Date   

Re: Heater and fuel bladder

eric freedman
 

Peter,

I used the stove. The same one we cook on.  I seemed to have survived the use as a heater as I ran it for 1 ½ days

years ago before installing the Espar Heater.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Luke via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2020 7:41 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heater and fuel bladder

 

Eric,

How wise it it to burn propane in an enclosed space albeit with a slightly open companionway?

Propane undergoes combustion reactions in a similar fashion to other alkanes. In the presence of excess oxygen, propane burns to form water and carbon dioxide.
C 3 H 8 + 5 O 2
3 CO 2 + 4 H 2 O + heat 

When insufficient oxygen is present for complete combustion, carbon monoxide and/or soot (carbon) are formed as well:
2 C 3 H 8 + 9 O 2
4 CO 2 + 2 CO + 8 H 2 O + heat

C 3 H 8 + 2 O 2 3 C + 4 H 2 O + heat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Properties_and_reactions

Does your CO2 or CO alarm sound off?

Appears that CO2 and H2O are byproducts - condensation & suffocating gas.

Regards,

Peter

On 7/12/2020 11:13 am, eric freedman wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Kimberlite came with a couple of blowers mounted under the port coming in my port locker.

I was hooked to ductwork to blow fresh air into the aft cabin, the main cabin , and the forward cabin.

It was very easy to hook an Espar heater into this system as the ductwork was in place. I don’t know if the 54 was supplied with this option.

If you do not have these ducts, then I agree that hot water with blowers is the way to go.

 

I think you will find pumping the fuel into the tank a lot easier than using fuel nozzle. You also do not get air into the bladder.

In the interim If you turn on the stove and open the companionway a crack it heats up the main cabin nicely.

Some old timers used to use red clay flower pots over the burners to act as radiators.

 

I am off to Kimberlite on the 12th and will return on the 21st

Dinner?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of JEFFREY KRAUS
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2020 6:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heater and fuel bladder

 

Eric,
I'm not sure what you mean about a forced air system.
It was cold north of the gulf stream. I had a small propane heater for the trip. It worked but it was a temporary solution. 
That bladder looks like the same one I have. I got it from Roberto.
Best Regards,
Jeff 
Spirit Amel 54 #14 
Shinnecock, NY


Re: Heater and fuel bladder

eric freedman
 

Jeff,

I meant to use a pump to fill the tank.

To empty the tank I just stick the hose in the fuel fill and open the valve.

Wednesday sounds good for dinner.

I am heading South Saturday.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

You would know if you had the fresh air system as there is a separate circuit breaker for it.

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of JEFFREY KRAUS
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2020 7:39 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heater and fuel bladder

 

Eric,
I'll look to see if I have those blowers, but I don't believe I have them.
The luxury of linking the heater with the engine and hot water circuits, along with the option of a cockpit heating unit seem to make the hydronic system a great option. 
As far as pumping fuel from the bladder, it doesn't get any easier then a siphon system. 
I'm free thru wednesday. I'm making a scallop trip friday, and we leave 2am. How's Wednesday nite for dinner? Roberto, Charles, Jeff G.? Anyone else?
Jeff


Re: A55 , # 9

Jorg Schambach
 

On my 55#44 I have still original MV 12V/200A gel batteries for service and replaced last year the starting battery MV 90 Ah AGM,

The ventilation exist as Joerg describe earlier I have changed the ventilator on it this year (JABSCO 35770-0094 Continuous duty 100mm (4") blower, 24V running on 12V} and have only 1 shunt.

 

Best,

Jörg

A55#44


Re: Heater and fuel bladder

Peter Luke
 

Eric,

How wise it it to burn propane in an enclosed space albeit with a slightly open companionway?

Propane undergoes combustion reactions in a similar fashion to other alkanes. In the presence of excess oxygen, propane burns to form water and carbon dioxide.
C 3 H 8 + 5 O 2 ⟶ 3 CO 2 + 4 H 2 O + heat 

When insufficient oxygen is present for complete combustion, carbon monoxide and/or soot (carbon) are formed as well:
2 C 3 H 8 + 9 O 2 ⟶ 4 CO 2 + 2 CO + 8 H 2 O + heat

C 3 H 8 + 2 O 2 ⟶ 3 C + 4 H 2 O + heat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Properties_and_reactions

Does your CO2 or CO alarm sound off?

Appears that CO2 and H2O are byproducts - condensation & suffocating gas.

Regards,

Peter

On 7/12/2020 11:13 am, eric freedman wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Kimberlite came with a couple of blowers mounted under the port coming in my port locker.

I was hooked to ductwork to blow fresh air into the aft cabin, the main cabin , and the forward cabin.

It was very easy to hook an Espar heater into this system as the ductwork was in place. I don’t know if the 54 was supplied with this option.

If you do not have these ducts, then I agree that hot water with blowers is the way to go.

 

I think you will find pumping the fuel into the tank a lot easier than using fuel nozzle. You also do not get air into the bladder.

In the interim If you turn on the stove and open the companionway a crack it heats up the main cabin nicely.

Some old timers used to use red clay flower pots over the burners to act as radiators.

 

I am off to Kimberlite on the 12th and will return on the 21st

Dinner?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of JEFFREY KRAUS
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2020 6:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heater and fuel bladder

 

Eric,
I'm not sure what you mean about a forced air system.
It was cold north of the gulf stream. I had a small propane heater for the trip. It worked but it was a temporary solution. 
That bladder looks like the same one I have. I got it from Roberto.
Best Regards,
Jeff 
Spirit Amel 54 #14 
Shinnecock, NY


Re: Heater and fuel bladder

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Eric,
I'll look to see if I have those blowers, but I don't believe I have them.
The luxury of linking the heater with the engine and hot water circuits, along with the option of a cockpit heating unit seem to make the hydronic system a great option. 
As far as pumping fuel from the bladder, it doesn't get any easier then a siphon system. 
I'm free thru wednesday. I'm making a scallop trip friday, and we leave 2am. How's Wednesday nite for dinner? Roberto, Charles, Jeff G.? Anyone else?
Jeff


Re: 3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Good Morning Alan,
At the risk of sounding stupid, what do you mean by "low SOC batteries?"
I avoid letting my battery voltage drop below 24volts. They are standard lead acid.
I was also looking into a means to shut off the alternator from charging. Is your last sentence a description of that?
Overcharging on extended periods of motoring has presented problems, and if I could have the option of shutting off the charging circuit from the alternator to the batteries, it would be fail safe for the battery bank.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Spirit Amel 54 #14


Re: Cleaning fresh water tank on my SM2K

Slavko Despotovic
 

Hi,

I hove done some research on net and there are some sailors that use white vinegar for tank cleaning. It is more environmentally  friendly. Anyone have used this method for water tank cleaning? 
here is a link with explanation https://rvblogger.com/blog/safe-sanitize-rv-water-tank-vinegar/
I use white vinegar for my coffee machine cleaning and it is very successful. It is interesting that machine heats up the mixture of water in vinegar before it goes trough the machine. 
My water tank needs to be cleaned so I am looking for the best and friendly procedure.


Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


Re: Heater and fuel bladder

eric freedman
 

Hi Jeff,

Kimberlite came with a couple of blowers mounted under the port coming in my port locker.

I was hooked to ductwork to blow fresh air into the aft cabin, the main cabin , and the forward cabin.

It was very easy to hook an Espar heater into this system as the ductwork was in place. I don’t know if the 54 was supplied with this option.

If you do not have these ducts, then I agree that hot water with blowers is the way to go.

 

I think you will find pumping the fuel into the tank a lot easier than using fuel nozzle. You also do not get air into the bladder.

In the interim If you turn on the stove and open the companionway a crack it heats up the main cabin nicely.

Some old timers used to use red clay flower pots over the burners to act as radiators.

 

I am off to Kimberlite on the 12th and will return on the 21st

Dinner?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of JEFFREY KRAUS
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2020 6:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heater and fuel bladder

 

Eric,
I'm not sure what you mean about a forced air system.
It was cold north of the gulf stream. I had a small propane heater for the trip. It worked but it was a temporary solution. 
That bladder looks like the same one I have. I got it from Roberto.
Best Regards,
Jeff 
Spirit Amel 54 #14 
Shinnecock, NY


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

 

There is not a general rule as to what needs to be replaced, but for a good overall view of what you might need to do (some, maybe all) go to this Super Maramu overhaul of the Bow Thruster:

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:02 PM Santorin LO via groups.io <santorinlo18=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

Just to update you, for a quick fix, I put just VERY little silicon around the worn seal and then used old inner tube cut wrapped around the the shaft pressed to the bottom where it goes into the hole (above the seal) - 600miles with the bow diving frequently - not a drop came in, the better thing - less then a minute to remove and safely moored in the marina.

Now, before ordering the maintenance kit, an anyone tell me what need to check / maintain replace on the electric motor bottom (Bill - you mentioned something and I was also told there is a bearing better be replaced after a while.

Will be back with more topics when lift on the hard soon... 

Rgds


Re: 3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater

Alan Leslie
 

Hello Jeff,

Re Smart External Regulators

There are a lot of them on the market and they mostly work the same way, except the Sterling units which don't require alternator modification (I don;t understand how they work). The majority require you to modify the alternator to disconnect the internal regulator and bring out the wires from the brushes (the field connection) to connect to the external regulator. That's easy enough to do, but you need to be aware that the standard Leece Neville 175A alternator is not continuously rated for full output. In other words with a smart regulator and low SOC batteries, when you start the engine, the reg will deliver max field current to the alternator and it will produce 175A - until either the batteries charge up quickly and the current drops or the alternator burns up. You need to be aware of this so that you can manage the system, by either not allowing the batteries to get too low (always a good plan) or being prepared to start the genset and switch on the battery chargers to relieve the load on the alternator.
There is information in the FILES section on alternator mods for smart regulators.
Another useful thing to have is a switch to disconnect the reg field connection when your batteries are fully charged so that when you are running the engine for short trips around the marina, for example, you don't start up a charging cycle when you don't need it.

I don't know anything about heaters !

Good luck

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

Santorin LO
 

Hi All,

Just to update you, for a quick fix, I put just VERY little silicon around the worn seal and then used old inner tube cut wrapped around the the shaft pressed to the bottom where it goes into the hole (above the seal) - 600miles with the bow diving frequently - not a drop came in, the better thing - less then a minute to remove and safely moored in the marina.

Now, before ordering the maintenance kit, an anyone tell me what need to check / maintain replace on the electric motor bottom (Bill - you mentioned something and I was also told there is a bearing better be replaced after a while.

Will be back with more topics when lift on the hard soon... 

Rgds


Re: A54 bilge pump problems...

 

Chris, probably pumping better because you sealed any minute vacuum side leaks as well as fixing the mechanical problem with the Delrin gear.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 3:02 AM Chris Likins <likinsca@...> wrote:

Thank you for everyones input. I followed the same repair that Thomas made and it works like a charm! Actually its pumping faster and better than it ever has since we owned the boat. 

 

This is a great forum and source of information. Thanks again!


Re: A55 , # 9

Joerg Esdorn
 

Hi Stuart, 160 V batteries?  Sorry to hear you're having problems.  My boat came with 6 MV 12/200 gel batteries for the house bank and a MV 90 Ah AGM battery to start the engine and generator.  According to the plans, there was only one shunt although I've not confirmed that fact.  Plan attached.  The battery compartment has a watertight seal to the cabin sole although as Billy indicates, there are cables existing from it so it may be that it is not fully watertight.  In any event, it is ventilated by a fan in the engine room - pic attached.  The fan is right next to the water pump reservoir.  There are hoses entering and exiting the battery compartment right above the bilge - you can't miss them on my boat.  See the hoses furthest left and right in the picture of the bilge.  I hope that helps.  I have had the gels replaced with MV MLI 24/5500 LiFePO4 batteries just this year.  I also had a second shunt installed to monitor the engine battery.  Cheers Joerg

Joerg Esdorn
A55 #53 Kincsem
On the hard in Vigo, Spain


Re: 3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Jeff hopefully heading south in January but we’ll see 
Cheers 🥂 
Courtney 
Trippin
54#101
Brunswick 


On Dec 6, 2020, at 6:44 AM, JEFFREY KRAUS <jmkraus@...> wrote:

Courtney,
I haven't tried to post any pictures onto the Amel site. I'll try to figure out how to do it, and take some pictures of the components, and the put the pictures up.
It's a pretty simple set up.
Jeff
Spirit 
Amel 54 #14
Shinnecock, NY


Re: A55 , # 9

Billy Newport
 

I have #56. I have agms. There is 1 shunt. The boxes are not ventilated as far as I can see. They are not watertight as the wires exit through a hole leading under the nav table which is not sealed.

I replaced the original batteries in June. My boat is Sept 2016.

Billy


Re: 3 topics Smart Regulator Hydronic diesel heater

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Courtney,
I haven't tried to post any pictures onto the Amel site. I'll try to figure out how to do it, and take some pictures of the components, and the put the pictures up.
It's a pretty simple set up.
Jeff
Spirit 
Amel 54 #14
Shinnecock, NY


Re: Heater and fuel bladder

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Eric,
I'm not sure what you mean about a forced air system.
It was cold north of the gulf stream. I had a small propane heater for the trip. It worked but it was a temporary solution. 
That bladder looks like the same one I have. I got it from Roberto.
Best Regards,
Jeff 
Spirit Amel 54 #14 
Shinnecock, NY


Re: A54 bilge pump problems...

Chris Likins
 

Thank you for everyones input. I followed the same repair that Thomas made and it works like a charm! Actually its pumping faster and better than it ever has since we owned the boat. 

 

This is a great forum and source of information. Thanks again!


Re: Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

Paul Stascavage
 

Thanks you too all who contributed to assisting me with this project.

Just a few notes here to possibly help others dealing with this project in the future.

To clean the rudder post of rust and salt deposits, I took a 2 inch piece of schedule 40 PVC and using contact cement, I glued a small piece of fine sandpaper to the inside of the pipe.  This did a great job cleaning up the post and allowed me to work on the post without touching the gland threads.  I did this before removing the old packing so as to prevent most of the dust from getting into the gland.

As a side note, I use a similar procedure when cleaning the salt deposits out of the c-drive cavity before installing new seals except I zip tie the sandpaper to the outside surface of the PVC pipe.

After pulling out the old packing, I found some of the threads of the gland brittle and damaged with some remnants of some threads at the bottom of the gland.  I am fairly certain that the damage occurred merely from the friction of the packing material rubbing against the threads as it was removed.  I was quite careful with the screws and the Palmetto 1101 Packing Extractor to make sure I was not near the threads.  One of fiberglass guys in the yard used thickened west system epoxy, west 403, 404, and cab-o-sil to beef up threads.  He waxed the packing nut and installed it as a mold.  We let it cure for 4 days.  It worked great.

To cut the new packing material, I started with a short piece of 2 inch schedule 80 PVC.  I had a machine shop mill about 3 inches of the end of the pipe down to 50 mm diameter (the same as the rudder post) and used this to size and cut the packing material that is supplied by AMEL but is no longer cut to size.  It was easier than trying to do it on the post itself.

The new packing material went in easy with grease.  I tapped each piece down with a 1/4 in wooden dowel and then with the 2 inch piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe.

We launched yesterday and so far no leaks.  We will see what happens when we set sail in a couple weeks.

Again, a big thank you to all for their input.  The knowledge of the members of this forum and their willingness to share such is truly awesome.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Re: A55 , # 9

Justin Maguire
 

Woah - that’s crazy. Somethings definitely not right and Amel wiring it up in a way that voided the warrenty seems also crazy... if you’re the original owner that definitely feels like a conversation to have with them.  


On Dec 5, 2020, at 18:19, Stuart Hemingway <stuart@...> wrote:



Atten. Of Joerg Esdorn,

 

Joerg,

 

I know that your boat is one of the later production versions and I’d like to ask if you have details of the battery arrangement on your boat.

 

Do you have AGM’s and are the battery boxes ventilated either mechanically or by natural ventilation ,ours are not.

 

Also do you have a wiring plan for the shunts and the batteries and do you have one or two shunts , we have two.

 

The boat has gone through 40 # AGM ,160 v batteries from the launch of the boat in 2012.

 

Mastervolt tell me that their guarantee is void because the batteries should have been Gel and because the Amel wire up to the batteries does not follow the Mastervolt recommendation.

 

If you can help in any way with information that would be really appreciated.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Stuart

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