Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner

Roy A. Duddy, Esq. <rduddy.duddylawoffices@...>
 

Joe,

I want to thank you for the thought and attention that you put into your
posting. I appreciate it very much. Fortunately, I haven't had to attack
that problem yet. But I will keep your post as a reference.

Roy Duddy
Sharki #123
Unwineding
Kittery Point, Maine

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel F. Potter [mailto:jfpottercys@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner


Fellow Amel yacht owners,



In response to Mr. Parry's request, I submit the following:



Having sold hundreds of second hand Amel's over the past 25 years, I have
had to face the restoration of the fallen vinyl in Amel boats many times.
In preparing them for the market, I have personally participated in the
restoration process on many boats, and supervised the entire job more
times
that I can recall. We have made all the mistakes so the following is solid
and reliable, learned in the school of hard experience.



All Amel's, every one, built prior to 1993 model has vinyl that will
eventually fall down. Why? The vinyl had a polyurethane foam backing
that
gave a cushioning effect and also "held the glue" better than a smooth
backing. Over the years, the foam gets thermally cycled each day as the
sun
goes up and down, becomes brittle and dry, and then turns to polyurethane
dust. It happens first in areas of highest heat transfer and is
exacerbated
by washing/cleaning the vinyl as this compresses the foam. Boats built
after 1993 use an organic cotton (felt) backing and, so far, these boats
have had no vinyl failures and probably will not for the foreseeable
future.



To repair the fallen vinyl is pretty simple, yet time consuming and a
genuine threat to your health. Really. Additionally, if you attempt to
do
this with your spouse, be forewarned, if you can't hang wall paper
together
without undo friction, your relationship will be seriously tested by the
stress of restoring the vinyl correctly.



First, put your cutting tools away. Far away. Get out a screw driver
instead. Unscrew all molding and trim pieces of wood wherever you find it
on the vinyl or around the edges of the vinyl. You will then better
understand the processes to follow next.



The most important thing at this moment is to buy whoever will be involved
in the process from this point forward a very good mask respirator that
filters the smallest of particulate matter. Vapor or solvent removal is
not
important. Particulate matter is. Why? Because when you take the
presently installed vinyl down prior to re-hanging it all the foam backing
that has disintegrated will fill the air and, eventually, find its way
into
every single nook and cranny inside the boat. These particles seem to
have
a negative charge and attach themselves tenaciously to all they touch. It
is advisable to completely remove everything from all storage areas in
each
compartment as you proceed with the repair. It is absolutely essential
that
you wear your respirator and not breathe ANY of this disintegrated foam.
You will get very, very ill if you do with severe respiratory distress.
The
long term effects of inhaling polyurethane by-products are truly grim.
Please, obtain the best respirators you can find and wear them
conscientiously. Those 3-m throw away nose/mouth shields will NOT do the
job. Ask me how I know this.



With all the trim removed, you will discover how you can easily remove the
vinyl from the surfaces upon which it is mounted. Gently pull the vinyl
away from the surface. Before you cut anything, think twice. Very little
cutting is required and it varies from model to model. Just really think
twice and cut once.



After the vinyl is down, or hanging from its edges, take a stiff brush and
remove all remnants of the foam backing from the vinyl and the surface it
was on. The keyword here is "all". You will never actually get it all,
but
get as much as you can. Don't pull the vinyl out of the areas where it is
permanently secured behind woodwork such as the wood mounted on the cabin
vertical areas where the ports are.



Now the hard part. You can reattach the originally installed vinyl and it
will look about 90% as good as it did when the boat was new. The success
of
your work will depend on your planning, your skills, and your choice of
material.



DO NOT USE "MAGIC" GLUE or CONTACT CEMENT. Instead, use vinyl wallpaper
cement that is approved for use in high humidity environments (bath
rooms/showers). You will find this at any good household wallpaper and/or
paint store. I have found that the only ones that work well also require
a
primmer/sealer to be installed before the glue/paste. These adhesives,
unlike contact cement or magic glues, will have a reasonable "open" period
before they bond. This allows you to work out the wrinkles and get good
adhesion in the corners. Contact cement sets on contact. It also has
solvents which will discolor and sometimes melt and destroy the vinyl.
Try
all adhesive products on a discreet area to test them before you do an
actual repair.



If you work carefully and thoughtfully, you will be happy with your
results.
Remember to use plenty of primer, you almost can not use too much. It's
best to start inside the forward hanging locker first to get the hang (get
it?) of the process. If you don't do a perfect job in the hanging locker,
learn from your mistakes before proceeding to more visible repairs. Don't
forget your respirator or I'll get your boat for sale sooner than you
wish.
Be careful.



There are many ways to skin a cat, this is just one. You can also use
wooden battens on a fore to aft bias which is easier but, generally not as
attractive.



You can also remove the vinyl and replace it, or put in removable ceiling
panels. However, unless your handy skills approach that of a true
craftsman, these repairs are best left to the pros.



Work slowly at first, consider carefully your every move, use the best
materials you can find, and wear your respirator. You'll be pleased with
the results.



Good luck.



Joel F. Potter, SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"















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headliner instructions

bobparry1947 <bob@...>
 

Dear Joel,

Many thanks for taking the time to give us such comprehensive
directions for repairung the headliner. Sounds like an onerous task.
We don't recall seeing any paint 'n' paper shops in Tunisia but I dare
say they are around somewhere. We have already spent hours tramping
the streets of the commercial part of Tunis looking for 24 v halogen
bulbs for our tricolour and anchor light and a new circuit breaker
(success for the first item but not the second),among other things.
Also, it is interesting making ourselves understood as our Arabic is
non-existent and the French we learnt at school over 40 years ago
leaves us somewhat short but people are really helpful.

Many thanks once again,
Bob and Ann Parry
SM#33 Nowornot


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner

amelforme
 

Fellow Amel yacht owners,



In response to Mr. Parry's request, I submit the following:



Having sold hundreds of second hand Amel's over the past 25 years, I have
had to face the restoration of the fallen vinyl in Amel boats many times.
In preparing them for the market, I have personally participated in the
restoration process on many boats, and supervised the entire job more times
that I can recall. We have made all the mistakes so the following is solid
and reliable, learned in the school of hard experience.



All Amel's, every one, built prior to 1993 model has vinyl that will
eventually fall down. Why? The vinyl had a polyurethane foam backing that
gave a cushioning effect and also "held the glue" better than a smooth
backing. Over the years, the foam gets thermally cycled each day as the sun
goes up and down, becomes brittle and dry, and then turns to polyurethane
dust. It happens first in areas of highest heat transfer and is exacerbated
by washing/cleaning the vinyl as this compresses the foam. Boats built
after 1993 use an organic cotton (felt) backing and, so far, these boats
have had no vinyl failures and probably will not for the foreseeable future.



To repair the fallen vinyl is pretty simple, yet time consuming and a
genuine threat to your health. Really. Additionally, if you attempt to do
this with your spouse, be forewarned, if you can't hang wall paper together
without undo friction, your relationship will be seriously tested by the
stress of restoring the vinyl correctly.



First, put your cutting tools away. Far away. Get out a screw driver
instead. Unscrew all molding and trim pieces of wood wherever you find it
on the vinyl or around the edges of the vinyl. You will then better
understand the processes to follow next.



The most important thing at this moment is to buy whoever will be involved
in the process from this point forward a very good mask respirator that
filters the smallest of particulate matter. Vapor or solvent removal is not
important. Particulate matter is. Why? Because when you take the
presently installed vinyl down prior to re-hanging it all the foam backing
that has disintegrated will fill the air and, eventually, find its way into
every single nook and cranny inside the boat. These particles seem to have
a negative charge and attach themselves tenaciously to all they touch. It
is advisable to completely remove everything from all storage areas in each
compartment as you proceed with the repair. It is absolutely essential that
you wear your respirator and not breathe ANY of this disintegrated foam.
You will get very, very ill if you do with severe respiratory distress. The
long term effects of inhaling polyurethane by-products are truly grim.
Please, obtain the best respirators you can find and wear them
conscientiously. Those 3-m throw away nose/mouth shields will NOT do the
job. Ask me how I know this.



With all the trim removed, you will discover how you can easily remove the
vinyl from the surfaces upon which it is mounted. Gently pull the vinyl
away from the surface. Before you cut anything, think twice. Very little
cutting is required and it varies from model to model. Just really think
twice and cut once.



After the vinyl is down, or hanging from its edges, take a stiff brush and
remove all remnants of the foam backing from the vinyl and the surface it
was on. The keyword here is "all". You will never actually get it all, but
get as much as you can. Don't pull the vinyl out of the areas where it is
permanently secured behind woodwork such as the wood mounted on the cabin
vertical areas where the ports are.



Now the hard part. You can reattach the originally installed vinyl and it
will look about 90% as good as it did when the boat was new. The success of
your work will depend on your planning, your skills, and your choice of
material.



DO NOT USE "MAGIC" GLUE or CONTACT CEMENT. Instead, use vinyl wallpaper
cement that is approved for use in high humidity environments (bath
rooms/showers). You will find this at any good household wallpaper and/or
paint store. I have found that the only ones that work well also require a
primmer/sealer to be installed before the glue/paste. These adhesives,
unlike contact cement or magic glues, will have a reasonable "open" period
before they bond. This allows you to work out the wrinkles and get good
adhesion in the corners. Contact cement sets on contact. It also has
solvents which will discolor and sometimes melt and destroy the vinyl. Try
all adhesive products on a discreet area to test them before you do an
actual repair.



If you work carefully and thoughtfully, you will be happy with your results.
Remember to use plenty of primer, you almost can not use too much. It's
best to start inside the forward hanging locker first to get the hang (get
it?) of the process. If you don't do a perfect job in the hanging locker,
learn from your mistakes before proceeding to more visible repairs. Don't
forget your respirator or I'll get your boat for sale sooner than you wish.
Be careful.



There are many ways to skin a cat, this is just one. You can also use
wooden battens on a fore to aft bias which is easier but, generally not as
attractive.



You can also remove the vinyl and replace it, or put in removable ceiling
panels. However, unless your handy skills approach that of a true
craftsman, these repairs are best left to the pros.



Work slowly at first, consider carefully your every move, use the best
materials you can find, and wear your respirator. You'll be pleased with
the results.



Good luck.



Joel F. Potter, SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"


headliner

bobparry1947 <bob@...>
 

Hello. This is our first message since we bought our boat last July.
Is anybody able to recommend a place where we can have our headliner
replaced/repaired? The previous owner had it repaired using the same
vinyl but it has gradually started to detach again. We expect it to be
down around our ears when we return to the boat. Problem seems to be a
combination of glue failure and disintegration of the foam backing.
The boat is presently in Tunisia and we will probably head east to be
in Turkey next winter.
We know that the older SM's had this problem.

Bob and Ann Parry,
SM#33 Nowornot


Dishes

Krassopoulos Dimitris <dkra@...>
 

I have bought the Amel set from Amel and it is perfect. Good quality and
fits excellent in the divider tray.

Dimitris

_____

From: Roy A. Duddy, Esq. [mailto:rduddy.duddylawoffices@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info


Off Topic, but .... do any of you know where I can buy dinnerware that is
European sized to fit Amel's divider tray? I have been to West Marine and
Boat U.S. as well as a few local chandleries. They all stock larger diameter
plates and saucers than the divider holds. Thanks.

Roy Duddy
Unwineding
Sharki #123
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul [mailto:sailmanpc@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info



Hey there....in response to you question on the watermaker and
washing machine...I too like to make water while doing the wash.
Until lately I have not had a problem running the both together. In
Dec I found that my high pressure pump was leaking...Amel indicated I
would need tho have the pump rebuilt. At the same time the genset had
a hard time starting the watermaker and would kick the breaker unless
I started the watermaker with no other load. In in the Virgins
waiting for my Raymarine GPS and autopilot to be repaired so I could
sail down to Martinque to get the pump rebuilt....well today when
atempting to make water...the pump now stalls the Genset...my bet
more $$$ than just a rebuild....of course only 3 months out of
warranty. One would think the think would last for more than 200
hrs... Paul Camp SM418 Lady H WDB5667@...

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
> As promised, here is the word on Dessalator water makers. It comes
via their
> UK agent who met with Patrick, the number two at Dessalator last
weekend. I
> was hoping to forward an email from them, but to date it has not
arrived.
>
> Firstly our water makers are designed, built and installed with the
salinity
> probe functional. The diverter valve will only send the water to the
> freshwater tank after the 2 minute timer has completed it's cycle
and the
> salinity probe detects that there is a low enough salt content. The
reason
> why my short circuit test of the probe did nothing is that in order
to
> prevent erosion of salinity tester probes, the polarity in reversed
some 500
> times per second. Short circuiting does not simulate salty water. I
guess
> the only way to test it would be to cap the probe hole and dunk the
probe in
> a cup full of salt water.
>
> If at any time the salinity probe detects salt, the unit does not
shut down,
> but diverts the water overboard. The green 'water good' LED will
also change
> colour.
>
> Patrick also said that membrane perforation is very unlikely, the
more
> common problem being that the membranes clog up, causing reduced
output. It
> is possible that an O seal will fail or that a membrane end cap
might split.
> However, if this happens, the salinity probe will detect bad water
and
> immediately operate the diverter valve to send the bad water over
the side.
> The symptoms of a perforated membrane would be an increased flow
rate above
> normal and a low pressure indication.
>
> So in a nutshell, we have nothing to be concerned with. Our
Dessalator water
> makers are perfectly safe and should a membrane failure occur, they
will
> fail to a safe condition.
>
> In our conversation, one interesting point was raised. I don't know
about
> you, but when I am using the washing machine, I do try and use the
gen set
> to advantage by also running the water maker to replace the water
used.
> Unfortunately, I cannot run my 160 l/h unit at more than about 80
l/h, else
> the gen set trips. Does anyone else find this happens? Maybe I have
a slack
> circuit breaker on the Onan. It should trip at 30 amps AC.
>
> Patrick says that to run the water maker out of the green range is
not good
> practice. The reason is that the membranes are constructed by
rolling up the
> material like a roll of wall paper. In order for the membranes to
achieve a
> perfect seal, they need to be under pressure, else sea water can
work its
> way from the centre of the roll to the outside, maybe at
concentrations just
> below the salinity probe detecting unsafe water. It will be OK but
not taste
> quite so good.
>
> I hope this clears up once and for all any doubts about our
equipment, which
> I have always found to be excellent. The latest models have an
automatic
> back flush, which may be beneficial if you don't use your water
maker
> regularly. M. Wagner says that it is only necessary to back flush
if you are
> not using the system for a period of 10 days or so, but automatic
flushing
> might improve the taste and prolong the membrane life if you forget.
>
> I have an inquiry out to see if the modification to an automatic
back flush
> is feasible on our circuit boards, and at what cost. I will post
the answer.
>
> Fair Winds
>
> Ian Shepherd SM 414 'Crusader'
> ----------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>
>
>





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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Dishes

edmund_steele
 

Roy,
We have used ceramic dishes from Dansk - always with a discount coupon!! We haven't broken any yet but if we do, they are not expensive. Our favorite is a fish shaped series that have a deep lip - cobalt blue on white. If you like we can send you a photo of ours.
Ed & Annette
SM #331 'DoodleBug'
edmundsteele@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Roy A. Duddy, Esq. <rduddy.duddylawoffices@...>
 

Off Topic, but .... do any of you know where I can buy dinnerware that is
European sized to fit Amel's divider tray? I have been to West Marine and
Boat U.S. as well as a few local chandleries. They all stock larger diameter
plates and saucers than the divider holds. Thanks.

Roy Duddy
Unwineding
Sharki #123

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul [mailto:sailmanpc@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info



Hey there....in response to you question on the watermaker and
washing machine...I too like to make water while doing the wash.
Until lately I have not had a problem running the both together. In
Dec I found that my high pressure pump was leaking...Amel indicated I
would need tho have the pump rebuilt. At the same time the genset had
a hard time starting the watermaker and would kick the breaker unless
I started the watermaker with no other load. In in the Virgins
waiting for my Raymarine GPS and autopilot to be repaired so I could
sail down to Martinque to get the pump rebuilt....well today when
atempting to make water...the pump now stalls the Genset...my bet
more $$$ than just a rebuild....of course only 3 months out of
warranty. One would think the think would last for more than 200
hrs... Paul Camp SM418 Lady H WDB5667@...

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
> As promised, here is the word on Dessalator water makers. It comes
via their
> UK agent who met with Patrick, the number two at Dessalator last
weekend. I
> was hoping to forward an email from them, but to date it has not
arrived.
>
> Firstly our water makers are designed, built and installed with the
salinity
> probe functional. The diverter valve will only send the water to the
> freshwater tank after the 2 minute timer has completed it's cycle
and the
> salinity probe detects that there is a low enough salt content. The
reason
> why my short circuit test of the probe did nothing is that in order
to
> prevent erosion of salinity tester probes, the polarity in reversed
some 500
> times per second. Short circuiting does not simulate salty water. I
guess
> the only way to test it would be to cap the probe hole and dunk the
probe in
> a cup full of salt water.
>
> If at any time the salinity probe detects salt, the unit does not
shut down,
> but diverts the water overboard. The green 'water good' LED will
also change
> colour.
>
> Patrick also said that membrane perforation is very unlikely, the
more
> common problem being that the membranes clog up, causing reduced
output. It
> is possible that an O seal will fail or that a membrane end cap
might split.
> However, if this happens, the salinity probe will detect bad water
and
> immediately operate the diverter valve to send the bad water over
the side.
> The symptoms of a perforated membrane would be an increased flow
rate above
> normal and a low pressure indication.
>
> So in a nutshell, we have nothing to be concerned with. Our
Dessalator water
> makers are perfectly safe and should a membrane failure occur, they
will
> fail to a safe condition.
>
> In our conversation, one interesting point was raised. I don't know
about
> you, but when I am using the washing machine, I do try and use the
gen set
> to advantage by also running the water maker to replace the water
used.
> Unfortunately, I cannot run my 160 l/h unit at more than about 80
l/h, else
> the gen set trips. Does anyone else find this happens? Maybe I have
a slack
> circuit breaker on the Onan. It should trip at 30 amps AC.
>
> Patrick says that to run the water maker out of the green range is
not good
> practice. The reason is that the membranes are constructed by
rolling up the
> material like a roll of wall paper. In order for the membranes to
achieve a
> perfect seal, they need to be under pressure, else sea water can
work its
> way from the centre of the roll to the outside, maybe at
concentrations just
> below the salinity probe detecting unsafe water. It will be OK but
not taste
> quite so good.
>
> I hope this clears up once and for all any doubts about our
equipment, which
> I have always found to be excellent. The latest models have an
automatic
> back flush, which may be beneficial if you don't use your water
maker
> regularly. M. Wagner says that it is only necessary to back flush
if you are
> not using the system for a period of 10 days or so, but automatic
flushing
> might improve the taste and prolong the membrane life if you forget.
>
> I have an inquiry out to see if the modification to an automatic
back flush
> is feasible on our circuit boards, and at what cost. I will post
the answer.
>
> Fair Winds
>
> Ian Shepherd SM 414 'Crusader'
> ----------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>
>
>





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Water maker power draw

edmund_steele
 

I had a problem with the 160 l / hour watermaker on SM#331 which
tripped the breaker when it was first put into service. There had
been a seal failure problem with the pre-feed pump and I replaced
this with no change in the breaker tripping behavior. Sometimes the
unit would operate for 30 minutes or so before the breaker tripped. I
tried simply replacing the Amel supplied 20 ampere breaker, assuming
that it was faulty but the problem persisted. After several e-mails
to Amel, they agreed that I should replace the breaker with one rated
for 25 amperes. I did this and the unit has operated perfectly for
the past 12 months. I have since discovered that at least one other
Super Maramu owner has had to make the same modification. I have
assumed that the unit must be drawing around 22 amperes in normal
operation – around 4.8 kW but I have not metered this.

Ed Steele
#331 `DoodleBug'


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi Roy and Eric,

thanks for the tip to measure AC current and volts at the AC panel and not
at the genset, thus enabling readings to be obtained both on shore power and
with the Onan running. How stupid of me not to think of doing it from the
AC input to the boat's circuitry!

Another good example of sharing ideas through this site. Thank you both.

Ian Shepherd

-------Original Message-------

From: rbenven44
Date: 01/24/05 23:27:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info


--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
Roy, can you please
tell us what current it draws from your meter? Onan told me that
the 6.5 KW
(renamed 7KW after they were told they had used conservative
measurement
methods), should trip at 30 Amps AC load.
Hi Ian,
I'm sorry to say that my relatively ancient (1997) SM came with
the 24V watermaker, output 50-60 l/hr. So I do not have a direct
reading of load, except the change in battery charging current. My
recollection (which I have shown to be poor!) is that the 24V
watermaker draws about 7 amps at 220V, not much.
My AC ammeter is wired up to the AC distribution box on the
bulkhead above the galley, probably with a shunt to measure amps.
This way it works with both genset and shore power. I have tripped
shore power several times, but never the genset.

Good sailing, Roy







Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman
 

Hi,

I installed an ammeter, voltmeter, frequency meter and a circuit breaker to
the port of my AC panel.

I wired it in such a way that I can measure what I am plugged into before I
turn on the breaker and electrify my boat.

On one pedestal-although it was marked 220 volts it was actually 440 volts.
Glad I have these instruments.

Fair winds,

Eric



SM 376 Kimberlite



_____

From: rbenven44 [mailto:no_reply@...]
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:27 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info




--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
Roy, can you please
tell us what current it draws from your meter? Onan told me that
the 6.5 KW
(renamed 7KW after they were told they had used conservative
measurement
methods), should trip at 30 Amps AC load.
Hi Ian,
I'm sorry to say that my relatively ancient (1997) SM came with
the 24V watermaker, output 50-60 l/hr. So I do not have a direct
reading of load, except the change in battery charging current. My
recollection (which I have shown to be poor!) is that the 24V
watermaker draws about 7 amps at 220V, not much.
My AC ammeter is wired up to the AC distribution box on the
bulkhead above the galley, probably with a shunt to measure amps.
This way it works with both genset and shore power. I have tripped
shore power several times, but never the genset.

Good sailing, Roy







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[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

rbenven44 <no_reply@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
Roy, can you please
tell us what current it draws from your meter? Onan told me that
the 6.5 KW
(renamed 7KW after they were told they had used conservative
measurement
methods), should trip at 30 Amps AC load.
Hi Ian,
I'm sorry to say that my relatively ancient (1997) SM came with
the 24V watermaker, output 50-60 l/hr. So I do not have a direct
reading of load, except the change in battery charging current. My
recollection (which I have shown to be poor!) is that the 24V
watermaker draws about 7 amps at 220V, not much.
My AC ammeter is wired up to the AC distribution box on the
bulkhead above the galley, probably with a shunt to measure amps.
This way it works with both genset and shore power. I have tripped
shore power several times, but never the genset.

Good sailing, Roy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailor 12 volt supply

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi John,

I agree with you, but the Sailors do have one advantage. I keep my printer
paper and envelopes in the same cupboard and the warmth does keep the paper
dry! I also have an Icom 30 Amp 24/12 convertor, but it's over the top
except when using the SSB and the fan is darned noisy.

Maybe something additional to the Sailors giving an output of around 10-15
amps would be useful. If I get around to fixing an entertainment centre in
the aft cabin, I may do that.

I hope that you are glad that the Hydra riddle that you have anguished over
for a while can be solved without buying the expensive B & G compass unit. I
have assumed that all Raytheon autopilot processors have a NMEA output, and
not just the 400G model. Maybe you could have a look at yours and let us
know?

Cheers to Anne also.

Ian

-------Original Message-------

From: John and Anne on Bali Hai
Date: 01/24/05 16:30:15
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailor 12 volt supply


Hello Ian,
I was surprised to see that Amel are still using this outdated
technology. As I understand it these things are basically a lot of
resistors which is why they have low ouitput and need to be in a
ventilated locker to get rid of the heat, much like an electric fire!
I fitted a 25 amp switchmode 24/12volt converter behind the forward
instrument panel and I suppose one day I will put the Sailor voltage
droppers in a boat jumble.

Regards John






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Hydra Heading Input

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Well, it works! Just as B & G said it would. I now get the boats magnetic
heading when 'Nav' is pushed on the Hydra display, and the true (not
apparent) magnetic wind direction on the third push of the 'Wind' page.

As I know that several Amel owners have tried unsuccessfully to achieve this
this is how it's done.

1/ Remove the cover off the bottom of the autopilot computer which is
located in the cupboard above the sink. You should find a NMEA out
connection on the terminal strip. My 400G computer has 2 identical NMEA
outputs. The output is indicated by a down arrow and the terminals are
labeled + and -. Connect a two core cable (preferably shielded) to these
cables and run it through the roof duct to the back of the Hydra panel to
the right of the Nav desk.

2/ Slide out the navigation panel and look for a junction box (386-00-023)
which is connected to the black cable of the Hydra instrument. Also check
that there is label on the back of the instrument says that it is a 'NMEA
FFD' model.

In the junction box, you will see red and blue wires that are on the NMEA
side of the junction box. Connect the wire from the + of your autopilot NMEA
out to the red wire, and the other (-) to the blue.

NOTE: My boat is different to most that I have seen in that it does not have
the junction box at all, presumable because it does not have a Fastnet bus.
Not to worry. Maybe fitting the Furuno GP-80 with 4 data outputs remove the
need for Fastnet?

In this case, remove the cover off the back of the B & G processor which is
mounted in the pull out panel where the display unit is located. Follow the
black lead from the FFD display unit to the terminal strip. You will find
that several wires from the black cable are not in use and are folded back
along the cable.

Look for the brown and blue wires. Connect the NMEA + from the autopilot to
the brown cable and the other (-) to the blue.

Put the panel back and power up the autopilot with the circuit breaker.

3/ Follow the instructions on page 3-13 of your B & G handbook (para 3.4.2
Heading Node Selection) and set the Node number to 96, which is the NMEA
heading input select.

Et Voila, heading will appear when Nav is pushed and the wind direction will
be correct. There is a way to get true heading and true wind as opposed to
magnetic wind, by setting one of the values from 1 to 0, but I have
misplaced my notes and need to go out shortly. If anyone does not have the B
& G handbook and wants the instructions on how to set the Node value to 96,
I will type then out.

If its' so easy, I have to ask why the heck the boat is not wired up this
way in the first place? All it needs is a couple of more cores to the cables
that already run from the autopilot processor to the Hydra.

How satisfying it is to make things better on the boat. Nearly as satisfying
as as trouncing 10 other yachts in a race yesterday. Who says cruising boats
are slow!

Cheers

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader
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Sailor 12 volt supply

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hello Ian,
I was surprised to see that Amel are still using this outdated
technology. As I understand it these things are basically a lot of
resistors which is why they have low ouitput and need to be in a
ventilated locker to get rid of the heat, much like an electric fire!
I fitted a 25 amp switchmode 24/12volt converter behind the forward
instrument panel and I suppose one day I will put the Sailor voltage
droppers in a boat jumble.

Regards John


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi Paul,

sorry to hear about all your problems. when you say that Amel said your high
pressure pump was leaking, I assume that they meant that compressed water
was leaking back past the pistons? I don't quite see how this would increase
the load on the genset. I would have thought that if the pump could not
create enough pressure, then the pistons would not be causing so much back
force against the motor?

Anyway, what Roy has suggested makes good sense. I did research last week at
the London Boat Show the possibility of fitting an AC ammeter in the galley
to monitor the genset load.

The easiest way to do this would be to get the type that uses a current
transformer which could be mounted at the genset, and simply run a pair of
light gauge wires to the instrument in the galley. Cost is about 50 Pounds
Sterling.

It is unfortunate that Amel do not mention the load that the 160 l/h water
maker creates in the list of loads in the user manual. Roy, can you please
tell us what current it draws from your meter? Onan told me that the 6.5 KW
(renamed 7KW after they were told they had used conservative measurement
methods), should trip at 30 Amps AC load.

I am also considering fitting a DC ammeter to the Sailor 24/12V converters
that run our 12V equipment. It's very easy to exceed the 6 amp rating on
these units as we add more and more goodies that mostly come as 12V input
only. I think I will run my second laptop from the one that feeds only the
VHF, as far as I can see.

One of todays projects is to get the Hydra to read the correct wind
direction! More later .... perhaps.

Incidentally, Hanna TDS1 salinity meters can be obtained new for just $22
from Ebay. I also noticed there that there is another manufacturer that
makes a panel mounted digital display tester for just $74. This is mounted
permanently in line with the water maker output and will display the TDS
reading at the push of a button. I have not yet checked, but I reckon it
could be mounted on the sink bulkhead, perhaps to the left of the sink.

Regards

Ian Shepherd #414 'Crusader'
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Watermaker salinity sensor - clarification

rbenven44 <no_reply@...>
 

Alas, it seems my memory is weakening. I finally spoke this weekend
to the SM owner who first told me about the sensor issue. This is
the corrected version of what he told me several years ago:
This owner, "A", heard from another SM owner "B" that his salinity
sensor wasn't working. This was based on the constant two-minute
start-up delay and two tests: shorting the contacts didn't affect
the unit, and dipping them in a glass of salt water didn't either.
Owner "A" conducted the same tests and obtained the same results. At
the time, both owners speculated that the salinity sensor wasn't
connected, and assumed that it had been done on purpose. This is
when I learned about the issue.
Owner "B" then contacted Dessalator and was told that his unit
wasn't working properly, and that the solution was replacement of the
circuit board at a cost of several hundred dollars. (it was out of
warranty, of course). The alternative was to purchase a simple
salinity tester for about $50. This is what owner "A" eventually did.
I apologize for any misrepresentation of facts or events. In the
future, I will make sure of my facts before reporting hearsay.
Thanks, Ian, for researching the facts for all of us.
Regards, Roy


Monitoring of AC loads

rbenven44 <no_reply@...>
 

Hi,
I have been following the discussion about running the washing
machine and watermaker at the same time, with some owners reporting
overloading the genset.
A few years ago, I had Amel (in Hyeres) install an AC voltmeter and
ammeter so that I could monitor AC voltage and loads. This was
mostly related to low amperage typically available dockside in
Europe, and I wanted to know which appliances I could run without
tripping the circuit breakers dockside.
Since then, I have found these instruments to be among the most
useful on board. They tell me when I am close to overloading the
genset or shore power, and most importantly, tell me when an
appliance is consuming too much (or too little) power. It also is a
good check on shore power voltage. It's a useful diagnostic tool. In
the case of the 220V watermaker, it would warn of impending pump
failure.
Since I didn't do the installation myself, I can't provide How-to
help, except to say that the meters were mounted inside the
compartment over the galley sink, where the steering cables are
visible. I'm sure any good electrician (and many owners) could
install them.
I would highly recommend these meters.
BTW, the washing machine uses electricity mostly to heat water, not
to spin, so running at a cooler wash temperature reduces load.

Regards, Roy

PS I am still waiting to hear from the SM owner in Europe who told
me about the salinity sensor on the watermaker being disconnected on
installation... I will post any information received.


Re: Water Maker Info

Paul
 

Hey there....in response to you question on the watermaker and
washing machine...I too like to make water while doing the wash.
Until lately I have not had a problem running the both together. In
Dec I found that my high pressure pump was leaking...Amel indicated I
would need tho have the pump rebuilt. At the same time the genset had
a hard time starting the watermaker and would kick the breaker unless
I started the watermaker with no other load. In in the Virgins
waiting for my Raymarine GPS and autopilot to be repaired so I could
sail down to Martinque to get the pump rebuilt....well today when
atempting to make water...the pump now stalls the Genset...my bet
more $$$ than just a rebuild....of course only 3 months out of
warranty. One would think the think would last for more than 200
hrs... Paul Camp SM418 Lady H WDB5667@...

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
As promised, here is the word on Dessalator water makers. It comes
via their
UK agent who met with Patrick, the number two at Dessalator last
weekend. I
was hoping to forward an email from them, but to date it has not
arrived.

Firstly our water makers are designed, built and installed with the
salinity
probe functional. The diverter valve will only send the water to the
freshwater tank after the 2 minute timer has completed it's cycle
and the
salinity probe detects that there is a low enough salt content. The
reason
why my short circuit test of the probe did nothing is that in order
to
prevent erosion of salinity tester probes, the polarity in reversed
some 500
times per second. Short circuiting does not simulate salty water. I
guess
the only way to test it would be to cap the probe hole and dunk the
probe in
a cup full of salt water.

If at any time the salinity probe detects salt, the unit does not
shut down,
but diverts the water overboard. The green 'water good' LED will
also change
colour.

Patrick also said that membrane perforation is very unlikely, the
more
common problem being that the membranes clog up, causing reduced
output. It
is possible that an O seal will fail or that a membrane end cap
might split.
However, if this happens, the salinity probe will detect bad water
and
immediately operate the diverter valve to send the bad water over
the side.
The symptoms of a perforated membrane would be an increased flow
rate above
normal and a low pressure indication.

So in a nutshell, we have nothing to be concerned with. Our
Dessalator water
makers are perfectly safe and should a membrane failure occur, they
will
fail to a safe condition.

In our conversation, one interesting point was raised. I don't know
about
you, but when I am using the washing machine, I do try and use the
gen set
to advantage by also running the water maker to replace the water
used.
Unfortunately, I cannot run my 160 l/h unit at more than about 80
l/h, else
the gen set trips. Does anyone else find this happens? Maybe I have
a slack
circuit breaker on the Onan. It should trip at 30 amps AC.

Patrick says that to run the water maker out of the green range is
not good
practice. The reason is that the membranes are constructed by
rolling up the
material like a roll of wall paper. In order for the membranes to
achieve a
perfect seal, they need to be under pressure, else sea water can
work its
way from the centre of the roll to the outside, maybe at
concentrations just
below the salinity probe detecting unsafe water. It will be OK but
not taste
quite so good.

I hope this clears up once and for all any doubts about our
equipment, which
I have always found to be excellent. The latest models have an
automatic
back flush, which may be beneficial if you don't use your water
maker
regularly. M. Wagner says that it is only necessary to back flush
if you are
not using the system for a period of 10 days or so, but automatic
flushing
might improve the taste and prolong the membrane life if you forget.

I have an inquiry out to see if the modification to an automatic
back flush
is feasible on our circuit boards, and at what cost. I will post
the answer.

Fair Winds

Ian Shepherd SM 414 'Crusader'
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SM in Antarctica

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

For anyone interested in cruising Antarctica check out the website of SM Pure Magic. Irish flag, owned by Peter Skillen, launched last summer and now back in the Beagle channel after visiting Antarctica and about to set off for S Georgia and Cape Town. Web site www. getjealous.com/peter
On a different note, well done Ian for sorting out the position on the watermaker sensor.
And in connection with seals for the electric head do check that your spare parts kit actually contains a seal.Mine didnt, despite the fact that Jabsco boast that it is the only part you will have to watch out for. What Jabsco were doing producing a spare parts kit which ( by design) omitted the one spare part you need is beyond me. I can only assume that they owned shares in DHL.
Lastly, I too suffered from dezincification on my Onan heatexchanger.I brought this to the attention of Onan in the UK ( the branch that actually serves Amel) and they couldnt understand it. Wouldnt actually accept what is was. At that stage all that was happening was that the paint was crumbling off , not on the end plates as with John , but around the entry pipe. Onan told me that the anode was not needed and indeed when extracted it was in good condition. When I was next in La Rochelle, two years after launch, Amel knew exactly what I was concerned about and told me that the effect of the pipes was to insulate the heatexchanger from the rest of the engine and they put a metal strap onto the heat exchanger and connected it separately to the tray. One year later I had to fit a new exchanger, though to be fair to Amel the damage had probably already been done.Despite strapping the new exchanger, I see that there 18 months later there are fresh signs of crumbling paint...
Finally, taking off the water pump to change the impeller on the Onan is straightforward if you have a small ratchet set to access the the outboard bolt.( for which I am indebted to Kimberlite)
Fair winds, Ian and Judy, SM 302, Pen Azen, Chile


TECHNICAL INFO 1985 MARAMU 48' FURLING SYSTEMS

DENNIS STULLER <svcheechako@...>
 

I RECENTLY PURCHASED A 1985 AMEL MARAMU 48' HULL#186
WHICH HAS PROBLEMS WITH THE MAIN FURLING SYSTEM.

APPARENTLY A BINDING BEARING AT THE TOP OF THE MAST
CAUSED THE MAIN DRIVE SHAFT TO TWIST OFF IN THE MAST.
AMEL ADVISES ME THAT THEY HAVE NEITHER PARTS NOR
TECHNICAL INFORMATION FOR MY BOAT AND ADVISED ME TO
TRY TO MANUFACTURE PARTS.

I AM HOPING THAT SOME OTHER OWNER OF A MARAMU OF MID
80S VINTAGE MIGHT SHARE THEIR TECHNICAL MANUALS AND
KNOWLEDGE. I WOULD HAPPILY PAY FOR ANY INFORMATION
WHICH WOULD ASSIST ME IN GETTING THIS BOAT SAILING.
THIS BOAT HAS ELECTRIC FURLING ON THE MAIN AND JIB AND
MANUAL FURLING ON THE MIZZEN.

I HAVE HAD MANY AMEL OWNERS BRAG TO ME ABOUT THEIR
LEVEL OF SATISFACTION WITH THEIR BOAT. HAS ANYONE ELSE
HAD THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

THANKS, DENNIS AND KIKA STULLER S/Y DENALI




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