Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] BATTERY LIFE, SULAJON

Claude Roessiger <nearlynothing@...>
 

I have SM#308 and we are now on the third set of
batteries. (Incidentally, we were told that one could
run both chargers together, but that now seems
countermanded.) On my old Maramu I used to get 5 years
from batteries. I don't know the answer.
Claude Roessiger

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BATTERY LIFE, SULAJON

jfolino901 <jfolino901@...>
 

I HAVE SM #347. THE HOUSE BATTERIES ARE QUICKLY COMING TO THERE END!
MY BOAT IS 2-1/2 YEARS OLD. SHE IS LOCATED IN THE CARIBBEAN. I NEVER
LET THE BATTERIES DISCHARGE BELOW 70% OF CAPACITY.
WHAT HAVE OTHERS EXPERIENCED FOR BATTERY LIFE? THE 9 BATTERIES ARE
AMEL STANDARD SEALED DELTAS AND ARE 105 AMPS EACH.
JOHN FOLINO

2003 SUPER MARAMU FOR SALE

wcreed2 <wcreed2@...>
 

THIS BOAT WAS DELIVERED ON DEC 15, 2003 IN LA ROCHELLE AFTER WHICH
MYSELF AND THREE PROFESSIONAL SAILORS MADE THE CROSSING TO
GUADELOUPE. SHE PERFORMED BEAUTIFULLY. DUE TO AN UNEXPECTED CHANGE
IN OUR FAMILY SITUATION (A NEW BABY) WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO
GET THE USE THAT I EXPECTED WHEN I MADE THE DECISION TO PURCHASE
HER. MY LOSS IS YOUR GAIN. THIS BOAT IS ABSOLUTELY LOADED. THE
SAME BOAT TODAY WOULD COST $732,000 NOT INCLUDING DELIVERY TO THE US
OR CARIBBEAN. I AM WILLING TO ENTERTAIN REASONABLE OFFERS OVER
$615,000. THE BOAT WILL BE IN GUADELOUPE UNTIL MARCH 9TH. AFTER
MARCH 14TH SHE CAN BE VIEWED IN THE BVI'S UNTIL MARCH 25. AFTER
APRIL 2 SHE CAN BE VIEWED IN BEAUFORT, NC. IF INTERESTED PLEASE
CONTACT ME AT 813-951-3439 OR BY EMAIL AT wcreed2@.... SHE IS
U.S. DOCUMENTED.

GALLATEA SM 422 H3 04

How we love our Amel SM2000

Walter Lundstrom <linneasail@...>
 

I just wanted to write a note about our experience with "Linnea" our 2002
SM2000.

We started our full time cruising adventure close to two years ago. During
our 10,000+ miles of travel, we have met and talked with over 50 owners of
new yachts of all kinds of brands, many of them far more expensive than
Amel. Every single person we talk to has gone through some sort of
frustrating "teething problems", and they all consider it to be normal (!).
At the same time, we have not had any of these "teething problems" at all
with "Linnea". We have actually learned to tune down our praise of Amel, so
we won't hurt other peoples feelings or make them jealous...

In addition, whenever we contact Amel with any questions, they are prompt,
knowledgeable, friendly, and professional. The same also goes for Joel
Potter who helped us through the buying process and advised us on what
options to buy.

Without Amel building such a great boat and without Joel doing such a great
job at informing about it, we would have not had such a pleasant, safe, and
problem free cruising experience. So, from the whole Lundstrom cruising
family. THANK YOU!!!


Walter

S/Y Linnea (Hull no.366)
Gail, Walter, Tatiana, Drake & Rex Lundstrom

Overhaul electric motors

Willem J. Kroes <w.kroes@...>
 

Hallo Amel owners,

As second owner of 'Kavanga', a 1992 Santorin, I am preparing the
boat this winter for a longer trip this sommer. In that proces I
want to overhaul the electric motors for the main sail and more in
particular the gear boxes attached to these motors.
The motor attached to the mast came off without any problem, but the
one attached to the boom gives me problems. Although I removed the
two screws it will not come off. I can feel coupling between the
Anderson line tender on top of the boom and the shaft coming out of
the gear box.
Is there anyone who knows the tric?

Best Regards,

Willem J. Kroes

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] RE: Icemakers

Joel F. Potter <jfpottercys@...>
 

Hi Randy,

Of course my mention of power supply should have been 220 volt not 200 volt.
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused anyone by the typing error. There
is a convenient drain as well near the clothes washer dryer. My friends in
the refrigeration business say that the energy consumption difference
between top and side opening icemakers are truly negligible. The old style
side openers seem to be more reliable that the newer generation top opening
units. Being located closer to midships in the installation next to the
washer dryer would minimize the effects that heeling would have on spillage.

All the best,
Joel F. Potter
Amel Super Maramu # 400, MARY BROWN

Re: Icemakers

Randy Kilmon <drifter01us@...>
 

Hello Joel,
We enjoyed your letter to Mrs Cronheim, and were
interested particularly in your comments pertaining to
icemakers. We, too, have considered installing an
icemaker but have gone no further than preliminary
thinking. We have wondered, however, whether an
icemaker which could be installed in the space
currently holding the dishwasher (which we never use).
That "box" already has a drain. Also, such an
installation would be somewhat more energy efficient,
as it would be "top-access" and the cold would not
spill out when one opened the door.
Do you know whether or not an icemaker's components
could be configured to fit into the dishwasher
enclosure?
Many thanks,
Randy Kilmon
"Drifter" SM 2000 #240




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Re: Icemakers

Randy Kilmon <drifter01us@...>
 

Hello Joel,
We enjoyed your letter to Mrs Cronheim, and were
interested particularly in your comments pertaining to
icemakers. We, too, have considered installing an
icemaker but have gone no further than preliminary
thinking. We have wondered, however, whether an
icemaker which could be installed in the space
currently holding the dishwasher (which we never use).
That "box" already has a drain. Also, such an
installation would be somewhat more energy efficient,
as it would be "top-access" and the cold would not
spill out when one opened the door.
Do you know whether or not an icemaker's components
could be configured to fit into the dishwasher
enclosure?
Many thanks,
Randy Kilmon
"Drifter" SM 2000 #240




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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] (no subject)

Joel F. Potter <jfpottercys@...>
 

Dear Mrs. Cronheim,

Thank you for your recent posting on the Amel Owners Group. Your statements
reflect the experiences of a vast majority of our Amel Clients and it's nice
to have praise for a job well done.

Thank you for your kind words regarding our advertising. As long as I'm not
at (or over) my deadline, writing about Amels is a very satisfying thing to
do. I have the best job in the world. They even pay me.

Here are some answers to your questions:

An ice maker is a nice addition especially for North Americans who put
ice in all manner of drink. My European Pals cringe when I put ice in a
single malt but that's the way my parents raised me. The icemaker, usually
a U-LINE product, mounts next to the washer dryer on the Millennium model,
just where the liquor locker now is. I recommend installing a 200 volt unit
to be powered by an appropriate 24 volt to 220 volt inverter. Ice makers
use lots of power initially when first started, then not a lot to maintain
the ice made once the unit is cold. An inverter allows the ice maker to
draw power as it needs it without having to employ the genset set when at
anchor or sailing or otherwise away from shore power. It works very well
and all my clients who did this are glad they did.

Although most folks really enjoy their dishwasher, some never ever use it.
I don't mention it, generally, in my ads because on first blush, most think
it is an extravagance. Actually, it uses less than 4 gallons of water and
heats the water up to about 160 degrees Fahrenheit so it uses little more
than hand washing a full days worth of dishes and gets them cleaner by
virtue of the very hot water. I have never had anyone delete it for storage
but I think Amel has done it for a couple of European buyers.

The ULTRA package is, essentially, an option package tailored to what our
North American clients usually order. There are no real unique or special
items, just a grouping of what my clients almost always order. A.. Super
Maramus built today have red rub rails and waterlines. You could paint them
with polyurethane but then they would scratch more easily and not be able to
be polished to remove minor blemishes. Amel has a policy of not
incorporating new design features into older boats in most
circumstances...that's how we sell new ones! Amel will upgrade battery
chargers but not the bigger battery box itself. Too expensive and too much
ripping stuff apart...

Thanks again for your support. I wish you and Charlie many many many more
happy years on your Amel. When you decide to sell, don't show people my old
ads. Let me write new ones for you...

All the best,
Joel F. Potter
AMEL Super Maramu # 400, MARY BROWN

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] (no subject)

jboucharla@...
 

Well done Ruth.
I trust Charlie and you are well and happy.
All the best from Tokyo where all is not best since I'm landbound presently.

Big hugs to both of you,

Jean

(No subject)

svmalaika@...
 

The following message was sent to Joel Potter:

Hello Mr. Potter,

       Charlie and I picked up our new Amel in La Rochelle in July 2001 and
since then have enjoyed immensely our home that is the product of Mr. Amel's
legendary and deservedly praised boatbuilding philosophy and the workmanship and
devotion of every member of his team.  When we visited the yard in April
2000, we owned Malaika I, our very special Maramu #102, and had no intention of
buying another boat.  It was precisely the excellence throughout the Amel
building process that seeped through the conscious and proved convincing.  In
contrast to the orderly and spotlessly clean Amel yard,  I'd heard numerous stories
of the chaos, carelessness and lack of skill and caring that exists in other
yards throughout the world.  As a novice sailor, my habit since I met Charlie
was to read, listen to and watch keenly for any potential danger associated
with sailboats, because retirement increasingly appeared to mean more time
aboard.  Disaster at sea stories were my daily fare.  On those I kept detailed notes
of what went wrong, with a column that tracked how Malaika stacked up (very
well, thank you; I have concluded that on an Amel I am as safe as one can be
aboard a small yacht at sea).  In La Rochelle, the Amel yachts were perfection,
reflecting the workers' professionalism and pride in well-honed skills.  This
perfection and precision of effort were powerful statements.  An added
persuasion was the respect shown these workers by the extremely small but talented
sales and administrative staff.  (Rightly or wrongly I regard you as being one
of these persons--I met you briefly aboard an Amel, in Annapolis)  I began to
want one of these beautiful and safe yachts as my home. 
       Almost three years and over 10,000 nm later I still believe Amel boats
are perfect, and even moreso the attentiveness of the after-purchase support 
and administrative staff.  I have wondered at times how these people maintain
family lives because their dedication to Amel buyers is so complete. 
       Mr. Potter, I could write much more in praise of the Amel crew and
yachts, and why I am adamant in support of your e-mail (Crusader Debacle), but
you have much to do and I have a couple of other items to raise.
       First, for some time I have meant to write and compliment you on your
monthly advertisements in Blue Water Sailing.  The ads are excellent all
'round.   Despite the monthly appearance, you manage to make your pages fresh, with
a new angle almost every time (December and January's issues probably meant
you were having a well-deserved vacation).  I know and appreciate the
difficulty of that.  I confess that I have clipped and saved in my "brag" file most ads
you have written over the past three years.  How's that for admiration?  It
is a ready-made glossy to show in the future, should we become too old to sail
and must sell instead.
       Second, in one of your ads you mentioned a Super Maramu Millennium
with an ice maker.  Where did they put the ice maker?  In place of the
dishwasher?  Do you know anyone who has replaced the dishwasher for storage?  If so, are
they pleased with the change?
       Third, in connection with the above, I noticed that you have not
mentioned a dishwasher since at least December.  Was that purposeful?  Has it
become storage?  An icemaker? 
       Fourth, pertaining to the Ultra Option Package:  You did not mention
it in your February offering.  Has the package changed?  Do you know if current
Super Maramu Millennium owners can purchase some of the package, for instance
the red rub rails (vice the brown) and the larger capacity batteries?  If so,
must the changes be made at La Rochelle or Hyere?  I realize I can write to
the Amel yard and will do so, but I wondered if other current owners had
mentioned interest in changing up.
       Again, if you wish support from very happy Super Maramu Millennium
owners, just ask.  We are a traveling advertising team for these amazing yachts
and have almost too many opportunities to express our views, because it seems
most of the sailing world highly values the Amel product.  What I see day after
day is an endless stream of admiration and almost awe.
      

Fair Winds,

Ruth Cronheim
S/V MALAIKA II
Roma, Italia

  
  







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Dear Christina & Lars,

whilst I try to avoid marinas wherever possible, I have noticed that some
marinas tend to bracket the rates per metre (or foot) according to overall
length. There is often a 15M changeover point from one rate per unit of
length to a slightly higher one. In other words, if you can afford a bigger
boat, then you can afford to pay more per metre for a berth. I don't know
the exact length of the Mango, but the Super Maramu is 15.98 metres (I
think). So when I have faced this problem, sometimes by saying it's 15
metres and a bit, the marina has accepted me at the up to 15 metre rate.
It's worth a try, though within Europe they often want to see the
certificate of registration too, and the overall length will be clearly
evident.

Originally I was going to buy a Santorin which was 14 metres in length, but
Amel stopped producing them. I am glad that I ended up with a Super Maramu
as the extra storage space has proven very useful as a live aboard. I am
sure too that the boat is more sea kindly in rough weather too apart from
the extra equipment that makes life more comfortable on board. I believe
that Amel told me that there is 50% more volume in the SM which all equates
to better living space.

I have no first hand experience of either the Maramu or the Mango other than
a social visit on board both models. Both have a good reputation. Based upon
my voyages in a 16 metre boat, I would say that if you can afford it, you
probably will not regret opting for the larger vessel. I guess it will
depend to some extent depend on whether you wish to make it your home or
not, and where you intend to sail to.

Regarding cruising costs, I did post a breakdown of my costs over a two year
period on my new SM2000. Although new, it did represent 25,000 nms of
cruising, so it may be of some guidance to you, although no doubt as boats
age, more needs to be replaced. If you can't find it, then drop me a note
and I will post it direct to you.

Good luck with the exams. It's not that difficult, and no doubt the
qualifications will become more of a requirement in the future in the United
States Of Europe! Maybe rightly so.

Regards

Ian Shepherd

SM # 414 'Crusader'

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

Luis Gonzalez Vallejo <l_gonzalezvallejo@...>
 

Dear Christine,
I have not information on the difference between a Mango and Maramu.The maintenance cost as I said are cheaper than for any similar boat.The 5-8% is only applied if you have to replace major equipment.
Regards
Luis

cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...> wrote:
Dear Luiz - dear all

Firstly thank you for your replies to us - they are very helpful. The
Mango we are looking at was originally Amel's own. It has therefore
some extra specs, which are worth looking at. Most importantly it has
a bow thruster, a 100 hp engine and electric furling.

We originally wanted to ask the group what their opinions on the
difference between a Maramu (not a Super Maramu) and a Mango are.
Especially because the Maramu is below 15 meters LOA and therefore
not subject to the same legal conditions as both the SM and the Mango.

However, going back to your latest email. We are slightly unclear
about your average expenditure. Do you mean that you EVERY YEAR spend
5-8% of the boat's value on maintenance? This sounds like a lot to
us - and pretty worrying in the long run.

Basically our concern with buying the Mango is whether we will end up
with a yacht that costs far more to keep and use than a Maramu, at
the same time as it offers only slightly more volume and comfort.

Again thank you all for any thoughts on these matters,

best regards,
christina and lars/ Denmark





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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...>
 

Dear Luiz - dear all

Firstly thank you for your replies to us - they are very helpful. The
Mango we are looking at was originally Amel's own. It has therefore
some extra specs, which are worth looking at. Most importantly it has
a bow thruster, a 100 hp engine and electric furling.

We originally wanted to ask the group what their opinions on the
difference between a Maramu (not a Super Maramu) and a Mango are.
Especially because the Maramu is below 15 meters LOA and therefore
not subject to the same legal conditions as both the SM and the Mango.

However, going back to your latest email. We are slightly unclear
about your average expenditure. Do you mean that you EVERY YEAR spend
5-8% of the boat's value on maintenance? This sounds like a lot to
us - and pretty worrying in the long run.

Basically our concern with buying the Mango is whether we will end up
with a yacht that costs far more to keep and use than a Maramu, at
the same time as it offers only slightly more volume and comfort.

Again thank you all for any thoughts on these matters,

best regards,
christina and lars/ Denmark

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

Luis Gonzalez Vallejo <l_gonzalezvallejo@...>
 

Dear Christine and Lars,
Some of your questions are dificult to answer, depends on countries , insurance companies , place of navegation, etc. I try::
Insurances, I strongly reccommend you to read an excellent report on Cruising World( www.cruisingworld.com), March 2004: The Crisis in Offshore Marine Insurance. My company ,based in Spain charge me an extra cost if I sail to Caribean,the only requirement is that the qualified captain or skipper must be on board when sailing, as in any other circunstances.
Harbour prices are scaled by LOA or LOAxBeam ( sq.meters), and there is not a step up for 15m more than for others, that is for my experience, obviously above 15 m the number of moorings in the marinas are less as far as the length increases, and therefore the prices are raised upper.
Maintenance for my Mango bassically consists on : Once a year the boat is on the dry dock for antifouling , anticorrosion anodes(?) replacement, minor repairs, and checking. That means 1 week and the cost in Alicante is around 1000 Eur. to 1500Eur. Besides, the engine and gen needs regulary maintenances, as for any boat, am this is not a significant cost if not major repairs. The real problem on any boat-less in Amels for the strong construction- is to mantain working the various equipments, e.g.electronics,electric pumps, batteries, refrigerators etc ... That depends mostly how old are they and how are they have been properly installed. On my 20 yrs old boat I have to replace almost all the equipment: sails, engine ,gen, electronics, fridge, .. however some are working very well since new!. The average cost to do this in the last 10 years, have been about from 5 to 8 % the actual value of the boat. For example this year I have replaced the gen, batteries , frigoboat alternator,
some navegation ligths,and some more electrical systems and the cost is around 10,000 Eur.
Compairing Mango vs S.Maramu :Mango is havier than Maramu, better designed to face bad weather and slowlier and less surface sail The maniouvre is by hand as originally fitted, but I think is better sea going whem the weather is bad , and therefore more comfortable under this circumstances. On deck, the Maramu is much better, more room, better distribution, etc.Inside Mango is very comfortable and I will not change for Maramu ,although this is a personal question. In balance I will change my Mango for a Maramu , a question of budget! mainly for the great improvement on rigging and maniouvres, the deck space and distribution, not for interiors.
Any question I can help please ask!
Regards,
Luis
christina colclough <cjcolclough@...> wrote:
--- Luis Gonzalez Vallejo
<l_gonzalezvallejo@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
I have a Mango from 1994. In some european countries
,as in my case in Spain, what is relevant is the kind
on navegation that you are allowed for, not the
length of the boat.So , if you apply for offshore
saling eg. to sail anywhere in the world you have to
get the Yacht Captain, and the boat has be
licensing for navegation Class A, it means that the
boat has to fulfill a list of requirements , mainly on
safety equipment, independently to the boats
length.On the other hand if your navegation area is
less than 60 miles from the coast, your license is for
Yacht Skipper, and your boat is licensing for Class B.
Your insurance will cover for any specific navegation.
I have not any particular problem with the 53 ft of
my Mango. Also the harbour fares depends on the LOA x
Beam, and there is not particular charge over 15 m.
Basic maintenance , is cheaper than any other similar
boat of her length. Please let me know any other
specific question on Mango.
Luis, from "Aloysius".
,
cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...> wrote:
Dear all

We are writing to you to ask for advice concerning the
pros and cons
of owning a yacht, which is larger than 15 meters LOA.


As we suppose you know, European laws, and in our case
Danish laws,
with regards yachts > 15 meters are pretty strict. To
sail within
Europe we must have a Yacht Captain 3 exam, to sail
outside European
waters a Yacht Captain 1. Pantaeneus Insurance informs
us that should
an accident happen and we do not have the required
papers, the
insurance will formally not cover, however informally
it might (the
actual decision will depend on the type of accident.
This also means
that to sail in, for example, the Carribean there must
at all times
be a captain on board with the Yacht Captain 1 and a
second person
onboard with at least a Yacht Captain 3. In all other
cases the rules
are violated and the insurance might not cover.

There are no such requirements for yachts < 15 meters

So be it, we would ofcourse get the required exams
should we buy the
Mango we currently are looking at. However our
concerns do not stop
there. We have been told that harbour prices become
much more
expensive as soon as the yacht is > 15 meters. Is this
true? And what
about the ongoing costs of maintaining a Mango? How
much should we
roughly count on spending on ordinary maintenance?

Basically what we are unclear about is whether the
extra 6 feet the
Mango has on the Maramu are worth the extra bother,
rules, red tape
and costs. Given that we would use the yacht for blue
water cruising
and hopefully long trips to far away places, we have
these following
questions in mind:

Is the living space in the Mango that much larger than
in a Maramu?
Is the comfort - both the day to day living comfort as
well as the
sailing experience - better in the Mango?
Are there other particular issues with having a yacht
15 meters,
which we should know about and consider?
Essentially is the Mango that much better than the
Maramu that all
the extra hassle is well worth it?

We fully realise that we are asking questions that
only can be
answered subjectively. However we would appreciate
your opinions,
thoughts and knowledge as we are only beginning to
venture into the
world of blue water cruising and have therefore very
little practical
experience with these matters.

Kindest regards and safe winds,

Christina and Lars
Denmark



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

christina colclough <cjcolclough@...>
 

--- Luis Gonzalez Vallejo
<l_gonzalezvallejo@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
I have a Mango from 1994. In some european countries
,as in my case in Spain, what is relevant is the kind
on navegation that you are allowed for, not the
length of the boat.So , if you apply for offshore
saling eg. to sail anywhere in the world you have to
get the Yacht Captain, and the boat has be
licensing for navegation Class A, it means that the
boat has to fulfill a list of requirements , mainly on
safety equipment, independently to the boats
length.On the other hand if your navegation area is
less than 60 miles from the coast, your license is for
Yacht Skipper, and your boat is licensing for Class B.
Your insurance will cover for any specific navegation.
I have not any particular problem with the 53 ft of
my Mango. Also the harbour fares depends on the LOA x
Beam, and there is not particular charge over 15 m.
Basic maintenance , is cheaper than any other similar
boat of her length. Please let me know any other
specific question on Mango.
Luis, from "Aloysius".
,
cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...> wrote:
Dear all

We are writing to you to ask for advice concerning the
pros and cons
of owning a yacht, which is larger than 15 meters LOA.


As we suppose you know, European laws, and in our case
Danish laws,
with regards yachts > 15 meters are pretty strict. To
sail within
Europe we must have a Yacht Captain 3 exam, to sail
outside European
waters a Yacht Captain 1. Pantaeneus Insurance informs
us that should
an accident happen and we do not have the required
papers, the
insurance will formally not cover, however informally
it might (the
actual decision will depend on the type of accident.
This also means
that to sail in, for example, the Carribean there must
at all times
be a captain on board with the Yacht Captain 1 and a
second person
onboard with at least a Yacht Captain 3. In all other
cases the rules
are violated and the insurance might not cover.

There are no such requirements for yachts < 15 meters

So be it, we would ofcourse get the required exams
should we buy the
Mango we currently are looking at. However our
concerns do not stop
there. We have been told that harbour prices become
much more
expensive as soon as the yacht is > 15 meters. Is this
true? And what
about the ongoing costs of maintaining a Mango? How
much should we
roughly count on spending on ordinary maintenance?

Basically what we are unclear about is whether the
extra 6 feet the
Mango has on the Maramu are worth the extra bother,
rules, red tape
and costs. Given that we would use the yacht for blue
water cruising
and hopefully long trips to far away places, we have
these following
questions in mind:

Is the living space in the Mango that much larger than
in a Maramu?
Is the comfort - both the day to day living comfort as
well as the
sailing experience - better in the Mango?
Are there other particular issues with having a yacht
15 meters,
which we should know about and consider?
Essentially is the Mango that much better than the
Maramu that all
the extra hassle is well worth it?

We fully realise that we are asking questions that
only can be
answered subjectively. However we would appreciate
your opinions,
thoughts and knowledge as we are only beginning to
venture into the
world of blue water cruising and have therefore very
little practical
experience with these matters.

Kindest regards and safe winds,

Christina and Lars
Denmark



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel single handed sailors-Disasters waiting to happen

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Dear Byron,

thank you for your thoughts. Your opinion differs to mine, and indeed that
of Joel Potter. Joel actually has said in his advertisements "Single handing
is a cinch". I agree with him on that. The Super Maramu is a superb boat,
and as you rightly say, very well equipped. You are right also in that there
is no better value on the market. The electric furling, remote anchoring
controls, power winches, bow thruster, electric windlass, excellent radar
and general security make it an ideal single handed boat.

I do not see why being single handed should affect anchoring at all? Can you
explain this further? How many people does it take to survey the area then
operate the switch? I further fail to see how being single handed pushes
the rig to destruction? It only takes one to handle the sail plan. As Joel
says, it's a cinch. I have never had a single problem with Amel's electric
furling system. Sail can be reduced in seconds, and any prudent single
hander will always err on the side of being under canvassed. Even short
tacking is easy to accomplish when using the superb autopilot.

Amel's docking system and the bow thruster also make leaving the dock
straight forwards too. Sure, sometimes you need to devise methods of casting
off the last line from the cockpit, but it can be done. I don't think that I
have ever encountered a problem in a marina. In fact most times, there are
people there only too willing to give a hand. If not, call the marina and
ask for help. But as I have said, I much prefer to anchor off where I can.
More breeze, less chance of theft and much more economical when you are on
board 365 days a year!

Regarding keeping watch, I agree with you that it is desirable to have
someone in the cockpit at all times, but I will say that many a time the
radar has picked up traffic well before I have seen it with my eyes. The
alarm has never failed to get my attention either.

It is not my intention to deliberately sail single handed Byron. It just
works out that way from time to time when crew have other commitments. I
would love to sail as a couple, but had my wife have liked sailing
...............! Familiar story?

I don't think that a warranty ban on single handed operation would do Amel
any favours. A Joel says, the fact that the boat can be handled by one, is
in my view, a very good testimony to its design. Even as a couple, I am sure
that you don't wake your partner when it comes to reefing or tacking? Even
couples are sailing in effect single handed during night watches.

Byron, the Super Maramu 2000 is a great boat. I have no hesitation in
keeping my boat despite what has happened. My only beef is that I have been
given the run around when there has been a proven lapse in quality.

Regards

Ian

PS I have deleted the original text as I know that those downloading by sat
phone do no wish to increase their charges unnecessarily.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

Luis Gonzalez Vallejo <l_gonzalezvallejo@...>
 

I have a Mango from 1994. In some european countries ,as in my case in Spain, what is relevant is the kind on navegation that you are allowed for, not the length of the boat.So , if you apply for offshore saling eg. to sail anywhere in the world you have to get the Yacht Captain, and the boat has be licensing for navegation Class A, it means that the boat has to fulfill a list of requirements , mainly on safety equipment, independently to the boats length.On the other hand if your navegation area is less than 60 miles from the coast, your license is for Yacht Skipper, and your boat is licensing for Class B. Your insurance will cover for any specific navegation. I have not any particular problem with the 53 ft of my Mango. Also the harbour fares depends on the LOA x Beam, and there is not particular charge over 15 m. Basic maintenance , is cheaper than any other similar boat of her length. Please let me know any other specific question on Mango.
Luis, from "Aloysius".
,
cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...> wrote:
Dear all

We are writing to you to ask for advice concerning the pros and cons
of owning a yacht, which is larger than 15 meters LOA.

As we suppose you know, European laws, and in our case Danish laws,
with regards yachts > 15 meters are pretty strict. To sail within
Europe we must have a Yacht Captain 3 exam, to sail outside European
waters a Yacht Captain 1. Pantaeneus Insurance informs us that should
an accident happen and we do not have the required papers, the
insurance will formally not cover, however informally it might (the
actual decision will depend on the type of accident. This also means
that to sail in, for example, the Carribean there must at all times
be a captain on board with the Yacht Captain 1 and a second person
onboard with at least a Yacht Captain 3. In all other cases the rules
are violated and the insurance might not cover.

There are no such requirements for yachts < 15 meters

So be it, we would ofcourse get the required exams should we buy the
Mango we currently are looking at. However our concerns do not stop
there. We have been told that harbour prices become much more
expensive as soon as the yacht is > 15 meters. Is this true? And what
about the ongoing costs of maintaining a Mango? How much should we
roughly count on spending on ordinary maintenance?

Basically what we are unclear about is whether the extra 6 feet the
Mango has on the Maramu are worth the extra bother, rules, red tape
and costs. Given that we would use the yacht for blue water cruising
and hopefully long trips to far away places, we have these following
questions in mind:

Is the living space in the Mango that much larger than in a Maramu?
Is the comfort - both the day to day living comfort as well as the
sailing experience - better in the Mango?
Are there other particular issues with having a yacht > 15 meters,
which we should know about and consider?
Essentially is the Mango that much better than the Maramu that all
the extra hassle is well worth it?

We fully realise that we are asking questions that only can be
answered subjectively. However we would appreciate your opinions,
thoughts and knowledge as we are only beginning to venture into the
world of blue water cruising and have therefore very little practical
experience with these matters.

Kindest regards and safe winds,

Christina and Lars
Denmark



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

advice needed - above or below 15 meters LOA

cjcolclough <cjcolclough@...>
 

Dear all

We are writing to you to ask for advice concerning the pros and cons
of owning a yacht, which is larger than 15 meters LOA.

As we suppose you know, European laws, and in our case Danish laws,
with regards yachts > 15 meters are pretty strict. To sail within
Europe we must have a Yacht Captain 3 exam, to sail outside European
waters a Yacht Captain 1. Pantaeneus Insurance informs us that should
an accident happen and we do not have the required papers, the
insurance will formally not cover, however informally it might (the
actual decision will depend on the type of accident. This also means
that to sail in, for example, the Carribean there must at all times
be a captain on board with the Yacht Captain 1 and a second person
onboard with at least a Yacht Captain 3. In all other cases the rules
are violated and the insurance might not cover.

There are no such requirements for yachts < 15 meters

So be it, we would ofcourse get the required exams should we buy the
Mango we currently are looking at. However our concerns do not stop
there. We have been told that harbour prices become much more
expensive as soon as the yacht is > 15 meters. Is this true? And what
about the ongoing costs of maintaining a Mango? How much should we
roughly count on spending on ordinary maintenance?

Basically what we are unclear about is whether the extra 6 feet the
Mango has on the Maramu are worth the extra bother, rules, red tape
and costs. Given that we would use the yacht for blue water cruising
and hopefully long trips to far away places, we have these following
questions in mind:

Is the living space in the Mango that much larger than in a Maramu?
Is the comfort - both the day to day living comfort as well as the
sailing experience - better in the Mango?
Are there other particular issues with having a yacht > 15 meters,
which we should know about and consider?
Essentially is the Mango that much better than the Maramu that all
the extra hassle is well worth it?

We fully realise that we are asking questions that only can be
answered subjectively. However we would appreciate your opinions,
thoughts and knowledge as we are only beginning to venture into the
world of blue water cruising and have therefore very little practical
experience with these matters.

Kindest regards and safe winds,

Christina and Lars
Denmark

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel single handed sailors-Disasters waiting to happen

Luis Gonzalez Vallejo <l_gonzalezvallejo@...>
 

Single handed is a personal decision independent of the type of boat. In case of taking the choice of sailing alone the sailor is facing an extreme risk condition and therefore anything can happen including the worst for him for and his boat,including a collision with other boat. I am a happy owner of an Amel Mango since many years and I never have sailed alone.In any case the Amels are big boats which need to rely on mechanical,hydraulic and/or electrical systems to handle in comfort not being designed for single sailors.
Luis ,from "Aloysious", Alicante-Spain

sailslady@... wrote:
Dear Fellow Amel Owners, Jean-Jacques LEMMONIER and Joel Potter

As an extremely happy buyer of an Amel for the past 30 months I am dismayed with the comments from one of our Amel family owners. My Amel is masterfully built. There is no comparison in value between an Amel and any other yacht even twice the price! The factory has no equal in quality and workmanship. I have been treated more than fairly by every Amel Company person and representative. That is Amel's reputation and I do not like seeing it damaged.

Actually I am shocked that any reasonable Amel owner would consider sailing an Amel singlehandedly anywhere any time except moving it around his own marina for service or repair. I am embarrased that one of our Amel owners would air his exploits and foolish sailing activities as a singlehander and expect the Amel people to be happy with him. I certainly am not. I would tell him to his face if I ever see him.

It is common knowledge that it is not good seamanship to sail any boat without a proper lookout at all times. It is frowned upon by the US Coast Guard and all insurance companies that I know of will NOT INSURE SINGLE HANDED SAILORS for hull damage for bluewater cruising. Amels are for couples to cruise not singles.

I have personally seen in the past six months the damage and idiocy of singlehanded Amel sailors. They have trouble anchoring, entering and leaving moorings and slips and push their rigs to distruction because they have a "first year warranty" on every dumb thing they do.

It is my suggestion to Amel that they immediately put an exclusion in their "first year warranty" that any Amel being sailed one handed at any time during the first year any damage,loss or breakdown of ANY piece of equipment not be honored by the factory! In addition Amel should cease from selling any new Amel to anyone who indicates in any way that their new Amel will be sailing single handedly the first year.

I feel that Amel has been taken advantage of by too many buyers who are now sailing singlehandedly and doing damage unnecessarily to Amel's reputation and to the resale values to all our Amels by abusing their boats.

"Thank you" to all you interested Amel owners who have taken the time to read this letter. I hope you agree and let Amel know of your support and ideas on this singlehanded sailor problem.

Sincerely

Byron Henderson
Sailslady Super Maramu 2000 Hull #340

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