Date   

Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

eric freedman
 

Don't know about your engine , I have the yanmar 1 gallon at about 1800 rpm
almost 7 knots in flat water -red line is 3600 rpm. Correct engine speed
for cruising on my engine is 2800 rpm.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:44 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel





Volvo TMD22

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@optonlin
<mailto:kimberlite%40optonline.net> e.net> wrote:

From: kimberlite <kimberlite@optonlin <mailto:kimberlite%40optonline.net>
e.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:27 PM



What engine do you have?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel

I haven't actually calculated my "mileage", but was going on what my Amel
owners' CD said..."6 l/hr fuel consumption at cruising speed". I think I'm
doing better than that, but figured I might be motoring into a heavy sea and
was being conservative. What should I really expect to average?
Thanks,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com
<mailto:dlm48%40aol.com>
<mailto:dlm48% 40aol.com> > wrote:

From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <mailto:dlm48%40aol.com>
<mailto:dlm48% 40aol.com> >
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtow ners%40yahoogrou ps.com>
yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 4:56 PM

you wrote "That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there,
too...enough to motor ~140nm."

I cant believe you can only motor for 140 miles on 40 gallons of diesel.
Even at a gallon an hour that is 40 hours motoring at i would assume 6 knots
assuming calm weather 40x6 is 240 miles.

regards

David

2009/10/6 Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo. com>



Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary. Two extremes on the spectrum of what's
"enough" fuel for the passage. Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
wrote:

From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>"
<amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243







Re: [Amel] Preparing for a winter aboard.

eric freedman
 

Sail south it is a lot easier..



However it should be easy to winterize the boat being that you have one sea
chest. I would run the a lot of the pink drinkable antifreeze into the sea
chest with the seacock closed. There are instructions in the Amel book about
putting up the boat for a few months. It will be the same except you use
antifreeze instead of fresh water. I would also winterize the genset. If you
need it in an emergency you just have to open the seacock.



Don't forget the a/c system, toilets, and anchor wash and the wet bilge, and
main engine...



I would empty most of the water tank and pour in gallons of antifreeze.

Also some antifreeze in the sink traps.

I am sure I forgot many things but I think this will be a good start



I don't know about the batteries freezing.



Fair Winds

Eric









_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jose
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel] Preparing for a winter aboard.





My wife and I are going live aboard our SM2K at Constitution Marina in
Boston Harbor this winter. Aside from the 3 built in electric heaters we
plan to have three more connected to the 110V electric outlet of the slip,
plus an extra one on the engine room. We also plan to shrink rap the boat
with transparent plastic and winterize the engine.

We would greatly appreciate any suggestions of how to best prepare the boat,
for example:
1) Any danger that the water tank could freeze even if the boat is kept warm
inside?
2) Winterize or not the generator? I thought it could be a safety in case we
lose power.

Any ideas or hints of how to make this easier short of sailing south?


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

karkauai
 

Yes, Eric.  It has the liferaft and the Sea Anchor, and ditch bag and extraduty life vests.  That pretty much fills that locker up.
Kent
Kristy SM 243

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net> wrote:


From: kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:30 PM


 



Do you have a liferaft locker outboard of the cockpit on the port side?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:27 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel

Aha! See, I don't know what I'd do without you guys. Seems like I see
people carrying thier gerry cans along the rail all the time. You probably
just saved me from myself again. Thanks.

Hmmm, so do you keep your life raft, drogue, and sea anchor in the aft
locker or somewhere else? My aft locker is filling up with bicycles and
extra sails and dinghy, etc.

Does the 55 gal of fuel on one side make her list at all?

Thanks again,
Kent


--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@ optonlin
<mailto:kimberlite% 40optonline. net> e.net> wrote:

From: kimberlite <kimberlite@ optonlin <mailto:kimberlite% 40optonline. net>
e.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtow ners%40yahoogrou ps.com>
yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 6:50 PM

Kent,

We carry 11 cans in the port cockpit locker.

Lashing cans to the rail is a bad idea. When you get hit by a big wave you
can kiss the rail goodbye puls anything it is connected to.

Some people keep the cans in the rope locker in the cockpit

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtow ners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:10 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov for my
trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all your advice
and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel. Just how
much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans on deck, I'm only
seeing the spaces between the last three aft staunchions that I could lash
them without interfering with access to either cleats or jib cars or
downwind poles. That would be only 95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side.
That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough
to motor ~140nm. Is that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple
of cans as emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry for
offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something that I could
just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too rough to really cook
under way. How much would you carry with you? I was thinking enough to feed
the crew a hot meal a day for half the anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

karkauai
 

Volvo TMD22

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net> wrote:


From: kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:27 PM


 



What engine do you have?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel

I haven't actually calculated my "mileage", but was going on what my Amel
owners' CD said..."6 l/hr fuel consumption at cruising speed". I think I'm
doing better than that, but figured I might be motoring into a heavy sea and
was being conservative. What should I really expect to average?
Thanks,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com
<mailto:dlm48% 40aol.com> > wrote:

From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <mailto:dlm48% 40aol.com> >
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtow ners%40yahoogrou ps.com>
yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 4:56 PM

you wrote "That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there,
too...enough to motor ~140nm."

I cant believe you can only motor for 140 miles on 40 gallons of diesel.
Even at a gallon an hour that is 40 hours motoring at i would assume 6 knots
assuming calm weather 40x6 is 240 miles.

regards

David

2009/10/6 Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo. com>



Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary. Two extremes on the spectrum of what's
"enough" fuel for the passage. Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
wrote:

From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>"
<amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Preparing for a winter aboard.

Jose <jgvenegas@...>
 

My wife and I are going live aboard our SM2K at Constitution Marina in Boston Harbor this winter. Aside from the 3 built in electric heaters we plan to have three more connected to the 110V electric outlet of the slip, plus an extra one on the engine room. We also plan to shrink rap the boat with transparent plastic and winterize the engine.

We would greatly appreciate any suggestions of how to best prepare the boat, for example:
1) Any danger that the water tank could freeze even if the boat is kept warm inside?
2) Winterize or not the generator? I thought it could be a safety in case we lose power.

Any ideas or hints of how to make this easier short of sailing south?


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

eric freedman
 

Do you have a liferaft locker outboard of the cockpit on the port side?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:27 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel





Aha! See, I don't know what I'd do without you guys. Seems like I see
people carrying thier gerry cans along the rail all the time. You probably
just saved me from myself again. Thanks.

Hmmm, so do you keep your life raft, drogue, and sea anchor in the aft
locker or somewhere else? My aft locker is filling up with bicycles and
extra sails and dinghy, etc.

Does the 55 gal of fuel on one side make her list at all?

Thanks again,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@optonlin
<mailto:kimberlite%40optonline.net> e.net> wrote:

From: kimberlite <kimberlite@optonlin <mailto:kimberlite%40optonline.net>
e.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 6:50 PM



Kent,

We carry 11 cans in the port cockpit locker.

Lashing cans to the rail is a bad idea. When you get hit by a big wave you
can kiss the rail goodbye puls anything it is connected to.

Some people keep the cans in the rope locker in the cockpit

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:10 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov for my
trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all your advice
and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel. Just how
much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans on deck, I'm only
seeing the spaces between the last three aft staunchions that I could lash
them without interfering with access to either cleats or jib cars or
downwind poles. That would be only 95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side.
That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough
to motor ~140nm. Is that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple
of cans as emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry for
offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something that I could
just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too rough to really cook
under way. How much would you carry with you? I was thinking enough to feed
the crew a hot meal a day for half the anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

eric freedman
 

What engine do you have?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:05 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel





I haven't actually calculated my "mileage", but was going on what my Amel
owners' CD said..."6 l/hr fuel consumption at cruising speed". I think I'm
doing better than that, but figured I might be motoring into a heavy sea and
was being conservative. What should I really expect to average?
Thanks,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com
<mailto:dlm48%40aol.com> > wrote:

From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <mailto:dlm48%40aol.com> >
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 4:56 PM



you wrote "That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there,
too...enough to motor ~140nm."

I cant believe you can only motor for 140 miles on 40 gallons of diesel.
Even at a gallon an hour that is 40 hours motoring at i would assume 6 knots
assuming calm weather 40x6 is 240 miles.

regards

David

2009/10/6 Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo. com>



Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary. Two extremes on the spectrum of what's
"enough" fuel for the passage. Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
wrote:

From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>"
<amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243







Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

karkauai
 

Aha!  See, I don't know what I'd do without you guys.  Seems like I see people carrying thier gerry cans along the rail all the time.  You probably just saved me from myself again.  Thanks.
 
Hmmm, so do you keep your life raft, drogue, and sea anchor in the aft locker or somewhere else?   My aft locker is filling up with bicycles and extra sails and dinghy, etc.

Does the 55 gal of fuel on one side make her list at all?
 
Thanks again,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net> wrote:


From: kimberlite <kimberlite@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 6:50 PM


 



Kent,

We carry 11 cans in the port cockpit locker.

Lashing cans to the rail is a bad idea. When you get hit by a big wave you
can kiss the rail goodbye puls anything it is connected to.

Some people keep the cans in the rope locker in the cockpit

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

_____

From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:10 PM
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra Fuel

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov for my
trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all your advice
and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel. Just how
much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans on deck, I'm only
seeing the spaces between the last three aft staunchions that I could lash
them without interfering with access to either cleats or jib cars or
downwind poles. That would be only 95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side.
That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough
to motor ~140nm. Is that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple
of cans as emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry for
offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something that I could
just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too rough to really cook
under way. How much would you carry with you? I was thinking enough to feed
the crew a hot meal a day for half the anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

karkauai
 

I haven't actually calculated my "mileage", but was going on what my Amel owners' CD said..."6 l/hr fuel consumption at cruising speed".  I think I'm doing better than that, but figured I might be motoring into a heavy sea and was being conservative.  What should I really expect to average?
Thanks,
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com> wrote:


From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 4:56 PM


 



you wrote "That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there,
too...enough to motor ~140nm."

I cant believe you can only motor for 140 miles on 40 gallons of diesel.
Even at a gallon an hour that is 40 hours motoring at i would assume 6 knots
assuming calm weather 40x6 is 240 miles.

regards

David

2009/10/6 Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo. com>



Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary. Two extremes on the spectrum of what's
"enough" fuel for the passage. Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
wrote:

From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic. net <ric%40kitchenmagic .net>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning /Extra
Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>"
<amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

eric freedman
 

Kent,

We carry 11 cans in the port cockpit locker.

Lashing cans to the rail is a bad idea. When you get hit by a big wave you
can kiss the rail goodbye puls anything it is connected to.

Some people keep the cans in the rope locker in the cockpit

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:10 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel





Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov for my
trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all your advice
and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel. Just how
much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans on deck, I'm only
seeing the spaces between the last three aft staunchions that I could lash
them without interfering with access to either cleats or jib cars or
downwind poles. That would be only 95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side.
That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough
to motor ~140nm. Is that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple
of cans as emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry for
offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something that I could
just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too rough to really cook
under way. How much would you carry with you? I was thinking enough to feed
the crew a hot meal a day for half the anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243


Re: [Amel] Windlass Buttons

eric freedman
 

Kent,

To install my windlass switches,

I had to remove the two bolts on the aft end of the lofrans windlass. Mine
were bolted in place from the inside of the windlass cover.

Very simple task.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel] Windlass Buttons





Hi, all,
I've just received two new switches and four extra rubber covers for the
buttons on top of my windlass. I tried unscrewing the outer rings on the
switches, but they turn without backing out. I tried prying them up
(gently), also without success. Is there a trick to getting them out or do I
have to remove the casing from the back of the windlass?
Thanks,
Kent
Kristy SM 243


Re: [Amel] Solar Panels

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

Jim, I put two 130 watt panels on top of the aft cabin. I only had to drill one small hole to run the wire down the mizzen mast. I mounted the panels on stainless steel tubing and clamps that are used for bimini tops, clamping them to the hand railings. They have a 25 year warranty and I can even put the dinghy on top of them. Be sure you get a solar controller box with them, it gives you max amps. See pictures in photos on Moon Dog. I can run fridge. and freezer and still charge the batteries during the day. I love them. I have to move the mizzen boom from one side to the other but not a big deal. If I had dinghy davits I'd mount a couple more on top of it and I wouldn't need a generator. John "Moon Dog" SM 248



To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: linda.desalvo@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:03:16 +0000
Subject: [Amel] Solar Panels





We are in the process of investigating and installing solar panels on our 1998 SM #207. Is there any of you that have installed solar panels and how have they performed. We want to install them on our rails and hope to get 100 amps from them. If any of you have advise for us please email me at ldelsavo@bigplanet.com Thanks Jim DeSalvo









_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

David Mackintosh <dlm48@...>
 

you wrote "That's about 40 gallons if I don't tie some dinghy fuel there,
too...enough to motor ~140nm."

I cant believe you can only motor for 140 miles on 40 gallons of diesel.
Even at a gallon an hour that is 40 hours motoring at i would assume 6 knots
assuming calm weather 40x6 is 240 miles.

regards

David

2009/10/6 Kent Robertson <karkauai@yahoo.com>



Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary. Two extremes on the spectrum of what's
"enough" fuel for the passage. Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic.net <ric%40kitchenmagic.net>>
wrote:

From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic.net <ric%40kitchenmagic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra
Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243







Re: [Amel] I: santorin internal skins

Ric <ric@...>
 

I have had my 1990 santorin SN 24 completely redone in the US
(annapolis) by professionals. The entire interior walls, ceilings,
cupboards, heads (including removal of the sinks) took over 1 month &
frequently 2 men. The results were spectacular. Cost $15,000 U.S
Worth every dollar! Very messy, difficult work. Look for someone that
does power boats & cars interiors

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 6, 2009, at 3:03 PM, "Lars H. Knudsen" <museum@mail.tele.dk>
wrote:

Hi Attilio and Maria

I am also owner of a 1993 Santorin and have had the same experience
with the internal vinyl coming off the fiberglass.

I also knew that this would happen as it happens to all Amel of the
year 1993 and before. I believe that they changed to the new felt-
backed vinyl in 1994. Although my boat is actually lying in Tunisia
I have chosen to re-glue and re-attach the vinyl after vacuuming off
the old foam. It comes off quite easily but is very messy and you
have to carry mask and some eye protection.

I have taken it bit by bit and used a special and very sticky
(probably latex) glue that is especially suited for laying floor in
wet rooms – bathrooms – and it seems to be very good. At least
the first pieces that I glued more than a year ago is holding perfec
tly.

I could probably pay some Tunisian craftsmen for doing the job but
although they can be very skilled I must admit that I prefer to do
the job myself. I am dismounting what I can to protect and make the
job of gluing easier, and I am quite satisfied with the look of it.
Yes, it’s not perfect, but I will get a nice looking interior for a
small fraction of the cost at Amel – and it will probably hold for m
any years to come, even in the hot climate in Tunisia.

So that my experience with re-gluing. Big job, messy but satisfying.
And cheap.

Best regards,

Lars

Santorin #79 Salvagny

Lying El Kantaoui, Tunisia

Fra: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
] På vegne af Attilio Siviero
Sendt: 6. oktober 2009 09:54
Til: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Maria Buttignol
Emne: [Amel] I: santorin internal skins

Hi everybody,

sadly nobody could answer to the call below, thus I insist.

Further, some time ago I saw the web site of a maintenance company
maybe based in Southern France and specialized on Amel boats
refitting. Unfortunately I did not record the site address.

Can somebody help me in this? I remember that they changed some
iternal skins of Santorin. Maybe they can help us with the best
solution.

Thanks a lot

Attilio&Maria Amel Santorin#84 "Sisila" asiviero1@gmail.com <mailto:asiviero1
%40gmail.com>

----- Messaggio inoltrato -----
Da: Attilio Siviero <attilio.siviero@yahoo.com
<mailto:attilio.siviero%40yahoo.com> >
A: Attilio Siviero su Gmail <asiviero1@gmail.com
<mailto:asiviero1%40gmail.com> >
Cc: Maria Buttignol <bumari@tiscali.it <mailto:bumari%40tiscali.it> >
Inviato: Venerdì 18 settembre 2009, 9:58:40
Oggetto: santorin internal skins

Hi all Satorin owners,
my 1993 Santorin purchased in Le Lavandou is loosing her internal
skin, at least for 80%.
It was forecasted, but no for such portion.
Amel Hyeres said that in France it could cost up to 15k€ to change a
ll skins, better to do in Italy or Tunisia (?). Also they said that
maybe they still have some rolls of that plastic skin in La Rochelle.
Now I have the boat in Cagliari, which is actually in Italy (even if
not Tunisia, but very close:-)), and the local craftman said that it
is not possible to recover the old skin, even after removal of the
sponge, because the regluing will give a lot of imperfections
(bubbles).
Anybody had such experience, and what lesson was lernt?
Thanks a lot
Attilio&Maria Santorin#84 "Sisila"
asiviero1@gmail.com <mailto:asiviero1%40gmail.com>

__________________________________________________
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tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
http://mail.yahoo.it



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] I: santorin internal skins

Lars H. Knudsen <museum@...>
 

Hi Attilio and Maria



I am also owner of a 1993 Santorin and have had the same experience with the internal vinyl coming off the fiberglass.



I also knew that this would happen as it happens to all Amel of the year 1993 and before. I believe that they changed to the new felt-backed vinyl in 1994. Although my boat is actually lying in Tunisia I have chosen to re-glue and re-attach the vinyl after vacuuming off the old foam. It comes off quite easily but is very messy and you have to carry mask and some eye protection.



I have taken it bit by bit and used a special and very sticky (probably latex) glue that is especially suited for laying floor in wet rooms – bathrooms – and it seems to be very good. At least the first pieces that I glued more than a year ago is holding perfectly.



I could probably pay some Tunisian craftsmen for doing the job but although they can be very skilled I must admit that I prefer to do the job myself. I am dismounting what I can to protect and make the job of gluing easier, and I am quite satisfied with the look of it. Yes, it’s not perfect, but I will get a nice looking interior for a small fraction of the cost at Amel – and it will probably hold for many years to come, even in the hot climate in Tunisia.



So that my experience with re-gluing. Big job, messy but satisfying. And cheap.



Best regards,

Lars

Santorin #79 Salvagny

Lying El Kantaoui, Tunisia



Fra: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Attilio Siviero
Sendt: 6. oktober 2009 09:54
Til: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Maria Buttignol
Emne: [Amel] I: santorin internal skins





Hi everybody,

sadly nobody could answer to the call below, thus I insist.

Further, some time ago I saw the web site of a maintenance company maybe based in Southern France and specialized on Amel boats refitting. Unfortunately I did not record the site address.

Can somebody help me in this? I remember that they changed some iternal skins of Santorin. Maybe they can help us with the best solution.

Thanks a lot

Attilio&Maria Amel Santorin#84 "Sisila" asiviero1@gmail.com <mailto:asiviero1%40gmail.com>



----- Messaggio inoltrato -----
Da: Attilio Siviero <attilio.siviero@yahoo.com <mailto:attilio.siviero%40yahoo.com> >
A: Attilio Siviero su Gmail <asiviero1@gmail.com <mailto:asiviero1%40gmail.com> >
Cc: Maria Buttignol <bumari@tiscali.it <mailto:bumari%40tiscali.it> >
Inviato: Venerdì 18 settembre 2009, 9:58:40
Oggetto: santorin internal skins

Hi all Satorin owners,
my 1993 Santorin purchased in Le Lavandou is loosing her internal skin, at least for 80%.
It was forecasted, but no for such portion.
Amel Hyeres said that in France it could cost up to 15k€ to change all skins, better to do in Italy or Tunisia (?). Also they said that maybe they still have some rolls of that plastic skin in La Rochelle.
Now I have the boat in Cagliari, which is actually in Italy (even if not Tunisia, but very close:-)), and the local craftman said that it is not possible to recover the old skin, even after removal of the sponge, because the regluing will give a lot of imperfections (bubbles).
Anybody had such experience, and what lesson was lernt?
Thanks a lot
Attilio&Maria Santorin#84 "Sisila"
asiviero1@gmail.com <mailto:asiviero1%40gmail.com>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
http://mail.yahoo.it

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


+Re:Windlass Buttons

Jeffrey Rapp <rapp.jeffrey@...>
 

Hi
I just did this. You have to remove the back case.
Jeff


Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel

karkauai
 

Thanks for the input, Ric & Gary.  Two extremes on the spectrum of what's "enough" fuel for the passage.  Anyone else care to weigh in?
Kent

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Ric <ric@kitchenmagic.net> wrote:


From: Ric <ric@kitchenmagic.net>
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Heading South for the Winter/Provisioning/Extra Fuel
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:39 AM


 



I would forget freeze dried. If its rough & no one feels like cooking,
open.a soup can. Some die hard sailors will try to sail even when
going 3 knots. I have a 4-5 knot rule & motorsail at times. 200 to 250
gals gives you enough. Keep a fuel log with engine & genset hours.
Bring lots of oil, antifreeze too

Ric Gottschalk
Bali Hai SN24

On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Kent Robertson" <karkauai@yahoo. com> wrote:

Hi again, folks,
It's actually looking like I'll have everything ready to go by Nov
for my trip out to Bermuda and S to the Caribbean. Thank you for all
your advice and help.
I've got a couple of other questions:
1. A couple of you have said I should take "plenty" of extra fuel.
Just how much is "plenty"? In looking at places to lash Gerry cans
on deck, I'm only seeing the spaces between the last three aft
staunchions that I could lash them without interfering with access
to either cleats or jib cars or downwind poles. That would be only
95 inches, or about ?4 cans on each side. That's about 40 gallons if
I don't tie some dinghy fuel there, too...enough to motor ~140nm. Is
that worth all the effort, or do you just carry a couple of cans as
emergency fuel and save them for coming into harbors/docks or
maneuvering in a storm situation?
2. Does anyone have a favorite freeze dried brand that they carry
for offshore passages? I'm thinking it'd be nice to have something
that I could just heat up some water and have a hot meal if it's too
rough to really cook under way. How much would you carry with you?
I was thinking enough to feed the crew a hot meal a day for half the
anticipated time of passage.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Kent
Kristy SM2000#243


Re: Windlass Buttons

karkauai
 

Thanks Gary and Jeff, one more thing off the list.
Kent


Re: [Amel] Solar Panels

Eric Lindholm
 

100 amps per day I assume? I have solar panels on my motorhome and the largest ones put out 8 amps per hour max, between late morning and and mid afternoon, 5 to 6 hours. They need direct sun, no clouds, to put out full power. I have seen the output drop to only 2 amps from 8 amps when a cloud passes over. Eric maramu 105




________________________________
From: linda.desalvo <linda.desalvo@yahoo.com>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 9:03:16 AM
Subject: [Amel] Solar Panels

 
We are in the process of investigating and installing solar panels on our 1998 SM #207. Is there any of you that have installed solar panels and how have they performed. We want to install them on our rails and hope to get 100 amps from them. If any of you have advise for us please email me at ldelsavo@bigplanet. com Thanks Jim DeSalvo




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: I: santorin internal skins

Eric Lindholm
 

Attilio. I replaced the interior vinyl "skins" on my Maramu. Big job. On the vertical walls, I had to not only remove the vinyl, but also the old glue, so the new glue would stick. Had to use a strong paint remover to do this. I did not want to do this on the ceiling, so I cut panels to cover the ceiling, and covered the panels. This worked great. I did not have to remove the old glue overhead, and I now have panels that are easily removable to access overhead bolts, wiring, and such. I did this myself, and it took me a month. Lots of work. I was able to match the original vinyl almost exactly through my local supply house. Good luck. Eric





________________________________
From: Wolfgang <wolfgangklh@yahoo.de>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 2:02:45 AM
Subject: [Amel] Re: I: santorin internal skins

 
Hi Attilio, I'm the pre-owner of Kavanga, Santorin #69. I did this work in 2000 and it is right, that it was not as perfect as the original. The worst work was cleaning the skin and the walls of the foam-dust. I used a german glue or paste, but I don't know the name any more. It worked well because of the old fitting skin-parts. But there were some bubbles and you saw the rawness of the ceiling and walls. I sold the boat in 2002 to Willem, the dutch new owner, who is on Kavanga at the moment in greece I guess. Maybe ask him directly, how the work looks like now after another 7 years.

Good luck Wolfgang

--- In amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com, Attilio Siviero <attilio.siviero@ ...> wrote:

Hi everybody,

sadly nobody could answer to the call below, thus I insist.

Further, some time ago I saw the web site of a maintenance company maybe based in Southern France and specialized on Amel boats refitting. Unfortunately I did not record the site address.

Can somebody help me in this? I remember that they changed some iternal skins of Santorin. Maybe they can help us with the best solution.

Thanks a lot

Attilio&Maria Amel Santorin#84  "Sisila" asiviero1@.. .

 


----- Messaggio inoltrato -----
Da: Attilio Siviero <attilio.siviero@ ...>
A: Attilio Siviero su Gmail <asiviero1@. ..>
Cc: Maria Buttignol <bumari@...>
Inviato: Venerdì 18 settembre 2009, 9:58:40
Oggetto: santorin internal skins


Hi all Satorin owners,
my 1993 Santorin purchased in Le Lavandou is loosing her internal skin, at least for 80%.
It was forecasted, but no for such portion.
Amel Hyeres said that in France it could cost up to 15k€ to change all skins, better to do in Italy or Tunisia (?). Also they said that maybe they still have some rolls of that plastic skin in La Rochelle.
Now I have the boat in Cagliari, which is actually in Italy (even if not Tunisia, but very close:-)), and the local craftman said that it is not possible to recover the old skin, even after removal of the sponge, because the regluing will give a lot of imperfections (bubbles).
Anybody had such experience, and what lesson was lernt?
Thanks a lot
Attilio&Maria Santorin#84 "Sisila"
asiviero1@.. .

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
Do You Yahoo!?
Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]