Date   

Re: Howes fuel treatment

Arnold Mente
 

Hi Dan,
in Europe you only get diesel with organic additives everywhere. In addition, the EU has passed a law on the use of effective additives for environmental reasons. Only professional users have access to such additives. In the meantime, various manufacturers are trying to find an effective replacement and have so far already had new products on the market. Grotamar, I think the best additive is no longer being manufactured. It is particularly important that the tank is full to keep the amount of oxygen as small as possible. I do not know which products are available to you. Liqui Moly and ERC are the alternatives I know currently in Europe. In countries such as Colombia (Cartagena), the problem should be known and additives should also be available.
I hope it helps you in your decision, air and water are the biggest enemy of biodiesel as well as the time of storage because it is organic.

Best

Arnold 
SY Zephyr
SM203

Am 12.02.2020 um 19:45 schrieb Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>:

Thanks Arnold, it would be helpful to know if you were refueling with bio-diesel?  And if you were in a hot tropical location?

I have the dilema of being in Cartagena where they sell bio-diesel. I currently have 475 liters and need to decide if I top up before heading out or wait until I can reach a country with better fuel, but risk running the tank to less than 1/3. 

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm #387.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 8:08 PM Arnold Mente via Groups.Io <Arnold.mente=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi

I just want to get to the heart of this long discussion.

I have 30 years of positive experience with a full tank and an additive for diesel. There was never water in the tank and organic pollution. Last year I was so smart not to do this because lack of wind had covered a distance of 1500 SM under motor and had refueled several times. The result after 2 months in the port with a 1/4 full tank and without Grotamar (additiv) in the diesel was a complete algae infestation of the tank and lines before the winter break and the refilling of the tank.
I can highly recommend filling the tank completely with the addition of a good additiv at every opportunity and before any longer standstill.
There was a great deal of effort in cleaning the tank and completely replacing the lines and the filter system.

Best

Arnold
SY Zephyr
SM203


Am 12.02.2020 um 01:45 schrieb Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>:

There is a third reason to keep the tank reasonably full.  As the tank gets closer to empty the sloshing of the remaining fuel at lower levels will begin to stir up that sludge cocktail at the bottom and it will begin to enter your fuel system.  You can see it in the Racor bowls, if may increase your vacuum gauge if you have it in the Racor and it can clog your fuel line.   

Last season another boater (non Amel) had engine trouble and changed his fuel filter. He then experienced air seeping into his fuel lines around the Racor connections.  In the end it turned out that was because his fuel line was so clogged.  He borrowed my suction fluid extractor and sucked about 20 liters of crud and fuel off the bottom of his tank before he had it clean enough to proceed.  When they were stopped they were not in a location with easy access to fuel polishing services.  He believes what broke it all loose was a very rough passage with low fuel levels.

Regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm # 387, currently in Cartagena




On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 5:41 PM John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
Hi Bernd,
     When I purchased SM37 in 2016 the previous owner stressed to me to always keep the tank full and to always use the Baja filter.  He said in the 16 years he had her no one drop of fuel went into the tank other than through the Baja.  He did two circumnavigations and claims to never have had an issue.  I followed his advice.
A year into my ownership, I performed maintenance changing out the Racor filter and the Volvo engine filter.  Both were clean.  I intentionally ran the diesel tank dry and used a boroscope to inspect the tank and found it also spotless.    I continued to use the Baja filter and also add a Biocide each time I fill up.  
 
 There are two reasons to keep the tank full, one is it prevents condensation from forming in the tank as temperature changes.  Gas expands and contracts with temperature and draws in moisture.  In a climate with daily temperature changes the cycle can pull in a notable amount of moisture after a period.  The moisture aids in the growth of bio-organisms that feed on diesel.   Second reason at least  for me in the Atlantic and Caribbean, is to have the ability to run from a hurricane at a moments notice.  Amels have large tanks which give them excellent range in a pinch I like to have that capability.

   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA   



On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...> wrote:

Why fill up your tank to the max when you know where you want to go?

I think filling it up to the max only makes sense when you go for a really long passage and then you add some anti diesel bug adds.
When you fly on an airliner to your boat they only take as much fuel as they need plus alternate, contingency and a bit more for unforeseens.

--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal








--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203



Arnold Mente

Urbaniweg 12
7000 Eisenstadt 

Tel: +43 660 6699019

arnold.mente@...




--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Howes fuel treatment

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks Arnold, it would be helpful to know if you were refueling with bio-diesel?  And if you were in a hot tropical location?

I have the dilema of being in Cartagena where they sell bio-diesel. I currently have 475 liters and need to decide if I top up before heading out or wait until I can reach a country with better fuel, but risk running the tank to less than 1/3. 

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm #387.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 8:08 PM Arnold Mente via Groups.Io <Arnold.mente=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi

I just want to get to the heart of this long discussion.

I have 30 years of positive experience with a full tank and an additive for diesel. There was never water in the tank and organic pollution. Last year I was so smart not to do this because lack of wind had covered a distance of 1500 SM under motor and had refueled several times. The result after 2 months in the port with a 1/4 full tank and without Grotamar (additiv) in the diesel was a complete algae infestation of the tank and lines before the winter break and the refilling of the tank.
I can highly recommend filling the tank completely with the addition of a good additiv at every opportunity and before any longer standstill.
There was a great deal of effort in cleaning the tank and completely replacing the lines and the filter system.

Best

Arnold
SY Zephyr
SM203


Am 12.02.2020 um 01:45 schrieb Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>:

There is a third reason to keep the tank reasonably full.  As the tank gets closer to empty the sloshing of the remaining fuel at lower levels will begin to stir up that sludge cocktail at the bottom and it will begin to enter your fuel system.  You can see it in the Racor bowls, if may increase your vacuum gauge if you have it in the Racor and it can clog your fuel line.   

Last season another boater (non Amel) had engine trouble and changed his fuel filter. He then experienced air seeping into his fuel lines around the Racor connections.  In the end it turned out that was because his fuel line was so clogged.  He borrowed my suction fluid extractor and sucked about 20 liters of crud and fuel off the bottom of his tank before he had it clean enough to proceed.  When they were stopped they were not in a location with easy access to fuel polishing services.  He believes what broke it all loose was a very rough passage with low fuel levels.

Regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm # 387, currently in Cartagena




On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 5:41 PM John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
Hi Bernd,
     When I purchased SM37 in 2016 the previous owner stressed to me to always keep the tank full and to always use the Baja filter.  He said in the 16 years he had her no one drop of fuel went into the tank other than through the Baja.  He did two circumnavigations and claims to never have had an issue.  I followed his advice.
A year into my ownership, I performed maintenance changing out the Racor filter and the Volvo engine filter.  Both were clean.  I intentionally ran the diesel tank dry and used a boroscope to inspect the tank and found it also spotless.    I continued to use the Baja filter and also add a Biocide each time I fill up.  
 
 There are two reasons to keep the tank full, one is it prevents condensation from forming in the tank as temperature changes.  Gas expands and contracts with temperature and draws in moisture.  In a climate with daily temperature changes the cycle can pull in a notable amount of moisture after a period.  The moisture aids in the growth of bio-organisms that feed on diesel.   Second reason at least  for me in the Atlantic and Caribbean, is to have the ability to run from a hurricane at a moments notice.  Amels have large tanks which give them excellent range in a pinch I like to have that capability.

   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA   



On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...> wrote:

Why fill up your tank to the max when you know where you want to go?

I think filling it up to the max only makes sense when you go for a really long passage and then you add some anti diesel bug adds.
When you fly on an airliner to your boat they only take as much fuel as they need plus alternate, contingency and a bit more for unforeseens.

--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal








--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


SPAM - one got through

 

You haven't seen any email SPAM until this morning. 

I apologize for that. I made a mistake and accidentally approved the SPAM email. I deleted it a few minutes ago. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School - www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


Re: Opening Portlight Seals

Gerhard Mueller
 

Hello Mark

I have bought this foam rubber, cut it to the length needed, clued the ends together with superglue and fixed it in the window groove with contact adhesive.
For the different portlights I have used 10 mm or 8 mm diameter foam rubber.

https://www.gummiprofile24.de/epages/64048014.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/64048014/Categories/Produkte/%22EPDM%20Moosgummi-Rundprofile%20schwarz%22
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


Opening Portlight Seals

marklesparkle59
 

Good morning, can anyone share their experience of buying and fitting seals for the opening portlights, the photographs are from a 1983 Sharki.
If Maud is the answer how is she contacted?
Thank you.
Mark Porter
Sea Hobo
Sharki #96


Re: turning direction of prop and thread pitch - Santorin

Volker Hasenauer
 

Hi Olivier,

I am quite certain that I have the aluminum casing - so that would mean I have the RH version. What does RH standing for....probably "right...."?

Would you know the pitch of the thread? Its a M 20 thread...but no pitch has been mentioned and my boat is in the water.....

Many thanks,

Volker 

On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 10:27 AM Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Volker,

Originally, this Santorin has an aluminum casing C-drive, labelled CATEP, with a RH pitch propeller.
Since 1990, the drive may have been replaced with a cast iron casing one, and if so, the prop is a LH.
Check the casing with a magnet, or send a picture of the drive top unit.

Olivier

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 11 févr. 2020 à 01:37, Volker Hasenauer <volker.hasenauer@...> a écrit :


Hi Everyone,

I wonder if the turning direction of the prop on the Santorin in left or right hand? 

Does anyone of you know the pitch of the thread on the Santorin? I have a drawing on the gearbox, however it only say M 20.....but is silent about the pitch.

Volker
SY Aquamarine, Santorin 027
Borneo/Malaysia


Re: turning direction of prop and thread pitch - Santorin

Beaute Olivier
 

Hi Volker,

Originally, this Santorin has an aluminum casing C-drive, labelled CATEP, with a RH pitch propeller.
Since 1990, the drive may have been replaced with a cast iron casing one, and if so, the prop is a LH.
Check the casing with a magnet, or send a picture of the drive top unit.

Olivier

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 11 févr. 2020 à 01:37, Volker Hasenauer <volker.hasenauer@...> a écrit :


Hi Everyone,

I wonder if the turning direction of the prop on the Santorin in left or right hand? 

Does anyone of you know the pitch of the thread on the Santorin? I have a drawing on the gearbox, however it only say M 20.....but is silent about the pitch.

Volker
SY Aquamarine, Santorin 027
Borneo/Malaysia


Re: Howes fuel treatment

Arnold Mente
 

Hi

I just want to get to the heart of this long discussion.

I have 30 years of positive experience with a full tank and an additive for diesel. There was never water in the tank and organic pollution. Last year I was so smart not to do this because lack of wind had covered a distance of 1500 SM under motor and had refueled several times. The result after 2 months in the port with a 1/4 full tank and without Grotamar (additiv) in the diesel was a complete algae infestation of the tank and lines before the winter break and the refilling of the tank.
I can highly recommend filling the tank completely with the addition of a good additiv at every opportunity and before any longer standstill.
There was a great deal of effort in cleaning the tank and completely replacing the lines and the filter system.

Best

Arnold
SY Zephyr
SM203


Am 12.02.2020 um 01:45 schrieb Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...>:

There is a third reason to keep the tank reasonably full.  As the tank gets closer to empty the sloshing of the remaining fuel at lower levels will begin to stir up that sludge cocktail at the bottom and it will begin to enter your fuel system.  You can see it in the Racor bowls, if may increase your vacuum gauge if you have it in the Racor and it can clog your fuel line.   

Last season another boater (non Amel) had engine trouble and changed his fuel filter. He then experienced air seeping into his fuel lines around the Racor connections.  In the end it turned out that was because his fuel line was so clogged.  He borrowed my suction fluid extractor and sucked about 20 liters of crud and fuel off the bottom of his tank before he had it clean enough to proceed.  When they were stopped they were not in a location with easy access to fuel polishing services.  He believes what broke it all loose was a very rough passage with low fuel levels.

Regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm # 387, currently in Cartagena




On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 5:41 PM John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
Hi Bernd,
     When I purchased SM37 in 2016 the previous owner stressed to me to always keep the tank full and to always use the Baja filter.  He said in the 16 years he had her no one drop of fuel went into the tank other than through the Baja.  He did two circumnavigations and claims to never have had an issue.  I followed his advice.
A year into my ownership, I performed maintenance changing out the Racor filter and the Volvo engine filter.  Both were clean.  I intentionally ran the diesel tank dry and used a boroscope to inspect the tank and found it also spotless.    I continued to use the Baja filter and also add a Biocide each time I fill up.  
 
 There are two reasons to keep the tank full, one is it prevents condensation from forming in the tank as temperature changes.  Gas expands and contracts with temperature and draws in moisture.  In a climate with daily temperature changes the cycle can pull in a notable amount of moisture after a period.  The moisture aids in the growth of bio-organisms that feed on diesel.   Second reason at least  for me in the Atlantic and Caribbean, is to have the ability to run from a hurricane at a moments notice.  Amels have large tanks which give them excellent range in a pinch I like to have that capability.

   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA   



On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...> wrote:

Why fill up your tank to the max when you know where you want to go?

I think filling it up to the max only makes sense when you go for a really long passage and then you add some anti diesel bug adds.
When you fly on an airliner to your boat they only take as much fuel as they need plus alternate, contingency and a bit more for unforeseens.

--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal








--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Howes fuel treatment

Dan Carlson
 

There is a third reason to keep the tank reasonably full.  As the tank gets closer to empty the sloshing of the remaining fuel at lower levels will begin to stir up that sludge cocktail at the bottom and it will begin to enter your fuel system.  You can see it in the Racor bowls, if may increase your vacuum gauge if you have it in the Racor and it can clog your fuel line.   

Last season another boater (non Amel) had engine trouble and changed his fuel filter. He then experienced air seeping into his fuel lines around the Racor connections.  In the end it turned out that was because his fuel line was so clogged.  He borrowed my suction fluid extractor and sucked about 20 liters of crud and fuel off the bottom of his tank before he had it clean enough to proceed.  When they were stopped they were not in a location with easy access to fuel polishing services.  He believes what broke it all loose was a very rough passage with low fuel levels.

Regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, sm # 387, currently in Cartagena




On Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 5:41 PM John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
Hi Bernd,
     When I purchased SM37 in 2016 the previous owner stressed to me to always keep the tank full and to always use the Baja filter.  He said in the 16 years he had her no one drop of fuel went into the tank other than through the Baja.  He did two circumnavigations and claims to never have had an issue.  I followed his advice.
A year into my ownership, I performed maintenance changing out the Racor filter and the Volvo engine filter.  Both were clean.  I intentionally ran the diesel tank dry and used a boroscope to inspect the tank and found it also spotless.    I continued to use the Baja filter and also add a Biocide each time I fill up.  
 
 There are two reasons to keep the tank full, one is it prevents condensation from forming in the tank as temperature changes.  Gas expands and contracts with temperature and draws in moisture.  In a climate with daily temperature changes the cycle can pull in a notable amount of moisture after a period.  The moisture aids in the growth of bio-organisms that feed on diesel.   Second reason at least  for me in the Atlantic and Caribbean, is to have the ability to run from a hurricane at a moments notice.  Amels have large tanks which give them excellent range in a pinch I like to have that capability.

   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA   



On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...> wrote:

Why fill up your tank to the max when you know where you want to go?

I think filling it up to the max only makes sense when you go for a really long passage and then you add some anti diesel bug adds.
When you fly on an airliner to your boat they only take as much fuel as they need plus alternate, contingency and a bit more for unforeseens.

--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal


Re: Engine Mounts and Decoupling Vetus/Engine Block

eric freedman
 

Woody,

You adjust the engine mounts with the tool against the transmission output flange.

Once the tool is centered on the flange you then continue to adjust the mounts until there is a plus or minus  .002 clearance between the flange and tool all the way around.. That means the shafts are perfectly aligned.

You then remove the tool and drop the engine back on to the mounts and tighten the engine mounts—USE new nylocks. You can then reassemble the drive chain. I don’t know if you have to  cut the connecting bolts to disassemble the assembly. If you do you can use threaded rod and nylocks to replace the cutoff bolts.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 11:51 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Engine Mounts and Decoupling Vetus/Engine Block

 

That’s all really helpfull, thanks for that Herbert. So you slide the tool back and forth on the shaft to get the alignment right before bringing the engine and shaft back  together after the jobs are done? Unfortunately i’ll Still have to remove the shaft alternator to get to the leak on the flywheel bell housing I think :/ but certainly feel more comfortable abor starting the job now.

Woody


Re: Howes fuel treatment

John Clark
 

Hi Bernd,
     When I purchased SM37 in 2016 the previous owner stressed to me to always keep the tank full and to always use the Baja filter.  He said in the 16 years he had her no one drop of fuel went into the tank other than through the Baja.  He did two circumnavigations and claims to never have had an issue.  I followed his advice.
A year into my ownership, I performed maintenance changing out the Racor filter and the Volvo engine filter.  Both were clean.  I intentionally ran the diesel tank dry and used a boroscope to inspect the tank and found it also spotless.    I continued to use the Baja filter and also add a Biocide each time I fill up.  
 
 There are two reasons to keep the tank full, one is it prevents condensation from forming in the tank as temperature changes.  Gas expands and contracts with temperature and draws in moisture.  In a climate with daily temperature changes the cycle can pull in a notable amount of moisture after a period.  The moisture aids in the growth of bio-organisms that feed on diesel.   Second reason at least  for me in the Atlantic and Caribbean, is to have the ability to run from a hurricane at a moments notice.  Amels have large tanks which give them excellent range in a pinch I like to have that capability.

   Regards,  John

John Clark
SV Annie SM 37
Brunswick GA   



On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:13 AM Bernd Spanner <bernd.spanner@...> wrote:

Why fill up your tank to the max when you know where you want to go?

I think filling it up to the max only makes sense when you go for a really long passage and then you add some anti diesel bug adds.
When you fly on an airliner to your boat they only take as much fuel as they need plus alternate, contingency and a bit more for unforeseens.

--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal


Re: Howes fuel treatment

Herbert Lackner
 

Bernd, 

the SN tank (I assume that SN119 is exact the same as SN120) has about 5l fuel (or a cocktail of fuel and water...) at the bottom of the tank that will stay there if you run it empty. I know it because we pumped out all fuel when we had water in the fuel last spring.
The original Volvo water seperator is not enough, we installed a Racor filter with water separator after the volvo water separator and water startet to collect there that just ran through the (almost empty) Volvo water separator.  When the Volvo alarm lamp turned on the Racor was already full with water, and some water was already in the fuel filter installed at the engine. Without the additional Racor we would have been in serious troubles on our way to hawaii. it is a must to install one on the SN if it is not there.
If you have water in your tank (and it is more likely to get water in your tank in the carribean than in the med) it will be a bigger problem if you do not have a good filled tank, the less fuel you have with some nice waves the more the water at the bottom will be mixed with the diesel. I did underestimate this effect.  Simply adding fuel from the jerry cans and filling up the tank made a big difference in the hourly amount of water we had in the water separator.

We used a vacuum pump that can be used for the oil change (with a very thin flexible but stiff hose) to reach the bottom of the tank , not beeing hindered by the baffle-plates.

keeping you tank full is a wise decision

herbert, SN120, Pacific Mexico



Re: BOW THRUSTER

 

Pietro and Bernd,

The small gear is held in place with a bolt and a key. And yes, Loctite should be used on the bolt.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar
cloudHQPowered by
cloudHQ


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:49 PM Pietro Zaccari via Groups.Io <tsarzac=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Bernd,
I bet 5 cent that the upper gear attached to the vertical axe became loose because it’s not easy to tight the bolt, that happens to us, so I  retighten the bolt applying Loctite and I waited to dry out before pouring the oil.

Pietro
SM 364 BOLERO



Re: BOW THRUSTER

Pietro Zaccari
 

Hi Bernd,
I bet 5 cent that the upper gear attached to the vertical axe became loose because it’s not easy to tight the bolt, that happens to us, so I retighten the bolt applying Loctite and I waited to dry out before pouring the oil.

Pietro
SM 364 BOLERO


Re: Recommended solar panel brand

Matt Salatino
 

Basically, we are in vehement agreement. A buck converter is normally a component in an MPPT controller. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 11, 2020, at 1:31 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:


"Higher operating voltage panels are better" is an overgeneralization.  You need to factor in the desired performance, costs of the other parts of the system, topology of your charge controllers, and your battery bank voltage.

If your panel voltage is higher than your maximum charge voltage, you'll need a buck controller to convert it back down (and you're sacrificing the power when the panel voltage is lower than the battery voltage, as you said).  A boost controller will convert the panel voltage up to the charging voltage needed, so it's producing power from sunrise to sunset, including when shaded.  If you want low-light performance and have a high panel voltage, you need a buck-boost controller that can do both (more expensive).  You can get full performance from a boost-only controller for a low voltage panel.  Or you trade performance for cost and go with the buck-only converter with your high voltage panels, sacrificing a bunch of power in sub-optimal lighting conditions.
  • Buck controller
    • converts panel voltage down to charge voltage
    • required if your panel voltage is ever higher than your maximum charge voltage
    • sacrifices power in low light conditions (morning, evening, or when shaded) because the panel voltage is below the battery voltage
  • Boost controller
    • converts panel voltage up to charge voltage
    • collects all the power in low light conditions
    • will not protect from overcharging if your panel voltage exceeds the maximum charge voltage
  • Buck-boost controller
    • A combination of the two, always ensures you have the correct charge voltage
    • More expensive than either of the others
As you can see, a panel with a maximum voltage that is below your battery maximum charge voltage can achieve maximum performance with a cheaper boost controller.  A high voltage panel is forced to choose between lower performance with a cheaper buck controller, or higher performance with a more expensive buck-boost controller.

You're correct that a higher voltage means you can use a smaller diameter wire, but you need to weigh that against the other factors.    Kelly and I settled on a boost-only topology for our installation, since the 24V battery voltage is high enough that the wires aren't huge.  On a 12V boat, we would probably go the other way.

Blocking diodes are a very good idea if your panels can ever be shaded, but they come with a tiny performance cost.

You also want to consider how many charge controllers you need.  To get the best performance, you need a charge controller for every angle of solar panel you have.  If they're all flat on top of an arch, you can get away with a single controller for all of them, but if they're curved on a bimini, you probably want one controller per panel.  Additionally, more controllers gives you more performance when the panels are partly shaded because the panels can each find their own MPP.

For what it's worth, a recent issue of Professional Boatbuilder magazine considered the SunPower Maxeon cells to be the best on the market right now.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 11:28 AM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Joerg,
Keep in mind, that the marketing claims made by Victron (a very good company, by the way) fit most panels on the market today.
They all have to be “Marinized”, or waterproof, as they all exist in our ambient environment. No panels are designed for “indoor only” applications.
Another thing to keep in mind:
Higher operating voltage panels are better.
Most higher output panels operate at about 35-40 volts. This makes a much more useable panel, for a few reasons. One, the panel reaches a useable charging voltage earlier in the morning. An 18 volt panel might be able to charge batteries by 11:00 am, when it’s voltage is finally higher than the battery charging voltage. A 36 volt panel will be able to reach a chargeable voltage, maybe by 8:00 or 9:00 am.
Second, moving watts through a wire at 18 volts, requires a larger wire gauge than moving those same watts at 36 volts. At 36 volts, the wire can be half the diameter. This saves weight, and money, and makes for an easier installation.
This makes the job of the solar controller important. A simple PWM controller will waste much of the energy from the panels. Always go with a good MPPT controller. They cost a bit more (Victron makes good, economical units), but are more than worth it.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 11, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

Joerg


Re: Recommended solar panel brand

Ryan Meador
 
Edited

"Higher operating voltage panels are better" is an overgeneralization.  You need to factor in the desired performance, costs of the other parts of the system, topology of your charge controllers, and your battery bank voltage.
 
  • Buck controller
    • converts panel voltage down to charge voltage
    • required if your panel voltage is ever higher than your maximum charge voltage
    • sacrifices power in low light conditions (morning, evening, or when shaded) because the panel voltage is below the battery voltage
  • Boost controller
    • converts panel voltage up to charge voltage
    • collects all the power in low light conditions
    • will not protect from overcharging if your panel voltage exceeds the maximum charge voltage
  • Buck-boost controller
    • A combination of the two, always ensures you have the correct charge voltage
    • More expensive than either of the others
As you can see, a panel with a maximum voltage that is below your battery maximum charge voltage can achieve maximum performance with a cheaper boost controller.  A high voltage panel is forced to choose between lower performance with a cheaper buck controller, or higher performance with a more expensive buck-boost controller.
 
You're correct that a higher voltage means you can use a smaller diameter wire, but you need to weigh that against the other factors.    Kelly and I settled on a boost-only topology for our installation, since the 24V battery voltage is high enough that the wires aren't huge.  On a 12V boat, we would probably go the other way.
 
Blocking diodes are a very good idea if your panels can ever be shaded, but they come with a tiny performance cost.
 
You also want to consider how many charge controllers you need.  To get the best performance, you need a charge controller for every angle of solar panel you have.  If they're all flat on top of an arch, you can get away with a single controller for all of them, but if they're curved on a bimini, you probably want one controller per panel.  Additionally, more controllers gives you more performance when the panels are partly shaded because the panels can each find their own MPP.
 
For what it's worth, a recent issue of Professional Boatbuilder magazine considered the SunPower Maxeon cells to be the best on the market right now.
 
Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 11:28 AM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Joerg,
Keep in mind, that the marketing claims made by Victron (a very good company, by the way) fit most panels on the market today.
They all have to be “Marinized”, or waterproof, as they all exist in our ambient environment. No panels are designed for “indoor only” applications.
Another thing to keep in mind:
Higher operating voltage panels are better.
Most higher output panels operate at about 35-40 volts. This makes a much more useable panel, for a few reasons. One, the panel reaches a useable charging voltage earlier in the morning. An 18 volt panel might be able to charge batteries by 11:00 am, when it’s voltage is finally higher than the battery charging voltage. A 36 volt panel will be able to reach a chargeable voltage, maybe by 8:00 or 9:00 am.
Second, moving watts through a wire at 18 volts, requires a larger wire gauge than moving those same watts at 36 volts. At 36 volts, the wire can be half the diameter. This saves weight, and money, and makes for an easier installation.
This makes the job of the solar controller important. A simple PWM controller will waste much of the energy from the panels. Always go with a good MPPT controller. They cost a bit more (Victron makes good, economical units), but are more than worth it.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 11, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

Joerg

 

 


Re: Howes fuel treatment

Bernd Spanner
 

Matt,
sure thats a policy discussion.
it would be very interesting how high above the bottom of the tank the fuel is taken out of the tank and how many liters are unusable fuel. Will be a job for my endoscope cam.
best thing is for sure to have a water separator, eg Racor, in the system.
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal


Re: BOW THRUSTER

Bernd Spanner
 

Hi Bill,
the pin is in. From the sound what i hear it disconnected between the motor and the upper part of the shaft.
will check again when I am back from work in a few weeks.
what I think is strange that it worked well for a couple of times. If it would turn out to be the pin which fell out after a few runs I will weld it in.
--
Bernd
SN 119 / Cascais, Portugal


Re: Recommended solar panel brand

Matt Salatino
 

Joerg,
Keep in mind, that the marketing claims made by Victron (a very good company, by the way) fit most panels on the market today.
They all have to be “Marinized”, or waterproof, as they all exist in our ambient environment. No panels are designed for “indoor only” applications.
Another thing to keep in mind:
Higher operating voltage panels are better.
Most higher output panels operate at about 35-40 volts. This makes a much more useable panel, for a few reasons. One, the panel reaches a useable charging voltage earlier in the morning. An 18 volt panel might be able to charge batteries by 11:00 am, when it’s voltage is finally higher than the battery charging voltage. A 36 volt panel will be able to reach a chargeable voltage, maybe by 8:00 or 9:00 am.
Second, moving watts through a wire at 18 volts, requires a larger wire gauge than moving those same watts at 36 volts. At 36 volts, the wire can be half the diameter. This saves weight, and money, and makes for an easier installation.
This makes the job of the solar controller important. A simple PWM controller will waste much of the energy from the panels. Always go with a good MPPT controller. They cost a bit more (Victron makes good, economical units), but are more than worth it.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 11, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

Joerg


Re: Recommended solar panel brand

Joerg Esdorn
 

Amel installed Victron panels on the A55 as an option.  I have 400W which work well.  Those panels have blocking diodes which are supposed to improve performance in shaded locations.  This is a potentially big benefit.  They are also marinized.  See attached specs.  I believe that they are more expensive than panels made for house installations.  You might check them out.

Cheers. Joerg 

Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem