Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

Beaute Olivier
 

Hi Kent,

the 24V pumps cases must be connected to the ground. There is only one ground aboard (also called equipotential circuit): all the yellow/green wires, where the zincs are connected, where every piece of metal in touch with seawater should be connected and where the 220V earth is connected when you're plugged to shore power.
Don't connect the 24V negative (or the 12V negative) to any equipment's casing/box.
The galvanic isolator will prevent ONLY the stray currents coming through the shore power cord to affect your vessel.

Sometimes, an equipment with a motor (with carbon brushes) creates a leak because the carbon dust (from woen carbon brushes) is making a connection between the 24V positive (of the motor) and the ground (motor's casing) or between the 24V negative (of the motor) and the ground. This is when you could have a damage from electrolytic corrosion (corrosion created by power). Galvanic corrosion is not created by a source of power but by the difference of potential between different metals  that touch each other and are in a conductive solution (seawater).
A quick corrosion of any metal (even your zincs) is most probably caused by a power leakage. A slow corrosion is, most of the time, the result of galvanic corrosion.

Don't give up!!!

Olivier





On Friday, December 4, 2015 10:27 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Wow,
That seems like it leaves Amel folks at risk of 220 AC shock.  I just spoke to an engineer at Newmar (they make my galvanic isolator).  He said if your AC~ ground is not connected to the corrosion bonding system, the galvanic isolator is doing nothing!

If as on my boat, the 220 ground 
wire on the generator output is connected to the generator housing, then the galvanic isolator is working and I should be protected on the boat from electrical faults and from stray shore power current.

What is the down side of connecting the 220 ground to the corrosion bonding system?

As an aside, I have discovered that the head macerator pumps and the anchor wash pump are grounded to my corrosion bonding system.  That's DC connection and could cause electrolysis.  Am I correct in saying that the cases should be connected to battery negative instead?  That's going to be a royal PITA to run wires from one end of the boat to the other.  Has anyone done that?

It seems that the previous owner converted much of my electrical system to ABYC standards.

Groan!!!
Kent
SM243
Kristy 




On Dec 4, 2015, at 2:46 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
This is Olivier's previous post on this subject :

Hello everybody,

I'm wondering why some SMs have passed the EWOF and some haven't...
However, the generator neutral has never been connected to the ground on SMs and AMEL 54.

When the generator is running and feeding the vessel, the only way for the ground fault breaker to trip in case of a leak Live wire touching the body of a 230V equipment) is to have the neutral connected to the ground circuit (yellow/green wires network).
If some of you decide to have the generator neutral connected to the ground, they must make sure that they do it at the generator output, and, for instance, not at the main breaker in galley, or at the automatic solenoid switch output (in engine room). Someone in this thread wrote that it is mentioned in the ONAN manual.

It is not clear why AMEL decided not to connect the neutral and the ground on these vessels.
They are now doing it on the AMEL 55 and 64.
The rule ISO 13297 concerning 230V AC installations in leisure vessels states that the neutral from an inside generator (diesel generator or 24V/230V inverter) should be connected to the vessel's ground equipotential circuit. I guess the recommendations from ABYC are the same about that.

To be electrocuted while the generator is running, and on a vessel where the generator neutral is not connected with the ground, you would need to be wet, with wet feet touching a conductive part of the vessel that would also be in touch with the neutral of the generator AND there should be a Live wire touching the metal body of a 230V appliance. That can however happen when the vessel is flooded with seawater and you run the generator.
The risk of being electrocuted on an AMEL vessel is probably small, because the bottom of the boat is (should be) rather dry.
You can also routinely check (or have checked) the isolation of the 230V appliances (is there a connection between the Live of the appliance's cable and the metal body of the appliance? The answer should be: resistance infinite).

For those who are not familiar with electricity, I simply say that the risk is much bigger on land where the place where you put your feet is sometimes very conductive (wet feet on concrete or tiled floor).

I'm sure that the above will raise hundreds of questions, so, feel free to ask...

Have a good day and don't flood your AMEL...

Olivier




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Before Jamie commits himself to spending another fortune changing his engine, could we marshall the collective brains and wisdom on this forum to figure out if he is going the right way.
Most SM owners are Yanmar fans - how could you not be - Amel know this, yet they deliberately chose to install Volvo in the 54. Every single 54 owner that I have met has told me the same to salient points. There is less stowage in a 54 than a SM and they really didn't want a Volvo but they had to take it with the boat Amel bring out the 55 and what are the engine choices Styer or Volvo?? When I asked Amel directly about this, they said that there was not a suitable engine in the Yanmar range for the 54 yet I stood on board a 54 in La Rochelle and saw with my own eyes a Volkswagen diesel engine in a 54!
My own view is that Yanmar would be first choice every time, but in Jamie's case especially after the nightmare Kent has gone through, will the engine align,is it too high, will the gearbox work even with an adaptor plate on the bell housing, there is also a unique Amel damper plate on the Yanmar flywheel, is the shaft the same length and will the brake be in the same place?
I believe that Jamie understands all that is involved with rewiring etc. but how will this effect the long term value of the boat, especially as he will be at the bottom of a very deep financial hole at the end of this.
This must be one of the most discussed topics ever on the forum and I feel we all owe it to him to chip in our two cents worth.

Trevor
Seafever



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

Wow,
That seems like it leaves Amel folks at risk of 220 AC shock.  I just spoke to an engineer at Newmar (they make my galvanic isolator).  He said if your AC~ ground is not connected to the corrosion bonding system, the galvanic isolator is doing nothing!

If as on my boat, the 220 ground 
wire on the generator output is connected to the generator housing, then the galvanic isolator is working and I should be protected on the boat from electrical faults and from stray shore power current.

What is the down side of connecting the 220 ground to the corrosion bonding system?

As an aside, I have discovered that the head macerator pumps and the anchor wash pump are grounded to my corrosion bonding system.  That's DC connection and could cause electrolysis.  Am I correct in saying that the cases should be connected to battery negative instead?  That's going to be a royal PITA to run wires from one end of the boat to the other.  Has anyone done that?

It seems that the previous owner converted much of my electrical system to ABYC standards.

Groan!!!
Kent
SM243
Kristy 




On Dec 4, 2015, at 2:46 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

This is Olivier's previous post on this subject :


Hello everybody,

I'm wondering why some SMs have passed the EWOF and some haven't...
However, the generator neutral has never been connected to the ground on SMs and AMEL 54.

When the generator is running and feeding the vessel, the only way for the ground fault breaker to trip in case of a leak Live wire touching the body of a 230V equipment) is to have the neutral connected to the ground circuit (yellow/green wires network).
If some of you decide to have the generator neutral connected to the ground, they must make sure that they do it at the generator output, and, for instance, not at the main breaker in galley, or at the automatic solenoid switch output (in engine room). Someone in this thread wrote that it is mentioned in the ONAN manual.

It is not clear why AMEL decided not to connect the neutral and the ground on these vessels.
They are now doing it on the AMEL 55 and 64.
The rule ISO 13297 concerning 230V AC installations in leisure vessels states that the neutral from an inside generator (diesel generator or 24V/230V inverter) should be connected to the vessel's ground equipotential circuit. I guess the recommendations from ABYC are the same about that.

To be electrocuted while the generator is running, and on a vessel where the generator neutral is not connected with the ground, you would need to be wet, with wet feet touching a conductive part of the vessel that would also be in touch with the neutral of the generator AND there should be a Live wire touching the metal body of a 230V appliance. That can however happen when the vessel is flooded with seawater and you run the generator.
The risk of being electrocuted on an AMEL vessel is probably small, because the bottom of the boat is (should be) rather dry.
You can also routinely check (or have checked) the isolation of the 230V appliances (is there a connection between the Live of the appliance's cable and the metal body of the appliance? The answer should be: resistance infinite).

For those who are not familiar with electricity, I simply say that the risk is much bigger on land where the place where you put your feet is sometimes very conductive (wet feet on concrete or tiled floor).

I'm sure that the above will raise hundreds of questions, so, feel free to ask...

Have a good day and don't flood your AMEL...

Olivier


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

karkauai
 

It was a 1999 TMD22 78HP.  It had abou 5000 hrs on it. I struggled for a couple of years spending thousands on mechanics trying to figure out why I couldn't get over 2000 rpm.  Finally got the serial no off the Autoprop and was told by Bruntons that it was what they recommend for the Amel with 100HP Yanmar.  I repitched my spare prop which I was also told by a good prop shop was over pitched for my motor.  After reducing the pitch to what they recommended, she got right up to 3000rpm.  For a season everything was great, then suddenly lost power and saw oil in the water at exhaust...cracked block was the diagnosis by the Caribbean Volvo guru at Marine Mechanical in Fajardo.
As an aside, when I told him my plans of world cruising, he recommended I replace it with a Yanmar.
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 4, 2015, at 1:54 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, what size and vintage was your Volvo? How many hours on it?
What failed that made you have to replace it?
Thanks,
Jamie



On Friday, December 4, 2015 9:15 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)











Re: LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Ralph Caruso
 

I have a Yanmar 75 on my Jeanneau 43 (I follow the Amel list in the hope of one day buying one), and I had this same problem when I first bought the boat.  I have a fixed prop, but the problem turned out to be a clogged fuel pickup tube.  The boat had not been used very much when I bought it (100 hrs at 3 years old), and the dealer who sold the boat to me eventually found that the pickup tube was full of plastic shavings.  Likely left behind when the plastic fuel tank had the fitting installed originally.

You have checked all the obvious source of blockage, and if you find that your prop is not too fouled, then I would recommend pulling the fuel pickup tube.  Some boats have a rubber hose and a screen installed on these pickups (for regulatory reasons), and the screens are known to accumulate debris.

Ralph Caruso
s/v Petillant  Jeanneau SO43DS


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

Alan Leslie
 

This is Olivier's previous post on this subject :

Hello everybody,

I'm wondering why some SMs have passed the EWOF and some haven't...
However, the generator neutral has never been connected to the ground on SMs and AMEL 54.

When the generator is running and feeding the vessel, the only way for the ground fault breaker to trip in case of a leak Live wire touching the body of a 230V equipment) is to have the neutral connected to the ground circuit (yellow/green wires network).
If some of you decide to have the generator neutral connected to the ground, they must make sure that they do it at the generator output, and, for instance, not at the main breaker in galley, or at the automatic solenoid switch output (in engine room). Someone in this thread wrote that it is mentioned in the ONAN manual.

It is not clear why AMEL decided not to connect the neutral and the ground on these vessels.
They are now doing it on the AMEL 55 and 64.
The rule ISO 13297 concerning 230V AC installations in leisure vessels states that the neutral from an inside generator (diesel generator or 24V/230V inverter) should be connected to the vessel's ground equipotential circuit. I guess the recommendations from ABYC are the same about that.

To be electrocuted while the generator is running, and on a vessel where the generator neutral is not connected with the ground, you would need to be wet, with wet feet touching a conductive part of the vessel that would also be in touch with the neutral of the generator AND there should be a Live wire touching the metal body of a 230V appliance. That can however happen when the vessel is flooded with seawater and you run the generator.
The risk of being electrocuted on an AMEL vessel is probably small, because the bottom of the boat is (should be) rather dry.
You can also routinely check (or have checked) the isolation of the 230V appliances (is there a connection between the Live of the appliance's cable and the metal body of the appliance? The answer should be: resistance infinite).

For those who are not familiar with electricity, I simply say that the risk is much bigger on land where the place where you put your feet is sometimes very conductive (wet feet on concrete or tiled floor).

I'm sure that the above will raise hundreds of questions, so, feel free to ask...

Have a good day and don't flood your AMEL...

Olivier


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

John,

Good call on the thermostat.

If you do not know how to check it, Google it for lots of information and videos.

Bill
BeBe 387
Gran Canaria

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:21 PM, jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ben,

 

For the RPM - something super simple to check first - have you disconnected the throttle cable and checked the revs by directly operating the lever on the fuel pump? Without any other symptoms maybe your throttle cable has gradually become badly adjusted.

The cold running might be due to someone having removed the thermostat or the thermostat not working,

 

John Maramu #91 Popeye (with a Yanmar 75)



Re: LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

jjjk12s@...
 

Ben,

 

For the RPM - something super simple to check first - have you disconnected the throttle cable and checked the revs by directly operating the lever on the fuel pump? Without any other symptoms maybe your throttle cable has gradually become badly adjusted.

The cold running might be due to someone having removed the thermostat or the thermostat not working,

 

John Maramu #91 Popeye (with a Yanmar 75)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Does Beta have a 110 HP+ range engine?
Jamie



On Friday, December 4, 2015 11:06 AM, "J Wagamon jwagam@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Have you looked at Beta? If not, you should speak to Stanley at the US facility. He is very knowledgable. I know they also have a rebuilt engine coming available in December.

Good Luck
Jay
Mango


On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Kent, what size and vintage was your Volvo? How many hours on it?
What failed that made you have to replace it?
Thanks,
Jamie



On Friday, December 4, 2015 9:15 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)











Re: LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Ben, everything you describe points to a dirty prop and hull. Heavy marine growth particularly on the prop can virtually stop engine. Does it rev freely when in neutral? 
The correct running temp. is 80C around 175 F easily checked with a laser temperature reader to confirm validity of your gauge.
Regards,
Trevor Seafever
SM 425 Redline
Mexico
FOR SALE
$295K






---In amelyachtowners@..., <joedoakes66@...> wrote :

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 


Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

The most common low rpm cause with an AutoProp is a dirty/fouled AutoProp.

It does not take much fouling to cause the blade(s) on an AutoProp to dig too deeply in the water causing low RPMSs. When was the last time you or someone else dove and inspected the prop.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 4:09 PM, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 


Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Ben,

I have a Volvo TDM 22 but diesels are diesels…

I encountered these symptoms on another boat… badly crusted propeller…

Other cause might be a faulty turbocharger.  Generally, we tend to baby our engines and this is not good.  I try to run at 80% or more power for 1 hour out of every 24 hrs of engine time.

Third possibility = a collapsed air filter.  BTDT.

Good luck.. at least the trouble shooting should be easy.


Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007
Porto Turistico Marina di Ragusa, Pontoon M15,
97100 Ragusa, Sicily, Italy
+44 7551 211 511
sy.eleuthera@...


On 4 Dec 2015, at 17:09, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 


Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita



Posted by: joedoakes66@...
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)



LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 


Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

J Wagamon <jwagam@...>
 

Have you looked at Beta? If not, you should speak to Stanley at the US facility. He is very knowledgable. I know they also have a rebuilt engine coming available in December.

Good Luck
Jay
Mango


On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

karkauai
 

I got $1200 out of my old Volvo, the guy who put in the new engine sold it for parts and took a 10% commission.
Kent


On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:26 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: "Must Have" spares and preparations AND NEW RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

---In amelyachtowners@..., <eamonn.washington@...> wrote :
After your reply John I sent a mail to Amel for a quote to replace the standing rigging in Hyères...... 
............ Many thanks Eamonn  SM #151 Travel Bug
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Eamonn, 
You may be interested in my post from last year in reply to Anne and John regarding new rigging.  The SM rigging will, of course, be a bit more than for our SN but I suspect you will pay much less by dealing directly with Amel's supplier ACMO.  It would be very interesting if you were to let us all know how much Amel quotes vs how much ACMO quotes, if you do this.
Here is the old posting:
"Hi Anne and John,
Those were my posts on using ACMO (not ARCO) - stands for ACcastillage MOderne and they are the rigging supplier for Amel.  Their web site is acmo dot fr and the contact info is there.  

We dealt with Sylvie Gazzurelli who is most helpful - her email is sylvie at acmo dot fr. She has all the original Amel specs for all the models.  For our Santorin the cost was 4707 Euros plus 145 Euros for shipping to Monfalcone, Italy - total 4852 Euros.  Because we used a non-EU (American) credit card, ACMO determined they did not have to charge VAT. We did this in 2010 when our rigging was 18 years old and we had an aft lower mizzen stay break at the lower swage, which seemed a clarion call for replacement.

We saved about 1000 Euro by specifying "standard" (right handed) threads on the turnbuckles, rather than Amel's original left-handed threads (can't imagine why they did that). The order included replacing all 19 stays complete with turnbuckles and new clevis pins. Also included was the "special" short turnbuckle screw on the headstay and one mizzen back stay with isolators for our SSB antenna. The triactic is fixed length with no turnbuckles (aka bottle screws).

It took us about a week to do the installation ourselves at our winter slip in Monfalcone - Katherine hoisted me in the bosun's chair and I'd remove the old stays one or two at a time, then fasten the new ones. Tedious but not too difficult and we only worked half days.

Cheers,
Craig Briggs
s/v Sangaris, Santorin #68


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Kent, I think you (plus war stories from others) have convinced me to ditch the Volvo. I can fix most anything if I study it long enough, but not this engine. I and many others have tried now for more than 5 months to identify the problem(s). Not being able to get service is beyond frustration. I have been through 7 different "experts" including the local Volvo tech for the area, who just sat in the cockpit for an hour philosophizing. Plus parts are absolutely ridiculously expensive.

I just don't want to take it apart any further to investigate. While it is not the end of the world to take off the head, putting it all back together will be time consuming, even if I do find a simple solution (not likely). Toast or not, I do not want to have to pull out the engine as a bunch of parts. And it would still be a Volvo.........!

I know that a much more mainstream Yanmar will be easier to service and get parts, and it will certainly be less expensive. I had one on my old boat and it was very reliable. Lots of folks who can help if need be. Right now I am waiting for proposal options.

I am on the hard and fortunately I don't have the kind of problem you had with the prop. I have figured out all the various Amel electrical systems (thanks to all who have warned me about the DC isolation relays Amel has installed), and I agree with your advice about the install. I will be here 125% of the time, doing whatever I can to minimize labor, while still ensuring warranty in the future.

Thanks again,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I re powered with a Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP 3 1/2 years ago in Fajardo, Puerto Rico.  The total cost was ~$20K, 6K was installation cost.  I didn't understand about the electrical isolation of the engine, the bonding system wasn't right, and a fault in my charger/inverter conspired to cause severe electrolytic damage to my prop shaft.  That was another $20K.

Make sure you understand the Amel electrical system completely and don't let them work on it while you aren't there!

In spite of all my trials and tribulations, I LOVE "Yanni", my new Yanmar.  I will NEVER own another Volvo!

Kent 
SM243
Kristy 


On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I hope I'm wrong too. Kent has been through it, perhaps he could comment.
Regards
Danny


From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Danny, I sure hope you are wrong about the installation costs. A new Volvo Penta D3-110 engine is about $21K, plus any hoses, fittings, muffler, etc. that might be necessary. I cannot see the install costs being more than about $4K to $5K. While granted a bit lighter, I had a brand new Northern Lights generator (with sound shield) "shoehorned" into a very tight space in my old boat, where there was none before, and the install costs (mounting, alignment, exhaust) were less than $3K (I installed the electrical systems and the raw water intake myself). I am budgeting about $30K for the job - that sure hurts just writing down that number. I could have a new truck for that!

There really is not that much to do if I go with the same engine - not sure if I will though. There is lots of work area in the engine room and access is excellent. A different brand would be more work of course. Plus I plan to ready the old one for haul out in advance.

I recognize that an overhaul would be less, but certainly close to half the cost of a new engine, and I will still have a questionable engine, even if I do get it running. While the parts would be much less, I feel that the labor to overhaul would definitely be more than that to install a new one. If I am going to do this (I feel I have no real options at this point), it needs to be done correctly, so I can rely on the engine if I travel with the World ARC in 2018. At least that is my goal.

I will be getting proposals, so we shall see.

Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:55 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
If  a reputable engine reconditioner was available a full overhaul head and block is likely to be a whole lot less than a new engine. You have already replaced a number of expensive accessory items. Removing the engine for overhaul does not require the removal and replacement of all the electrical, electronic accessories and instrumentation. There is a bundle of these to the panel by the steering station. I have heard it stated that for budgeting purposes the installation costs of a new motor are generally about equal to the cost of the new motor.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl


From: "jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 4 December 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Jamie,
 
Are you sure you want to rule out taking the head off and inspecting/trying to repair it? Even if you still end up getting a new engine your old one will be worth something second hand and the cost of that work may be recoverable eventually, especially if you get the engine running. Maybe you find any damage is limited to the head? I'm not familar with that engine but any chance it has cylinder liners that can be changed?
 
Maybe also consider getting the engine running or putting the new one in and straight away measure the exhaust back pressure. If it is indeed too high then you also have a reference for how much you can reduce it with changed muffler/shorter hose/larger diameter hose. I haven't read all these posts but maybe part of the problem might be the previous owner leaving the boat for extended periods without running the engine and the problem won't re-occur with more regular running and monitoring?
 
Regarding isolation, some engines are permanently grounded and others have a relay that activates via the ignition otherwise isolates them when they're not running.
 
John. (Maramu #91 Yanmar 75HP, plus 2 other boats - 1 MAN 1000HP. 2 Yanmar 650HP)









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

It is on my boat.  If Amel doesn't ground it there, where do they ground it?
Kent 


On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:36 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There is previous post on this with a reply from Olivier....

In the SM series the AC ground is not connected to the generator ground....but in the '55 it is...
It seems for electrical safety the AC ground should be connected to the generator at the point the AC leaves the generator, but for some reason known only to Amel, it isn't in our boats.
 Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Thinking about a fine Oyster?

Alan Leslie
 

This is unbelievable for a company with the reputation that Oyster has...shocking....
I was considering Oysters before I bought Elyse...I'm glad I didn't go down that route.
It seems the keel stub had no real support at all, the laminates were dry and not bonded, but the worst is the mode of construction which emanates from the design - what were they thinking...
and concrete blocks in the bow !! Its hard to believe a company like Oyster would do that...but then look at Volkswagen !
So pleased I have an AMEL !
Alan
Elyse SM437