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Standing Rigging Replacement Interval & Techniques

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

As my boat is now 8 years old I am beginning to think about standing rigging replacement. I have heard various opinions about when to do that, (e.g. at ten years, depends on miles and types of sailing, depends on where the boat is etc). My boat has spent 6 years in the Caribbean and 2 years on the east coast of the US. We have sailed only about six months of each year due to hurricane storage on the hard. Total sea miles is about 15,000. My boat has the original Amel supplied standing rigging with swaged fittings. I consider my boat in the class of driven only by a little old lady to church on Sundays yet it lives in a harsh environment and has weather some serious sailing.

I would be interested in hearing others opinions. Do you just replace the swaged fittings and cable or do you need to replace the turnbuckles and other attaching fittings? Do you do this on condition or based on calendar years, or some other factor? Any preference for Staylock or Norseman fittings as opposed to swaged fittings? Is our Amel cable and fittings metric or can we get compatible replacements here in the USA.

All opinions welcome and will be considered.

Regards,

Gary Silver Amel Super Maramu Hull #335 Delivered July 2001


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Re: Water Loss

Bob Fritz
 

Kent,

Do not operate your watermaker at the dock. Harbor water is usually quite dirty and frequently polluted making this a bad idea. Also, if there is any oil in the water, you can severely compromise the membranes. A watermaker should be operated only in seawater that is free of such contaminates.

As others have stated, dockwater should be filtered to remove chlorine before adding it to your tank.

Bob


Re: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss

karkauai
 

great offer, Richard.  I'll let you know in May.
Kent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Kent, We are will be back in the US around the first week in May.  We have SM 209 I've done lot of the work that you are talking about needing.  Give me a call send and email and let me know if you'd like some help. 
Richard on Challenge SM 209 in Corsica heading home in April..

--- On Sun, 3/8/09, karkauai@yahoo.com <karkauai@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: karkauai@yahoo.com <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 12:28 AM














Actually, the sensor in the fresh waterpump is acting up too.  It would run too long after water was shut off, but if you'd shut it off at the circuit breaker and then turn it back on, it wouldn't run until you ran water again.  It's still doing that even though I've corrected the watermaker problem.  That just made it harder to figure out what was going on.  I've got a new sensor and am going to replace it tomorrow.

 

Once I get the tankage/pump problem figured out, I'll start focusing on the watermaker.  Thanks for your advice about that, Bill...I haven't really studied the watermaker and it's function and maintenance at all...was going to take the boat to the Keys on tankage water, then up to the Chesapeake before I tackled the watermaker.

 

Again, thank you to all for your advice to get an Amel-Savvy cap'n for this first voyage.  I hope we can work it out so that he can join us...that was my first choice, but didn't get his name until this thread, and the other del. capn I was working with cancelled out on me when I couldn't give him a firm date for departure.  I'd still like to have someone who's familiar with the SM come along, but as I and my crew figure things out we are gaining confidence and will probably go without a professional capn if we feel comfortable after a shakedown or two.  If not, I'll cancel this go-round and hire a capn to take me south in May.  I have no intention of screwing this up royally on the first time out, and am pretty conservative by nature.  It's good for me to hear your advice because it heightens my already anxious state at a time when I'm feeling pretty proud of myself for figuring things out on my own.

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Kent

SM2 #243

"Kristy"

 



 



































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss

karkauai
 

Actually, the sensor in the fresh waterpump is acting up too.  It would run too long after water was shut off, but if you'd shut it off at the circuit breaker and then turn it back on, it wouldn't run until you ran water again.  It's still doing that even though I've corrected the watermaker problem.  That just made it harder to figure out what was going on.  I've got a new sensor and am going to replace it tomorrow.
 
Once I get the tankage/pump problem figured out, I'll start focusing on the watermaker.  Thanks for your advice about that, Bill...I haven't really studied the watermaker and it's function and maintenance at all...was going to take the boat to the Keys on tankage water, then up to the Chesapeake before I tackled the watermaker.
 
Again, thank you to all for your advice to get an Amel-Savvy cap'n for this first voyage.  I hope we can work it out so that he can join us...that was my first choice, but didn't get his name until this thread, and the other del. capn I was working with cancelled out on me when I couldn't give him a firm date for departure.  I'd still like to have someone who's familiar with the SM come along, but as I and my crew figure things out we are gaining confidence and will probably go without a professional capn if we feel comfortable after a shakedown or two.  If not, I'll cancel this go-round and hire a capn to take me south in May.  I have no intention of screwing this up royally on the first time out, and am pretty conservative by nature.  It's good for me to hear your advice because it heightens my already anxious state at a time when I'm feeling pretty proud of myself for figuring things out on my own.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Kent
SM2 #243
"Kristy"
 

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [Amel] Fresh Water Loss

eric freedman
 

Hi,

Is it possible it is leaking out of one of the keel boats?

Fair Winds,

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of karkauai
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel] Fresh Water Loss



Hi, Gang,
I'm on board at the dock finally. Trying to get things ready for the sail to
the Bahamas. It's been a challenge but am getting to where I understand most
of the systems now. My problem now is that I'm losing fresh water from the
tank at an alarming rate of 400 liters a day. There don't seem to be any
leaks at the faucets or showers and there's no water going into the bilge.
I'm at a loss. Is there anywhere this water could be accumulating that
doesn't go to the bilge?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Kent
"Kristy"
SM2 #243


Re: Fresh Water Loss

svbebe <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

Correction - I meant to say:

Joel's advice regarding an Amel knowledgeable person is very important
and if Ray Eaton is available, hire him.

Bill
s/v BeBe SM2 #387

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "svbebe" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

Kent,

Joel's advise regarding an Amel knowledgeable person is very important
and if Ray Roberts is available, hire him.


Re: Fresh Water Loss

svbebe <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

Joel's advise regarding an Amel knowledgeable person is very important
and if Ray Roberts is available, hire him. I am sure that everyone on
this forum would agree that it will be a very expensive learning
experience if you opt for trial and error rather than hiring experience.
I have made some costly mistakes.

Glad you found the problem with your missing water before you started
your passage.

You may have another problem. I assume from what you posted that you
are filling your tank with dock water. Unless you are using a carbon
filter to block chlorine, the "open" flush valve has flushed the water
maker membranes with chlorine which will damage the membranes. I rarely
take dock water but I have chlorine test equipment (get a pool store)
and a carbon filter that I put between two garden type hoses to fill the
tank. A good carbon filter will block most if not all of the chlorine.

Before you leave I think you should determine if any chlorine has passed
through the membranes. If there is chlorine in the dock water and/or
your fresh water tank, then the answer is YES. If YES, I can think of
several possible remedies and I believe that these may help you. If
anyone out there sees any errors or omissions in the following advice,
please chime in so that Kent can hear you...

BEST
Drain the water tank by running the water through the faucets to the
bilge sump which will pump it overboard. Then add water which has been
filtered through a carbon filter (available at most chandlers). Now
flush the watermaker with tank water for 15 minutes by opening the
flushing valve (I am assuming you have a flushing valve, if not follow
the Dessalator instructions for a fresh water flush). You will need to
eventually start and test the watermaker and this is probably best done
before you leave the dock.

Also, it is imperative that you run the watermaker and test the product
water before you leave the dock if you intend to rely on the fresh water
tank and/or watermaker for fresh water during a passage. You could have
been in the middle of your passage when you realized the flush valve was
open and you had no water and no way to make water.

<<<<<<<OR>>>>>>>>>>>

SECOND BEST
While running the generator, turn on the watermaker and let it run
without turning the pressure knob. This will rinse the membranes with
salt water. Remember not to flush the watermaker with fresh water until
you have replaced the chlorinated water in the tank.

<<<<<<<<<<<OR>>>>>>>>>>>

THIRD BEST
Run the watermaker producing fresh water for at least an hour, but do
this only if you have a method of testing the TDS of the water that is
produced. It is possible that the watermaker will produce water with
too high salinity because it has not been run in some time. A handheld
TDS meter is available for about $30. Remember you still cannot not to
flush the watermaker with fresh water until you have replaced the
chlorinated water in the tank.

<<<<<<<<<<<OR>>>>>>>>>>>

FOURTH BEST
Sterilize the watermaker following Dessalator procedures careful not to
use more than the specified amount of sterilization chemical. Remember
not to flush the watermaker with fresh water until you have replaced the
chlorinated water in the tank.

Best,

Bill
s/v BeBe SM2 #387


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "karkauai" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Thanks, everyone. Gary, I figured it out and it was the watermaker as
you suggested. I was going to make this trip without the watermaker and
hadn't really looked seriously at it's operation or how it's setup.
--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "karkauai" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Thanks, everyone. Gary, I figured it out and it was the watermaker as
you suggested. I was going to make this trip without the watermaker and
hadn't really looked seriously at it's operation or how it's setup. I
powered up the computer to let y'all know what it was and there you were
with the answer.
Joel, et al, I may yet do that, but so far we've figured things out
without too much difficulty and the weather looks like it'll be pretty
good for the trip south. After we do a shake down or two we'll make the
decision whether to go it alone or hire someone like Ray. I know it
would be great to have some help like that but when I asked about
suggestions for captains I had no answers that led anywhere. The couple
of owners who said they might be able to help couldn't make it. After
the shakedown(s) we'll see how we feel about it. If everything doesn't
seem right we'll just wait until Ray or Bob or another owner can make
the trip.
Thanks again,
Kent
SM2 #243
"Kristy"


Re: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss

John and Anne Hollamby <annejohn@...>
 

Hello Kent,
So it was that the watermaker was being flushed 24 hours a day. Funny that you did not mention or was it notice, that the pump was running all the time. Joels advice makes great sense to me, there are some pretty basic things that one needs to be aware of before tthings turn nasty at sea.

Take care,and best wishes, John SM319

-- Original Message -----
From: karkauai
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:02 PM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Amel] Re: Fresh Water Loss


Thanks, everyone. Gary, I figured it out and it was the watermaker as you suggested. I was going to make this trip without the watermaker and hadn't really looked seriously at it's operation or how it's setup. I powered up the computer to let y'all know what it was and there you were with the answer.
Joel, et al, I may yet do that, but so far we've figured things out without too much difficulty and the weather looks like it'll be pretty good for the trip south. After we do a shake down or two we'll make the decision whether to go it alone or hire someone like Ray. I know it would be great to have some help like that but when I asked about suggestions for captains I had no answers that led anywhere. The couple of owners who said they might be able to help couldn't make it. After the shakedown(s) we'll see how we feel about it. If everything doesn't seem right we'll just wait until Ray or Bob or another owner can make the trip.
Thanks again,
Kent
SM2 #243
"Kristy"





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Re: Fresh Water Loss

karkauai
 

Thanks, everyone. Gary, I figured it out and it was the watermaker as you suggested. I was going to make this trip without the watermaker and hadn't really looked seriously at it's operation or how it's setup. I powered up the computer to let y'all know what it was and there you were with the answer.
Joel, et al, I may yet do that, but so far we've figured things out without too much difficulty and the weather looks like it'll be pretty good for the trip south. After we do a shake down or two we'll make the decision whether to go it alone or hire someone like Ray. I know it would be great to have some help like that but when I asked about suggestions for captains I had no answers that led anywhere. The couple of owners who said they might be able to help couldn't make it. After the shakedown(s) we'll see how we feel about it. If everything doesn't seem right we'll just wait until Ray or Bob or another owner can make the trip.
Thanks again,
Kent
SM2 #243
"Kristy"


Re: Fresh Water Loss

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Kent:

I see that Joel posted an answer 2 minutes before I did. I can echo Joel's advice. When we
bought our boat in France we had the advantage of Amel's excellent week long owners
school, then I hired an Amel recommended captain to sail with us for two weeks from
LaRocehlle to the Cannary Islands, and now after owning the boat for 8 years I feel that
I am getting a good handle on its systems and maintenance issues. Ray Eaton is a great
guy and as Joel says fair in his prices. What you learn from him would probably pay for
itself in mistakes avoided. Ray did the caretaking on my boat for a season after we
owned Liahona for three years and I learned a lot from him about system maintenance
even at that date.

A couple of more thoughts; is there any evidence of sea water intrusion into your fresh water system?
Get a hand held DTS (total dissolved solids) or EC (electrical conductivity) meter,(
off the internet for about $25.00) , and check the salinity of your fresh water
just to see. EC should be below 500 for dessalinated water or 750 for dock water.

Lastly, open the tank (write if you aren't sure how) and visually inspect to make
sure you are actually loosing water. It's always possible this is a measurement
fault and you aren't really loosing water at all.

Again, good luck

Gary

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "karkauai" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi, Gang,
I'm on board at the dock finally. Trying to get things ready for the sail to the Bahamas. It's been a challenge but am getting to where I understand most of the systems now. My problem now is that I'm losing fresh water from the tank at an alarming rate of 400 liters a day. There don't seem to be any leaks at the faucets or showers and there's no water going into the bilge. I'm at a loss. Is there anywhere this water could be accumulating that doesn't go to the bilge?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Kent
"Kristy"
SM2 #243


Re: Fresh Water Loss

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Kent:
Does your Super Maramu have a watermaker?, or was it at one time fitted with a water
maker? The reason I ask is, on my watermaker (SM hull # 335) there is fitted a water
maker fresh water flush valve. In the flush position it will flush the membranes with
fresh water. Is it possible that your flush valve (if you have one) is partially open or
damaged and allowing fresh water to be pumped overboard via the membranes?

Just a thought. 400 l/day is quite a bit of water and I would think that you would see
it coming out the through hull if it was leaking. The thru hull for the water maker
flush/sea water for my water maker is just in front of the engine exhausts on the port side
about 1/3rd along the water line.

Is your fresh water pump cycling? Another thought, I have plumbed my anchor wash down
pump to use fresh water, but of course it uses the anchor washdown pump. Any chance
this might be an issue????? Lastly, I know that some folks have plumbed their heads to use
fresh water rather than sea water, if that is the case you might see increased and
unaccounted for usage of fresh water. Check the sea water manifold in the engine room
to see if the head feed pumps are still plumbed to sea water.

Good luck in trouble shooting.

Gary Silver s/v Liahona SM 2000 Hull # 335

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "karkauai" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi, Gang,
I'm on board at the dock finally. Trying to get things ready for the sail to the Bahamas. It's been a challenge but am getting to where I understand most of the systems now. My problem now is that I'm losing fresh water from the tank at an alarming rate of 400 liters a day. There don't seem to be any leaks at the faucets or showers and there's no water going into the bilge. I'm at a loss. Is there anywhere this water could be accumulating that doesn't go to the bilge?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Kent
"Kristy"
SM2 #243


Re: [Amel] Fresh Water Loss

amelforme
 

Kent, I am going to beg you to get someone with Amel ownership
experience to get you off to a fair start. Your boat has been sitting
for a long time, I am sure there are deferred maintenance issues, and
you dont need a cluster of challenges all at once with systems you
dont have complete familiarity with in the middle of the oil platform
infested Gulf at night in a squall I am heaping it on pretty heavy
but I can see the formation of a black cloud over your maiden voyage
that could cure you of cruising, or worse. If you cant get help from
an Amel owner, think seriously of contacting Ray Eaton. Ray is our
Amel trained and recommended technical/repair guy and Ray does a lot
on the instruction on the three day course I give to all Amel clients
that are new to the boats they buy from us. Fir the record, I do not
make any $$$ from Rays activities, and he makes none from mine. We
are good friends and I trust him 100% to be fair and square in all his
dealings with Amel folks. He isnt cheap but he is very good which is
the way things usually are if one is careful. You can reach Ray on 954
593 1011 here in Fort Lauderdale.

To address your immediate concerns, the bilge areas throughout the
entire interior accommodations area should always be absolutely bone
dry. Any water in these areas is cause for concern and immediate
rectification. The only bilge that should contain water is the
actual bilge sump which is in the engine room just in front of the
Amel Drive system. That is the only place water should accumulate. It
is served by an electrical pump that has a bobber type switch in a
grey PVC tube as well as a manual pump that is located, on your year
SM53, in/on the helm chair.

I would suggest you turn off the pressure pump for the water system at
the 24 volt panel. Wait and see if you still lose fresh water. If you
do, call a priest to have the boat exorcised or call me and Ill give
you some bad news.

I trust that you are measuring the loss of water at the bobber float
at the companionway?

Any modifications to the water system like an additional outside
shower/water spigot?

Pretty hard to troubleshoot the problem without having a good,
complete look at your boat.

Get someone that knows Amel boats stone cold to give you a gentle
point in the right direction. If you must pay for it, it will be the
best money you will spend and I am sure of that.

Be careful and good luck.



All the best,

Joel F. Potter



Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

401 East Las Olas Boulevard, #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301

Phone: (954) 462-5869 Fax: (954) 462-3923




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