Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers

svmalaika@...
 

Jim,

If the two minute timer is used to delay the start of the watermaker what you
describe will happen and is normal. If, however, you start the watermaker,
let it run until the green light comes on and then short circuit across the two
wires to the sensor (simulating conducting salt water) the solenoid should
close the valve and the green light should go off. Conversely, if you short
across the two sensor wires (again simulating conducting seawater) and start the
watermaker the green light should never come on and the solenoid should not open
the valve.

Regards,
Charlie


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers for dummies

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hello Roy.

the later SM's don't have the water tap on the water maker control panel. It
has been relocated to the high pressure pump to make draining the oil easy.
A good idea. I never did find the tap on the control panel that useful, much
as I would have like to use it to fill the kettle with taste free water. It
s position was just too awkward. I got around this by installing a Seagull
water filter with it's own tap at the sink. There is space to drill the
fixing hole in the sink top just to the right of the existing tap, and once
fitted, water from the keel tank tastes wonderful, even when the boat is new
and the smell of the tank lining has not worn off. The filter is so fine
that even Giardia bacteria are prevented from getting through should be
unlucky enough to upload some from a shore supply.

Today I took Crusader to sea and did a test. I ran the water maker normally
then shorted the salinity sensor. Nothing happened! So it looks as if what
you said below is true. The sensor may have been deactivated in the quest
for easy maintenance. This I find quite extraordinary and if true,
irresponsible. Why disable a 'belt and braces' system for the sake of trying
to make the system appear to be trouble free?

Imagine this scenario. You are on a long ocean crossing and your membranes
go bad. The water maker keeps running as the salinity tester is deactivated,
and in the meantime you are polluting your good, and maybe only source of
drinkable water. It just not make sense to me. I just hope that my test was
not done properly, but I did try it several times. Maybe the terminals
needed to be shorted for a minimum period of time?

Surely all Amel needed to have told it's customers is that if the unit shuts
down for reasons other than over pressure or overload of the genset, check
the sensor for dirty contacts. It's extremely easy to get to and a cinch to
remove.

Roy, if you do know how to wire the salinity tester back into the circuit
board, then please let me know. I want to do this right away as I rely 100%
on RO water to fill my tank. I forgot to bring the circuit diagrams back
home with me. Maybe it's obvious what to do, but any help would be welcome.

Finally, I am glad that I have a water testing instrument. It's the only way
of being sure that your water is safe and that the membranes are in good
order.

Best Wishes

Ian Shepherd

-------Original Message-------

From: rbenven44
Date: 12/29/04 19:34:40
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers for dummies


A few years ago, when we were in the Med, we met another Super Maramu
that had discovered that the watermaker had a 2-minute delay at start-
up, and an inoperative salinity sensor. The owner was told by
Dessalator that Amel had requested the units be installed that way so
that owners would not have to clean the salinity sensor, and so that
occasional sensing errors would not shut down the system. This was
part of Amel's "low-maintenance" approach.
This owner then rewired the control panel to activate the sensor, and
I believe that it has worked fine since then. We did not do it to
our boat, as I was happy tasting the product at the control panel
faucet (don't the new boats have this?) to verify proper operation.
By the way, we have 875 hours on our watermaker over 8 seasons with
no problems other than the leaks in the old membrane plastic end cap
fittings (which Dessalator replaced with SS ones a few years back).
Rather than post this owner's name on the web site, I will contact
him directly and ask him to post on the web site how he rewired the
unit to activate the salinity sensor.
Happy New Year to all.

Roy Benveniste
SM Excalibur #195




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Watermaker

amelforme
 

Hello Fellow Amel Owners.



I have sent a message to Dessalator and await their reply. To my
recollection, the system has both a salinity tester and a "minimum" start
timer to be sure that the start up cycle fully purges the entire system. I
will report my findings as soon as I have a response, probably next week as
everyone is on holiday until after Saint Sylvester/New Years.



All the best,

Joel F. Potter SMM # 400 "MARY BROWN"


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Hi John,

I won't have time to do any tests for a few days, but I would guess that
there might also be a time delay built into the system as well to ensure a
suitable wait after the probe senses good water. This may be done for two
reasons. Firstly to ensure that any bad water in the system is flushed well
out before the valve switches, and secondly to give the system a more
certain chance of not sending bad water into the tank should the probe sense
fresh water too early due to poor conductivity through dirty probes.

Maybe the way to test it is to get the watermaker running normally with the
green light on, then short out the probe using a potentiometer or at least a
resistor, to see if the bad water light comes on or the system shuts down. I
will see what I can do, but I don't want to blow anything up! Has anyone
asked Desalinator direct yet? (dessaltator@...).

By the way, did you get the Hydra to read the magnetic wind direction yet?

Regards to Anne. K was over here for a couple of weeks recently.

Cheers

Ian

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Watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hello Charlie,
Apologies....you are quite right. So the test might be to have one
person in the galley and the other in the engine room.The galley
person switches the watermaker on and sees the red LED. The other
person pulls a connector off the probe and at that moment there
should be a clunk from the solenoid and the green LED should
come on.
My bet is that it will do nothing until the two minutes pass and I
look forward to a report from someone with a boat in clean water to
do the test.
I also hope that Joel or Amel will give a full explanation of the
installations so that if there is no detector circuit one can decide
whether to fit one. Having seen the pics of the damaged washing
machine parts on Blue Marine I would not hesitate.
My installation has been faultless except last summer when the
capacitors on the big electric motor burnt out. The size had been
painted over but I got a quick reply from the makers, they are 2 X
30 MFD or 1 60 MFD and 250 volt of course. They are very cheap and
easily fitted and should perhaps be in the spares kit for
transoceanic voyages. The electrician told me that such failures are
relatively common on induction start motors.

Best wishes from Malta, John


Satellite radio

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

Has any one installed a satellite radio in their boat yet? It seams to be the rage now, and it looks like it can work 100's of miles off shore. Its crystal clear and has no commercialls. News weather,sports and all kinds of music 24/7. Its cheap enough as you use your existing am fm radio. Its about a $100.00 for the unit and $10.00 per month. They say it will work in Puerto Rico,and the Virgins, but i don't know. Has anyone had any experience? If its satterlite, why can't it work in the Pacific?
John sm248 " Moondog"

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermaker

svmalaika@...
 

Ian,

It seems to me that your "simple test" is the reverse of what should be done. Seawater conducts and closes the circuit. Pure water does not conduct and therefore produces an open circuit. If you remove a wire, producing an open circuit, the sensor would indicate pure water and open the valve after the two minute start up period. Wouldn't a proper test be to short circuit across the two sensor wires, indicating conducting seawater, and see if the valve closes?

Charlie Cronheim
S/V MALAIKA II (SM336)
Barcelona, Spain


Watermaker

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Happy New Year Ian,
We hope that you are enjoying your festivities. We leave Malta
tomorrow for a couple of weeks in the UK,Boat Show etc.
Our boat is out of the water so I cannot test the salinity monitor.
However when I went to clean the probes some time ago they were
clean.
I did check the time between turning the machine on and the opening
of the solenoid valve and it is exactly two minutes. The simple test
is to remove the wire from the probe so that cannot work and then
switch on the watermaker and I think you will find that the green
LED comes on and the solenoid operates after 120 seconds. Please let
us all know.
I had an American watermaker, a PUR Power Recovery 12 volt at one
time and they told me that they had been unable to find a long
lasting soleniod valve as sea water killed them off sooner or later.
I therefore installed a 3 way valve in the system so I could switch
over manually when the green light came on the salinity monitor and
I also had a T junction in the product line feeding a valve in a
convenient position so that I could taste the product as a check on
the monitor.

All the best, John


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers

Ian Shepherd <g4ljf@...>
 

Dear John & Walter,

I may be mistaken, but I am not sure that you are right about the nature of
the salinity tester. On my 160 l/h unit, there is a device with two probes
that is located on the output of the membranes. It consists of two probes
that measure, presumably, the conductivity of the desalinated water which
will be related to the salt content. This device controls the diverter valve
that allows water to enter the tank when it meets the required level of
freshness.

This seems to use a similar principle to my Hanna water tester, two probes
measuring the conductivity of the water. I do seem to remember talking to
Desalinator at the Cannes boat show some time ago, and they did mention that
you do need to keep these probes clean for them to work properly. Could it
be that the probes on Blue Marine were contaminated and that the probe was
not working properly?

Season's Greeting so all.

Ian Shepherd "Crusader" SM 414

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Algae on propeller

tonic102004 <paebersold@...>
 

I am new owner of a used sm (227). I did not use it much until know.
The boat is well maintained and in very good condition, we like it
very much. Nevertheless, there seems to be a problem with algae
development on the propeller when the boat lays for a few weeks in
the marina. Actualy the boat is in SanRemo in the Med. After a few
weeks not beeing used, the engines gets up to 1700t/m instead of 2500
or more. The previous owner had evertime asked a diver to clean the
propeller before navigating.
Has anybody experience in solving this problem. Or is the only way
diving and cleaning?
Thanks
Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers

Walter Lundstrom <WalterL@...>
 

I'm under the impression that the 2 minutes wait has to with the water (with
the water maker in the engine room)being to warm and the 2 minutes
circulation would cool it down. Maybe I'm wrong...
Walter
Prior owner "Linna"

-----Original Message-----
From: John and Anne on Bali Hai [mailto:hollamby@...]
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Watermakers



Some time ago I commented on what appeared to be strange features of the
watermakers fitted to Super Maramus. Our boat is fitted with a 160 ltr per
hr unit and has performed perfectly over the past three seasons. The
standard installation is a 60 ltr ph unit, I think. It seems that both units
have one thing in common, namely that the so called salinity monitor is
nonexistent. Instead it is a timer which assumes the sea water has been
desalinated after two minutes and then sends the product to the water tank.
This is fine so long as the machine is working properly. However if the
product is not totally purified it will have a salt content which can and
will have a devastating effect on equipment which is designed to only work
with purified water. In other words the alloy castings used to make the
washing machine and others will corrode/erode/be electrolised and fail and
leak just before falling apart with dangerous and expensive consequenses.
I have an Email from Yves on Blue Marine who sends me pictures of destroyed
castings from his washing machine and a report,by someone who claims to be
an expert in this field which has, I believe, been sent to our alter ego,
namely the French version of this web site.
What this report says, in French, which if I understand it right, is that
Amel/Dessalaters have devised a version of the standard 60 ltr ph machine
which is fundamentally flawed as it does not provide enough sea water to
satisfy the desalinator and that this results in the early failure of the
membranes with potentially catastrophic results.
Whether this is true or not I have no idea but we need to know ! It could be
that Yves on Blue Marine has,umwittingly, flushed the membranes with shore
water containing chlorine which would immediately damage the membranes
beyond repair.
I have the bigger version because I know, from transpac experience that it
is better to have a machine which will produce a lot of water quickly whilst
the genset is running, or with my last boat, with a high pressure pump
working the desalinator staight off the end of the main engine drive
pulleys. I also know that one of the greatest gifts that one can give to
Pacific Islanders on remote atolls or even in larger groups such as Fiji in
times of drought, is fresh water.
The failure of a watermaker on a long voyage would not be catastrophic
assuming that one keeps ones tanks full. However a watermaker without an
effective salinity monitor is potentially life threatening. A simple
alternative would be to to have an easy way of tasting the product coupled
with a manually operated valve to send the pure product to the tanks.
Blue Marine clearly did not notice the failure in the purification process
perhaps, because they, surprisingly to me, drink only bottled water,
whereas we only drink product and would thus be aware fairly soon if the
product was salty. Blue Marines installation was.
I suppose, not passing pure sea water as they would, I imagine would have
noticed the salinity whilst showering.
Be that as it may, there is a very worrying issue here and I call upon our
Guru, Joel Potter, to give us a definitive reply and advice as soon as
possible.
It would also be interesting to have comments from other water making folk.

Happy New Year from Anne and John





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Watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Some time ago I commented on what appeared to be strange features of
the watermakers fitted to Super Maramus. Our boat is fitted with
a 160 ltr per hr unit and has performed perfectly over the past
three seasons. The standard installation is a 60 ltr ph unit, I
think. It seems that both units have one thing in common, namely
that the so called salinity monitor is nonexistent. Instead it is a
timer which assumes the sea water has been desalinated after two
minutes and then sends the product to the water tank.
This is fine so long as the machine is working properly. However if
the product is not totally purified it will have a salt content
which can and will have a devastating effect on equipment which is
designed to only work with purified water. In other words the alloy
castings used to make the washing machine and others will
corrode/erode/be electrolised and fail and leak just before falling
apart with dangerous and expensive consequenses.
I have an Email from Yves on Blue Marine who sends me pictures of
destroyed castings from his washing machine and a report,by someone
who claims to be an expert in this field which has, I believe, been
sent to our alter ego, namely the French version of this web site.
What this report says, in French, which if I understand it right,
is that Amel/Dessalaters have devised a version of the standard 60
ltr ph machine which is fundamentally flawed as it does not provide
enough sea water to satisfy the desalinator and that this results in
the early failure of the membranes with potentially catastrophic
results.
Whether this is true or not I have no idea but we need to know ! It
could be that Yves on Blue Marine has,umwittingly, flushed the
membranes with shore water containing chlorine which would
immediately damage the membranes beyond repair.
I have the bigger version because I know, from transpac experience
that it is better to have a machine which will produce a lot of
water quickly whilst the genset is running, or with my last boat,
with a high pressure pump working the desalinator staight off the
end of the main engine drive pulleys. I also know that one of the
greatest gifts that one can give to Pacific Islanders on remote
atolls or even in larger groups such as Fiji in times of drought, is
fresh water.
The failure of a watermaker on a long voyage would not be
catastrophic assuming that one keeps ones tanks full. However a
watermaker without an effective salinity monitor is potentially life
threatening. A simple alternative would be to to have an easy way of
tasting the product coupled with a manually operated valve to send
the pure product to the tanks.
Blue Marine clearly did not notice the failure in the purification
process perhaps, because they, surprisingly to me, drink only
bottled water, whereas we only drink product and would thus be aware
fairly soon if the product was salty. Blue Marines installation was.
I suppose, not passing pure sea water as they would, I imagine would
have noticed the salinity whilst showering.
Be that as it may, there is a very worrying issue here and I call
upon our Guru, Joel Potter, to give us a definitive reply and advice
as soon as possible.
It would also be interesting to have comments from other water
making folk.

Happy New Year from Anne and John


Bowthrusters

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Don,
Sorry,I cannot help as I have a Super Maramu with 28 volt systems.
Obviously St Lucia is a problem. You could try phoning Nicholsons
Yacht Charter or Joel Brierly, both in Antigua, to see if they know
where there is a competent electrical shop in the Windies.

Good hunting, Anne and John


Re: Bow thrusters

mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John and Anne on Bali Hai"
<hollamby@c...> wrote:

Hi Jon and Anne;
Barefoot is in St. Lucia which is a problem as far as the
services available electrical repair. The electric motor when I
removed it, I found that one of the cables was broken and another
was two thirds gone. These cables were located at the top end of
the motor. These cables were replaced and I was able to get the
motor to run in a clockwise direction. The two cables that run to
the bottom of the motor inside the motor housing show continuity but
I able to determine their load carrying capability. One of these
cables is brazed onto a lead on the stator. St. Lucia does not have
the ability braze these heavy cables. Do happen to know the
function of the fourth cable?

Jon if you can read identification lable on the bow thruster
motor would you pass the information onto me. I assume you have a
12 volt system. Thanks!

Thanks for the e-mail. Have a very Merry Christmas

Don Patterson


Re: Bow thrusters

mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "John and Anne on Bali Hai"
<hollamby@c...> wrote:

Hi Jon and Anne;
Barefoot is in St. Lucia which is a problem as far as the
services available electrical repair. The electric motor when I
removed it, I found that one of the cables was broken and another
was two thirds gone. These cables were located at the top end of
the motor. These cables were replaced and I was able to get the
motor to run in a clockwise direction. The two cables that run to
the bottom of the motor inside the motor housing show continuity but
I able to determine their load carrying capability. One of these
cables is brazed onto a lead on the stator. St. Lucia does not have
the ability braze these heavy cables. Do happen to know the
function of the fourth cable?

Jon if you can read identification lable on the bow thruster
motor would you pass the information onto me. I assume you have a
12 volt system. Thanks!

Thanks for the e-mail. Have a very Merry Christmas

Don Patterson


Bow thrusters

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Don,
If the motor has failed it can only be bad brushes or burnt out
windings on the armature solenoid or whatever. Find a local
electrical shop capable of rewinding and get their advice. There is
nothing majical about the repair except that it is quickly done and
much cheaper than buying and shipping a new motor.
It worked for us in Venezuela and other places. In Australia we had
a problem with the exhaust elbow on the Volvo on our then boat. A
replacement could only be obtained by having one flown out at huge
expense. A local firm in Queensland fabricated a new one out of
stainless in a couple of days and it cost much less than a
replacement even before shipping costs,import aggravation etc..
Try it,what have you got to lose!

Merry Christmas to all. Anne and John, SM319


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] "Heaving To"

Steve Leeds
 

Dear Don,
The wheel (and thus rudder) should be turned to windward. It has to be adjusted until you achieve the optimal 55 degrees bow angle off the wind. In our boat in lower winds we have a tendency to fall off too much which causes rolling. As the wind picks up, the mizzen turns the boat back into the wind. The wheel should be held in position with a heavy shock-cord to allow some "give" to relieve shock to the steering gear. The boat should be stalled, not making any headway through the water and producing turbulence from the keel directly to windward. This has to be determined by eye as your GPS will show the boat moving in some direction, generally downwind but possibly any direction even upwind due to the current.

Cheers,
Steve

mangoamel <mangoamel@...> wrote:

Dear Steve;
When heaved to what position do you place the rudder? A midship?

Thank you,


Don Patterson
Barefoot


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] "Heaving To"

mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
 

Dear Steve;
When heaved to what position do you place the rudder? A midship?

Thank you,


Don Patterson
Barefoot


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amel mango bow thruster and furling electric motors

mangoamel <mangoamel@...>
 

It appears as if the bow thruster propulsion electric motor has
failed. I have e-mailed Amel as to availability of a replacement
motor but have had no response as of yet.

The electric furling motors and the bow thruster motors have four
cables. On the bow thruster appears to have the following: (1)
ground,(2)power from solenoid to run the motor clockwise0(3) power
from solenoid to run motor counter clockwise and (4) a fourth cable
which is attached to forward solenoid but it is not a power lead.
I suspect that it maybe some type of neutral or return that may go
to the negative side of the battery. I spoke with joel Potter he
described the electrical system as "a full floating electric
system"; however he could not tell me the function of the fourth
cable (wire). The four cable (wire) system is also used on the
outhaul, main sail and head sail furling electric motors. If someone
could esplain the purpose of the fourth cable (wire) I would
appreciate it.

Additionally, if anyone knows of a source for the propulsion motor
or has substituted another electric motor for the original one, I
would appreciate being advised incase Amel does not have one
available. Thanks to all for your assistance.

Don Pstterson


Re: Super maramu bow thruster, and leaking rudder

asm283 <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Graham

The rudderpost is very much like a stuffing box tighten it and it
will stop leaking. Only tighten as much as needed.

Bow thruster is again quite simple. 4 screws between the motor and
the shaft will allow you to drop the unit. Make sure someone is there
to catch it. This is best done out of the water. You can buy the
seals from Amel. Change the oil while you have it out.

Vito

Wanderer

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Graham Boyd" <crwggb@y...>
wrote:

Can any one help?

I have just purchased SM140 "Sula" (ex Gallant of Fowey). I require
to replace the bow thruster seals, any top tips that might make the
job easier?
Also on our trip from Cornwall to the Clyde in Scotland last month
we
had water come in the rudder stock, this collected in the area
infront of the stock and the a fair amount of it seems to have
leaked
through a hole covered by a white plastic cap into the skeg cavity.
Is this plastic cap meant to be water tight and does anyone know if
there is a drain hole for the skeg cavity?
Any other comments would be welcome as owning an amel is a new
experience for us,

Graham Boyd
SM 140 Sula