Date   

Re: Waterleak in the depthsounder compartment

asm283 <no_reply@...>
 

Hello

Dimitris

The adjustment to the bow thruster is quite simple. Observe the unit
going up and down and you will notice that there is a triangle shaped
piece of metal riding up and down a metal rod. This triangle shaped
probe pushes the cut off switch of the bow thruster. By using an
allen wrench and making minute adjustments you can get a good seal on
the unit.

Good Luck

Vito

Wanderer ASM # 283

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "edmund_steele"
<edmundsteele@e...> wrote:

Hi Dimitris,
I had the same problem with SM#331. Under passage to Isla Mujeres
with contrary winds and current, I was forced to motor-sail into a
short steep sea for several days. I was horrified to find 6 inches
of salt water in the floor space adjacent to the forward head. I
too
tracked this down to the bow-thruster seals. The bowthruster
retaining pin was in place but each time the bow pitched down, a
small quantity of water would squirt past the upper seal. I
replaced
the upper seals (the original seals looked fine) while at anchor in
Mexico but it did not solve the problem. I found it was still
necessary to bail the water daily from the floor space into the
shower sump when under passage. When I arrived in Raiatea in French
Polynesia, I had "DoodleBug" hauled and while on the hard,
the lower seals were replaced. The technician told me that the seal
design only works when the lower seals are compressed. He adjusted
the
position of the drive unit upwards to compress the newly installed
lower seals. The bowthruster "door" no longer fits flush in
the hull
as before – it is indented by maybe 3/16ths. inch but the rate of
leakage has dropped dramatically. The bowthruster will still leak
slightly as the bow pitches, when for example, we are sailing close-
hauled into rough seas but it is now sponge work instead of bailing
bucket work. As you pointed out, it is a really good idea to check
floor spaces on a long passage. Hope this info helps.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Krassopoulos Dimitris
<dkra@p...> wrote:

Dear All,

I am very happy with my SM but you have to be prepared for a
problem I faced
with the bowthruster.

I found out sea water ( and it was sea water) in the compartment
between the
forward cabin out side of the forward bathroom. When I was
sailing
to
windward I noticed more and more water. I tried to find out from
where the
water was coming. I thought that the water was coming in from the
speed
meter ( I have the Raymarine instruments) . When sailing to
windward with
high seas I always put the safety pin in the bowthruster but
there
was still
water. So after trying to find out from where the water was
coming
when I
was sailing with a friend I opened the bowthruster leather
coverage and the
wood floors to find out . As there were big waves I noticed that
with every
wave water was coming in the boat from the bowthruster flange,
even with the
safety pin there was water coming in. I was terryfied but you
always feel
better when you locate the problem at least you know the weak
point. As the
boat is now out of the water I removed the bowthruster in order
to
change
the oil and found out with surprise that under the sponge flanch
in the boat
there is also a plastic ring with metal the same as in the
propeller to
prevent the water to come in the boat this ring is held in place
with two
small wooden screws. This plastic ring was dry and propably
damaged and that
was the reason that the water was coming in the boat. I think
that
all Amel
owners have to take a note on that and change this ring whenever
they find
water in the forward part of the boat. I plan to install a small
bilge pump
in the depthsounder compartment in case I have again the problem.
I could
not find any description of this in the manual so I believe that
you should
take care of that.

Also be aware as it can become dangerous in an long ocean
crossing.

Best Regards

Dimitris
SM Alma Libre
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Shepherd [mailto:g4ljf@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak


Re: Waterleak in the depthsounder compartment

edmund_steele
 

Hi Dimitris,
I had the same problem with SM#331. Under passage to Isla Mujeres
with contrary winds and current, I was forced to motor-sail into a
short steep sea for several days. I was horrified to find 6 inches
of salt water in the floor space adjacent to the forward head. I too
tracked this down to the bow-thruster seals. The bowthruster
retaining pin was in place but each time the bow pitched down, a
small quantity of water would squirt past the upper seal. I replaced
the upper seals (the original seals looked fine) while at anchor in
Mexico but it did not solve the problem. I found it was still
necessary to bail the water daily from the floor space into the
shower sump when under passage. When I arrived in Raiatea in French
Polynesia, I had "DoodleBug" hauled and while on the hard,
the lower seals were replaced. The technician told me that the seal
design only works when the lower seals are compressed. He adjusted
the
position of the drive unit upwards to compress the newly installed
lower seals. The bowthruster "door" no longer fits flush in
the hull
as before – it is indented by maybe 3/16ths. inch but the rate of
leakage has dropped dramatically. The bowthruster will still leak
slightly as the bow pitches, when for example, we are sailing close-
hauled into rough seas but it is now sponge work instead of bailing
bucket work. As you pointed out, it is a really good idea to check
floor spaces on a long passage. Hope this info helps.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Krassopoulos Dimitris
<dkra@p...> wrote:

Dear All,

I am very happy with my SM but you have to be prepared for a
problem I faced
with the bowthruster.

I found out sea water ( and it was sea water) in the compartment
between the
forward cabin out side of the forward bathroom. When I was sailing
to
windward I noticed more and more water. I tried to find out from
where the
water was coming. I thought that the water was coming in from the
speed
meter ( I have the Raymarine instruments) . When sailing to
windward with
high seas I always put the safety pin in the bowthruster but there
was still
water. So after trying to find out from where the water was coming
when I
was sailing with a friend I opened the bowthruster leather
coverage and the
wood floors to find out . As there were big waves I noticed that
with every
wave water was coming in the boat from the bowthruster flange,
even with the
safety pin there was water coming in. I was terryfied but you
always feel
better when you locate the problem at least you know the weak
point. As the
boat is now out of the water I removed the bowthruster in order to
change
the oil and found out with surprise that under the sponge flanch
in the boat
there is also a plastic ring with metal the same as in the
propeller to
prevent the water to come in the boat this ring is held in place
with two
small wooden screws. This plastic ring was dry and propably
damaged and that
was the reason that the water was coming in the boat. I think that
all Amel
owners have to take a note on that and change this ring whenever
they find
water in the forward part of the boat. I plan to install a small
bilge pump
in the depthsounder compartment in case I have again the problem.
I could
not find any description of this in the manual so I believe that
you should
take care of that.

Also be aware as it can become dangerous in an long ocean
crossing.

Best Regards

Dimitris
SM Alma Libre
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Shepherd [mailto:g4ljf@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak


Waterleak in the depthsounder compartment

Krassopoulos Dimitris <dkra@...>
 

Dear All,

I am very happy with my SM but you have to be prepared for a problem I faced
with the bowthruster.

I found out sea water ( and it was sea water) in the compartment between the
forward cabin out side of the forward bathroom. When I was sailing to
windward I noticed more and more water. I tried to find out from where the
water was coming. I thought that the water was coming in from the speed
meter ( I have the Raymarine instruments) . When sailing to windward with
high seas I always put the safety pin in the bowthruster but there was still
water. So after trying to find out from where the water was coming when I
was sailing with a friend I opened the bowthruster leather coverage and the
wood floors to find out . As there were big waves I noticed that with every
wave water was coming in the boat from the bowthruster flange, even with the
safety pin there was water coming in. I was terryfied but you always feel
better when you locate the problem at least you know the weak point. As the
boat is now out of the water I removed the bowthruster in order to change
the oil and found out with surprise that under the sponge flanch in the boat
there is also a plastic ring with metal the same as in the propeller to
prevent the water to come in the boat this ring is held in place with two
small wooden screws. This plastic ring was dry and propably damaged and that
was the reason that the water was coming in the boat. I think that all Amel
owners have to take a note on that and change this ring whenever they find
water in the forward part of the boat. I plan to install a small bilge pump
in the depthsounder compartment in case I have again the problem. I could
not find any description of this in the manual so I believe that you should
take care of that.

Also be aware as it can become dangerous in an long ocean crossing.

Best Regards

Dimitris
SM Alma Libre

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Shepherd [mailto:g4ljf@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak


Hi Rudy,

It is also possible that if you have a rudder post leak, it may only show
when the boat is sailing as the underside of the hull at the stern is
effectively lower in the water.

If you trace the leak to the post stuffing box, it is not necessarily true
that you will have to haul the boat and restuff the gland. Amel told me that
when a leak is first noticed from the post, then you should remove the
locking flange and tighten the large nut under the quadrant by one flat at a
time till the leak stops.

I have to say that in 33,000 nms of sailing my Amel's, I have never had a
salt water leak. What has happened from time to time is that water leaks
from the fridge drain and runs under the companion way steps to the battery
compartment whilst heeled to starboard. This is noticeable when the carpet
gets wet near the battery master switches.
Other than that, she is a wonderfully dry boat.

Good luck

Ian Shepherd SM's 299 & 414 "Crusader"

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi Rudy,

It is also possible that if you have a rudder post leak, it may only show
when the boat is sailing as the underside of the hull at the stern is
effectively lower in the water.

If you trace the leak to the post stuffing box, it is not necessarily true
that you will have to haul the boat and restuff the gland. Amel told me that
when a leak is first noticed from the post, then you should remove the
locking flange and tighten the large nut under the quadrant by one flat at a
time till the leak stops.

I have to say that in 33,000 nms of sailing my Amel's, I have never had a
salt water leak. What has happened from time to time is that water leaks
from the fridge drain and runs under the companion way steps to the battery
compartment whilst heeled to starboard. This is noticeable when the carpet
gets wet near the battery master switches.
Other than that, she is a wonderfully dry boat.

Good luck

Ian Shepherd SM's 299 & 414 "Crusader"

----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

amelforme
 

Dear Rudy,



In twenty five years of selling and servicing Amels, I have never

seen a head discharge through hull leak. There is a first time

for everything. The way I tracked down problems like this in the

past was to use talcum/body powder. Dust on a heavy layer around

where the water collects. When the leak comes, the "trails" point

at the direction from which they emanate.



To check on the rudder shaft, take up the bedding and open the

cushion supports in the aft cabin. Have another person power

the boat at full speed (8+++ knots) for a few minutes. Look at

the shaft seal. If it will ever leak it will do it then as the

stern is now very deep in the water and the pressure is the

greatest.



Good luck,

Joel F. Potter, SM # 400 "MARY BROWN"


Hi Joel,
Thanks for the advise.
I have observed the leak while in port over one week, using shower
and toilet frequently, nothing happened. So I do believe that it
should not be from that side and most probably from the rudder

shaft. Only one thing I take also in consideration is that, that I
have the feeling to have detected a small crack at the place were the
toilet outlet is going trough the shell (maybe only in the paint).
Do you think, this may could be a possibility too, as this hole is

slightly above water level when idle, but well in water when sailing
on bordside?



--- In amelyachtowners@...,

"Joel F. Potter" <jfpottercys@...> wrote:


Hi Rudy,

I have SM #400 and had a similar experience.

First, be absolutely sure it is salt water.

I say this because on my previous

Super Maramu, I had a small leak in the hose from the

shower sump. The water tasted salty but it was actually

soap residue and other funky bilge residue. If it is

salt, it can come from three places, the portholes and

hatches, the salt water feed to the toilet, or the rudder

stuffing box/shaft gland. The last is unlikely and will be

obvious by a salt water residue trail from the rudder shaft

forward. It's probably the salt water feed to the toilet.

That's what it was with my boat.

Good luck,
Joel F. Potter SM# 400, MARY BROWN


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

r.zurkirchen
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Joel F. Potter"
<jfpottercys@a...> wrote:
Hi Rudy,



I have SM #400 and had a similar experience. First, be absolutely
sure it
is salt water. I say this because on my previous Super Maramu, I
had a
small leak in the hose from the shower sump. The water tasted
salty but it
was actually soap residue and other funky bilge residue. If it is
salt, it
can come from three places, the portholes and hatches, the salt
water feed
to the toilet, or the rudder stuffing box/shaft gland. The last is
unlikely
and will be obvious by a salt water residue trail from the rudder
shaft
forward. It's probably the salt water feed to the toilet. That's
what it
was with my boat.



Good luck,



Joel F. Potter SM# 400, MARY BROWN





Hi Joel,
Thanks for the advise.
I have observed the leak while in port over one week, using shower
and toilet frequently, nothing happend. So I do believe that it
should not be from that side and moste probably from the rudder
shaft. Only one thing I take also in consideration is that, that I
have the feeling to have detected a small crack at the place were the
toiletoutlet is going trough the shell ( maybe only in the paint ).
Do you think, this may could be a possibility too, as this hole is
slightly above waterlevel when idel, but well in water when sailing
on bordside ?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

amelforme
 

Hi Rudy,



I have SM #400 and had a similar experience. First, be absolutely sure it
is salt water. I say this because on my previous Super Maramu, I had a
small leak in the hose from the shower sump. The water tasted salty but it
was actually soap residue and other funky bilge residue. If it is salt, it
can come from three places, the portholes and hatches, the salt water feed
to the toilet, or the rudder stuffing box/shaft gland. The last is unlikely
and will be obvious by a salt water residue trail from the rudder shaft
forward. It's probably the salt water feed to the toilet. That's what it
was with my boat.



Good luck,



Joel F. Potter SM# 400, MARY BROWN


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

svmalaika@...
 

I haven't experienced a rudder post leak on either of my AMELS (16 yrs a
Maramu and now 4 years with a Super Maramu), but I have heard it can happen. The
rudder bearing is like a sterngland on the prop shaft. You should be able to
see if it is leaking when you sail. If it is you should repack it at your next
haulout.
Charlie
S/V MALAIKA II
Barcelona, SPAIN


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

r.zurkirchen
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., svmalaika@a... wrote:
I believe the only place that salt water could enter the boat and
settle aft
of the aft waterproof bulkhead is through the rudder post assembly.
I suggest
that you check that area while sailing. You should also carefully
confirm that
the water is actually salty seawater and not just fresh water that
has
sloshed around the bilge. It is often easy to confuse one for the
other.

Charlie
S/V MALAIKA II

Thank you Charlie for your advise, it is definitly salt water, I
have checked and even tastet it ( with closed eyes).
Do you think it could enter, where the rudder post is going trough
the shell?



Waterleak

r.zurkirchen
 

Hi All,
on my SM #407 I have recognized during last season a waterleak.
In the box under the floor in front of the aft bathroom, ( between
the aft cabin door and the bathroomdoor and the wardrobe is a a
cover under the carpet ). The water only fills up when I am sailing.
When I am in the port or on anchor, no water comes in. Amel
recomendet to check if it comes from the toilet or from the shower.
All this I have checked without finding the cause. The water is
definitly salty. The leak make when sailing about 1-1.5 liter in 24
hours.
Is anyone, who had a similar experiance and knows how to repair?

For any help I am thankfull, because Amel could not help me further
in this respect.
Rudy of SAMANTHA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Waterleak

svmalaika@...
 

I believe the only place that salt water could enter the boat and settle aft
of the aft waterproof bulkhead is through the rudder post assembly. I suggest
that you check that area while sailing. You should also carefully confirm that
the water is actually salty seawater and not just fresh water that has
sloshed around the bilge. It is often easy to confuse one for the other.

Charlie
S/V MALAIKA II


Re: Jean Yves Selo

amelforme
 

Dear fellow Amel owners.

Please be advised that Jean Yves Selo has earned his well deserved
retirement from Chantiers Amel. He left the company as of January 1, 2005
and we all wish him well and hope his "forever vacation" is as pleasant as
possible.

The new head of the Après Vende/After Sales Service is Olivier Beaute. Many
of you know Olivier from you week long training upon taking delivery of your
new Amel. Oliver is a very capable and knowledgeable young man. We shall
all enjoy working with him. To contact him by email use amel@... and
direct your inquiry to Olivier Beaute/Après Vende.

Best regards,
Joel F. Potter
SM #400, MARY BROWN"


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Circuit Breaker

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi Paul,

I purchased a range of spare CB's from Amel when I bought my SM. For sure
they will have what you want. Have you tried contacting Yves Selo Amel's
after sales and part manager? (amel@...).

Good Luck

Ian Shepherd SM 414 'Crusader'

-------Original Message-------

From: fruehaufp
Date: 02/07/05 16:45:33
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Circuit Breaker


Hello all,

I purchased a 1998 Amel Super Maramu last year. I am upgrading the
battery charger and need a 25 amp breaker. I would like to add the
same type of breaker that is currently on the boat. I have been
unable to find a replacement and I thought someone might be able to
help me identify the manufacturer. The existing breakers
have "diruptor CE made in France ref 72222/104" on the side. On
the end the breakers have what appears to be "E P". The "E" looks
more like a lower case epsilon. On the front the breakers have a
large green on switch and small red off switch. Does anyone know
where I can get this type of breaker? I tried Wards Marine in
Florida, but they did not recognize the brand. I also did an
internet search and did not find anything.

Best regards,

Paul Fruehauf "Faraway Eyes" SM 215







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Circuit Breaker

fruehaufp <fruehaufps@...>
 

Hello all,

I purchased a 1998 Amel Super Maramu last year. I am upgrading the
battery charger and need a 25 amp breaker. I would like to add the
same type of breaker that is currently on the boat. I have been
unable to find a replacement and I thought someone might be able to
help me identify the manufacturer. The existing breakers
have "diruptor CE – made in France – ref 72222/104" on the side. On
the end the breakers have what appears to be "E P". The "E" looks
more like a lower case epsilon. On the front the breakers have a
large green on switch and small red off switch. Does anyone know
where I can get this type of breaker? I tried Wards Marine in
Florida, but they did not recognize the brand. I also did an
internet search and did not find anything.

Best regards,

Paul Fruehauf – "Faraway Eyes" – SM 215


Water Pump Impeller Puller for Yanmar & Onan

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

1 Feb 2005

I previously mentioned on this forum that I had fabricated a tool to
make the job of pulling out the water pump impeller easier. I have
uploaded a picture of the device to the photos section. It is
relatively easy to fabricate. I can make these for $35 US and would
be willing to have a bunch made up if anyone is interested. Or feel
fee to use the concept and make your own. I used stainless steel
for the "jaws" but the basic locking pliers are plated mild steel
and can rust so precautions need to be taken to prevent that. After
each use I rinse mine in fresh water and treat it with Boeshield.
The great thing about this tool is that it does not damage the
impeller in any way nor does it mar the pump housing. Since it
locks in place on the hub of the impeller it won't slip off and skin
your knuckles (after having done that a few times I was so mad I
decided to build this tool).

If interested email me at AgCEagle@...

Price $35.00 US plus shipping.

Regards, Gary Silver SM #335


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner

Roy A. Duddy, Esq. <rduddy.duddylawoffices@...>
 

Joe,

I want to thank you for the thought and attention that you put into your
posting. I appreciate it very much. Fortunately, I haven't had to attack
that problem yet. But I will keep your post as a reference.

Roy Duddy
Sharki #123
Unwineding
Kittery Point, Maine

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel F. Potter [mailto:jfpottercys@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner


Fellow Amel yacht owners,



In response to Mr. Parry's request, I submit the following:



Having sold hundreds of second hand Amel's over the past 25 years, I have
had to face the restoration of the fallen vinyl in Amel boats many times.
In preparing them for the market, I have personally participated in the
restoration process on many boats, and supervised the entire job more
times
that I can recall. We have made all the mistakes so the following is solid
and reliable, learned in the school of hard experience.



All Amel's, every one, built prior to 1993 model has vinyl that will
eventually fall down. Why? The vinyl had a polyurethane foam backing
that
gave a cushioning effect and also "held the glue" better than a smooth
backing. Over the years, the foam gets thermally cycled each day as the
sun
goes up and down, becomes brittle and dry, and then turns to polyurethane
dust. It happens first in areas of highest heat transfer and is
exacerbated
by washing/cleaning the vinyl as this compresses the foam. Boats built
after 1993 use an organic cotton (felt) backing and, so far, these boats
have had no vinyl failures and probably will not for the foreseeable
future.



To repair the fallen vinyl is pretty simple, yet time consuming and a
genuine threat to your health. Really. Additionally, if you attempt to
do
this with your spouse, be forewarned, if you can't hang wall paper
together
without undo friction, your relationship will be seriously tested by the
stress of restoring the vinyl correctly.



First, put your cutting tools away. Far away. Get out a screw driver
instead. Unscrew all molding and trim pieces of wood wherever you find it
on the vinyl or around the edges of the vinyl. You will then better
understand the processes to follow next.



The most important thing at this moment is to buy whoever will be involved
in the process from this point forward a very good mask respirator that
filters the smallest of particulate matter. Vapor or solvent removal is
not
important. Particulate matter is. Why? Because when you take the
presently installed vinyl down prior to re-hanging it all the foam backing
that has disintegrated will fill the air and, eventually, find its way
into
every single nook and cranny inside the boat. These particles seem to
have
a negative charge and attach themselves tenaciously to all they touch. It
is advisable to completely remove everything from all storage areas in
each
compartment as you proceed with the repair. It is absolutely essential
that
you wear your respirator and not breathe ANY of this disintegrated foam.
You will get very, very ill if you do with severe respiratory distress.
The
long term effects of inhaling polyurethane by-products are truly grim.
Please, obtain the best respirators you can find and wear them
conscientiously. Those 3-m throw away nose/mouth shields will NOT do the
job. Ask me how I know this.



With all the trim removed, you will discover how you can easily remove the
vinyl from the surfaces upon which it is mounted. Gently pull the vinyl
away from the surface. Before you cut anything, think twice. Very little
cutting is required and it varies from model to model. Just really think
twice and cut once.



After the vinyl is down, or hanging from its edges, take a stiff brush and
remove all remnants of the foam backing from the vinyl and the surface it
was on. The keyword here is "all". You will never actually get it all,
but
get as much as you can. Don't pull the vinyl out of the areas where it is
permanently secured behind woodwork such as the wood mounted on the cabin
vertical areas where the ports are.



Now the hard part. You can reattach the originally installed vinyl and it
will look about 90% as good as it did when the boat was new. The success
of
your work will depend on your planning, your skills, and your choice of
material.



DO NOT USE "MAGIC" GLUE or CONTACT CEMENT. Instead, use vinyl wallpaper
cement that is approved for use in high humidity environments (bath
rooms/showers). You will find this at any good household wallpaper and/or
paint store. I have found that the only ones that work well also require
a
primmer/sealer to be installed before the glue/paste. These adhesives,
unlike contact cement or magic glues, will have a reasonable "open" period
before they bond. This allows you to work out the wrinkles and get good
adhesion in the corners. Contact cement sets on contact. It also has
solvents which will discolor and sometimes melt and destroy the vinyl.
Try
all adhesive products on a discreet area to test them before you do an
actual repair.



If you work carefully and thoughtfully, you will be happy with your
results.
Remember to use plenty of primer, you almost can not use too much. It's
best to start inside the forward hanging locker first to get the hang (get
it?) of the process. If you don't do a perfect job in the hanging locker,
learn from your mistakes before proceeding to more visible repairs. Don't
forget your respirator or I'll get your boat for sale sooner than you
wish.
Be careful.



There are many ways to skin a cat, this is just one. You can also use
wooden battens on a fore to aft bias which is easier but, generally not as
attractive.



You can also remove the vinyl and replace it, or put in removable ceiling
panels. However, unless your handy skills approach that of a true
craftsman, these repairs are best left to the pros.



Work slowly at first, consider carefully your every move, use the best
materials you can find, and wear your respirator. You'll be pleased with
the results.



Good luck.



Joel F. Potter, SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"















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headliner instructions

bobparry1947 <bob@...>
 

Dear Joel,

Many thanks for taking the time to give us such comprehensive
directions for repairung the headliner. Sounds like an onerous task.
We don't recall seeing any paint 'n' paper shops in Tunisia but I dare
say they are around somewhere. We have already spent hours tramping
the streets of the commercial part of Tunis looking for 24 v halogen
bulbs for our tricolour and anchor light and a new circuit breaker
(success for the first item but not the second),among other things.
Also, it is interesting making ourselves understood as our Arabic is
non-existent and the French we learnt at school over 40 years ago
leaves us somewhat short but people are really helpful.

Many thanks once again,
Bob and Ann Parry
SM#33 Nowornot


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] headliner

amelforme
 

Fellow Amel yacht owners,



In response to Mr. Parry's request, I submit the following:



Having sold hundreds of second hand Amel's over the past 25 years, I have
had to face the restoration of the fallen vinyl in Amel boats many times.
In preparing them for the market, I have personally participated in the
restoration process on many boats, and supervised the entire job more times
that I can recall. We have made all the mistakes so the following is solid
and reliable, learned in the school of hard experience.



All Amel's, every one, built prior to 1993 model has vinyl that will
eventually fall down. Why? The vinyl had a polyurethane foam backing that
gave a cushioning effect and also "held the glue" better than a smooth
backing. Over the years, the foam gets thermally cycled each day as the sun
goes up and down, becomes brittle and dry, and then turns to polyurethane
dust. It happens first in areas of highest heat transfer and is exacerbated
by washing/cleaning the vinyl as this compresses the foam. Boats built
after 1993 use an organic cotton (felt) backing and, so far, these boats
have had no vinyl failures and probably will not for the foreseeable future.



To repair the fallen vinyl is pretty simple, yet time consuming and a
genuine threat to your health. Really. Additionally, if you attempt to do
this with your spouse, be forewarned, if you can't hang wall paper together
without undo friction, your relationship will be seriously tested by the
stress of restoring the vinyl correctly.



First, put your cutting tools away. Far away. Get out a screw driver
instead. Unscrew all molding and trim pieces of wood wherever you find it
on the vinyl or around the edges of the vinyl. You will then better
understand the processes to follow next.



The most important thing at this moment is to buy whoever will be involved
in the process from this point forward a very good mask respirator that
filters the smallest of particulate matter. Vapor or solvent removal is not
important. Particulate matter is. Why? Because when you take the
presently installed vinyl down prior to re-hanging it all the foam backing
that has disintegrated will fill the air and, eventually, find its way into
every single nook and cranny inside the boat. These particles seem to have
a negative charge and attach themselves tenaciously to all they touch. It
is advisable to completely remove everything from all storage areas in each
compartment as you proceed with the repair. It is absolutely essential that
you wear your respirator and not breathe ANY of this disintegrated foam.
You will get very, very ill if you do with severe respiratory distress. The
long term effects of inhaling polyurethane by-products are truly grim.
Please, obtain the best respirators you can find and wear them
conscientiously. Those 3-m throw away nose/mouth shields will NOT do the
job. Ask me how I know this.



With all the trim removed, you will discover how you can easily remove the
vinyl from the surfaces upon which it is mounted. Gently pull the vinyl
away from the surface. Before you cut anything, think twice. Very little
cutting is required and it varies from model to model. Just really think
twice and cut once.



After the vinyl is down, or hanging from its edges, take a stiff brush and
remove all remnants of the foam backing from the vinyl and the surface it
was on. The keyword here is "all". You will never actually get it all, but
get as much as you can. Don't pull the vinyl out of the areas where it is
permanently secured behind woodwork such as the wood mounted on the cabin
vertical areas where the ports are.



Now the hard part. You can reattach the originally installed vinyl and it
will look about 90% as good as it did when the boat was new. The success of
your work will depend on your planning, your skills, and your choice of
material.



DO NOT USE "MAGIC" GLUE or CONTACT CEMENT. Instead, use vinyl wallpaper
cement that is approved for use in high humidity environments (bath
rooms/showers). You will find this at any good household wallpaper and/or
paint store. I have found that the only ones that work well also require a
primmer/sealer to be installed before the glue/paste. These adhesives,
unlike contact cement or magic glues, will have a reasonable "open" period
before they bond. This allows you to work out the wrinkles and get good
adhesion in the corners. Contact cement sets on contact. It also has
solvents which will discolor and sometimes melt and destroy the vinyl. Try
all adhesive products on a discreet area to test them before you do an
actual repair.



If you work carefully and thoughtfully, you will be happy with your results.
Remember to use plenty of primer, you almost can not use too much. It's
best to start inside the forward hanging locker first to get the hang (get
it?) of the process. If you don't do a perfect job in the hanging locker,
learn from your mistakes before proceeding to more visible repairs. Don't
forget your respirator or I'll get your boat for sale sooner than you wish.
Be careful.



There are many ways to skin a cat, this is just one. You can also use
wooden battens on a fore to aft bias which is easier but, generally not as
attractive.



You can also remove the vinyl and replace it, or put in removable ceiling
panels. However, unless your handy skills approach that of a true
craftsman, these repairs are best left to the pros.



Work slowly at first, consider carefully your every move, use the best
materials you can find, and wear your respirator. You'll be pleased with
the results.



Good luck.



Joel F. Potter, SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"


headliner

bobparry1947 <bob@...>
 

Hello. This is our first message since we bought our boat last July.
Is anybody able to recommend a place where we can have our headliner
replaced/repaired? The previous owner had it repaired using the same
vinyl but it has gradually started to detach again. We expect it to be
down around our ears when we return to the boat. Problem seems to be a
combination of glue failure and disintegration of the foam backing.
The boat is presently in Tunisia and we will probably head east to be
in Turkey next winter.
We know that the older SM's had this problem.

Bob and Ann Parry,
SM#33 Nowornot


Dishes

Krassopoulos Dimitris <dkra@...>
 

I have bought the Amel set from Amel and it is perfect. Good quality and
fits excellent in the divider tray.

Dimitris

_____

From: Roy A. Duddy, Esq. [mailto:rduddy.duddylawoffices@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info


Off Topic, but .... do any of you know where I can buy dinnerware that is
European sized to fit Amel's divider tray? I have been to West Marine and
Boat U.S. as well as a few local chandleries. They all stock larger diameter
plates and saucers than the divider holds. Thanks.

Roy Duddy
Unwineding
Sharki #123
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul [mailto:sailmanpc@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info



Hey there....in response to you question on the watermaker and
washing machine...I too like to make water while doing the wash.
Until lately I have not had a problem running the both together. In
Dec I found that my high pressure pump was leaking...Amel indicated I
would need tho have the pump rebuilt. At the same time the genset had
a hard time starting the watermaker and would kick the breaker unless
I started the watermaker with no other load. In in the Virgins
waiting for my Raymarine GPS and autopilot to be repaired so I could
sail down to Martinque to get the pump rebuilt....well today when
atempting to make water...the pump now stalls the Genset...my bet
more $$$ than just a rebuild....of course only 3 months out of
warranty. One would think the think would last for more than 200
hrs... Paul Camp SM418 Lady H WDB5667@...

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Ian Shepherd" <g4ljf@c...>
wrote:
> As promised, here is the word on Dessalator water makers. It comes
via their
> UK agent who met with Patrick, the number two at Dessalator last
weekend. I
> was hoping to forward an email from them, but to date it has not
arrived.
>
> Firstly our water makers are designed, built and installed with the
salinity
> probe functional. The diverter valve will only send the water to the
> freshwater tank after the 2 minute timer has completed it's cycle
and the
> salinity probe detects that there is a low enough salt content. The
reason
> why my short circuit test of the probe did nothing is that in order
to
> prevent erosion of salinity tester probes, the polarity in reversed
some 500
> times per second. Short circuiting does not simulate salty water. I
guess
> the only way to test it would be to cap the probe hole and dunk the
probe in
> a cup full of salt water.
>
> If at any time the salinity probe detects salt, the unit does not
shut down,
> but diverts the water overboard. The green 'water good' LED will
also change
> colour.
>
> Patrick also said that membrane perforation is very unlikely, the
more
> common problem being that the membranes clog up, causing reduced
output. It
> is possible that an O seal will fail or that a membrane end cap
might split.
> However, if this happens, the salinity probe will detect bad water
and
> immediately operate the diverter valve to send the bad water over
the side.
> The symptoms of a perforated membrane would be an increased flow
rate above
> normal and a low pressure indication.
>
> So in a nutshell, we have nothing to be concerned with. Our
Dessalator water
> makers are perfectly safe and should a membrane failure occur, they
will
> fail to a safe condition.
>
> In our conversation, one interesting point was raised. I don't know
about
> you, but when I am using the washing machine, I do try and use the
gen set
> to advantage by also running the water maker to replace the water
used.
> Unfortunately, I cannot run my 160 l/h unit at more than about 80
l/h, else
> the gen set trips. Does anyone else find this happens? Maybe I have
a slack
> circuit breaker on the Onan. It should trip at 30 amps AC.
>
> Patrick says that to run the water maker out of the green range is
not good
> practice. The reason is that the membranes are constructed by
rolling up the
> material like a roll of wall paper. In order for the membranes to
achieve a
> perfect seal, they need to be under pressure, else sea water can
work its
> way from the centre of the roll to the outside, maybe at
concentrations just
> below the salinity probe detecting unsafe water. It will be OK but
not taste
> quite so good.
>
> I hope this clears up once and for all any doubts about our
equipment, which
> I have always found to be excellent. The latest models have an
automatic
> back flush, which may be beneficial if you don't use your water
maker
> regularly. M. Wagner says that it is only necessary to back flush
if you are
> not using the system for a period of 10 days or so, but automatic
flushing
> might improve the taste and prolong the membrane life if you forget.
>
> I have an inquiry out to see if the modification to an automatic
back flush
> is feasible on our circuit boards, and at what cost. I will post
the answer.
>
> Fair Winds
>
> Ian Shepherd SM 414 'Crusader'
> ----------
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>
>
>





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