Date   

Re: Event: An Amel Survey by Olivier Beaute - Saturday, 16 January 2021 #cal-invite

Roque
 

Great idea! 

Congrats

Roque

Em qui., 3 de dez. de 2020 às 12:39, main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <noreply@groups.io> escreveu:

An Amel Survey by Olivier Beaute

When:
Saturday, 16 January 2021
20:00 to 21:00
(UTC+00:00) UTC

Where:
From La Rochelle, France

Organizer: Bill Rouse brouse@...

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Description:

All,
 
It is my great pleasure to announce that Olivier Beaute will present at our first ZOOM Meeting of 2021. It will be held on 16 January 2021 20:00 to 21:00 UTC. Details:
 
Many members of the Amel Yacht Owners Group trained on their new Amels with Olivier in La Rochelle. Many of us relied on Olivier as the manager of Amel SAV. And, a substantial number of our Group have used Olivier's surveys when purchasing their pre-owned Amels. As most of you know, after a long and successful career with Amel, Olivier Beaute went into the survey business and established ATLANTIC YACHT SURVEY.
 
The topic of Olivier's ZOOM Meeting will be "An Amel Survey." His presentation will last about 30 minutes with 30 minutes for questions. Tilo Peters will monitor, queue, and ask Olivier your texted questions.  
 
This meeting will be very good for all of our members. 
  • Members who own an Amel will someday face having their Amel surveyed. These members will be interested in how to maintain and prepare their boat for a survey and some of the common things that are overlooked by Sellers in preparation to sell their Amel. This will be important information to know in advance of a survey. 
  • Members who are searching for an Amel will need a survey to complete the purchase. These members will enjoy learning more about the survey process, especially the Olivier Beaute survey process. This should be extremely valuable.

I suspect that this meeting may book to capacity and urge you to register soon.

Topic: AYOG January Gathering: An Amel Survey
Time: Jan 16, 2021 08:00 PM (20:00) GMT
 
Join Zoom Meeting
 
Meeting ID: 821 2513 7503
 
Join by Skype for Business
 
YouTube Livestream: https://youtu.be/zYika5HEkZE


Event: An Amel Survey by Olivier Beaute - Saturday, 16 January 2021 #cal-invite

main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

An Amel Survey by Olivier Beaute

When:
Saturday, 16 January 2021
20:00 to 21:00
(UTC+00:00) UTC

Where:
From La Rochelle, France

Organizer: Bill Rouse brouse@...

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Description:

All,
 
It is my great pleasure to announce that Olivier Beaute will present at our first ZOOM Meeting of 2021. It will be held on 16 January 2021 20:00 to 21:00 UTC. Details:
 
Many members of the Amel Yacht Owners Group trained on their new Amels with Olivier in La Rochelle. Many of us relied on Olivier as the manager of Amel SAV. And, a substantial number of our Group have used Olivier's surveys when purchasing their pre-owned Amels. As most of you know, after a long and successful career with Amel, Olivier Beaute went into the survey business and established ATLANTIC YACHT SURVEY.
 
The topic of Olivier's ZOOM Meeting will be "An Amel Survey." His presentation will last about 30 minutes with 30 minutes for questions. Tilo Peters will monitor, queue, and ask Olivier your texted questions.  
 
This meeting will be very good for all of our members. 
  • Members who own an Amel will someday face having their Amel surveyed. These members will be interested in how to maintain and prepare their boat for a survey and some of the common things that are overlooked by Sellers in preparation to sell their Amel. This will be important information to know in advance of a survey. 
  • Members who are searching for an Amel will need a survey to complete the purchase. These members will enjoy learning more about the survey process, especially the Olivier Beaute survey process. This should be extremely valuable.

I suspect that this meeting may book to capacity and urge you to register soon.

Topic: AYOG January Gathering: An Amel Survey
Time: Jan 16, 2021 08:00 PM (20:00) GMT
 
Join Zoom Meeting
 
Meeting ID: 821 2513 7503
 
Join by Skype for Business
 
YouTube Livestream: https://youtu.be/zYika5HEkZE


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Matt Salatino
 

Amel installed Mastervolt Gel Batteries.
Not my preference, but I had few options. AMEL’s Lithium upgrade is $40,000 USD. Too dear for our purse!
~~~⛵️~~~Matt Salatino, Speed of Life, A50 #27

On Dec 3, 2020, at 6:22 AM, Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:

As Scott says, the lithium profile holds many potential advantages, particularly for longer term cruisers. The one disadvantage in my mind is that they are too lightweight for the Amel 54 and maybe SM too??. The balance of the boat was designed by Amel with generator on port and lead batteries on starboard and it is seriously impacted by removing circa 250kg from the starboard side when changing to lithium. That's why I am so interested right now in comparing different flavours of lead batteries in an attempt to optimise my performance without moving to Lithium. My generator is in good condition with thousands of hours left on the clock, so for me, the balance issue is the deciding factor. Maybe I end up with lithium batteries and lead ingots until my generator dies! :-)

Alex, I believe you have the "advantage" of needing to change your generator and I think this brings opportunity to maintain the balance of the boat by carefully selecting a generator system which is sufficiently lightweight to allow you to change over to Lithium and also maintain the balance of the boat. The generator which Bill K installed looks very nice. Good luck with whatever solution you choose. 

Matt, Ah yes, I understand Amel prefer Victron Gel or AGM batteries? Are you happy with their choice?

Cheers,  Dean 
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Arno Luijten
 

Scott,

It’s clear you are a big fan of Lithium batteries. And of course there are huge benefits to them.
But you keep repeating the benefits and ignore the drawbacks. Those are (still) price and complexity of the installation. Also I’m personally still not convinced about the claimed lifespan. If you see how much moderation on the batteries is taking place in electric cars by the charging/cooling/heating system, I have my doubts about batteries lasting 15 years in a much more hostile environment. 
You also state the recharging process using solar as an alternative for the genset. That may be true on all the nice sunny days, but if you are having a few overcast days you are in trouble.
I’m not saying that Lithium is not a viable option, but there are more aspects to the installation then you like to highlight.

Regards,

Arno Liuijten


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Dean Gillies
 

As Scott says, the lithium profile holds many potential advantages, particularly for longer term cruisers. The one disadvantage in my mind is that they are too lightweight for the Amel 54 and maybe SM too??. The balance of the boat was designed by Amel with generator on port and lead batteries on starboard and it is seriously impacted by removing circa 250kg from the starboard side when changing to lithium. That's why I am so interested right now in comparing different flavours of lead batteries in an attempt to optimise my performance without moving to Lithium. My generator is in good condition with thousands of hours left on the clock, so for me, the balance issue is the deciding factor. Maybe I end up with lithium batteries and lead ingots until my generator dies! :-)

Alex, I believe you have the "advantage" of needing to change your generator and I think this brings opportunity to maintain the balance of the boat by carefully selecting a generator system which is sufficiently lightweight to allow you to change over to Lithium and also maintain the balance of the boat. The generator which Bill K installed looks very nice. Good luck with whatever solution you choose. 

Matt, Ah yes, I understand Amel prefer Victron Gel or AGM batteries? Are you happy with their choice?

Cheers,  Dean 
SV Stella
A54-154


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

Alex,

If I were you, I'd save the money on a new genset and put it into a good sized lithium bank. My experience is the same as others where I rarely use my genset despite using around 200-250AH a day - I literally have it on my calendar to run it to keep it from dying from non-use. I routinely run the Bauer 2 on battery - in fact, I have never run it on genset because I don't want to deal with potential issues with exhaust getting into my scuba tanks. We don't use AC much, but it easily runs all night on battery when we tested it. The aft Climma plus the raw water pump draws around 1kw I think.

My reading of the Firefly materials when I was considering them highlighted a few things to me:

They still have the charge efficiency issues of lead batteries. Sure, it's a bit better, but they waste a lot more energy when accepting charge. 10AH from your charger does not equal 10AH increase in battery charge state.  You lose around 20%, I think.  In my 2 years with lifepo4, I'm averaging 97-98% charge efficiency. That means you'll be running your genset more.

Further look at these charts from a company trying to sell you the batteries!
https://coastalclimatecontrol.com/index.php/blog/186-firefly-batteries-new-testing-reveals.html

Charge acceptance drops off quickly after 30 minutes while you don't get a full charge until a bit over 3 hours. Sure, it's better than regular AGM, but the point is that you'll be running your genset more at an unhealthy low load. My 2 year old lithiums take the full 200amps until well into the 90%+ SOC level so if I were to run my genset, it's not for very long and at a healthy high load.

Discharge inefficiency goes up with higher draws.  Like most lead batteries, their amp hour rating is based on a 20 hour discharge rate. Try to run a scuba compressor and see how that affects your total available amp hours. It has virtually no impact with lithium. A 100ah lithium battery will last 10 hours at 10amp draw and around 1 hour at 100amp draw. Lead tech results in big drops in actual capacity when the discharge rate goes up. Therefore, you'll be running your genset more on these high discharge rate items.

Further, if you look at Firefly's own voltage vs SOC tables, you'll see that at low SOC, voltage sag is significant and therefore your amps go up. That makes the claim that you can draw them to low SOC a bit misleading. That same Bauer compressor that takes 2200w/26.5v = 83amps on my lifepo4 system will take 91-92 amps if you're hanging out at 40% SOC. And that is resting voltage for lead. I believe it would drop much lower at that SOC under such a high load. And because of the near non-existent discharge inefficiency of lithium, that high load has little to no impact on the battery capacity or voltage. On lead batteries, it has a huge impact, so I doubt a 116AH firefly battery would last 1/2 hour with a 91amp draw. 

Bottom line - you'll run your genset more.

I remember we talked about this before and I was telling you not to believe all the marketing material and that I thought lithium was the better option in the long run. Now that your decision criteria includes whether or not to buy a new genset, if I were you, I'd be nursing the genset + lithium vs. new genset + firefly.

I know you don't like solar arches, but be aware that deck mounted solar does not output anywhere near their rated watts. Look at any of the temp vs. power output charts and you'll quickly see why.














--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Mark Barter
 

Thanks for all of the help with this. 

The fitter is modifying the rails and the mounts and also moving the alternator to the opposite side.

The problem with the gearbox is that they ordered a straight gearbox and not what they have described as a "drop box". The drop box means that the exit part of the gearbox is lower than the input side if that makes sense. The engine simply won't fit with a straight gearbox.

Can anyone tell me what model of gearbox has been successfully fitted because we need to find one ASAP.

We are currently tied to an exposed wall of a boatyard and a storm is expected tomorrow. We are being towed to a marina today which I am not looking forward to at all.  

Thanks again for the invaluable help.

--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Dan Wilcox
 

Sure.  I actually installed it myself over the course of 2 weekends.  My rails were quite rusted so I made new ones.  I'm heading down to the boat now if you want me to take any specific pictures.

Thanks, Dan
Feierabend SM #86


On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 02:59:23 PM PST, Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:


Nice! Where is the raw water pump? How difficult is it to change the impeller?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 2, 2020, at 4:17 PM, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>






On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Matt Salatino
 

Nice! Where is the raw water pump? How difficult is it to change the impeller?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 2, 2020, at 4:17 PM, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>






On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110
<20190415_090043.jpg>
<20190415_090157.jpg>
<20190420_083603.jpg>


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Dan Wilcox
 

Here's a picture of our Beta 85.  I extended the rail and reverse mounted the alternator (fuel filters were moved). 

Thanks, Dan
Feierabend #86

On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 01:45:54 PM PST, michael winand via groups.io <mfw642000@...> wrote:


Michael Nebo sm251  Australia 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 7:17 am, michael winand
<mfw642000@...> wrote:
We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Mastervolt installation help

Arno Luijten
 

I more or less went the same route. I also added an electronic insulation transformer, a new Alpha Pro II alternator controller and an AC monitor. You do not need the service tech password for adjusting any of the charging/voltage parameters. The service tech password is mainly used to adjust the calibration of the various devices. But you can really mess up the system as well with it. If you really need it I can provide it to you .

You typically do not replace the actual busbars, but you put the Mastershunt as the very first device between the batteries and all the rest.
Please do remember that what you wrote down in three or four sentences is in reality a week of work. Ask me how I know.

Regards,
ARno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: BVI Fines for sailing I n BVI waters

Brent Cameron
 

I would send it to a politician rather than to the bureaucracy.  In parliamentary democracies like the BVI (or Canada), the ministers are much more likely to actually go fix issues.  I had a quick look and the politician actually responsible for cross border management, national security and ship registrations AND tourism is the Premier’s office (they only have 6 other ministries so I guess he has the catch all).  His email is premier at gov dot vgand while he won’t likely answer directly, as a politician, he will have a staff of people ensuring that those issues are well dealt with.  His name is the Honourable Andrew Fahie (a bit of sugar helps too).     I have sent one to him directly too.  This is complete silliness as they will need all the tourist dollars they can get when this COVID situation gets back to some semblance of normal.  Glad to see they dropped the fines to 5% of the initial but it is still silliness.  Good on you for tackling this Kent!

Brent

On Dec 2, 2020, 11:55 AM -0500, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>, wrote:
Oops

Info at bvitourism dot com
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Matt Salatino
 

I tried to get Amel to install them. They would not, as they had no familiarity with them.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Dec 2, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:

Thanks Matt, much appreciated. 

Did you install Firefly batteries in your new A50 or did you make the leap to Lithium?

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

michael winand
 

Michael Nebo sm251  Australia 


On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 7:17 am, michael winand
<mfw642000@...> wrote:
We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Bill,

Very interesting...You said "One of the key parameters for us is to watch the difference between the high and low halves of the battery bank.  If they drift apart from being identical (half the nominal 24V total) that is an alert to a problem."

Do you  not have a balancer across the 12V battery pairs to keep the voltages the same?

We have 3 parallel strings of 4 x 6V AGMs in series with balancers across the 4 and the voltages on each battery stay the same within 0.02V and have done now for 4 years.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

michael winand
 

We installed a beta 60. Did not have any problems with the physical size. 
The gearbox is a tmc.
Beta power ratings are on the output flange of the gearbox. Compared with the Volvo at the flywheel. The beta has more torque than the Volvo. 









On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 10:34 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

We are in a boatyard in Gibraltar to have our M80T replaced by the Beta 85T.

To cut a long story short, the Perkins is out and just as the fitter was about to have the Beta craned in he discovered that the Beta was too big. As I type he is trying to work out how the new engine and the engine bed can be modified to fit.

The Beta is stock from the manufacturer except that it came fitted with a large 175a Leece Neville alternator. Also, it has the wrong type of gearbox. It needs a dropbox apparently.

Do you have the photos you took when you replaced your Perkins? 

Any help would be very gratefully received.

Many thanks
Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: BVI Fines for sailing I n BVI waters

Thomas Peacock
 

I was curious about this incident, and wanted more details. It now seems that they have pled guilty, and each has been fined US $1,000. Still not pretty, but better than $20,000. Here’s the story.

It was reminiscent for me of April of this year during the height of the pandemic. We decided to leave the Caribbean, and make for home waters (USA). I procedured a slip in a marina in San Juan, Puerto Rico. However, our sailing time wold have gotten us into San Juan at night, so we anchored in the harbor of Culebra, and pushed onto San Juan in the morning. The marina insisted that we go through US Customs and Border Patrol, which we were able to do via videoconference. The US agent’s first question was whether I had been in Culebra the previous day. I told the truth. He spent the next several minutes reading me the riot act about not having checked in when arriving in Culebra (they apparently have a 24/7 phone service). There was a lot of “Yes, sir”, “I apologize, sir”, “Of course, Officer”) on my part. He informed me of the fines and penalties for what I had failed to do. Fortunately, it ended there. I can only assume that many governmental agencies monitor AIS in their waters, and compare vessel names against a list of “legal” vessels.

I have two take-aways from this:

1. COVID has pushed a lot of the these island countries into getting tough. I certainly can’t blame them.

2. Local coast guards have limited patrol capabilities. I would think that they rely mostly on radar, and, when being used, AIS. If you are in any waters where you might, just MIGHT, not supposed to be, it would be best to turn off your AIS transmitter. Better to be an unknown blip on the radar screen, than a known vessel illegally in their waters.

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:54 AM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Here is the letter I sent to 9nfo at bvitourism dot com

I am a long time sailor and cruiser who has been to the BVI many times over the last 40 years, both as a charter boat bareboat cruiser and on my own boat. I have spent my vacation money there on charter boat rentals, marinas, boat repairs, supplies, restaurants, auto rentals, taxis, tours... I am compelled to write to you regarding BVI's draconian treatment of sailors straying into BVI waters.  I have spoken to several sailing friends who feel the same.
 
Until I hear that the BVI has apologized to cruisers in general and those treated so rudely specifically, charges have been dropped, and rules softened to include warning only for first offense of sailing in BVI waters, I will no longer be visiting your country or supporting your economy. I understand your concerns about Corona SARs 2 virus, but that doesn't excuse treating your life's blood so poorly. You are the dog biting the hand that feeds it.
 
Sincerely,
Kent Robertson
SV Kristy
USCG Certificate 1073851
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: ONAN replacement or not?

Dean Gillies
 

Thanks Matt, much appreciated. 

Did you install Firefly batteries in your new A50 or did you make the leap to Lithium?

Cheers, Dean
SV Stella A54-154


Re: Water ingress close to the rudder tube

Martin Birkhoff
 

Thanks Bill,

the new rudder packing is tight, There is no water ingressing at the top of the rudder stock tube.

Using a gopro camera in time lapse mode we could see the ingressing water appearing at this black structures.  Your affirm what we fear, there must have been a ground contact, may be an elder one.
I will contact Olivier. Thanks for his address.

Martin

SV Mago del Sur - 54#40


Mastervolt installation help

Billy Newport
 

I have ordered a Mastervolt DC500/Mastershunt/EasyView 5 and a SCM60. I am planning on replacing my Victron MPPT with the SCM60. My boat has an alphapro ii alternator regulator and the usual 100 and 60A chargers. I also have an EasyView 5. All of these have masterbus connections.
Is it an simple as just replacing the DC bus bars in the battery compartment with the DC500/Shunt, replace the victron with the SCM60, install the EasyView 5 in the cockpit dash, wire it all together with masterbus and voila?
I am hoping to tell all chargers to use the shunt for voltage/temperature. Can this be done without a mastervolt tech with a password for masteradjust? Is EasyView 5 sufficient to adjust all these settings?

Thanks
Billy (Amel 55#56).

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