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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers
svmalaika@...
Jim,
If the two minute timer is used to delay the start of the watermaker what you describe will happen and is normal. If, however, you start the watermaker, let it run until the green light comes on and then short circuit across the two wires to the sensor (simulating conducting salt water) the solenoid should close the valve and the green light should go off. Conversely, if you short across the two sensor wires (again simulating conducting seawater) and start the watermaker the green light should never come on and the solenoid should not open the valve. Regards, Charlie
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers for dummies
Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
Hello Roy.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the later SM's don't have the water tap on the water maker control panel. It has been relocated to the high pressure pump to make draining the oil easy. A good idea. I never did find the tap on the control panel that useful, much as I would have like to use it to fill the kettle with taste free water. It s position was just too awkward. I got around this by installing a Seagull water filter with it's own tap at the sink. There is space to drill the fixing hole in the sink top just to the right of the existing tap, and once fitted, water from the keel tank tastes wonderful, even when the boat is new and the smell of the tank lining has not worn off. The filter is so fine that even Giardia bacteria are prevented from getting through should be unlucky enough to upload some from a shore supply. Today I took Crusader to sea and did a test. I ran the water maker normally then shorted the salinity sensor. Nothing happened! So it looks as if what you said below is true. The sensor may have been deactivated in the quest for easy maintenance. This I find quite extraordinary and if true, irresponsible. Why disable a 'belt and braces' system for the sake of trying to make the system appear to be trouble free? Imagine this scenario. You are on a long ocean crossing and your membranes go bad. The water maker keeps running as the salinity tester is deactivated, and in the meantime you are polluting your good, and maybe only source of drinkable water. It just not make sense to me. I just hope that my test was not done properly, but I did try it several times. Maybe the terminals needed to be shorted for a minimum period of time? Surely all Amel needed to have told it's customers is that if the unit shuts down for reasons other than over pressure or overload of the genset, check the sensor for dirty contacts. It's extremely easy to get to and a cinch to remove. Roy, if you do know how to wire the salinity tester back into the circuit board, then please let me know. I want to do this right away as I rely 100% on RO water to fill my tank. I forgot to bring the circuit diagrams back home with me. Maybe it's obvious what to do, but any help would be welcome. Finally, I am glad that I have a water testing instrument. It's the only way of being sure that your water is safe and that the membranes are in good order. Best Wishes Ian Shepherd
-------Original Message-------
From: rbenven44 Date: 12/29/04 19:34:40 To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers for dummies A few years ago, when we were in the Med, we met another Super Maramu that had discovered that the watermaker had a 2-minute delay at start- up, and an inoperative salinity sensor. The owner was told by Dessalator that Amel had requested the units be installed that way so that owners would not have to clean the salinity sensor, and so that occasional sensing errors would not shut down the system. This was part of Amel's "low-maintenance" approach. This owner then rewired the control panel to activate the sensor, and I believe that it has worked fine since then. We did not do it to our boat, as I was happy tasting the product at the control panel faucet (don't the new boats have this?) to verify proper operation. By the way, we have 875 hours on our watermaker over 8 seasons with no problems other than the leaks in the old membrane plastic end cap fittings (which Dessalator replaced with SS ones a few years back). Rather than post this owner's name on the web site, I will contact him directly and ask him to post on the web site how he rewired the unit to activate the salinity sensor. Happy New Year to all. Roy Benveniste SM Excalibur #195 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004
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Watermaker
amelforme
Hello Fellow Amel Owners.
I have sent a message to Dessalator and await their reply. To my recollection, the system has both a salinity tester and a "minimum" start timer to be sure that the start up cycle fully purges the entire system. I will report my findings as soon as I have a response, probably next week as everyone is on holiday until after Saint Sylvester/New Years. All the best, Joel F. Potter SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers
Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
Hi John,
I won't have time to do any tests for a few days, but I would guess that there might also be a time delay built into the system as well to ensure a suitable wait after the probe senses good water. This may be done for two reasons. Firstly to ensure that any bad water in the system is flushed well out before the valve switches, and secondly to give the system a more certain chance of not sending bad water into the tank should the probe sense fresh water too early due to poor conductivity through dirty probes. Maybe the way to test it is to get the watermaker running normally with the green light on, then short out the probe using a potentiometer or at least a resistor, to see if the bad water light comes on or the system shuts down. I will see what I can do, but I don't want to blow anything up! Has anyone asked Desalinator direct yet? (dessaltator@...). By the way, did you get the Hydra to read the magnetic wind direction yet? Regards to Anne. K was over here for a couple of weeks recently. Cheers Ian ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
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Watermakers
John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
Hello Charlie,
Apologies....you are quite right. So the test might be to have one person in the galley and the other in the engine room.The galley person switches the watermaker on and sees the red LED. The other person pulls a connector off the probe and at that moment there should be a clunk from the solenoid and the green LED should come on. My bet is that it will do nothing until the two minutes pass and I look forward to a report from someone with a boat in clean water to do the test. I also hope that Joel or Amel will give a full explanation of the installations so that if there is no detector circuit one can decide whether to fit one. Having seen the pics of the damaged washing machine parts on Blue Marine I would not hesitate. My installation has been faultless except last summer when the capacitors on the big electric motor burnt out. The size had been painted over but I got a quick reply from the makers, they are 2 X 30 MFD or 1 60 MFD and 250 volt of course. They are very cheap and easily fitted and should perhaps be in the spares kit for transoceanic voyages. The electrician told me that such failures are relatively common on induction start motors. Best wishes from Malta, John
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Satellite radio
john martin <symoondog@...>
Has any one installed a satellite radio in their boat yet? It seams to be the rage now, and it looks like it can work 100's of miles off shore. Its crystal clear and has no commercialls. News weather,sports and all kinds of music 24/7. Its cheap enough as you use your existing am fm radio. Its about a $100.00 for the unit and $10.00 per month. They say it will work in Puerto Rico,and the Virgins, but i don't know. Has anyone had any experience? If its satterlite, why can't it work in the Pacific?John sm248 " Moondog" _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermaker
svmalaika@...
Ian,
It seems to me that your "simple test" is the reverse of what should be done. Seawater conducts and closes the circuit. Pure water does not conduct and therefore produces an open circuit. If you remove a wire, producing an open circuit, the sensor would indicate pure water and open the valve after the two minute start up period. Wouldn't a proper test be to short circuit across the two sensor wires, indicating conducting seawater, and see if the valve closes? Charlie Cronheim S/V MALAIKA II (SM336) Barcelona, Spain
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Watermaker
John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
Happy New Year Ian,
We hope that you are enjoying your festivities. We leave Malta tomorrow for a couple of weeks in the UK,Boat Show etc. Our boat is out of the water so I cannot test the salinity monitor. However when I went to clean the probes some time ago they were clean. I did check the time between turning the machine on and the opening of the solenoid valve and it is exactly two minutes. The simple test is to remove the wire from the probe so that cannot work and then switch on the watermaker and I think you will find that the green LED comes on and the solenoid operates after 120 seconds. Please let us all know. I had an American watermaker, a PUR Power Recovery 12 volt at one time and they told me that they had been unable to find a long lasting soleniod valve as sea water killed them off sooner or later. I therefore installed a 3 way valve in the system so I could switch over manually when the green light came on the salinity monitor and I also had a T junction in the product line feeding a valve in a convenient position so that I could taste the product as a check on the monitor. All the best, John
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers
Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
Dear John & Walter,
I may be mistaken, but I am not sure that you are right about the nature of the salinity tester. On my 160 l/h unit, there is a device with two probes that is located on the output of the membranes. It consists of two probes that measure, presumably, the conductivity of the desalinated water which will be related to the salt content. This device controls the diverter valve that allows water to enter the tank when it meets the required level of freshness. This seems to use a similar principle to my Hanna water tester, two probes measuring the conductivity of the water. I do seem to remember talking to Desalinator at the Cannes boat show some time ago, and they did mention that you do need to keep these probes clean for them to work properly. Could it be that the probes on Blue Marine were contaminated and that the probe was not working properly? Season's Greeting so all. Ian Shepherd "Crusader" SM 414 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004
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Algae on propeller
tonic102004 <paebersold@...>
I am new owner of a used sm (227). I did not use it much until know.
The boat is well maintained and in very good condition, we like it very much. Nevertheless, there seems to be a problem with algae development on the propeller when the boat lays for a few weeks in the marina. Actualy the boat is in SanRemo in the Med. After a few weeks not beeing used, the engines gets up to 1700t/m instead of 2500 or more. The previous owner had evertime asked a diver to clean the propeller before navigating. Has anybody experience in solving this problem. Or is the only way diving and cleaning? Thanks Paul
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers
Walter Lundstrom <WalterL@...>
I'm under the impression that the 2 minutes wait has to with the water (with
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the water maker in the engine room)being to warm and the 2 minutes circulation would cool it down. Maybe I'm wrong... Walter Prior owner "Linna"
-----Original Message-----
From: John and Anne on Bali Hai [mailto:hollamby@...] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:09 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers Some time ago I commented on what appeared to be strange features of the watermakers fitted to Super Maramus. Our boat is fitted with a 160 ltr per hr unit and has performed perfectly over the past three seasons. The standard installation is a 60 ltr ph unit, I think. It seems that both units have one thing in common, namely that the so called salinity monitor is nonexistent. Instead it is a timer which assumes the sea water has been desalinated after two minutes and then sends the product to the water tank. This is fine so long as the machine is working properly. However if the product is not totally purified it will have a salt content which can and will have a devastating effect on equipment which is designed to only work with purified water. In other words the alloy castings used to make the washing machine and others will corrode/erode/be electrolised and fail and leak just before falling apart with dangerous and expensive consequenses. I have an Email from Yves on Blue Marine who sends me pictures of destroyed castings from his washing machine and a report,by someone who claims to be an expert in this field which has, I believe, been sent to our alter ego, namely the French version of this web site. What this report says, in French, which if I understand it right, is that Amel/Dessalaters have devised a version of the standard 60 ltr ph machine which is fundamentally flawed as it does not provide enough sea water to satisfy the desalinator and that this results in the early failure of the membranes with potentially catastrophic results. Whether this is true or not I have no idea but we need to know ! It could be that Yves on Blue Marine has,umwittingly, flushed the membranes with shore water containing chlorine which would immediately damage the membranes beyond repair. I have the bigger version because I know, from transpac experience that it is better to have a machine which will produce a lot of water quickly whilst the genset is running, or with my last boat, with a high pressure pump working the desalinator staight off the end of the main engine drive pulleys. I also know that one of the greatest gifts that one can give to Pacific Islanders on remote atolls or even in larger groups such as Fiji in times of drought, is fresh water. The failure of a watermaker on a long voyage would not be catastrophic assuming that one keeps ones tanks full. However a watermaker without an effective salinity monitor is potentially life threatening. A simple alternative would be to to have an easy way of tasting the product coupled with a manually operated valve to send the pure product to the tanks. Blue Marine clearly did not notice the failure in the purification process perhaps, because they, surprisingly to me, drink only bottled water, whereas we only drink product and would thus be aware fairly soon if the product was salty. Blue Marines installation was. I suppose, not passing pure sea water as they would, I imagine would have noticed the salinity whilst showering. Be that as it may, there is a very worrying issue here and I call upon our Guru, Joel Potter, to give us a definitive reply and advice as soon as possible. It would also be interesting to have comments from other water making folk. Happy New Year from Anne and John ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/A1TolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Watermakers
John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
Some time ago I commented on what appeared to be strange features of
the watermakers fitted to Super Maramus. Our boat is fitted with a 160 ltr per hr unit and has performed perfectly over the past three seasons. The standard installation is a 60 ltr ph unit, I think. It seems that both units have one thing in common, namely that the so called salinity monitor is nonexistent. Instead it is a timer which assumes the sea water has been desalinated after two minutes and then sends the product to the water tank. This is fine so long as the machine is working properly. However if the product is not totally purified it will have a salt content which can and will have a devastating effect on equipment which is designed to only work with purified water. In other words the alloy castings used to make the washing machine and others will corrode/erode/be electrolised and fail and leak just before falling apart with dangerous and expensive consequenses. I have an Email from Yves on Blue Marine who sends me pictures of destroyed castings from his washing machine and a report,by someone who claims to be an expert in this field which has, I believe, been sent to our alter ego, namely the French version of this web site. What this report says, in French, which if I understand it right, is that Amel/Dessalaters have devised a version of the standard 60 ltr ph machine which is fundamentally flawed as it does not provide enough sea water to satisfy the desalinator and that this results in the early failure of the membranes with potentially catastrophic results. Whether this is true or not I have no idea but we need to know ! It could be that Yves on Blue Marine has,umwittingly, flushed the membranes with shore water containing chlorine which would immediately damage the membranes beyond repair. I have the bigger version because I know, from transpac experience that it is better to have a machine which will produce a lot of water quickly whilst the genset is running, or with my last boat, with a high pressure pump working the desalinator staight off the end of the main engine drive pulleys. I also know that one of the greatest gifts that one can give to Pacific Islanders on remote atolls or even in larger groups such as Fiji in times of drought, is fresh water. The failure of a watermaker on a long voyage would not be catastrophic assuming that one keeps ones tanks full. However a watermaker without an effective salinity monitor is potentially life threatening. A simple alternative would be to to have an easy way of tasting the product coupled with a manually operated valve to send the pure product to the tanks. Blue Marine clearly did not notice the failure in the purification process perhaps, because they, surprisingly to me, drink only bottled water, whereas we only drink product and would thus be aware fairly soon if the product was salty. Blue Marines installation was. I suppose, not passing pure sea water as they would, I imagine would have noticed the salinity whilst showering. Be that as it may, there is a very worrying issue here and I call upon our Guru, Joel Potter, to give us a definitive reply and advice as soon as possible. It would also be interesting to have comments from other water making folk. Happy New Year from Anne and John
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Bowthrusters
John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
Hi Don,
Sorry,I cannot help as I have a Super Maramu with 28 volt systems. Obviously St Lucia is a problem. You could try phoning Nicholsons Yacht Charter or Joel Brierly, both in Antigua, to see if they know where there is a competent electrical shop in the Windies. Good hunting, Anne and John
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Re: Bow thrusters
mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John and Anne on Bali Hai"
<hollamby@c...> wrote: Barefoot is in St. Lucia which is a problem as far as the services available electrical repair. The electric motor when I removed it, I found that one of the cables was broken and another was two thirds gone. These cables were located at the top end of the motor. These cables were replaced and I was able to get the motor to run in a clockwise direction. The two cables that run to the bottom of the motor inside the motor housing show continuity but I able to determine their load carrying capability. One of these cables is brazed onto a lead on the stator. St. Lucia does not have the ability braze these heavy cables. Do happen to know the function of the fourth cable? Jon if you can read identification lable on the bow thruster motor would you pass the information onto me. I assume you have a 12 volt system. Thanks! Thanks for the e-mail. Have a very Merry Christmas Don Patterson
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Re: Bow thrusters
mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John and Anne on Bali Hai"
<hollamby@c...> wrote: Barefoot is in St. Lucia which is a problem as far as the services available electrical repair. The electric motor when I removed it, I found that one of the cables was broken and another was two thirds gone. These cables were located at the top end of the motor. These cables were replaced and I was able to get the motor to run in a clockwise direction. The two cables that run to the bottom of the motor inside the motor housing show continuity but I able to determine their load carrying capability. One of these cables is brazed onto a lead on the stator. St. Lucia does not have the ability braze these heavy cables. Do happen to know the function of the fourth cable? Jon if you can read identification lable on the bow thruster motor would you pass the information onto me. I assume you have a 12 volt system. Thanks! Thanks for the e-mail. Have a very Merry Christmas Don Patterson
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Bow thrusters
John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
Hi Don,
If the motor has failed it can only be bad brushes or burnt out windings on the armature solenoid or whatever. Find a local electrical shop capable of rewinding and get their advice. There is nothing majical about the repair except that it is quickly done and much cheaper than buying and shipping a new motor. It worked for us in Venezuela and other places. In Australia we had a problem with the exhaust elbow on the Volvo on our then boat. A replacement could only be obtained by having one flown out at huge expense. A local firm in Queensland fabricated a new one out of stainless in a couple of days and it cost much less than a replacement even before shipping costs,import aggravation etc.. Try it,what have you got to lose! Merry Christmas to all. Anne and John, SM319
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] "Heaving To"
Steve Leeds
Dear Don,
The wheel (and thus rudder) should be turned to windward. It has to be adjusted until you achieve the optimal 55 degrees bow angle off the wind. In our boat in lower winds we have a tendency to fall off too much which causes rolling. As the wind picks up, the mizzen turns the boat back into the wind. The wheel should be held in position with a heavy shock-cord to allow some "give" to relieve shock to the steering gear. The boat should be stalled, not making any headway through the water and producing turbulence from the keel directly to windward. This has to be determined by eye as your GPS will show the boat moving in some direction, generally downwind but possibly any direction even upwind due to the current. Cheers, Steve mangoamel <mangoamel@...> wrote: Dear Steve;When heaved to what position do you place the rudder? A midship? Thank you, Don Patterson Barefoot
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] "Heaving To"
mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
Dear Steve;When heaved to what position do you place the rudder? A midship? Thank you, Don Patterson Barefoot
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amel mango bow thruster and furling electric motors
mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
It appears as if the bow thruster propulsion electric motor has
failed. I have e-mailed Amel as to availability of a replacement motor but have had no response as of yet. The electric furling motors and the bow thruster motors have four cables. On the bow thruster appears to have the following: (1) ground,(2)power from solenoid to run the motor clockwise0(3) power from solenoid to run motor counter clockwise and (4) a fourth cable which is attached to forward solenoid but it is not a power lead. I suspect that it maybe some type of neutral or return that may go to the negative side of the battery. I spoke with joel Potter he described the electrical system as "a full floating electric system"; however he could not tell me the function of the fourth cable (wire). The four cable (wire) system is also used on the outhaul, main sail and head sail furling electric motors. If someone could esplain the purpose of the fourth cable (wire) I would appreciate it. Additionally, if anyone knows of a source for the propulsion motor or has substituted another electric motor for the original one, I would appreciate being advised incase Amel does not have one available. Thanks to all for your assistance. Don Pstterson
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Re: Super maramu bow thruster, and leaking rudder
asm283 <no_reply@...>
Hi Graham
The rudderpost is very much like a stuffing box tighten it and it will stop leaking. Only tighten as much as needed. Bow thruster is again quite simple. 4 screws between the motor and the shaft will allow you to drop the unit. Make sure someone is there to catch it. This is best done out of the water. You can buy the seals from Amel. Change the oil while you have it out. Vito Wanderer --- In amelyachtowners@..., "Graham Boyd" <crwggb@y...> wrote: we had water come in the rudder stock, this collected in the arealeaked through a hole covered by a white plastic cap into the skeg cavity.
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