Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman
 

Mark,
Where will you be off to?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of markmpitt
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Hi Gary:

I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes. I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have. I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use? Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before we
leave on year long voyage. May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output. My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

Thanks.

Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III" ASM 2000 hull #419


--- In amelyachtowners@..., amelliahona <no_reply@y...> wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI








Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Water Maker Info

Mark Pitt
 

Hi Gary:

I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes. I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have. I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use? Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before we
leave on year long voyage. May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output. My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

Thanks.

Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III" ASM 2000 hull #419

--- In amelyachtowners@..., amelliahona <no_reply@y...> wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI


Watermaker winterizing, etc.

rbenven44 <no_reply@...>
 

We have over 400 hours on our watermaker (40 l/hr, 24 V version)
during 8 years of use. We have pickled it with sodium metabisulphite
(?) every time we leave the boat for more than a week, or at least
twice a year. No problems yet!
Twice we have winterized it. The first time we didn't drain the
sight glass flowmeter on the control panel, and it broke (replacement
cost for a 2-inch long glass tube was $250 from Dessalator!!). The
second time I drained all the good water lines coming out of the
membranes and disassembled and drained the control panel. Time
consuming, but worth it!
We winterized with glycerine, mixed in with the pickling solution,
as recommended by Dessalator. However, I have asked several US-based
watermaker companies about winterizing, and they all recommend non-
toxic (pink) antifreeze. They say it takes the place of pickling and
glycerine. Now I plan to use that every time I leave the boat. One
company said that their new units come filled with pink anti-freeze
from the factory to protect them in shipping.
Finally, on the question of the salinity sensor, I believe that it
does not work properly. When we turn on our unit, the light turns
green after 2 minutes. However, when I taste the water from the tap
on the control panel at the 2-minute mark, it is still very salty.
It only gets drinkable at the 4-minute mark. I have never had the
sensor shut the unit down. So I believe in checking the taste of the
water periodically during production, rather than relying on the
sensor.
Regards to all,

Roy on Excalibur SM #195


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman
 

Gary,
How do you plan to add a second water sensor? Will you hook this into some
kind of alarm? I was in sea cow bay last year and found the entrance too
shallow for me. Have they dredged the channel?
Please say hi to Jim woods for me.
Thanks
Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI








Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman
 

Gary,
Where did you get a TDS meter?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI








Yahoo! Groups Links


Watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Steve,
Careless of me. the full address is rod.boreham@...

Regards John SM 319


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

dlm48@...
 

In a message dated 10/12/2005 04:40:31 GMT Standard Time,
no_reply@... writes:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI






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i have worked on repaired five watermakers now and ALL the problems stemmed
from picking them :-(

i think the FWF is a good thing. I posted to someone on this list that
while living aboard in the Caribbean using a Spectra WM we did double
desalination with a few divert valves - input from the water tank not the sea - the
waste going back to the water tanks when doing DD - and another one to collect
the DD water in jugs - the PPM reading was non existent and the water was so
sweet.

Their reply was that this could de bad for the membranes i don't see this
myself (waiting for the experts to pipe in here) as most watermakers recommend a
FWF at the end of the cycle - but then i am no expert here only have some
experience getting them back working.

from my limited experience the worst thing you can do to a water maker after
pickling it (which i would not recommend) is not to use it daily or every
two or three days or weekly as a minimum.

how you achieve a weekly FWF when you are off the boat is difficult but not
impossible with some lateral thinking and a few changes to the plumbing.

regards

David


Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker. It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water. This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers. Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank. I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap. This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line. I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks. Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days. Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty. I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm. I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm. The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting. They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane. This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water. Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot. We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping. You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity. They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens. 1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm. I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1. PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc. If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite. I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system. It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle upon system shut down. It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2. CHLORINE: I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine. After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3. BRACKISH WATER: I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker. I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4. CARFUL MONITORING: I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5. PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY. I plan to use a spare Dessalator conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6. CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts. By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards, Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Liahona lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Thanks John.

Does Rod's email address end in .com or something else?

Steve

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...> wrote:
Hi Steve,
I was advised to use glycerine by a US Watermaker company but that was
about six years ago. You could ask Rod Boreham who is the UK Agent for
Dassalter. He seems very switched on and helpful. His Email address is
rod.boreham@advanceyachts Amel could tell you how to purge the kinks.
Luckily we do not have to worry about frost in Malta!

Regards, John SM 319






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Watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Steve,
I was advised to use glycerine by a US Watermaker company but that was
about six years ago. You could ask Rod Boreham who is the UK Agent for
Dassalter. He seems very switched on and helpful. His Email address is
rod.boreham@advanceyachts Amel could tell you how to purge the kinks.
Luckily we do not have to worry about frost in Malta!

Regards, John SM 319


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] SM 2000 fresh water system

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

I too recently purchased an SM2K (#340), and am struggling with winterizing issues. For the hot water heater, I disconnected the inlet and outlet hoses, and temporarily attached a length of hose to the lower one to drain the water into the sump. I then bypassed the heater by joining the cold water inlet hose to the hot water outlet hose. At this point, the entire fresh water system is cold only. I then ran the "pink" antifreeze through the fresh water system by disconnecting the inlet hose from the fresh water pump, and syphoning it directly out of the antifreeze bottle. Don't forget the cockpit shower. The hot water tank just required a small amount to displace what little water didn't get drained.

Incidently, for those of you horrified that we're using antifreeze in our fresh water pipes, propolene glycol (pink stuff) is widely used as a non-toxic antifreeze in the plumbing systems of boats, motorhomes, travel trailers, etc. as a winterizing agent in North America. It's available at every boating supply facility.

The dishwasher, clothes washer, and watermaker were a lot more challenging. I ended up running the clothes washer through a cold water rinse cycle (so the heating element wouldn't turn on). I couldn't figure out how to keep the heater from turning on in the dishwasher, so I just ran it through a complete cycle. It worked, but at the expense of 4 gallons of antifreeze.

On the watermaker (160 litre/hour model), I'm still stuck. This is the first watermaker I've ever seen, so I'm probably missing something obvious. The saltwater intake is straight forward from the seacock to the 25 micron filter (it can be filled with antifreeze). Then from the 5 micron filter through the non-pressurized section of the membranes and overboard is no different than a regular "pickling" with glycerine. My problem, however, is how does one protect the section from the filtered (fresh water side) of the membranes, through the water quality sensor, through the control panel fresh water gauge, and back to the tank? I'd think it would have fresh water pooled at various points in the circuit, which if left there, will freeze and crack something.

Another boater with a watermaker in the same yard, says his watermaker manufacturer recommends winterizing the system by pickling it with pink propolene glycol instead of glycerine. Has anyone heard of this being done on an AMEL Dessalator system without dire results? Are there any other tricks, techniques, or advice anyone has learned?

Steve Constantine


mike_ondra <mondra@...> wrote:
As the new owners of a 1999 SM 2000 we have enjoyed exploring our
new vessel and the challenges of figuring out the systems.
Winterization generated a number of questions.

We expected to remove the 2 nuts on the wood cover under the sole
board in the galley and be able to access the fresh water tank. We
found simply an indentation in the fiberglas, as if it was intended
to provide an access point, but had not been cut out. What are we
missing? Is/are there access points for cleaning?

The water heater, mounted on an angle with all piping and electrical
connections on the bottom end, seems to lack any high temp/pressure
safety blow-off. Typical? Method of draining and replacement of
anode or failed electric heating element? The magnesium anode is
huge! Does it really need replacement in 3 years?

The manual seems to imply a method to simply drain the fresh water
system back to the keel tank. That certainly would be easy if it
worked. We could not believe that approach would safely drain the
system and so simply added antifreeze to the empty tank and then fed
the entire fresh water system until pink. Again, are we missing out
on an easier way to do this?






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Photos, cockpit seat and table

John and Anne Hollamby <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Eric,
Sorry to have been so long in replying. We do not have an espar or other
heater so I can not help with that.
I have just posted pics of a hatch in the aft cabin top in the SM 319 album
which now has some 26 pics of changes I have made.
One of the best was scrapping the helmsmans chair and putting in a seat
which is on a swivelling but lockable base which also
has gas filled struts to move the seat up and down and in and out. The
actual pedestal can be accessed from New Zealand. I have never seen
any other one with these qualities. This did away with the Amel table but I
got a Swedish mount available by mail order which comes in four parts.
there is a mounting plate which is fixed to the side of the locker astride
the reinforcing web. Then there is a vertical section which slides onto the
plate
and a horizontal section which fits onto the vertical section and another
plate which I screwed onto one part of the Amel table, removing the second
section
andthe hinge. This second part is used when we are more than four for
dinner etc. The table swivels and is lockable in any horizontal position
and of course the height is also variable. I also fitted three teak grab
handles on the underside of the fixed hardtop.
Since then I find that at least 90% of the time the seat is not facing
forward but turned inwards to join in with people in the cockpit. An
additional bonus is that the chair can be lifted off easily to make it
possible to access the big cockpit locker, (which is where the table top
lives most of the time). It is also smaller, comfortable
and, I think, more attractive than the original.

Have a good Christmas, John SM 319


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul

eric freedman
 

After much searching I sent a piece of outhaul line to new England ropes. .
They suggested endura braid as a substitute. It works great on my boat. A
trick is to tighten the car using a line from the clew of the main to one of
the mast winches. This will tension the outhaul so there will be little if
any need to further adjust the line. The endura is 3/8 inch.
Fair winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of edmund_steele
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 11:02 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul

I have replaced the outhaul several times over the past two years
cruising, as I experimented with different brands and thicknesses of
Kevlar line. I have discovered that 1) I can't splice worth a damn. I
have replaced Amel's pretty spliced outhaul ends with bowlines. 2) All
of brands of line that I tried - some worse than others, had a waxy
finish on the outside of the line. This is not particularly useful on a
friction drive but it did oxidise off after a couple of weeks exposure
to the elements. 3) To tighten the line, tap the outhaul power control
in the "in" direction without touching the furler control. If there is
slack in the outhaul, you can now remove it by tightening the lashing.
I found it was necessary to do this daily for a few days and then
possibly repeat after a week.







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Re: Outhaul

edmund_steele
 

I have replaced the outhaul several times over the past two years
cruising, as I experimented with different brands and thicknesses of
Kevlar line. I have discovered that 1) I can't splice worth a damn. I
have replaced Amel's pretty spliced outhaul ends with bowlines. 2) All
of brands of line that I tried – some worse than others, had a waxy
finish on the outside of the line. This is not particularly useful on a
friction drive but it did oxidise off after a couple of weeks exposure
to the elements. 3) To tighten the line, tap the outhaul power control
in the "in" direction without touching the furler control. If there is
slack in the outhaul, you can now remove it by tightening the lashing.
I found it was necessary to do this daily for a few days and then
possibly repeat after a week.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Basic info

Eric Lindholm
 

Thanks for the info Mike. With what you supplied and others I now have the info I need. Great group. Happy holidays Eric

Mike Gough <mahili_au@...> wrote: G'day Eric,
I can answer some of your questions: If you would like more details let me know
Mike Gough goughs_au@... (my browser underlines the whole address-there is an underscore_ between goughs and au)

----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 4:21:16 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Basic info

Hello all. I am the new owner of a 1982 maramu, hull number 150 I think. I did not get any factory manuals, or any information with or about the boat when I got it. I have gone through the vessel from bow to stern to try to learn all of its secrets, but I have a few(for now) basic questions.

Is there a factory manual, and if so how to get one. If I can't get it from the factory, I would reimburse any other owner the cost to copy theirs and ship it to me.I can provide you with an electronic copy of the manual I have (Maramu # 147) but it does not provide much detail. I am told the Amel service department is quite good, their email address is amel@... ,

The function of two of the 12 volt breakers, #5 and #8 counting down from the top of the panel. #5 has some type of figure with a green light next to it.This probably activates the clutch to drive the factory refrigeration. #8 is simply blank,This may supply power to the wind instruments and depth sounder. and I thought it might just be an extra, but it is wired to something. I turned them both on and off, but could not make anything light up, pump, or make any other noise.

Transmission type. The heat exchanger of sorts is rotted out and needs replacement. From the design it would appear that this is a common problem.I need to either buy a few, or have them fabricated out of something more durable, ie copper or brass. I have no idea of who supplies the transmission. The engine is a perkins 4-154.I have the same engine and probably same gearbox.(Hurth) The heat exchanger (bolts on to the side of the gearbox) was alloy and went the same way as yours. I had one built of stainless steel and put it back in the same place. Because the g.box housing is alloy I used plenty of Duralac between the two.

The rig tuning specifications, if they are available.Sorry can't help here. A good rigger may be the answer or help from Amel.

My boat does not have a generator, and I was considering installing a small one. Has anyone done this, if so recomended type and area of installation. I am thinking of something in the 4kw range installed in the engine room compartment if possible.I installed a 2kva genset but unconventional and probably not for everyone. I built in a Honda eu20 (petrol, air cooled!) It works well and is very quiet, providing enough for a small airconditioner, hot water but not enough for both at once. It is easily removable for servicing, situated against the port side of the boat in the cockpit locker. It took a lot of messing around to arrange exhausting, ventillation and safety for petrol on board but comes at around 20% the price of a diesel genset.

Thank you all. After crawling all through this boat, I can't tell you how impressed I am with its design and construction. Sales pamphlets are one way to get info, but getting down on your hands and knees really makes you appreciate things.

Eric Lindholm, "MARAMU"








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---------------------------------


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Basic info

Mike Gough <mahili_au@...>
 

G'day Eric,
I can answer some of your questions: If you would like more details let me know
Mike Gough goughs_au@... (my browser underlines the whole address-there is an underscore_ between goughs and au)

----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2005 4:21:16 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Basic info

Hello all. I am the new owner of a 1982 maramu, hull number 150 I think. I did not get any factory manuals, or any information with or about the boat when I got it. I have gone through the vessel from bow to stern to try to learn all of its secrets, but I have a few(for now) basic questions.

Is there a factory manual, and if so how to get one. If I can't get it from the factory, I would reimburse any other owner the cost to copy theirs and ship it to me.I can provide you with an electronic copy of the manual I have (Maramu # 147) but it does not provide much detail. I am told the Amel service department is quite good, their email address is amel@... ,

The function of two of the 12 volt breakers, #5 and #8 counting down from the top of the panel. #5 has some type of figure with a green light next to it.This probably activates the clutch to drive the factory refrigeration. #8 is simply blank,This may supply power to the wind instruments and depth sounder. and I thought it might just be an extra, but it is wired to something. I turned them both on and off, but could not make anything light up, pump, or make any other noise.

Transmission type. The heat exchanger of sorts is rotted out and needs replacement. From the design it would appear that this is a common problem.I need to either buy a few, or have them fabricated out of something more durable, ie copper or brass. I have no idea of who supplies the transmission. The engine is a perkins 4-154.I have the same engine and probably same gearbox.(Hurth) The heat exchanger (bolts on to the side of the gearbox) was alloy and went the same way as yours. I had one built of stainless steel and put it back in the same place. Because the g.box housing is alloy I used plenty of Duralac between the two.

The rig tuning specifications, if they are available.Sorry can't help here. A good rigger may be the answer or help from Amel.

My boat does not have a generator, and I was considering installing a small one. Has anyone done this, if so recomended type and area of installation. I am thinking of something in the 4kw range installed in the engine room compartment if possible.I installed a 2kva genset but unconventional and probably not for everyone. I built in a Honda eu20 (petrol, air cooled!) It works well and is very quiet, providing enough for a small airconditioner, hot water but not enough for both at once. It is easily removable for servicing, situated against the port side of the boat in the cockpit locker. It took a lot of messing around to arrange exhausting, ventillation and safety for petrol on board but comes at around 20% the price of a diesel genset.

Thank you all. After crawling all through this boat, I can't tell you how impressed I am with its design and construction. Sales pamphlets are one way to get info, but getting down on your hands and knees really makes you appreciate things.

Eric Lindholm, "MARAMU"








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New aft cabin hatch

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hello All,
We found the ventilation in the aft cabin very poor even with the aft
hatch wide open.So we bought a Vetus hatch and had it installed by a
freelance shipwright here in Malta.
He made up a teak mounting to go on the deck to provide a flat mount.
He sealed the balsa between the two layers of GRP with resin and then
cut a strip of white plastic and fixed that to the resin with contact
glue and made up mahogany frame to cover the underside in the cabin.
He had prefinished the mahogany with four coats of varnish.
The total cost was about £500stlg.
The opening is on the port side for two reasons. It is directly behind
the opening part of the windscreen and as we altered the aft cabin to
make a doublebunk across the boat with the pillow end on the starboard
side we did not want the draught or rain to disturb us.
The result is a huge improvement and we rarely open the aft hatch any
more.
We have added two pics at the end of the album SM319 in the photos
section of this site. (Nos 25 and 26).

Best wishes, Anne and John SM 319


FAN BELTS

pjppappas <pjppappas@...>
 

I am in the process of purchasing a 2002 SM. The engine is the 100hp
Yanmar and the generator is an Onan. I wish to change the fan belts
on both. Does anyone know the Gates number for the fan belts on the
engine and generator. Thank you. Peter Pappas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu 2000 for sale in French Med.

PFM53 <pfm53@...>
 

I saw this mail and thought I would let you know (David) that I have a 1995
Super Maramu (PFM)for sale. Currently lying in Trinidad, in excellent
condition. You can get details (including a survey) at www.ecoconutinc.com.

Jerry

------ Original Message ------
Received: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:27:54 PM PST
From: "dmpaul60" <dmpaul60@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu 2000 for sale in French Med.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John McDougall"
<j.c.mcdougall@b...> wrote:

I have an Amel 54 on order and my SM2000, "Silver Cloud" no 330,
launched May 2001 with Yanmar engine specification, is for sale.
This
is a very lightly used French Med boat in excellent condition. For
sale direct at a very attractive price with free berthing in Antibes
till Apr 2006 if required. Please email if interested.
John McDougall
Hello John,

We have been looking for a good used Amel for a good while. We would
like to have a new boat to us by February 06. Would you send us the
particulars on yours with as much info as possible.

Thanks David




Re: Super Maramu 2000 for sale in French Med.

John McDougall <j.c.mcdougall@...>
 

David,
Sorry but the boat is now sold.
John.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "dmpaul60" <dmpaul60@y...>
wrote:

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John McDougall"
<j.c.mcdougall@b...> wrote:

I have an Amel 54 on order and my SM2000, "Silver Cloud" no 330,
launched May 2001 with Yanmar engine specification, is for
sale.
This
is a very lightly used French Med boat in excellent condition.
For
sale direct at a very attractive price with free berthing in
Antibes
till Apr 2006 if required. Please email if interested.
John McDougall
Hello John,

We have been looking for a good used Amel for a good while. We
would
like to have a new boat to us by February 06. Would you send us
the
particulars on yours with as much info as possible.

Thanks David
David,