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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
I've had this Square D switch with safety feature for some time now. The added safety is good but if a hose starts leaking it will do nothing to prevent pumping your fresh water tank empty unless the leak is massive and close to the pump. The main objective of the safety is to prevent the pump from running when the tank is empty.
Our pump never runs continuously when using the taps or the showers. Only for the toilets the demand exceeds the pump-supply capacity. In all other cases the pump supplies more water then requested, causing the pressure vessel to fill up. At some point the pressure exceeds the shut off pressure (even when the tap is still running) and the pumps stops for a short while until the pressure vessel has lost enough pressure to re-activate the pump. In other words in many cases the pressure drop will not be enough to activate the safety feature on the Sqare D switch. So when, let's say the shower tape starts leaking it will happily empty out the watertank even with the Square D safety feature. The most simple way to secure the system is obviously switching off the pump when you leave. A timer may work but with a big leak you can pump quite a lot of water out of the system in an hour so the question becomes at what duration the time should be set. Regards, Arno Luijten SV Luna, A54-121
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
Pardon me if this is a stupid question but how does the pressure switch know the difference between a leak and an open running faucet?
Regards, Robert Giroux Future Amel Owner
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of John Clanton
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 3:06 PM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
The 55 has the same Square D pressure switch. If the pressure drops below a certain level, one must manually engage, and hold, the pressure switch (by way of a small lever on the lower, right side of the Square D unit) until a minimum pressure is achieved. This is typically only a few seconds.
I always turn the pressure pump breaker off when I leave, but never considered do so at night. It makes sense.
John Clanton S/V Devereux Antibes, France
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
John Clanton <jclanton@...>
The 55 has the same Square D pressure switch. If the pressure drops below a certain level, one must manually engage, and hold, the pressure switch (by way of a small lever on the lower, right side of the Square D unit) until a minimum pressure is achieved. This is typically only a few seconds.
I always turn the pressure pump breaker off when I leave, but never considered do so at night. It makes sense.
John Clanton S/V Devereux Antibes, France
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
Thomas Kleman
We went with the SOP solution; keep the breaker off. Additionally, the fresh water pump LED goes green when the breaker is pushed in vs when the pump is active.....it helps me remember to turn it off.
Tom and Kirstin SV L'ORIENT Cruising Oahu, Hawaii
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
Gary, If Borell happens to be out of production, tell them that I will promote this alarm in my book, my website, and here. Bill
This is a good discussion. I have had three forays into this arena:
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
I think the Amel 50 has the safety cutoff switch. I go, weekly to a friend’s boat while they’re out of country and fresh water flush the watermaker. I have to turn on 24 volts. The pump will not come on, I assume now, as the pressure is low. I have to flip a lever on the pressure switch to start the pump. Once the pressure builds, it works fine after that. I thought it was a problem with the switch until this thread, when the lightbulb went off...(above my head). Amel finally figured it out....
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On May 11, 2020, at 6:54 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Re: Updated Event: Zoom Meeting Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle - Saturday, 16 May 2020
#cal-invite
Thanks for setting this up, Bill!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
As mentioned, the best experience is via Zoom link (https://epfl.zoom.us/j/98523568530, Meeting ID: 985 2356 8530), as it will give you the best output and you will see things as they are transmitted. So far, I have been amazed at how well zoom performs over relatively low-bandwidth connections. I especially recommend using the app that you can download for free at zoom.us. I have also created a YouTube Live stream: https://youtu.be/Ffks9eEkGG4 This stream may be a bit off, as it seems to show my control view and not the speaker view that is normally transmitted via Zoom. After the meeting I will upload the Zoom recording to YouTube and send out that link as well, but these days Zoom is taking 48-72 hours to process the videos. See you Saturday (or Sunday, depending upon what part of the world you’re in)! Tilo Zurich, Switzerland
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
Gary Silver
This is a good discussion. I have had three forays into this arena:
1. I once manually set my Dessalator fresh water flush valve to the flush position, got distracted and pumped 800 liters of "flush" water thru my membranes. This while motoring into Providencialis in the Turks and Caicos (the lesser draft may have aided in this circumstance). Only when I investigated why my water tank was empty, did I discover my forgetfulness induced error. In this instance my fresh water was pumped overboard while coming into port, so no major issues. 2. Once while under sail and running the water maker, I was surprised to hear the bilge water-level alarm go off, I raised the engine compartment cover to see water sloshing about just around the feet of the Calpeda AC seawater pump. A quick finger lick proved it to be salt water and investigation revealed it was coming from the seal of the low pressure Dessalator feed pump. I assume my bilge pump had been operating for some time until it was overwhelmed. 3. While sailing from Grenada to Carriacou one boisterous day I overheard a one sided MayDay discussion and noted we were only about 5 miles away from the lat-long of a vessel that was sinking. We arrived first on scene about 20 minutes after the 4 folks took to their life-raft and watched their home disappear into 11,000 ft of water 2 days before Christmas. Getting them and their life-raft aboard in 25+ knots and 8 ft seas was quite an adventure. They were sailing along, when the wife decided to go below and get something to eat only to find the floor boards floating. All attempts to find the site of the water intrusion were futile as the water was already too deep. Early warning may have helped them save their boat. This got me to remembering my first offshore sail training aboard the Orange Coast College vessel Alaska Eagle en-route from Costa Rica to San Diego via Clipperton Atoll. When standing watch we manually pumped the bilge every hour and logged it. Able then to deal with any increase in bilge level. At any rate, after one or more of the above episodes, I purchased a bilge pump run-on alarm from Borel Manufacturing of California. Wired into the bilge pump circuit, if that circuit runs for more than 2 minutes it sounds a 110 dB sonalert that will awaken the dead. Once the pump stops momentarily it resets the solid state timer of the run-on alarm. When aboard I test it daily by switching the bilge pump to the manual position for more than 2 minutes. A similar alarm could be utilized on the fresh water pressure pump. It would only activate if the pressure pump (Amfa or otherwise) ran for more than 2 minutes. I checked the Borel Mfg. web site just now and don't see this alarm offered currently, however, I have a call into the owner to inquire about its status. I do like the idea of switching the pressure pump power off at night or when off the boat and I plan to incorporate that into my routine. Thanks for the discussion. I'll post as soon as I hear from Borel Mfg. Gary S. Silver, M.D. (retired) Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF Maybe Gary Silver will respond
Ryan & Kelly, Great find! I did not know that Square D offered this. This will work perfectly for any Amel with the OEM pump installed, but will not work for fans of Jabsco and others. That said, if I remember correctly, Gary Silver added an automatic cut-off switch that turned OFF the freshwater pump if it ran continuously for X minutes. Maybe Gary will respond. Bill
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:08 AM Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
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Updated Event: Zoom Meeting Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle - Saturday, 16 May 2020
#cal-invite
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
Zoom Meeting Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle When: Where: An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP Description: Group members Matt & Cindy Salatino will present their brand new Amel 50 #27 "Speed of Life" from the Amel pontoon in La Rochelle. Matt and Cindy will give us a virtual tour during this presentation and answer your questions at the end of the presentation. Tilo Peters will administer the ZOOM meeting and I suspect that things will run smoothly and be enjoyed by all attending. Tilo may record this on YouTube and also may do a YouTube simulcast, but your best experience will be with ZOOM. Tilo will update you on what he will do with YouTube.
Direct link to Join the 16 May at 20:00 UTC - ZOOM Meeting https://epfl.zoom.us/j
Meeting ID: 985 2356 8530
Join by SIP 98523568530@...
If you missed our first ZOOM meeting, you can view it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/
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Re: ZOOM Meeting - Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle
#ZOOM
#IMPORTANT
Mohammad Shirloo
Thanks to Bill and Tilo for taking the time to make these happen.
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 7:05 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: [Special] [AmelYachtOwners] ZOOM Meeting - Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle #IMPORTANT #ZOOM
Re: Confirmation of Amel 50 ZOOM Meeting: Saturday, May 16th at 20:00 UTC.
Direct link to Join the 16 May at 20:00 UTC - ZOOM Meeting https://epfl.zoom.us/j/98523568530 Meeting ID: 985 2356 8530 Join by SIP 98523568530@...
If you missed our first ZOOM meeting, you can view it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7Mm1bbL-PaA. The
first meeting was a test to understand the process. We did not have an expert guest speaker but we plan to have an expert guest speaker for most future meetings. I am currently working to line up experts for:
Best,
--
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
Ryan Meador
On my last boat, I had exactly the scenario you suggest happen: a hose let go while I was away from the boat, the entire water supply was pumped into the bilge, and the pump's diaphragm failed. I recently had to replace the pressure switch on our SM's AMFA water pump, which is a standard Square D switch. Rather than exact replacement, I used the FSG2J24M4BP, which has a low-pressure cut off. If a hose lets go, the pressure drops to such an extent that the pump will turn off and not turn on again until you manually flip the switch. This should prevent the worst of this type of problem, but it won't protect against slow leaks. Thanks, Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration Boston, MA, USA
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:04 AM Arlo <svplanb@...> wrote: On my last vessel 51 footer I used wall mounted timer from.McMaster carr that you could turn the dial from 15 to 120 minutes and then it would open the contacts electrically thereby turning off the water pump electric. It was placed by the galley sink. It worked flawlessly with daily use for 10 years. The reason we installed it was to ensure when we left the vessel that the water was turned off. On my Mango my SOP is simply turn off the water when I leave the boat. We have a bilge alarm when the water gets high for when we are onboard.
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Re: Parasailor on A54
Joerg Esdorn
Scott, my procedure is similar to yours. Getting the main unfurled is helpful and easing the sheet is vital, although there is a point where easing it too much results in the sail coming down twisted. I lead the snuffer line to an opening block attached to the Leeward forward mooring cleat with a soft shackle and pulling through that block, I’ve not needed a winch to pull down the snuffer. If you don’t have the block, you cannot really pull effectively and a light person risks being hoisted up by the line! I’m having the snuffer line lengthened now so I can get it on one of the cockpit winches when necessary. As it was, I could put it on the anchor capstan but it was not long enough to reach the mast winches. I want to be able to pull the snuffer down from the cockpit, which could be a big safety factor. On your other point, I fully agree. It’s very important to make sure the people doing the work have done the specific work before and have an excellent reputation. And you or a third person whom you trust must check the work carefully. I’m having Lithium batteries installed on my boat by the local Mastervolt dealer. At the end, a Mastervolt technician will travel to the boat and certify the installation. I’m hoping that is being careful enough! Cheers. Joerg
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ZOOM Meeting - Presentation of the Amel 50 from La Rochelle
#ZOOM
#IMPORTANT
Re: Confirmation of Amel 50 ZOOM Meeting: Saturday, May 16th at 20:00 UTC.
This Saturday at 2000 hours GMT, we will have a presentation of a new Amel 50. Group members Matt & Cindy Salatino will present their brand new Amel 50 #27 "Speed of Life" from the Amel pontoon in La Rochelle. Matt and Cindy will give us a virtual tour during this presentation and answer your questions at the end of the presentation. Tilo Peters will administer the ZOOM meeting and I suspect that things will run smoothly and be enjoyed by all attending. Tilo may record this on YouTube and also may do a YouTube simulcast, but your best experience will be with ZOOM. Tilo will update you on what he will do with YouTube.
Direct link to Join the 16 May at 20:00 UTC - ZOOM Meeting https://epfl.zoom.us/
Meeting ID: 985 2356 8530
Join by SIP 98523568530@...
If you missed our first ZOOM meeting, you can view it on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7Mm1bbL-PaA. The first meeting was a test to understand the process. We did not have an expert guest speaker but we plan to have an expert guest speaker for most future meetings. I am currently working to line up experts for:
Best,
--
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
I believe it’s the valves in the diaphragm. It’s usually a gang of 3 or 4 valves that are replaced as a set on a common “diaphragm”. Easily replaced, and spare part at most chandleries or from Amazon/EBay. Replacing that part fixes the problem.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On May 11, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> wrote:
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
Patrick McAneny
William , I have that problem , my pump cycles on for a maybe two seconds every five minutes or so. I have looked everywhere for a leak and finally concluded it had to be a leak in the pump, allowing water to go back to the tank. Can the check valves be accessed to clean ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
-----Original Message-----
From: william reynolds <sail23692@...> To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Sent: Mon, May 11, 2020 9:19 am Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF we suggest you always kill the power to the fresh water pump when leaving the boat.We check all clamps on the fresh water system every 6 months. I keep the water pressure at about 40 psi to reduce pressure on all water components. A final note, all Shurflo and Jabsco pumps have tiny check valves on the inlet and outlet. They do not tell you about this. Any tiny particles can lodge in these valves and bleed off the system pressure. The symptom of this problem is an infrequent cycling of the pump with no apparent leaks. I have always installed a prefilter on my fresh water system and have rarely had a pump problem. See attached pic CloudStreet
Bill Reynolds SM2K 331
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
william reynolds
we suggest you always kill the power to the fresh water pump when leaving the boat.We check all clamps on the fresh water system every 6 months. I keep the water pressure at about 40 psi to reduce pressure on all water components. A final note, all Shurflo and Jabsco pumps have tiny check valves on the inlet and outlet. They do not tell you about this. Any tiny particles can lodge in these valves and bleed off the system pressure. The symptom of this problem is an infrequent cycling of the pump with no apparent leaks. I have always installed a prefilter on my fresh water system and have rarely had a pump problem. See attached pic CloudStreet Bill Reynolds SM2K 331
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
Arlo
On my last vessel 51 footer I used wall mounted timer from.McMaster carr that you could turn the dial from 15 to 120 minutes and then it would open the contacts electrically thereby turning off the water pump electric. It was placed by the galley sink. It worked flawlessly with daily use for 10 years. The reason we installed it was to ensure when we left the vessel that the water was turned off. On my Mango my SOP is simply turn off the water when I leave the boat. We have a bilge alarm when the water gets high for when we are onboard.
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
Gerhard Mueller
It is far easier to use faucets or water taps equipped with micro switches. The micro switches operate a relay to start/stop the pump. So the pump only runs when a faucet is opened. You can get such faucets with micro switches e.g. from Whale.
-- Gerhard Mueller Amel Sharki #60 Currently Kalamata, Greece
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Re: FRESH WATER SAFETY CUTOFF
I’ve seen some boats use an ordinary light timer, available in any hardware store. They crank it on when they use the water system, and it times out, shutting off the pump. There is also a device made specifically for this purpose for boats.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This device would need a relay to operate a higher amperage pump:
On May 11, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Steven Bode - SV Intention 1994-SM#117 <steve@...> wrote:
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