Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

amelforme
 

Greetings everyone,

O.K.! Alright already!! I can't believe how many of you
have asked me to weigh in on the watermaker issue. I really
don't want to become a defacto referee. Please remember,
although my opinions may be tempered by my nearly 25 year
long relationship with AMEL as their marketing man in the
Americas, my comments come from Joel the AMEL 54 owner and
not from AMEL. That is important.

I have never received a satisfactory, straight up, cut and
dried answer from Dessalator on the issue of the salt
sensor. Always polite, always gentle, but no answer. I
have accepted the obvious, they just don't want to say
anything.

I think that guys like Gary Silver and Eric Freedman are a
true benefit to us all. I know both of these gents as I
sold them their boats. They are both extremely
knowledgeable and capable, and without ego problems. Their
desire is for a common body of knowledge and experience
which will benefit us all. They'll get mad at me for
telling you this but Gary built, with his own two hands, a
two place aerobatic bi-plane that he tumbles around in. If
you ask him real nice he'll take you up in it and make you
hurl so hard you'll wish you were never born. Eric has an
electrical engineering degree from MIT and he has forgotten
more about electricity than most of us will ever know. They
are not trouble makers. They are valuable. They never
incite. The vast majority of you are the same, just wishing
to promote the common good. No agendas. Nothing to prove.
Good folks.

On the other hand, I have always noticed, with AMEL folks
and otherwise that it's 10% of the people who have 90% of
the problems. This 10% crew are always looking for
retribution because NOTHING is without blame. NOTHING is
ever their fault. The world isn't a fair place and this
group feels particularly persecuted.

Boats are machines. Machines wear with use. Shit happens.
It comes from my experience and not loyalty that our AMEL
boats have far less problems than ANY other boat from ANY
manufacturer. I have spent over 30 years
sailing/building/fixing/selling all kinds of cruising
sailboat until in the last ten years going more or less
exclusively with AMEL with the odd brokerage boat the
exception. Our AMEL boats are not trouble prone. I am sure
of this.

To suggest that Olivier Beaute or Jean Jacques Lemonnier are
less than 100% forthright is just plain wrong. Jean Jacques
is the fairest person I know with the wisdom of Solomon.
That said, don't try to bully him into anything. You will
go backwards gently. Olivier could not be involved in a
conspiracy if his life depended on it. He is just not
capable of being dishonest. To suggest they know that there
is a defect in our watermakers is ridiculous. I'm not waving
the company flag here. This is just simply the truth.

Consider this.I pay for my boats that I use as demonstrators
here in America. I don't pay for my spare parts assortment
that comes with the boat. Every boat I have received from
AMEL has a spare salt sensor in the inventory. Why would
they incur the expense of sending me something that has no
value or use if they indeed knew that were the case?

I will ask Jean Jacques to address our issue personally with
Dessalator and then I'll step back. No promises.

The comments from most owners about maintenance are correct.
Use your watermakers, change your thinking if need be.wash
your masts, booms, rigging, decks, dinghy's, dive gear. Use
water abundantly. It's good for you. If you run your
watermakers three times a week, it will last a long, long
time.

Unless you will not use it for more than 7 months, DON'T
PICKLE IT. Just flush it with it's own product water.
Seriously I have years of experience with boats that stay
dormant while for sale. The ones that are pickled have 95%
of the failures. If you do pickle it, FOLLOW THE
INSTRUCTIONS. Like most things, if enough is plenty, more
isn't better. Mix the solution carefully.

Let's see now, who haven't' I pissed off yet.

My intention here is to be helpful. As an AMEL marketing
man, I can say that our boats retain value better than any
others I can think of. This is mainly because of all of
you. You are our best salespeople. I am happy to direct
potential buyers to our site with only a brief admonition
about bad apples.

Look at other boat manufacturers independent owner groups.
Yikes! These people are angry!! Let's not bite the hand
that feeds us. If you have a problem, gently and carefully
address the source. If that doesn't work, seek more
aggressive means in gradual steps. You can privately address
your concerns to a number of sources, me included if need
be, for a point in the right direction to solve your issues,
but not on the site. But please, it's best not to belabor
things on the site and don't fly your dirty laundry here.

I'll stop now.

All the best,
Joel F. Potter,
AMEL 54 # 14, HOLLIS


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

Anne and John Hollamby <hollamby@...>
 

Hello John,
Congratulations on getting a 54.I should be happy to hear your views on the plusses and minuses over your 53, my address is annejohnat melita.net.
As you keep your boat in the south of France and do not do extended cruises and clearly use mains water most of the time there seems little reason to have a watermaker. I took Olivier's advice and have never pickled my 160 ltr machine. I use it as my sole source of fresh water and thus can flush it with product water before and after use. Mains water,especially in marinas, often contains relatively high levels of chlorine presumably because the long runs of piping on the pontoons is conducive of bacterial pollution. Since chlorine is damaging to the membranes you would be ill advised to use it to flush your system and ,I suppose, would be better advised to find out from the manufacturers what to use to pickle and preserve the membranes against the day when you may have to depend on it. This is what PUR do with those emergency hand operated watermakers which have to be serviced once a year by an agent.
There is clearly a fault in the version of the watermaker which is adapted to Amels specification because the machine claims to have an alarm and salt sensor when it does not. I have had three different water makers over the twelve years that we cruised as far as Australia and all relied on tasting a sample before putting product into the tank. That the Amel version gives no warning is an extremely dangerous fact of life for unwary long distance liveaboards and it is not surprising that the subject has suffered such an airing on the site.
At the end of the day all equipment is likely to fail at some time or another and the taste test is so simple and reliable that all the other suggestions are high tech complications. I have fitted a TDS meter only because it was easier than sourcing and fitting a two way junction and faucet in Malta so that product went to waste until approved by the PTT (Pink Tongue Test) and then manually diverted to the tanks
Whilst I sympathise with the latest postings complaining about the flood of stuff on this subject the fact remains that if one were to rely on sensors etc. one would be running a big risk crossing big oceans.
Enjoy your new boat.
Best wishes from Anne and John, SM 319

----- Original Message -----
From: dlm48@...
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker



In a message dated 25/06/2006 12:11:53 GMT Daylight Time,
j.c.mcdougall@... writes:

am therefore ignorant of the recommended procedures for maintaining the
watermaker and the manual is not helpful in this respect. Could I ask if
someone could supply a brief schedule of recommended procedure for
maintenance as "pickling", TDS meters and other things mentioned are new and
unknown territory for me. My watermaker will not be heavily used.

Thanks in advance,
John McDougall
"54" - no. 21

Dont pickle it and use it as much as possible - if you dont intend to use it
lots you should not have got a watermaker - watermakers love to be used -
dont use them and you will get lots of problems - perhaps before you added this
watermaker to the boat you should have done some research and understood the
operation as well as the plusses and minuses of a watermaker.

regards

David


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

John McDougall <j.c.mcdougall@...>
 

Hi,

I do agree that the comments and messages regarding the watermaker have
become overpowering but before the the subject is closed, could I ask for a
little help. In April I took delivery of my "54" which is equipped with the
160l/hr watermaker. My previous SM did not have a watermaker and I only
specified this item now because the "54" uses fresh water for the toilets
and Amel would not alter the specification in order to use seawater for the
toilets.

I am therefore ignorant of the recommended procedures for maintaining the
watermaker and the manual is not helpful in this respect. Could I ask if
someone could supply a brief schedule of recommended procedure for
maintenance as "pickling", TDS meters and other things mentioned are new and
unknown territory for me. My watermaker will not be heavily used.

Thanks in advance,
John McDougall
"54" - no. 21

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]On Behalf Of jose.esteller
Sent: 25 June 2006 09:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker


Hi all,

I agree with the mail of Eric Mejean

I am owner of Amel boats from 15 years ( one Maramu 3 years, a first SM N°
51 during 11 years and now a second SM N° 426 )
I can say that i had not mayor problemes with this 3 boats, and every time
in every part of Atlantic or Mediterranean I found the assistance of Amel,
calling by phone or via email, and always receiving the spare parts that I
need , with not any mistake, Amel beeing one of the constructors that has
in
computer all the story of each boat.

Best regards at all

JOSE SM 426 SILVIA IV

----- Original Message -----
From: "G D" <maramu@...>
To: <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

> Dear All
> I have been following this forum for many years. I found most of the
> topics
> discussed very interesting as at the end, through the discussions, we
got
> to
> know our boat better. (I take this opportunity to thank all the members
> for
> their helpful contributions)
> Sometimes ago appeared the Watermaker issue. I initially found the
topics
> interesting, and then I quickly become a bit uncomfortable with the
> different postings made by certain members. It seems that some of them
> have
> some interests in keeping the topic alive again and again by bringing
back
> the same old issues which have been already discussed long time ago.
Then
> I
> got the feeling that there was an obvious hidden agenda and the
exchanges
> were lacking of honesty. Let's be serious for a while. How ones can
claims
> that the failure of the Watermaker has spoiled the washing machine, the
> dish
> washer the pumps and the water heater not to mention other stories which
I
> read which don't make any sense. This is purely ridiculous. I don't even
> want to argue on the technical feasibility of such scenarios as they
sound
> so unrealistic. I'm sorry to say that some of the stories which I read
> here
> have more to do with the sailor than the boat or its equipments........
> I have no interest neither with Dessalator nor Amel. I'm just the happy
> owner of my SM. Obviously through my 7 years of ownership I had some
> breakdown, I did change some equipments as every year, progresses are
made
> in terms of efficiency, electronic improves as well as many new
equipments
> are launched. With regards to my Dessalator, it has done his job
> extremely
> well although through all these years I have made some improvements or
had
> to change some parts. To me this is absolutely normal.
> Don't expect to own a sailing boat without having to make some repairs,
> carry out extensive maintenance and regularly change some equipments. It
> is
> part of sailing.... Owning a boat is not cheap.
> Now let's be practical gentlemen. If your watermaker has spoiled your
life
> and you boat for so many years then buy another one and do what you
think
> you should do against the manufacturer. It is as simple as that. Accept
> the
> principle that some equipment may fail. This is not a sufficient reason
to
> state that they are shameful equipments. Even the most sophisticated
> equipments can fail. We are hundreds on this forum to make us of the
same
> boat without having the kind of problems that you are mentioning. Please
> spare us the kind of discussion that you are overflowing the forum with
as
> long as you have an hidden agenda. Share what can be interesting for all
> of
> us in an honest spirit. Don't make use of this forum to serve your own
> interests. I believe that this is the spirit of this forum founder. To
> finish spare me your answer as I believe it is of no interest to the
rest
> of
> the members. I don't want to open an additional sterile polemic.
>
> Wit best regards
> Erick MEJEAN
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "mcymabm@..." <mcymabm@...>
> Reply-To: amelyachtowners@...
> To: Forum US <amelyachtowners@...>
> Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker
> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 04:24:04 +0200 (CEST)
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> I am very glad with your last post on this forum.
>
> As to the letter to send to J.J. Lemonnier, I am about to write it. Did
> you
> send it as registered mail?
>
>
> I quite agree that this behaviour is breaking the Trades Description
Act,
> or
> similar in other countries. Does that mean that you are contemplating
> suing
> Dessalator in a legal action?.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
> Blue Marine
> SM 311
>
>
>
>
> mcymabm@...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail.
> Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.
>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

jose.esteller <jose.esteller@...>
 

Hi all,

I agree with the mail of Eric Mejean

I am owner of Amel boats from 15 years ( one Maramu 3 years, a first SM N 51 during 11 years and now a second SM N 426 )
I can say that i had not mayor problemes with this 3 boats, and every time in every part of Atlantic or Mediterranean I found the assistance of Amel, calling by phone or via email, and always receiving the spare parts that I need , with not any mistake, Amel beeing one of the constructors that has in computer all the story of each boat.

Best regards at all

JOSE SM 426 SILVIA IV

----- Original Message -----
From: "G D" <maramu@...>
To: <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker


Dear All
I have been following this forum for many years. I found most of the topics
discussed very interesting as at the end, through the discussions, we got to
know our boat better. (I take this opportunity to thank all the members for
their helpful contributions)
Sometimes ago appeared the Watermaker issue. I initially found the topics
interesting, and then I quickly become a bit uncomfortable with the
different postings made by certain members. It seems that some of them have
some interests in keeping the topic alive again and again by bringing back
the same old issues which have been already discussed long time ago. Then I
got the feeling that there was an obvious hidden agenda and the exchanges
were lacking of honesty. Let's be serious for a while. How ones can claims
that the failure of the Watermaker has spoiled the washing machine, the dish
washer the pumps and the water heater not to mention other stories which I
read which don't make any sense. This is purely ridiculous. I don't even
want to argue on the technical feasibility of such scenarios as they sound
so unrealistic. I'm sorry to say that some of the stories which I read here
have more to do with the sailor than the boat or its equipments........
I have no interest neither with Dessalator nor Amel. I'm just the happy
owner of my SM. Obviously through my 7 years of ownership I had some
breakdown, I did change some equipments as every year, progresses are made
in terms of efficiency, electronic improves as well as many new equipments
are launched. With regards to my Dessalator, it has done his job extremely
well although through all these years I have made some improvements or had
to change some parts. To me this is absolutely normal.
Don't expect to own a sailing boat without having to make some repairs,
carry out extensive maintenance and regularly change some equipments. It is
part of sailing.... Owning a boat is not cheap.
Now let's be practical gentlemen. If your watermaker has spoiled your life
and you boat for so many years then buy another one and do what you think
you should do against the manufacturer. It is as simple as that. Accept the
principle that some equipment may fail. This is not a sufficient reason to
state that they are shameful equipments. Even the most sophisticated
equipments can fail. We are hundreds on this forum to make us of the same
boat without having the kind of problems that you are mentioning. Please
spare us the kind of discussion that you are overflowing the forum with as
long as you have an hidden agenda. Share what can be interesting for all of
us in an honest spirit. Don't make use of this forum to serve your own
interests. I believe that this is the spirit of this forum founder. To
finish spare me your answer as I believe it is of no interest to the rest of
the members. I don't want to open an additional sterile polemic.

Wit best regards
Erick MEJEAN


----Original Message Follows----
From: "mcymabm@..." <mcymabm@...>
Reply-To: amelyachtowners@...
To: Forum US <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 04:24:04 +0200 (CEST)

Hi Ian,

I am very glad with your last post on this forum.

As to the letter to send to J.J. Lemonnier, I am about to write it. Did you
send it as registered mail?


I quite agree that this behaviour is breaking the Trades Description Act, or
similar in other countries. Does that mean that you are contemplating suing
Dessalator in a legal action?.

Regards.


Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
SM 311




mcymabm@...







Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail.
Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

dlm48@...
 

In a message dated 25/06/2006 12:11:53 GMT Daylight Time,
j.c.mcdougall@... writes:

am therefore ignorant of the recommended procedures for maintaining the
watermaker and the manual is not helpful in this respect. Could I ask if
someone could supply a brief schedule of recommended procedure for
maintenance as "pickling", TDS meters and other things mentioned are new and
unknown territory for me. My watermaker will not be heavily used.

Thanks in advance,
John McDougall
"54" - no. 21



Dont pickle it and use it as much as possible - if you dont intend to use it
lots you should not have got a watermaker - watermakers love to be used -
dont use them and you will get lots of problems - perhaps before you added this
watermaker to the boat you should have done some research and understood the
operation as well as the plusses and minuses of a watermaker.

regards

David


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

dlm48@...
 

In a message dated 25/06/2006 08:22:01 GMT Daylight Time,
roger.banks@... writes:

I'll speak up in support of Erick Mejean as I have been wondering for
some time how to say politely that the site postings have become way
my largest source of email and pretty boring on the topic of the
water maker. Perhaps the interested parties could continue it off the
site, by direct email amongst yourselves please.

Regards, Roger
Message from Roger Banks
Mobile: 0407 91 4601
Home: +61 2 6291 4601



I thought that this was what the delete key was for - if a subject is of no
interest to you press it - i find this thread very interesting.

regards

David


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

dlm48@...
 

Totally cant agree with the line of this post - not having any axe to grind
her at all being a totally impartial observer - it would appear to me that the
watermaker does not do what it says - or is advertised as doing - that has
nothing to do with routine maintenance - or even routine upgrades of
equipment. To me if both Amel and Dessalator say the watermaker does something - (that
something would appear to be that the watermaker automatically routes good
water to the fresh water storage tank and makes sure that salt water cannot be
routed to the fresh water tank) - and then someone discovers that this
circuit is non functional - because it is not even connected - and this is not a
manufacturing or a quality problem but a deliberate act by Dessalator then
this thread is a very valid thread. I dont see any hidden agenda here at all -
in fact quite the opposite a very open and upfront one - they want this
advertised feature operative - the present situation is deception and a breach
of the trades description act as a minimum.

regards

David.

In a message dated 25/06/2006 07:31:12 GMT Daylight Time, maramu@...
writes:

Dear All
I have been following this forum for many years. I found most of the topics
discussed very interesting as at the end, through the discussions, we got to
know our boat better. (I take this opportunity to thank all the members for
their helpful contributions)
Sometimes ago appeared the Watermaker issue. I initially found the topics
interesting, and then I quickly become a bit uncomfortable with the
different postings made by certain members. It seems that some of them have
some interests in keeping the topic alive again and again by bringing back
the same old issues which have been already discussed long time ago. Then I
got the feeling that there was an obvious hidden agenda and the exchanges
were lacking of honesty. Let’s be serious for a while. How ones can claims
that the failure of the Watermaker has spoiled the washing machine, the dish
washer the pumps and the water heater not to mention other stories which I
read which don’t make any sense. This is purely ridiculous. I don’t even
want to argue on the technical feasibility of such scenarios as they sound
so unrealistic. I’m sorry to say that some of the stories which I read here
have more to do with the sailor than the boat or its equipments.……………….
I have no interest neither with Dessalator nor Amel. I’m just the happy
owner of my SM. Obviously through my 7 years of ownership I had some
breakdown, I did change some equipments as every year, progresses are made
in terms of efficiency, electronic improves as well as many new equipments
are launched. With regards to my Dessalator, it has done his job extremely
well although through all these years I have made some improvements or had
to change some parts. To me this is absolutely normal.
Don’t expect to own a sailing boat without having to make some repairs,
carry out extensive maintenance and regularly change some equipments. It is
part of sailing…….. Owning a boat is not cheap.
Now let’s be practical gentlemen. If your watermaker has spoiled your life
and you boat for so many years then buy another one and do what you think
you should do against the manufacturer. It is as simple as that. Accept the
principle that some equipment may fail. This is not a sufficient reason to
state that they are shameful equipments. Even the most sophisticated
equipments can fail. We are hundreds on this forum to make us of the same
boat without having the kind of problems that you are mentioning. Please
spare us the kind of discussion that you are overflowing the forum with as
long as you have an hidden agenda. Share what can be interesting for all of
us in an honest spirit. Don’t make use of this forum to serve your own
interests. I believe that this is the spirit of this forum founder. To
finish spare me your answer as I believe it is of no interest to the rest of
the members. I don’t want to open an additional sterile polemic.

Wit best regards
Erick MEJEAN


----Original Message Follows----
From: "mcymabm@..." <mcymabm@...>
Reply-To: amelyachtowners@...
To: Forum US <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 04:24:04 +0200 (CEST)

Hi Ian,

I am very glad with your last post on this forum.

As to the letter to send to J.J. Lemonnier, I am about to write it. Did you
send it as registered mail?


I quite agree that this behaviour is breaking the Trades Description Act, or
similar in other countries. Does that mean that you are contemplating suing
Dessalator in a legal action?.

Regards.


Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
SM 311




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
 

I'll speak up in support of Erick Mejean as I have been wondering for
some time how to say politely that the site postings have become way
my largest source of email and pretty boring on the topic of the
water maker. Perhaps the interested parties could continue it off the
site, by direct email amongst yourselves please.

Regards, Roger
Message from Roger Banks
Mobile: 0407 91 4601
Home: +61 2 6291 4601


On 25/06/2006, at 4:31 PM, G D wrote:

Dear All
I have been following this forum for many years. I found most of
the topics
discussed very interesting as at the end, through the discussions,
we got to
know our boat better. (I take this opportunity to thank all the
members for
their helpful contributions)
Sometimes ago appeared the Watermaker issue. I initially found the
topics
interesting, and then I quickly become a bit uncomfortable with the
different postings made by certain members. It seems that some of
them have
some interests in keeping the topic alive again and again by
bringing back
the same old issues which have been already discussed long time
ago. Then I
got the feeling that there was an obvious hidden agenda and the
exchanges
were lacking of honesty. Lets be serious for a while. How ones can
claims
that the failure of the Watermaker has spoiled the washing machine,
the dish
washer the pumps and the water heater not to mention other stories
which I
read which dont make any sense. This is purely ridiculous. I dont
even
want to argue on the technical feasibility of such scenarios as
they sound
so unrealistic. Im sorry to say that some of the stories which I
read here
have more to do with the sailor than the boat or its equipments.

.
I have no interest neither with Dessalator nor Amel. Im just the
happy
owner of my SM. Obviously through my 7 years of ownership I had some
breakdown, I did change some equipments as every year, progresses
are made
in terms of efficiency, electronic improves as well as many new
equipments
are launched. With regards to my Dessalator, it has done his job
extremely
well although through all these years I have made some improvements
or had
to change some parts. To me this is absolutely normal.
Dont expect to own a sailing boat without having to make some
repairs,
carry out extensive maintenance and regularly change some
equipments. It is
part of sailing

.. Owning a boat is not cheap.
Now lets be practical gentlemen. If your watermaker has spoiled
your life
and you boat for so many years then buy another one and do what you
think
you should do against the manufacturer. It is as simple as that.
Accept the
principle that some equipment may fail. This is not a sufficient
reason to
state that they are shameful equipments. Even the most sophisticated
equipments can fail. We are hundreds on this forum to make us of
the same
boat without having the kind of problems that you are mentioning.
Please
spare us the kind of discussion that you are overflowing the forum
with as
long as you have an hidden agenda. Share what can be interesting
for all of
us in an honest spirit. Dont make use of this forum to serve your own
interests. I believe that this is the spirit of this forum founder. To
finish spare me your answer as I believe it is of no interest to
the rest of
the members. I dont want to open an additional sterile polemic.

Wit best regards
Erick MEJEAN


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker

G D <maramu@...>
 

Dear All
I have been following this forum for many years. I found most of the topics discussed very interesting as at the end, through the discussions, we got to know our boat better. (I take this opportunity to thank all the members for their helpful contributions)
Sometimes ago appeared the Watermaker issue. I initially found the topics interesting, and then I quickly become a bit uncomfortable with the different postings made by certain members. It seems that some of them have some interests in keeping the topic alive again and again by bringing back the same old issues which have been already discussed long time ago. Then I got the feeling that there was an obvious hidden agenda and the exchanges were lacking of honesty. Lets be serious for a while. How ones can claims that the failure of the Watermaker has spoiled the washing machine, the dish washer the pumps and the water heater not to mention other stories which I read which dont make any sense. This is purely ridiculous. I dont even want to argue on the technical feasibility of such scenarios as they sound so unrealistic. Im sorry to say that some of the stories which I read here have more to do with the sailor than the boat or its equipments..
I have no interest neither with Dessalator nor Amel. Im just the happy owner of my SM. Obviously through my 7 years of ownership I had some breakdown, I did change some equipments as every year, progresses are made in terms of efficiency, electronic improves as well as many new equipments are launched. With regards to my Dessalator, it has done his job extremely well although through all these years I have made some improvements or had to change some parts. To me this is absolutely normal.
Dont expect to own a sailing boat without having to make some repairs, carry out extensive maintenance and regularly change some equipments. It is part of sailing.. Owning a boat is not cheap.
Now lets be practical gentlemen. If your watermaker has spoiled your life and you boat for so many years then buy another one and do what you think you should do against the manufacturer. It is as simple as that. Accept the principle that some equipment may fail. This is not a sufficient reason to state that they are shameful equipments. Even the most sophisticated equipments can fail. We are hundreds on this forum to make us of the same boat without having the kind of problems that you are mentioning. Please spare us the kind of discussion that you are overflowing the forum with as long as you have an hidden agenda. Share what can be interesting for all of us in an honest spirit. Dont make use of this forum to serve your own interests. I believe that this is the spirit of this forum founder. To finish spare me your answer as I believe it is of no interest to the rest of the members. I dont want to open an additional sterile polemic.

Wit best regards
Erick MEJEAN


----Original Message Follows----
From: "mcymabm@..." <mcymabm@...>
Reply-To: amelyachtowners@...
To: Forum US <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] watermaker
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 04:24:04 +0200 (CEST)

Hi Ian,

I am very glad with your last post on this forum.

As to the letter to send to J.J. Lemonnier, I am about to write it. Did you send it as registered mail?


I quite agree that this behaviour is breaking the Trades Description Act, or similar in other countries. Does that mean that you are contemplating suing Dessalator in a legal action?.

Regards.


Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
SM 311




mcymabm@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker

eric freedman
 

Gary,

Thanks for the reference-

Oddly enough, I had purchased an r/o unit for my house from them on eBay a
year ago.

Much easier than lugging bottled water.

Works great.



Just in case, I purchased the calibration liquid from Omega.

However, I believe that the membranes are a goner. VERY DISSAPOINING!!

If they are dead-This weekend the membranes come out.



I had planned to head into the Pacific from St Martin last month but headed
home to New York for some additional work before heading off.

What a disaster that would have been -imagine trying to get the unit fixed
in the Galapagos.



Thanks for all your help.

Fair Winds,

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite







_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker



Eric:

See message # 2290, The vendor for the membranes is
in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA

Gary--- In amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@...>
wrote:


Hi Gary,

Thanks for the clarification.

I could not find the post that stated where you purchased your new
membranes.

Could you give me the name and contact info?

Thanks

Eric


Re: watermaker

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Eric:

See message # 2290, The vendor for the membranes is
in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA

Gary--- In amelyachtowners@..., eric <kimberlite@...>
wrote:


Hi Gary,

Thanks for the clarification.

I could not find the post that stated where you purchased your new
membranes.

Could you give me the name and contact info?

Thanks

Eric


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker

eric freedman
 

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the clarification.

I could not find the post that stated where you purchased your new
membranes.

Could you give me the name and contact info?

Thanks

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:52 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker



Eric:

The first posting was of my actual measurements of the old O-rings as
removed. I measured these with a digital micrometer. I then took the
used O-rings to HydraPak and asked them for matching the O-rings.
The closest O-rings they could come up with where those I posted in
message 2291. The HydraPak O-rings fit well and appeared to be
correct for my membrane end caps and associated parts.

The FilmTec technical bulletin literature on the Dow Corning FilmTec web
site states that small amounts of silicone lubricant on the O-rings is ok.
I highly recommend their web sit. It has lots of info on membranes,
servicing, care of, and production specs. etc.

Regards, Gary

eric <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Gary

You made 2 postings of the "o" ring measurements which measurements are
correct?

Is there a problem with using silicone on the "o" rings in the same area as
the membranes?


Re: watermaker

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

23 June 2006

Dear Yves:

Thank you for more details on your system and on the type of near fire
that you suffered. Your description has led me to do some additional
research on my watermaker.

Does your water maker have an electrical control box similar to the
one depicted in the photo section of this web site under Watermaker Service?
You access the box from the port cockpit lazarette. See the photos on this
web site. I would quess that it must have a similar box.

This box on my water maker (160 liter per hour 220 volt sytem)
contains two circuit breakers. They are Merlin Gerin multi 9 C60N D5A and
D25A ciruit breakers (see photo) The D before the 25A or 5A indicates
that these are D curve rated circuit breakers that are motor circuit breakers.

The circuit breaker (20 amp) on the 220 volt panel in the galley is not a
motor rated circuit breaker but does supply feed power to this control
box (see photo).

The 220 volt power to the motors (both low pressure "BP" feed pump
and high pressure "HP" pump), are controlled by stacked relays on the
control circuit board and in the control box and the pumps
are protected by the above circuit breakers.

Everything you have said about protecting the pumps is correct. They
must be protected by motor circuit breakers or dual type fuses. I was
initially confused by the 5 and 25 amp breakers in the electrical box.
However,on my system, and based on reading the complete data sheets
for the manufacturer of these circuit breakers they meet all US and EU
electrical codes for both overcurrent and overload motor protection.

The US codes require the fuse or motor circuit breaker be rated at
125% of the motors data plate current rating. These CBs are D curve
breakers which means that they are appropriate for external motor
protection per the following US electrical Code UL 489, and EU Code
IEC60947-2.

I will have to check the data plates on my motors to verify their rated
current draw to be absolutely sure the breakers are appropriately
sized but my first impression is that Dessalator did provide proper
motor circuit breaker protection for the motors. The specifications
for these circuit breakers say that they are marinized and rated
for at least 10,000 operations, so they are well made. They are
also expensive (about $117 USD each).

Additional protection for the motor could indeed be provided (and
redundant) by appropriate slow blow dual type fuses located at
the motor but neither of the the above noted codes require that.

I am sorry to hear about your electrical failure. I believe your
experience should serve as a warning to us all that we should
shut the system down immediately if either pump does not start
in sequence in their usual fashion.

I am not sure yet which circuit breaker from the 24 volt panel
protects the 24 VDC feed to the Dessalator water maker. Some
day I will complete my schematics, parts list, and parts diagram
for our water maker and post those on the files section.

Kindest regards,

Gary Silver


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Eric:

The first posting was of my actual measurements of the old O-rings as
removed. I measured these with a digital micrometer. I then took the
used O-rings to HydraPak and asked them for matching the O-rings.
The closest O-rings they could come up with where those I posted in
message 2291. The HydraPak O-rings fit well and appeared to be
correct for my membrane end caps and associated parts.

The FilmTec technical bulletin literature on the Dow Corning FilmTec web
site states that small amounts of silicone lubricant on the O-rings is ok.
I highly recommend their web sit. It has lots of info on membranes,
servicing, care of, and production specs. etc.

Regards, Gary



eric <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Gary

You made 2 postings of the "o" ring measurements which measurements are
correct?

Is there a problem with using silicone on the "o" rings in the same area as
the membranes?


Remove from Group

Mike Mattinson <hallelujah_mk@...>
 

Hi,

Please remove our e-mail: hallelujah_mk@... from your group e-mail list.

Thank you

Kim

From: "mcymabm@..." <mcymabm@...>
Reply-To: amelyachtowners@...
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:12:19 +0200 (CEST)

amelyachtowners@...

Problem with ONAN generator



Dear Patrick (Caramel),

I read on this forum that you had troubles with starting the ONAN group. I hope you solved the problem.

Me too, I have trouble, non at starting, but sometimes it stops at random while running, without the fault circuit breakers (engine or generator) having tripped. No need of any reset; without delay, it starts again as soon as I push the start button again and can run with the same charge for several hours. Fortunately, it does not happen too often, but since it is at random, it is worrying. I only noticed that it happened twice while using bowthruster, but I cannot see any relation between 12 V shut off and 24 V. motor.

Somebody posted to your intention on this forum, as a useful clarification, that he had a similar problem, and thought it was probably coming from the fuel shut off solenoid circuit. In my case, I quite agree with this suggestion, knowing that the solenoid is alive (activated) all the time during operation, if for any reason the electric feeding is cut somewhere, the engine stops…..but where is it interrupted?? I checked my connections but could not find any loose one. It could be the start/stop buttons, a voltage drop in the D.C. circuit….I am very puzzled!!

Unfortunately, I lost the name of the one who made this suggestion, but fortunately I kept his message. I indeed opened the top plate of the black control box, but I was not able to find the resistor he is talking about. Could he please help me a bit further?? I suppose the resistor he is talking of is the 10 W / 10 W. (part N° 353-0053) mentioned in page 71/ Ref. N°2 of the blue parts catalog as being included in D.C. harness. …But I really cannot find it physically in the control box.

Any help or suggestion will be very welcome.

Amitiés à tous sur Caramel …dès que nous atteignons un endroit civilisé, nous prenons votre journal.

Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
S.M. 311 / 2001








mcymabm@...



watermaker

mcymabm@voila.fr <mcymabm@...>
 

Hi Ian and judy

I enjoyed reading your message on drinking water produced on board.
I have my “ judy ” on board, her name is Marie-Christine, but I never had the idea of making a blind tasting.
Fortunately we have some opportunities to have fun about this shameful Watermaker.

All the best

Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
BLUE MARINE
SM 311



mcymabm@...


watermaker

mcymabm@voila.fr <mcymabm@...>
 

Hi Ian,

I am very glad with your last post on this forum.

As to the letter to send to J.J. Lemonnier, I am about to write it. Did you send it as registered mail?

I quite agree that this behaviour is breaking the Trades Description Act, or similar in other countries. Does that mean that you are contemplating suing Dessalator in a legal action?.

Regards.


Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
SM 311




mcymabm@...


watermaker

mcymabm@voila.fr <mcymabm@...>
 

Dear Gary

Sorry for answering late, but I am not so often near an internet

I confirm that I nearly had fire in my boat due to Dessalator 220 V. motor by end 2005.

My equipment is a Duo 220 V. / 24 V given for 60 L./h.
Equipment and electrical cabling are strictly original.(20A. 2 poles Diruptor, low breaking capacity C.B. )

The Facts: how it happened

One day, I started the water maker on 220 V. as usual, from the galley with gen set running.
I was waiting for the “good quality” green light to switch on, which, of course happened after 2/3 min.
When I turned the pressure up, it was not rising. I then understood that the 220 V. motor had not started and switched the CB on the panel board in the galley off.
This circuit breaker had not tripped ( see further why). I thought I would have a look at it later.

Then, I could smell a strong odour invading the boat. When I opened the engine compartment, I understood the odour was coming from there.

The Diagnosis : why it happened

Examining the motor, I discovered that the capacitor on the motor was damaged, leaking, probably having been mounted too close to the motor. Which I had not noticed before.

Since, without the capacity functioning, the motor didn’t start when I turned the water maker on.
But the Circuit breaker remained in ON position (didn’t trip), nevertheless the short circuit, and nothing told me that the motor had not started. A blocked rotor motor is exactly the same as a short circuit.
The motor was completely burned and I had to have it rewired at my next port of call (Panama). Should have it lasted longer,… you can imagine the possible disaster.

The electrical facts are as follow:
· in order to allow the motor to start and pass the starting peak of current, the breaker is calibrated much higher than the nominal current of the , motor ( 20 A for 5.4 A. nominal current of the motor).

· This setting makes that, in case of blocked rotor, the current, which is the same than the starting one (~16A. for this type of motor), is not high enough to trip the breaker….leaving the motor burn.

· A circuit breaker is designed to protect lines, and not appliances, with exception (see further).

· There is no fuse on the motor to back up the CB.

The professional installation could be in two ways (twofold):

· Use a “motor CB”. This is a special type of CB with special tripping curve to let the peak pass, although being calibrated for the motor nominal amp.
· Use CB + Fuse (a slow blow one) . This is called “line starter” in the US. The CB protects the line (which is the normal aim of a CB) and the fuse protects the motor, but being slow, let the peak pass as long as it last only a very short time (normal starting delay).
· Never protect a motor with a standard CB. A slow blow fuse should have been set on the Dessalator motor.

I made my utmost to be clear, but if not, don’t hesitate to come back.

As to the Watermaker, the responsibility problem is not easy ( see my recent post on this forum):
· I have in hand a letter from Dessalator stating that it was together with Amel that they had decided to do so; Wagner sent a copy of this letter, and others, to J.Y. Selo, at that time after sales director.
· On the other hand, I know other boats, non Amel, having the same problem.
· I am glad that, after having been very doubtful, Ian is now becoming very active on this big issue.


Take care,

Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
Blue Marine
SM 311




mcymabm@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker

eric freedman
 

Gary,

You made 2 postings of the "o" ring measurements which measurements are
correct?



Is there a problem with using silicone on the "o" rings in the same area as
the membranes?



Thanks

Fair Winds,

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:18 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: watermaker



21 Jun 2006

Eric:

I purchased my 0-rings from a local vendor here in Salt Lake City, Utah,
USA,
called Hydra Pak 1-801-973-7325 .
Any local supplier of O-rings should have these O-rings since they are
common
type. If all else fails let me know and I will get you some, but shipping
might
cost more than the O-rings.

Gary

Eric Wrote:

" Where did you get the "o" rings" ?"

Fair Winds,

Eric


Amel 54 Sail Plan

anniemno1 <no_reply@...>
 

Could anyone advise as to the number and size, (expressed as a percent
of J), of the jibs on the 54?

Best Regards,

Anne and John
Annie M