Date   

locked Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

Good BMS systems measure 0.001 Volt with +/- 2 exact. 

Balancing is over evaluated in the thread.
A good batterie setup stays balanced for years after initial balancing if needed at all. You may check on it from time to time but a good system will hand a banalce Alarm anyway.
Active balancing has no real advantage agains passive balancing. It only reuses a tiny bit of energy instead of dissipating it.

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 18:18 Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Scott,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Lithium. I'm just trying to bring some nuance to the many über-happy stories about Lithium. These things are bloody expensive and people should know what they are getting into.
Actually I'm really happy that you bought Lithium because that means you can tell me about how this works in the long term 😎.

In the electric car world you see similar discussions about charging speed and charging level. People are now starting to find out that these batteries are degrading much faster when you are a super-charging junkie and keep pushing it to 100% SOC
So if you buy a used Tesla from a predominately home charging person that doesn't use his car as racing vehicle you are much better off then when you buy a mostly supercharged race-car. There is a reason Tesla keeps all these metrics on their cars.
Latest EV cars are charging with more then 2C (250 kW) using water cooled charging cables. I really wonder how that will work out on the long term.

Anyway I don't want to talk anyone out of Lithium and if my use case was different I probably would have bough an all singing and dancing Lithium pack by now. But I would expect a 8-10 year lifespan of it.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


generator pcb board

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

Good Day Amelians
Recently, I was running system checks aboard s/v Spirit before a planned run from from Puerto Rico back up to Long Island NY.
My gen set shut down upon starting and indicated an error code of 3 flashes. That code asked for a second code, which when generated translated to requesting that a a certified onan technician be called.
My generator is an MDKAW circa 2005. 
When I ran it by my onan dealer back on LI, he indicated that it was the pcb board (the brain), or the whindings. Whindings checked out ok.
I contacted Onan, they had none in stock. They ran an engine down worldwide search, and still came up with none. Making matters worse, they said the company that makes the board for them is out of business (due to covid), and they don't expect to have a new supplier of this part in place for 6 to 9 months.
Fortunately, I found a parts supplier on ebay that has the part in stock. It's a few hundred dollars more then thru onan, but they have it, and it has been shipped.
The fellow I spoke to told me they had 12 in stock (it's now 11 lol). My board is a pcb board part # 327-1533
The company is Arkansas Valley Diesel Service. Phone # 719 9316003
If anyone else runs into this issue, I hope this will save them some aggravation.
Best Wishes to all Amelians.
Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14 


Re: New gearboxes - painted or bare alloy?

Ian Park
 

Mike,
You may have to grind the fins off the mainsail furling gearbox to fit in the mast profile. So you’d need to paint over anyway.
I changed mine three years ago. I painted with an aluminium primer and top coated with a one pot paint that matched the mast/boom. It’s worked fine, and if it gets scruffy I can paint it again.
I would say that one of the gearboxes was filled with oil, the other with grease (there was a discussion on this) The oil dripped out (in small amounts) of the seal onto the deck, so I refilled it with grease instead. Don’t know when you last removed the boom gearbox, but I take mine off every two years now to keep the outhaul shaft easy to free.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96
On passage to North Wales


Re: New gearboxes - painted or bare alloy?

Mark McGovern
 

Mike,

I would choose the paint.  The gearboxes are likely made from cast aluminum which tends to oxidize much faster than extruded aluminum does.  It also gets that unsightly white, chalky, aluminum oxide powder on it, not a nice uniform oxide coating.

If you go with the bare aluminum you will need to clean it regularly to keep it looking nice.  If you go with paint, you won't need to do any real regular maintenance other than fresh water rinsing until the paint fails.  At which time you can remove the paint, re-paint it and begin the cycle again or leave it as bare aluminum for awhile, see what happens, and decide what to do from there.

Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: New gearboxes - painted or bare alloy?

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi Eric,

I'm ordering them new from Bonfiglioli Transmission in Auckland. They are 70:1 reduction gearboxes (VF44 P1 70:1 P63 B14).

So from a cosmetic standpoint you recommend paint? Is there any other noticeable or problematic degradation?

Does anyone know how long the paint lasts?

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
Opua, NZ


On Sat, Sep 26, 2020, 8:56 PM eric <kimberlite@...> wrote:
Hi,
What make gearboxes are you using and where are you getting them?
If you leave the gearboxes unprotected they will look terrible in a short time.
I was considering having my gearboxes sand blasted and powder coated.
Any thoughts on that.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite

On September 26, 2020 at 4:10 AM "Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)" <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm ordering new gearboxes for the main furler and main outhaul. The units can be shipped with a bare alloy finish or with a 2 pot epoxy paint. I'm curious if anyone has advice one way or the other. The paint will provide protection but will undoubtly fail at some point. The aluminum alloy should self-passivate and not continually corrode/oxidize.

Any advice from experience? Any issues in running with bare alloy, besides initial appearance? I suppose it will look better than flaking paint in the long run.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
Opua, NZ

 


Re: New gearboxes - painted or bare alloy?

eric freedman
 

Hi,
What make gearboxes are you using and where are you getting them?
If you leave the gearboxes unprotected they will look terrible in a short time.
I was considering having my gearboxes sand blasted and powder coated.
Any thoughts on that.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite

On September 26, 2020 at 4:10 AM "Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)" <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm ordering new gearboxes for the main furler and main outhaul. The units can be shipped with a bare alloy finish or with a 2 pot epoxy paint. I'm curious if anyone has advice one way or the other. The paint will provide protection but will undoubtly fail at some point. The aluminum alloy should self-passivate and not continually corrode/oxidize.

Any advice from experience? Any issues in running with bare alloy, besides initial appearance? I suppose it will look better than flaking paint in the long run.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
Opua, NZ

 


New gearboxes - painted or bare alloy?

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hello everyone,

I'm ordering new gearboxes for the main furler and main outhaul. The units can be shipped with a bare alloy finish or with a 2 pot epoxy paint. I'm curious if anyone has advice one way or the other. The paint will provide protection but will undoubtly fail at some point. The aluminum alloy should self-passivate and not continually corrode/oxidize.

Any advice from experience? Any issues in running with bare alloy, besides initial appearance? I suppose it will look better than flaking paint in the long run.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
Opua, NZ


Re: Main mast Antennas

Arnold Mente
 

On my boat it was Banten antennas. I think Amel use only Banten.


Arnold 
SV Zephyr
SM 203

Am 26.09.2020 um 08:09 schrieb Slavko D. <slavko@...>:

That is the one broken. Not much left to figure out the model number. I will have to climb. 



--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Main mast Antennas

Slavko Despotovic
 

That is the one broken. Not much left to figure out the model number. I will have to climb. 


Re: Amel 54 alternator belts

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

I found this 76mm pulley for the alternator.


I will call them asap to confirm that its for 8PK belts. 

I regulated the Alternator on my lithium system down to max 100A, that safes me from ducting air into its direction. Until now I never needed the extra 70 Amps but as my extern regulator is adjustable it would be posdible to raise the Amp output. 

The cranckshaft pully can be milled down at RAM in Lamentin / Martinique

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 11:44 ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
HI Barry,

The trick is to buy an off the shelf small pulley. I think that Leece-Neville only do the one I bought, because I looked at the Pulley options on their website.  The shaft on the 175 A alternator is imperial 7/8 inch so you cannot just buy any old pulley, and they have a funny keyway. Anyhow they are easy to buy on eBay USA.

The small pulley nut can be undone with a ring spanner and an 8mm alan key that slots into the alternator shaft end. I cut off a section of alan key and slotted it into a ratchet handle as it requires considerable force to remove. Like 100 ft lbs!

The big pulley is easy to take off, just undo the four bolts and gently prise it off. It has a male flange/hub that sets into the crank pulley about 3mm.  If you actually have the small pulley to give to the machine shop it sure makes it easy to explain what you want. 

If you are going Lithium, you will clearly need a special regulator for the alternator with a heat sensor so it does not overheat, and you should maybe think about ducting cooling air directly at the alternator.

I wish I could  go back to the boat and fit it all and make sure it all works well. My original set up had two idler pulleys one top and one bottom. This improves the wrap, however the belt has a slack side and a tight side, and I was always told to only add the idler to the slack side, if possible. So I experimented with the old set up removing the idler on the tight side  ( bottom one), to no real improvement. My current view is that without any idler the wrap is 160 degrees, and with the top idler only, which is the slack side, it will be a bit better at say 170 degrees. These are both very good wraps.

How to decide on the pulley you need

I went about it by seeing what pulley Leece-Neville could supply. This pretty much nailed it as the biggest they had was the K section 8 rib one.

Then I looked at various websites that sell high output alternator kits and conversions and cribbed the Micro v belts that were used, and looked at the size of drive pulleys they used.

Many of these alternators are running very small pulleys like 50mm,  the drive pulleys are typically 150mm.

So they get the 3:1ratio from 150mm drive pulley and 50mm alt pulley.

We are much better off as the 230mm pulley machines down to 200mm, and we need 3:1 so 67mm would do it. The one I bought is 69mm max diameter but 63.5mm across the grooves. If making from new one could have 230mm drive pulley and a 75mm alt pulley. But that would be expensive and frankly unnecessary.

There are two forces to consider; We are think the small pulley as there is never a problem with the big one.

1. Belt wrap, i.e. friction. This is how much belt is in contact with the pulley. So the circumference of the pulley  x the proportion of the pulley wrap. So 160 degrees wrap is 160/360 x 2 x 3.14 x radius

2. then there is the lever effect which is also the radius. Imagine the belt being your arm and the radius being the length of the wrench, a short wrench needs a stronger arm.

3. then there is the width of the belt, i.e. number of ribs. 6,8, 10 or even 12.

Clearly by going for smaller pulleys you add load on the belt. Not only from less surface area in contact with the pulley but also the shorter turning moment.

Looking at these web sites they all use serpentine (micro v belts) and either 6, 8 or 10 ribbed belts. 

Having decided that we are in the right ball park, and seeing as Leece-Neville sell that pulley a their top one I was happy with the engineering choice.

Then I thought it would be interesting to calculate how many KW such a belt would support;

Now I am not 100% sure, so any engineer who knows better please correct me but

by the tables I think that the 8 rib belt should be able to run 8 X 0.41KW assuming 120 degree wrap and a belt tension of 10kg per rib on a 45mm pulley.

That is 3280 Watts with a belt tension of 80Kg. However we have better wrap so could add 40% = 4592 watts. 

This is 170A  at 27v for a 45mm pulley, but we are running a 63.5mm pulley so the radius is increased from 22.5 to 31.5 which is another 40%. Which works out to 238A at 27v.

So in conclusion we could reduce the belt tension slightly by experiment. You want it so that it does not slip at maximum output. I intend to watch the belt, run the engine at say 1500 rpm and engage the bow thruster. If it does not slip then, reduce the tension slightly until you get slip then tighten it a bit. I have a Kriket tension gauge. I reckon it will be at about 75kg. Which is pretty tight, but the belt gates specs about 100kg.

It has been a fun project.

Nick (in the UK)

Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros.




On 24 Sep 2020, at 14:18, Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry@...> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: Barry Connor <connor_barry@...>
Date: September 24, 2020 at 09:14:24 AST
To: ngtnewington@...
Subject: Re:  Amel 54 alternator belts

Hi again Nick,
Just wanted to add.
In my project changing to Lithium with Oliver on “Vela Nautica” help and guidance I was going to disconnect the engine alternator from the charging system.
Thanks to you I will now add the engine alternator back into the system with a charge controller for the Lithium batteries.
I have added the pulley and belt you showed to my Ebay buy list. Just got to find a machine shop here in very expensive Le Marin to machine the engine pulley.
Thanks and Very Best Regards

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique



Re: converting 24v alternator to ribbed micro v (serpentine)

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Giovanni,

The standard belt is A46
The Carlisle Gold Ribbon raw edge cogged belt is AX46

The A section belt is 1/2" across and 13/32" deep
The AX belt is 1/2" across and 11/32" deep - helps it go around corners better.

I'm not in Facebook so I can't view your video, but I did see video of the Medicane hitting Ithaca and it wasn't good.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Main mast Antennas

Sv Garulfo
 


On the 54 (at least) the two original antennas (vhf and fm/am) look physically the same but are tuned differently so are not interchangeable. The type is written on the antenna itself. On our 54, the vhf was on the starboard/front of the mast. 

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Moorea 


On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 05:06, Slavko D. <slavko@...> wrote:
Any idea if antennas are the same?


Re: Excessive usage of water maker membranes

eric freedman
 

Miles,

Thanks for the test strip idea.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Miles
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Excessive usage of water maker membranes

 

Hi Mark,

I once ruined a set of membranes by putting chlorinated dock water in the boat and then back flushing.  Since then any shore water that goes into the boat first goes through a “whole house” filter that removes chlorine.  To check this, I have test stripes that measure the amount of chlorine in water.  The test kit is sold in tropical fish stores.  My filters are over 10 years old.  I have been told that the more the filters are used, the longer they will last. When I don’t use the water maker much, the TDS goes up toward 300.  When I use the water maker for my total supply off-shore or in a very clean harbor, the TDS goes back down toward 200. 

I agree with the comments.   I also run the water without pressure for several minutes when I turn it on to get all the fresh water from the back flushing out. I agree with Alan that the pressure with fresh water could be damaging.

Regards,

Miles  s/y Ladybug,  sm216,  locked down in Le Marin, Martinique

 


Re: Onan 11kw white smoke on running

ngtnewington Newington
 

If I were you I would sort out the raw water pump leak, change the fuel filter and then run it at full load for a few hours and see how it performs.

Nick 

Amelia AML 54-019 Leros



On 25 Sep 2020, at 17:45, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

Main engine is working fine. The boat has dual RACALs before the engine and genset. The raw water output looks limp to me, I have no context for a normal flow as the boat is new to me.

I'm going on the fact there is water not diesel in the dry exhaust. The main engine is fine. The gen raw water pump is leaking a little. The raw water thru hull looks weak. The generator worked correctly despite the white smoke (watermaker/water heater/both battery chargers). I haven't use it since I saw the smoke. The coolant level looks normal to me in the expansion tank (half way between cold and hot).

  • I will change the gen fuel filter after checking for water in it. If thats it then great.
  • I will change the impellor and o-ring, hopefully, it's all there. Otherwise thats why the raw water outlet is poor.
If I still have white smoke at that point then it's time for a tech. Working today so I'll get to this Sat.


Thanks
Billy


Re: Main mast Antennas

Mark Pitt
 

Mine was delivered new with two antennas on the main mast.  One was connected to the VHF and one to the FM radio.  Both are still there.

Mark Pitt

Sabbatical III, SM#419


On 9/25/2020 1:53 PM, eric freedman wrote:

It could be for a TV antenna.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376,

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Slavko D.
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 3:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Main mast Antennas

 

There is a piece of cable hanging from the top of the main mast mast. Any idea if Amels have been originally  delivered with two antennas on the main mast? I have one on the main mast that is fine and is for the VHF radio. There is one on mizzen for AIS. The second one on main mast would be for FM/AM radio? 
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279


Re: Main mast Antennas

eric freedman
 

It could be for a TV antenna.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376,

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Slavko D.
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 3:32 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Main mast Antennas

 

There is a piece of cable hanging from the top of the main mast mast. Any idea if Amels have been originally  delivered with two antennas on the main mast? I have one on the main mast that is fine and is for the VHF radio. There is one on mizzen for AIS. The second one on main mast would be for FM/AM radio? 
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279


Re: Looking for late model SM 2000

Courtney Gorman
 

I concur Olaf's boat is beautiful and has been well cared for
Cheers
Courtney
54 # 101


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io <uster@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2020 1:55 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Looking for late model SM 2000

Contact Olaf Bauer, next year he will sell his SM2K S/V Katchopine (SM2K redline with comfort pack, no. 392).  

Sincerely, Alexandre


On Thursday, September 24, 2020, 12:58:28 PM CDT, Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347 via groups.io <joedoakes66@...> wrote:


My wife and I are former SM owners who miss the life and our Amel.  We have been shopping for 50 foot plus boat for several months and nothing comes close to our Amel.  We're interested in late model SM 2000.  

Ben and Gayle Driver
formerly SM 2000 #347

 


Re: Onan 11kw white smoke on running

Billy Newport
 

Main engine is working fine. The boat has dual RACALs before the engine and genset. The raw water output looks limp to me, I have no context for a normal flow as the boat is new to me.

I'm going on the fact there is water not diesel in the dry exhaust. The main engine is fine. The gen raw water pump is leaking a little. The raw water thru hull looks weak. The generator worked correctly despite the white smoke (watermaker/water heater/both battery chargers). I haven't use it since I saw the smoke. The coolant level looks normal to me in the expansion tank (half way between cold and hot).

  • I will change the gen fuel filter after checking for water in it. If thats it then great.
  • I will change the impellor and o-ring, hopefully, it's all there. Otherwise thats why the raw water outlet is poor.
If I still have white smoke at that point then it's time for a tech. Working today so I'll get to this Sat.


Thanks
Billy


Re: File /EX_MARINA.pdf uploaded #file-notice

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,
I got the cog wheel from Amel. I just wanted to make sure that I have the thrust washers are in the right place.
Thanks
Eric

On September 25, 2020 at 9:18 AM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Eric,

All of the exploded drawings I have of the MARINA bilge pump from each of the manufacturers that made it, show the motor and gearbox as one part.
image.png

I assume that you are looking for the Delrin gear inside the gearbox because this is the part that eventually fails.
image.png
I was able to source this Delrin gear in Turkey from Emek Marine. RIZA <cagdas"at"emekmarin.com>. I believe that he machined them from Delrin. I was also told by another reliable source that this same gearbox is used Mercedes in the 80s. I attempted to find that Mercedes part but failed to do so.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 8:16 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
Hi,
Is there more than one version of the Marina pump?
My pump has a cog wheel that drives the pump diaphragm.
I do not see it in this diagram.
Fair Winds,
Eric
Sm376 Kimberlite

On September 24, 2020 at 7:07 PM "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> wrote:

The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io group.

By: Mark McGovern

Description:
AMFA Marina Electric Sump Pump Exploded Assembly Drawing with Bill of Materials; Now a TF Marine TM 50


 


 


Re: Onan 11kw white smoke on running

Philippe BELLOIR
 

Possibly leak around the motor head gasket ???

Symptoms that indicate a defective head gasket are white or light blue smoke coming from the engine, low engine coolant and oil, a leak in the muffler or gasket. extension vessel, or mayonnaise that has formed on the oil filler cap.

 

 

De : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] De la part de Billy Newport
Envoyé : vendredi 25 septembre 2020 17:29
À : main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Objet : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan 11kw white smoke on running

 

To your point Joel, it looks to me like water in the combustion process some how. Coolant levels look fine. The raw water pump is leaking but I don't know how that could be allowing water in the combustion process.

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