separately-derived power source. For a shore power connection, the neutral-to-earth bond would be at the shore power source in the marina. For a generator, it would be at the generator. When the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is in shore power mode, it ensures the neutral is connected only to the shore power feeder and not the boat. It also ensures the grounding systems are not interconnected, since the neutral is not connected to the boat systems. Further the generator case will be connected to earth, since the battery negative for the starter lands on the frame. When the ATS is switched to generator, the neutral "should" be tied to AC earth, since it "should" be bonded to PE at the generator. You should verify the connection between the blue neutral wire and the green/yellow PE. If it is connected you are safe; if not, and you had a fault in an AC circuit to earth, the neutral would not have a return path to its source and the AC current would try to find an alternate path - not good.

 

Many don't I know, but technically an inverter is a separately-derived power source, and the neutral there should be tied to earth as well. The problem is that most inverters also function in pass-through mode.

 

I hope that helps. Let me know what you find.

 

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2015 7:42 AM, "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

eric freedman
 

Jamie,

If the engine is No good why don’t you take a few wrenches to the engine and take the head off and see what the valves and pistons look like. You can’t break something that is already broken.

 

If a new block is needed- can you buy a short block?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 2:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

No one could do a compression check, since the folks I have to deal with here do not have the Volvo test equipment needed. I would have had to buy it all or bring in some firm from another state.

Go figure that.

 

Also, no I did not take off the head. That is a lot of work and not worth the expense if I am planning a new engine at this point. There is no point throwing more investigation money at this engine. No one has been able to fix it or (with partial dis-assembly) absolutely identify the problem. Having completely ruled out the electrical and fuel systems (my good mechanic now demonstrated that they all are working correctly), the bottom line is that it is clearly not a simple problem. I concur with his assessment after I saw the salt crystals in the exhaust near the turbo

Thanks,

Jamie

 

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2015 1:27 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Jamie,

what a nightmare you have had. We all feel for you. The valve and cylinder damage suspected would certainly affect the compression. Did you ever manage to get someone to do a full compression test.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 


From: "ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, 3 December 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

Trevor, trust me I am well aware of the risks of cranking a no-start engine with sea water being drawn in. I was very careful to avoid water buildup in the muffler and exhaust at all times.

 

The engine would not start a week after it had run for 4 days, and that could not have been caused by excessive cranking. I did not try to start it in the interim, and when I did I carefully drained the muffler or shut off the raw water intake valve after a few attempts to get it going. And I kept draining it periodically as we tested and tested. If it had filled up with water during that time, the engine would have seized. I have seen engines do that before, and it is almost like having a dead battery. The engine will not even turn over. In my case here, the engine has always cranked just fine but never even coughed after the run up from Florida in June.

 

My service guy suggested that it could have been a long time in the making (possibly from weak compression) and it could have gotten worse during the trip up from Florida. I ran it fairly hard during the trip after the sea trial problems, which obviously would have increased exhaust back pressure and reduced the exhaust efficiency at higher RPM, especially if the engine compression was not up to par. He suggested, as well, that sitting for a week with any sort of "backwash" water (even heavy vapor if you will) could have caused it to fail. Again, short of tearing the engine down, he cannot say for sure. But we have ruled out every other possibility we can think of, including all those who have offered suggestions and lent support from the group. I am out of options now. There is nothing else to test or try.

 

I do not want to de-Amel my boat (I have been trying to keep to the design philosophy Henri set in place in all that I do), but I do need to ensure that water does not get into the engine in the future. If that means a bit of rework of the exhaust as I install my new engine, well then I need to do that for my boat. No one and no engineers are correct all the time. And, as you know, each boat is different in how it behaves. I have to deal with what I have. A new engine is expensive but clearly not an undesirable thing..............



Thanks for the support.

Jamie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

eric freedman
 

Jamie,

If you look at the back of the generator you will see the starter solenoid. It has a floating ground as does the alternator.

It closes to connect the battery ground to the starter motor and opens as soon as the engine starts.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 2:36 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Eric, I guess I don't understand what you mean. How does the negative get disconnected after the generator starts? It would have to be connected in advance to get the starter to even work. Most negatives go directly to the generator frame which is integral with the starter.

Can you help me here?

Jamie

s/v Phantom

 

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2015 1:06 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi,

My generator has an isolated ground and the negative is not connected to the start battery except when the generator is starting.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Kent, again thanks for the kind words about my engine failure on Phantom. Just to confirm my comments, I am not suggesting the exhaust design was necessarily at fault, but in my case the layout of the system certainly could have exacerbated my engine failure. In any event, if I can take steps to improve with my new engine, I will.

 

If I can comment on your AC findings, I understand that Amel deliberately does not connect the AC earth to the DC bonding grid. That, of course, is totally opposite from US regulations that mandate that connection for safety, a practice to which I fully subscribe as an electrical engineer. There is also the absolute "no-no" of connecting AC neutral to earth anywhere on the boat unless you have an isolation transformer.

 

The exception, however, is at a separately-derived power source. For a shore power connection, the neutral-to-earth bond would be at the shore power source in the marina. For a generator, it would be at the generator. When the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is in shore power mode, it ensures the neutral is connected only to the shore power feeder and not the boat. It also ensures the grounding systems are not interconnected, since the neutral is not connected to the boat systems. Further the generator case will be connected to earth, since the battery negative for the starter lands on the frame. When the ATS is switched to generator, the neutral "should" be tied to AC earth, since it "should" be bonded to PE at the generator. You should verify the connection between the blue neutral wire and the green/yellow PE. If it is connected you are safe; if not, and you had a fault in an AC circuit to earth, the neutral would not have a return path to its source and the AC current would try to find an alternate path - not good.

 

Many don't I know, but technically an inverter is a separately-derived power source, and the neutral there should be tied to earth as well. The problem is that most inverters also function in pass-through mode.

 

I hope that helps. Let me know what you find.

 

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2015 7:42 AM, "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy

 

 


world arc

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Jamie,

          If you would like a critique of my ten day experience with The World Arc send me a private email to trevorlusty at hotmail dot com.

Regards,

Trevor


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

karkauai
 

I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

I posted a schematic of the isolated ground for the engine in the files section, Jamie.
Kent


On Dec 3, 2015, at 6:15 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Well, actually I do understand the concept of isolated ground, but I was not aware that Amel would go to the trouble of installing relays to break the DC wiring to the engine when it is shut down. There is no mention of that in any of my Amel schematics, but since I am new to this boat I still have things to learn.

And by the way, I hope I did not promote US standards as if they should be the world standard. I wish the US were on the metric system, for example, but please don't let me rant on about that one. I also wish we used single phase 230 volts like most of the rest of the world (at least Europe). There are many regs in the US that I disagree with, but electrical safety is a fairly strong one. I can see the benefit of an isolated ground from the perspective of galvanic corrosion control, but I still question the overall safety of such systems, particularly when it comes to AC earth connections.

Anyway, I have not yet selected the engine brand I will install. The easiest solution (but least desirable based on my recent disaster) would be a replacement Volvo Penta D3-110, third generation of course. That would maintain the existing systems as they are, including the isolated ground. Any other brand would have to be carefully evaluated to ensure total compatibility and to maintain the Amel way of life.

I will go check on that isolated ground everyone is talking about. Very interesting indeed.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 2:56 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Jamie,

Isolated ground is probably not something that you learned in electrical engineering school, but it is an important thing to understand in a marine environment. Amel uses an isolated ground system where the DC negative IS NOT part of the engine frame. You will notice this with the temperature sensor and other sensors. Most marine engines have a single wire going to the temperature sensor because the engine is ground. Your Amel has an isolated ground and there will be two wires. The only time the DC negative is connected to the starter is when the start switch is turned to start.

Your alternators will also be isolated ground alternators. I know a Bavaria owner who failed to install the correctly grounded alternator and his entire saildrive became a sacrificial chunk of metal.

As to what ABYC thinks is important, I am not so sure. Just because they are American, does not mean they are right. I would argue a number of their publications, but that is for another day and another subject.

Good luck with your new engine...did you state what engine you plan to use?

Bill
BeBe 387



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:35 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Eric, I guess I don't understand what you mean. How does the negative get disconnected after the generator starts? It would have to be connected in advance to get the starter to even work. Most negatives go directly to the generator frame which is integral with the starter.
Can you help me here?
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 1:06 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hi,
My generator has an isolated ground and the negative is not connected to the start battery except when the generator is starting.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
 
 
Kent, again thanks for the kind words about my engine failure on Phantom. Just to confirm my comments, I am not suggesting the exhaust des ign was necessarily at fault, but in my case the layout of the system certainly could have exacerbated my engine failure. In any event, if I can take steps to improve with my new engine, I will.
 
If I can comment on your AC findings, I understand that Amel deliberately does not connect the AC earth to the DC bonding grid. That, of course, is totally opposite from US regulations that mandate that connection for safety, a practice to which I fully subscribe as an electrical engineer. There is also the absolute "no-no" of connecting AC neutral to earth anywhere on the boat unless you have an isolation transformer.
 
The exception, however, is at a separately-derived power source. For a shore power connection, the neutral-to-earth bond would be at the shore power source in the marina. For a generator, it would be at the generator. When the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is in shore power mode, it ensures the neutral is connected only to the shore power feeder and not the boat. It also ensures the grounding systems are not interconnected, since the neutral is not connected to the boat systems. Further the generator case will be connected to earth, since the battery negative for the starter lands on the frame. When the ATS is switched to generator, the neutral "should" be tied to AC earth, since it "should" be bonded to PE at the generator. You should verify the connection between the blue neutral wire and the green/yellow PE. If it is connected you are safe; if not, and you had a fault in an AC circuit to earth, the neutral would not have a return path to its source and the AC current would try to find an alternate path - not good.
 
Many don't I know, but technically an inverter is a separately-derived power source, and the neutral there should be tied to earth as well. The problem is that most inverters also function in pass-through mode.
 
I hope that helps. Let me know what you find.
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54
 
 
On T hursday, December 3, 2015 7:42 AM, "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy
 






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

I have glo plugs on my Yanmar.  The negative connection is also made when the glo plugs are activated.  It also makes the connection when the stop solenoid is activated.
Kent 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 2:56 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jamie,

Isolated ground is probably not something that you learned in electrical engineering school, but it is an important thing to understand in a marine environment. Amel uses an isolated ground system where the DC negative IS NOT part of the engine frame. You will notice this with the temperature sensor and other sensors. Most marine engines have a single wire going to the temperature sensor because the engine is ground. Your Amel has an isolated ground and there will be two wires. The only time the DC negative is connected to the starter is when the start switch is turned to start.

Your alternators will also be isolated ground alternators. I know a Bavaria owner who failed to install the correctly grounded alternator and his entire saildrive became a sacrificial chunk of metal.

As to what ABYC thinks is important, I am not so sure. Just because they are American, does not mean they are right. I would argue a number of their publications, but that is for another day and another subject.

Good luck with your new engine...did you state what engine you plan to use?

Bill
BeBe 387



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:35 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Eric, I guess I don't understand what you mean. How does the negative get disconnected after the generator starts? It would have to be connected in advance to get the starter to even work. Most negatives go directly to the generator frame which is integral with the starter.
Can you help me here?
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 1:06 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hi,
My generator has an isolated ground and the negative is not connected to the start battery except when the generator is starting.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
 
 
Kent, again thanks for the kind words about my engine failure on Phantom. Just to confirm my comments, I am not suggesting the exhaust des ign was necessarily at fault, but in my case the layout of the system certainly could have exacerbated my engine failure. In any event, if I can take steps to improve with my new engine, I will.
 
If I can comment on your AC findings, I understand that Amel deliberately does not connect the AC earth to the DC bonding grid. That, of course, is totally opposite from US regulations that mandate that connection for safety, a practice to which I fully subscribe as an electrical engineer. There is also the absolute "no-no" of connecting AC neutral to earth anywhere on the boat unless you have an isolation transformer.
 
The exception, however, is at a separately-derived power source. For a shore power connection, the neutral-to-earth bond would be at the shore power source in the marina. For a generator, it would be at the generator. When the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is in shore power mode, it ensures the neutral is connected only to the shore power feeder and not the boat. It also ensures the grounding systems are not interconnected, since the neutral is not connected to the boat systems. Further the generator case will be connected to earth, since the battery negative for the starter lands on the frame. When the ATS is switched to generator, the neutral "should" be tied to AC earth, since it "should" be bonded to PE at the generator. You should verify the connection between the blue neutral wire and the green/yellow PE. If it is connected you are safe; if not, and you had a fault in an AC circuit to earth, the neutral would not have a return path to its source and the AC current would try to find an alternate path - not good.
 
Many don't I know, but technically an inverter is a separately-derived power source, and the neutral there should be tied to earth as well. The problem is that most inverters also function in pass-through mode.
 
I hope that helps. Let me know what you find.
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54
 
 
On T hursday, December 3, 2015 7:42 AM, "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy
 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

That isolates the engine's 12vDC system from the bonding system, but doesn't isolate it from the 220VAC system.
Kent 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 2:50 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Wow, I have never seen that before.
Thanks



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 2:47 PM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
There's a solenoid (relay) in the positive feed to the starter motor and also one in the negative feed. They both close when the start button is activated and for that brief time the battery negative is connected to the generator frame, when the generator starts and the start button is released, the realys open and the negative is isolated from the generator frame.
Its the same system on the main engine.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

Where is the AC ground wire connected at the generator, Eric?  

I spoke to an ONAN service guy who says that the 220AC output cable has to be connected to the housing on the generator (the box just to the port side of the bigger box with the breakers and stop switch).

He said the only way to isolate the 220AC ground from the bonding system is to remove the bonding cable from the generator.  There is a small pencil zinc in the heat exchanger that he says is enough to protect the generator.

So, is your generator connected to the bonding system?

Thanks for your thoughts Jamie. It's going to take me a while to digest that.

My brain hurts.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Dec 3, 2015, at 1:05 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

My generator has an isolated ground and the negative is not connected to the start battery except when the generator is starting.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 9:41 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Kent, again thanks for the kind words about my engine failure on Phantom. Just to confirm my comments, I am not suggesting the exhaust design was necessarily at fault, but in my case the layout of the system certainly could have exacerbated my engine failure. In any event, if I can take steps to improve with my new engine, I will.

 

If I can comment on your AC findings, I understand that Amel deliberately does not connect the AC earth to the DC bonding grid. That, of course, is totally opposite from US regulations that mandate that connection for safety, a practice to which I fully subscribe as an electrical engineer. There is also the absolute "no-no" of connecting AC neutral to earth anywhere on the boat unless you have an isolation transformer.

 

The exception, however, is at a separately-derived power source. For a shore power connection, the neutral-to-earth bond would be at the shore power source in the marina. For a generator, it would be at the generator. When the automatic transfer switch (ATS) is in shore power mode, it ensures the neutral is connected only to the shore power feeder and not the boat. It also ensures the grounding systems are not interconnected, since the neutral is not connected to the boat systems. Further the generator case will be connected to earth, since the battery negative for the starter lands on the frame. When the ATS is switched to generator, the neutral "should" be tied to AC earth, since it "should" be bonded to PE at the generator. You should verify the connection between the blue neutral wire and the green/yellow PE. If it is connected you are safe; if not, and you had a fault in an AC circuit to earth, the neutral would not have a return path to its source and the AC current would try to find an alternate path - not good.

 

Many don't I know, but technically an inverter is a separately-derived power source, and the neutral there should be tied to earth as well. The problem is that most inverters also function in pass-through mode.

 

I hope that helps. Let me know what you find.

 

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Thursday, December 3, 2015 7:42 AM, "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy

 


Re: "Must Have" spares and preparations

jjjk12s@...
 

Eamonn,

The nearby Navy Service in Port St Louis is probably cheaper hardstand but less services than Port Napoleon. I'm a bit out of date - I was there 6 years ago. Dusty from the winds but vast hardstand area.

Regards
John


Re : [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: "Must Have" spares and preparations

Juan de Zulueta
 

Eamon,

I am interested by th standing rigging proposal you might receive since my boat is from 1990 I might need to do it...
I am sure if AMEL hyeres will make a good price.

Le jeudi, décembre 3, 2015, 22:40, eamonn.washington@... [amelyachtowners] a écrit :

 

After your reply John I sent a mail to Amel for a quote to replace the standing rigging in Hyères. 

I checked out Port St Louis du Rhone, http://www.port-napoleon.com/gb/port.html,reasonable price for storing on land.

I'll look into Navionics on an iPad.

Thanks for the list Juan. I'll incorporate it into an excel together with all other sources and share it in this forum in a year or so; I'll try to make it bi-lingual.  By the way I also have a dive ladder installed; I copied yours.

Many thanks
Eamonn

SM #151 Travel Bug