Date   

Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Guys, the one point you are missing is that the Maramu transmission is designed to allow for free wheeling.  NOT all transmissions are.  Before anyone with a SM takes to sea with the prop turning undersail please take a look at the spec on YOUR transmission to be sure you can safely free wheel.  Regarding the speed of the boat; we did several trans-Atlantic crossings with the prop on our Maramu free wheeling and charging the batteries that worked better then the wind mill we have on our SM.  The fact is that in practice the free wheeling/charging solution is the better way to go..Best to all, Challenge in Annapolis SM 209Richard and Joan

--- On Tue, 5/5/09, G D <maramu@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: G D <maramu@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:17 AM


























Last but not the least. I wont bother you with rocket science or nuclear physic as I'm not an engineer. So I can tell you that when I engage the prop shaft driven alternator, I loose around half a knot when I'm between 5 and 9 knots

Again this has nothing to do with hydrodynamic theory or fluid mechanic, it is simply a true fact of sailing.

Best regards to all

Erick

To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com

From: maramu@hotmail. com

Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 07:09:59 +0200

Subject: RE: [Amel] shaft driven alternator



Dear All



I truly agree with David, a Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator and in fact not many people know that. I use a Max prop with an alternator fited by amel. It works perfectly well, provided that you do the following



1 Start the engine and run it at idle,



2 While under sail, engage the reverse and accelerate slowly untill the gearbox is well engaged, you should hear a kind of "Klong"



3 While still runing the engine at idle with the reverse engaged under sail, turn on the alternator switch.



4 Bring back the Morse stick to neutral,(you will fell some kind of resistance)



5 Turn off the engine and ............ ......... ....your power plant is on runing with a max prop.



I have been using this method for the past 10 years and it works perfectly well, generating plentifull Amps. By eight knots, I manage to cover my heavy consumption.



In addition I have fited an Air wind turbine on the mizzaine mast which worls perfectly well.



Regards to all



Erick



To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com



From: dlm48@aol.com



Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 23:35:45 +0100



Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator



Dave you are missing the point either deliberately or not.



IF you have an excess of HP from your sails and you are at hull speed and



pushing the envelope on the displacement drag curve with say 150/200 or more



HP coming off your sails on an Amel fully powered up - any drag from a prop



driving a shaft alternator is totally unimportant and incidental. As a



multiple disciplined engineer i can categorically prove mathematically that



a fixed bladed prop has less drag when held stationary than one that is



allowed to rotate 'freely' under the influence of the boats motion. HOWEVER



i have proven to myself that the actuality of this - the theory does not



work in practice - for 20 or more years i sailed with the prop stopped with



the engine in gear until i was doing a delivery trip with the owner on board



on a Privilege 37 Cat he had left the props free wheeling and when i stopped



them when i came on watch he came back on deck and explained that the boat



was faster with the props freewheeling. As i knew and could prove



empirically this was not the case i argued the point until he proved to me



that my expert opinion was rubbish. Why you would introduce folding or



feathering props into this topic - i truly dont understand - also fixed



props dont slow a boat down feathering or folding props are go-faster bits



of kit.



So to summarise



IF you have enough sail power to get hull speed then you wont notice any



drag from a prop shaft driven alternator.



IN every boat i have sailed and tested allowing the prop to rotate is less



draggy and is a faster way to sail than keeping it stopped.



A feathering or folding prop has less drag than a fixed bladed prop



A Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator



(not many people know that)



regards



David



2009/5/4 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>







Eric,




My professional background is in aviation and props in the water and props


in the air have some similarities. Air and water are both fluids albeit


water is a much denser medium. Also the laws of physics come into play.


Anotherwords the prop is not freewheeling since the generator places a load


on it. You cannot extract energy from the water in the form of a prop


generator without creating friction. People can believe what they want to


believe. The laws of physics and hydrodynamics will still apply. The only


way to really reduce the prop drag penalty is with a feathering or folding


prop which is precisely why the racing rules give credits for a fixed prop.


The handicappers know the fixed prop will slow a boat down and give a 3


second or 6 second per mile credit for it.




--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcgloba l.net<etlindholm% 40sbcglobal. net>>


wrote:




From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcgloba l.net <etlindholm% 40sbcglobal. net>






Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator


To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups. com>


Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:12 PM






David, I actually read a study where the results showed that there was


less drag with the prop freewheeling, no alternator, like you said, rather


than locked. I also agree that this goes against everything I have ever


heard. Even after reading the article, I have a very difficult time


believing it. If I can find it I will post it for your info, or at least


amusement. It was a study comparing all of the props available for


sailboats, and there efficiency in forward, reverse, and under sail. It


compared 2 blade, 3 blade, maxi prop, etc. Eric maramu 105




--- On Mon, 5/4/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol. com>>


wrote:




From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol. com>>




Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator




To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com




Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:41 AM




YES and NO there is theory and there is practice.... ...on my O461 the boat




IS faster by up to a knot (unless you are at hull speed with plenty of


wind)




if you let the prop free wheel and i know this is contrary to scientific




theory...i guess the prop is uneducated. I have discovered that this is the




case on quite a few boats i have sailed too - so this is not a one off




phenomenon.




Driving a shaft generator would i 'think' cause more drag - as you dont get




nothing for nothing - and the energy to drive that alternator has to come




from somewhere. However if you have an excess of sail power you 'might' not




see a decrease in boat speed which after all is all that matters. I am




ignoring wear and noise issues (for the pedantic).




regards




David




2009/5/3 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>












Ettore and Silvana,








You are defying the laws of physics and hydrodynamics if you really think




the shaft alternator does not slow the boat down. In fact the turning




propeller acts almost like a disc. It generated more resistance than it




would if it was stationary. I would use one if it was already installed


but




I would not go out of my way to install a speed brake like that. There


are




some solutions in the form of a unit that is deployed from the transom.


One




of my neighbors used one to and from Hawaii and it generated electricity




quite well.








--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com<


arcadinoesailing % 40hotmail. com>>




wrote:








From: Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com< arcadinoesailing %


40hotmail. com>








Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator




To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.


com>




Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 9:43 AM












Hi David and Hazel,








We use the shaft driven alternator in our Mango with much satisfaction.








No reduction the speed on sailing.








It will give 7/9 amp when running at 7/8 knots.








It don't works down 4 knots.








Very very important: if you have Hurth gearbox or similar, is imperative


to












run the motor half our every 12 ours, to lubricate the gearbox because r








shaft running isn't enaugh to lubricate the interior of the gearbox: if


the












motor is not on, is easy to break the interior disks of the gearbox.








Now our Mango is independent for the electriciy of Marina: 2 solar panel








and 1 wind generator is perfectly.








With 15/20 wind knots We have cooking the pizza in the electric four at








220v!!!








Ettore & Silvana of Arca di Noè








----- Original Message -----








From: "David and Hazel Worthington" <spritoaffine@ yahoo.co. uk>








To: <amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com>








Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:43 PM








Subject: [Amel] shaft driven alternator








Hi All








Due to the charges being imposed by marina operators now for


electricity








in the Med I have been considering various options to allow free


battery








charging
















Our rattly Max Prop needs rebuilding and I was wondering about


replacing








it with a standard fixed prop in order to use the propshaft alternator




but








am concerned about loss of speed and increase in noise when sailing,


does












anyone still use their prop driven alternator or has everyone turned to








solar and wind power instead. I understand we would need a 19 inch prop








but am not sure whether the 13 mentioned is inches or degrees of pitch.








Our aft cabin is too noisy to sleep in on passage due to




propshaft/cutless








bearing noise even after replacing the cutless bearing, is this normal?








Also would we go backwards straighter with the Max Prop or a fixed


prop?








we don't have a bow thruster








Your opinions would be appreciated








David and Hazel Sharki 148
































------------ --------- --------- ------
















Yahoo! Groups Links
















































































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]












































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.



http://www.microsof t.com/windows/ windowslive/ products/ events.aspx



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





















____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.

http://www.microsof t.com/windows/ windowslive/ products/ events.aspx



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


With an AIS transponder you can see your AMEL ! great !!

MERTZ <jlmertz@...>
 

With this link :
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?centerx=4.00¢ery=43.00\;
&zoom=8&mmsi=227797490
<http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?centerx=4.00¢ery=43.0\;
0&zoom=8&mmsi=227797490>
you can see your boat !

Great !!

Merci to Greace Universty

J-Luc
COTTONBAY
SM 316


Re: [Amel] My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B

BM2 <bluemarinemartin@...>
 

Bonjour hanspeter.baettig@bluewin.ch,

On Idle, with no power asked, I always got 4500 RPM.
I also got more when manoeuvering, just a kick to get the boat react but moving slowly.

Rgards

BM2, bluemarinemartin@gmail.com
2009-05-09
----- Message reçu -----
De : hanspeter.baettig@bluewin.ch
À : amelyachtowners
Date : 2009-05-09, 00:24:07
Sujet : AW: [Amel] My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B





Bonjour Yves
Do you get this 3100 RPM with the gear box on idle ?
Regards
Hanspeter
SM Tamango 2

----Urspr¨¹ngliche Nachricht----
Von: bluemarinemartin@gmail.com
Datum: 08.05.2009 21:57
An: "amelyachtowners"<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [Amel] My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B

Having read the numerous posts on this topic, and experienced and solved the same type of problem, I must admit
that I made the usual mistake of running my engine too low: why speed more than 6 knots while admiring beautifull
landscapes, unfortunately without wind (1800 RPM) .
One day, while wanting to go a bit faster, the engine started to refuse to go higher than 2000 RPM.
I opened the exhaust elbow and found it largely restreined by charcoal and the propeller of the turbo litterally
completely blocked. It took me hours, with a very smal screw driver to free all that, including the wesgate, but
without removing the turbo. The result was far from being perfect, but better: about 2500 RPM.
Recently it went back down to 2000 RPM; it was time for something more efficient : I took the whole turbo into
pieces, including disconnecting the shaft of the wastegate from the lever which moves it in case of overpressure (not
only the rod linking to the actuator) . Having done that I was able, having all parts in hand, to clean properly the
flap and the seat of the wastegate with sandpaper; A welding point to refit the lever ( Even in the middle of nowhere I
found somebody with a welding machine). Be sure the wastegate is firmly closed and , although the volvo manual says to
move it from time to time, do not do it!!!! You will never be sure it is well closed and the risk of overpressure is
so small on a sailing boat!!! which should not have a turbo anyway.
I now get 3100 RPM, before cleanng the injectors, which I never did (shame on me) and am doing now.

Good luck.
Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
S.V. BLUE MARINE
SM 311


Re: [Amel] My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B

hanspeter.baettig@bluewin.ch <hanspeter.baettig@...>
 

Bonjour Yves
Do you get this 3100 RPM with the gear box on idle ?
Regards
Hanspeter
SM Tamango 2


----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von: bluemarinemartin@gmail.com
Datum: 08.05.2009 21:57
An: "amelyachtowners"<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Betreff: [Amel] My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B



Having read the numerous posts on this topic, and experienced and solved the same type of problem, I must admit
that I made the usual mistake of running my engine too low: why speed more than 6 knots while admiring beautifull
landscapes, unfortunately without wind (1800 RPM) .
One day, while wanting to go a bit faster, the engine started to refuse to go higher than 2000 RPM.
I opened the exhaust elbow and found it largely restreined by charcoal and the propeller of the turbo litterally
completely blocked. It took me hours, with a very smal screw driver to free all that, including the wesgate, but
without removing the turbo. The result was far from being perfect, but better: about 2500 RPM.
Recently it went back down to 2000 RPM; it was time for something more efficient : I took the whole turbo into
pieces, including disconnecting the shaft of the wastegate from the lever which moves it in case of overpressure (not
only the rod linking to the actuator) . Having done that I was able, having all parts in hand, to clean properly the
flap and the seat of the wastegate with sandpaper; A welding point to refit the lever ( Even in the middle of nowhere I
found somebody with a welding machine). Be sure the wastegate is firmly closed and , although the volvo manual says to
move it from time to time, do not do it!!!! You will never be sure it is well closed and the risk of overpressure is
so small on a sailing boat!!! which should not have a turbo anyway.
I now get 3100 RPM, before cleanng the injectors, which I never did (shame on me) and am doing now.

Good luck.
Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
S.V. BLUE MARINE
SM 311


My experience on Volvo TMD22P-C-B

BM2 <bluemarinemartin@...>
 

Having read the numerous posts on this topic, and experienced and solved the same type of problem, I must admit that I made the usual mistake of running my engine too low: why speed more than 6 knots while admiring beautifull landscapes, unfortunately without wind (1800 RPM) .
One day, while wanting to go a bit faster, the engine started to refuse to go higher than 2000 RPM.
I opened the exhaust elbow and found it largely restreined by charcoal and the propeller of the turbo litterally completely blocked. It took me hours, with a very smal screw driver to free all that, including the wesgate, but without removing the turbo. The result was far from being perfect, but better: about 2500 RPM.
Recently it went back down to 2000 RPM; it was time for something more efficient : I took the whole turbo into pieces, including disconnecting the shaft of the wastegate from the lever which moves it in case of overpressure (not only the rod linking to the actuator) . Having done that I was able, having all parts in hand, to clean properly the flap and the seat of the wastegate with sandpaper; A welding point to refit the lever ( Even in the middle of nowhere I found somebody with a welding machine). Be sure the wastegate is firmly closed and , although the volvo manual says to move it from time to time, do not do it!!!! You will never be sure it is well closed and the risk of overpressure is so small on a sailing boat!!! which should not have a turbo anyway.
I now get 3100 RPM, before cleanng the injectors, which I never did (shame on me) and am doing now.

Good luck.
Yves MARTIN d'AIGUEPERSE
S.V. BLUE MARINE
SM 311


Bilge pump gear

btleonore <leonorebt@...>
 

Hello fellow Amel owners
I had my bilge pump fail due to a nylon gear losing a tooth or two. It is designed to fail to protect the rest of the pump system. If any one has an old pump with the worm driven gear intact, I would like to buy the gear from you. With or without the shaft on which it is mounted.
I had an old pump fail due to the drive shaft breaking and had to replace the whole unit. That was proper but to replace a whole pump for the failure of a part designed to fail does not make sense. Motor, valves etc are fine. I would like the name of the manufacturer, if you know also, for contact purposes.

Any suggestions in addition would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bill on Leonore of Sark, SM 72

PS. After 12 years of sailing, Trudy and I are selling Leonore. If you know anyone who can not live without an amel, let us know. Thanks.


Re: [Amel] Re: URGENT Help Needed - RPM Issues

Eric Lindholm
 

I don't know if anyone suggested it yet, but I would install a pressure gauge on the intake manifold to read the boost pressure. With that and a pyro, you can usually isolate any type of problem. Eric maramu 105




________________________________
From: agav8ter <agav8ter@yahoo.com>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 6:57:21 AM
Subject: [Amel] Re: URGENT Help Needed - RPM Issues





Hello,
I hope this is not too late to help. I agree with all that has been said in reply to your problem. I would also check the following: Remove the "actuating rod" that goes from the vacuum pot that is connected to the small arm on the top of the turbo. This arm goes to a shaft that operates the valve that regulates (the wastegate) the pressure (boost) that the turbo can produce. This shaft "cokes up" and can freeze in the open position causing the boost from the turbo to exit the chamber and go out the exhaust, no boost no RPM.

It is also possible that someone has put a small crescent wrench on the flat arm and tried to work it back and forth to free it up. This may work, but it may also cause the small weld between the shaft and the flat are to break (very hard to see with naked eye) If this happens then everything will look like it is working, but in fact the arm is moving and the shaft is not, causing the same problem, wastegate stuck in the open position.

Final thought. It seems that when Perkins, Volvo, GM who ever, asked Garret to supply the turbo they insisted that no parts be sold at retail. The dealers will be happy to sell you a complete turbo, but not the individual parts. My personal rant.

Good luck and fair seas,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM266

--- In amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com, "ericmeury" <ericmeury@. ..> wrote:

hello, i'm helping kent bring his SM hull number 243 to richmond via bahamas. We are currently at the docks in ft lauderdale.

Kent sailed the boat from tx to ft laurdale and was only able to acheive a max of 1600 rpm.

Based upon previous experience and all the posts Ray Eaton was convinced that it was the turbo. Ray took the turbo off the boat had some part was broken and need to be replaced. The turbo was fixed and cleaned, so no carbon issues.

Also the prop ws cleaned before he left texas. So the probability that it is the prop is not high either. We haven't dove in yet to check but i do plan to do that on monday.

We are only able to do 1250 RPM under load. Engine doesn't smoke at all btw.

The Raycor's have also been cleaned.

Clearly this is an issue with these engines and most of the problem is related to carbon build up. After tracing the above and finding no problems, where do we go from here... injectors? fuel pump? and also any easy way to check.

Thank you.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: URGENT Help Needed - RPM Issues

David Mackintosh <dlm48@...>
 

there are plenty of people around who will overhaul a turbo and who can
supply parts dont know what Garret turbo you are talking about but it will
have a standard input and output modules with standard wastegate parts too.

regards

David

2009/5/8 agav8ter <agav8ter@yahoo.com>


SNIP

Final thought. It seems that when Perkins, Volvo, GM who ever, asked Garret
to supply the turbo they insisted that no parts be sold at retail. The
dealers will be happy to sell you a complete turbo, but not the individual
parts. My personal rant.

Good luck and fair seas,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM266


Re: [Amel] Re: URGENT Help Needed - RPM Issues

jlmertz@free.fr <jlmertz@...>
 

1- what is your engine ? (volvo tmd22p)
2- how many ours ?
3-did you change turbo - injectors?
j-luc
CottonBay
------------------------------------------------------------------------



agav8ter a écrit :



Hello,
I hope this is not too late to help. I agree with all that has been
said in reply to your problem. I would also check the following:
Remove the "actuating rod" that goes from the vacuum pot that is
connected to the small arm on the top of the turbo. This arm goes to a
shaft that operates the valve that regulates (the wastegate) the
pressure (boost) that the turbo can produce. This shaft "cokes up" and
can freeze in the open position causing the boost from the turbo to
exit the chamber and go out the exhaust, no boost no RPM.

It is also possible that someone has put a small crescent wrench on
the flat arm and tried to work it back and forth to free it up. This
may work, but it may also cause the small weld between the shaft and
the flat are to break (very hard to see with naked eye) If this
happens then everything will look like it is working, but in fact the
arm is moving and the shaft is not, causing the same problem,
wastegate stuck in the open position.

Final thought. It seems that when Perkins, Volvo, GM who ever, asked
Garret to supply the turbo they insisted that no parts be sold at
retail. The dealers will be happy to sell you a complete turbo, but
not the individual parts. My personal rant.

Good luck and fair seas,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM266

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>, "ericmeury"
<ericmeury@...> wrote:

hello, i'm helping kent bring his SM hull number 243 to richmond via
bahamas. We are currently at the docks in ft lauderdale.

Kent sailed the boat from tx to ft laurdale and was only able to
acheive a max of 1600 rpm.

Based upon previous experience and all the posts Ray Eaton was
convinced that it was the turbo. Ray took the turbo off the boat had
some part was broken and need to be replaced. The turbo was fixed and
cleaned, so no carbon issues.

Also the prop ws cleaned before he left texas. So the probability
that it is the prop is not high either. We haven't dove in yet to
check but i do plan to do that on monday.

We are only able to do 1250 RPM under load. Engine doesn't smoke at
all btw.

The Raycor's have also been cleaned.

Clearly this is an issue with these engines and most of the problem
is related to carbon build up. After tracing the above and finding no
problems, where do we go from here... injectors? fuel pump? and also
any easy way to check.

Thank you.


Re: URGENT Help Needed - RPM Issues

Ag Av8ter
 

Hello,
I hope this is not too late to help. I agree with all that has been said in reply to your problem. I would also check the following: Remove the "actuating rod" that goes from the vacuum pot that is connected to the small arm on the top of the turbo. This arm goes to a shaft that operates the valve that regulates (the wastegate) the pressure (boost) that the turbo can produce. This shaft "cokes up" and can freeze in the open position causing the boost from the turbo to exit the chamber and go out the exhaust, no boost no RPM.

It is also possible that someone has put a small crescent wrench on the flat arm and tried to work it back and forth to free it up. This may work, but it may also cause the small weld between the shaft and the flat are to break (very hard to see with naked eye) If this happens then everything will look like it is working, but in fact the arm is moving and the shaft is not, causing the same problem, wastegate stuck in the open position.

Final thought. It seems that when Perkins, Volvo, GM who ever, asked Garret to supply the turbo they insisted that no parts be sold at retail. The dealers will be happy to sell you a complete turbo, but not the individual parts. My personal rant.

Good luck and fair seas,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM266

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "ericmeury" <ericmeury@...> wrote:

hello, i'm helping kent bring his SM hull number 243 to richmond via bahamas. We are currently at the docks in ft lauderdale.

Kent sailed the boat from tx to ft laurdale and was only able to acheive a max of 1600 rpm.

Based upon previous experience and all the posts Ray Eaton was convinced that it was the turbo. Ray took the turbo off the boat had some part was broken and need to be replaced. The turbo was fixed and cleaned, so no carbon issues.

Also the prop ws cleaned before he left texas. So the probability that it is the prop is not high either. We haven't dove in yet to check but i do plan to do that on monday.

We are only able to do 1250 RPM under load. Engine doesn't smoke at all btw.

The Raycor's have also been cleaned.

Clearly this is an issue with these engines and most of the problem is related to carbon build up. After tracing the above and finding no problems, where do we go from here... injectors? fuel pump? and also any easy way to check.

Thank you.


Re: [Amel] Re: Sharki manual

Roy Duddy <RDuddy@...>
 

Hello Matt,

Thank you for the offer. I also have a color brochure. However, I am
looking for a manual.

Roy



From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of matt
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel] Re: Sharki manual








--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , "Roy Duddy" <RDuddy@...>
wrote:

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know where I can obtain a manual or a copy
of one for a Sharki? Thanks for your thoughts!



Roy Duddy

"Unwineding" Sharki#123







231 North Amherst Road

Bedford, NH 03110



603-472-8500

603-472-7333 Fax






Hi,
I have genuine colour brochure if you after this one?
Magic
SV.Darien
Amel Euros #88


Re: Sharki manual

matt
 

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Duddy" <RDuddy@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know where I can obtain a manual or a copy
of one for a Sharki? Thanks for your thoughts!



Roy Duddy

"Unwineding" Sharki#123







231 North Amherst Road

Bedford, NH 03110



603-472-8500

603-472-7333 Fax





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
I have genuine colour brochure if you after this one?
Magic
SV.Darien
Amel Euros #88


Sharki manual

Roy Duddy <RDuddy@...>
 

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know where I can obtain a manual or a copy
of one for a Sharki? Thanks for your thoughts!



Roy Duddy

"Unwineding" Sharki#123







231 North Amherst Road

Bedford, NH 03110



603-472-8500

603-472-7333 Fax


shaft alternator and a fixed prop

hns154es <hns154@...>
 

We also have a SM with the shaft alternator and a fixed prop. The alternator is all the in use and for example also on our longest passage from Salinas to Fatu Hiva - 25 days - the alteernator worked without any interuption. No damage to the gearbox or other mechanical parts. The shaft alternator is a big advantage.

Best regards.
Hp & Nath, SM #158, in Fiji
www.nathape.com


Davits chafing dinghy and free turning props

John and Anne on Bali Hai <annejohnholl@...>
 

Hello David,
Thanks for your helpful advice. I have been using ratchet strops but the dinghy still gets chafed so I always carry it on the aft cabin top except for short trips in calm waters. My davits can be seen in photos under SM319 Bali Hai changes and I think perhaps the main snag is that they do not have telescopic extensions so that both tubes of my RIB can be securely strapped in place. The inboard tube fits snugly into the curve of the davit. Just a warning to people thinking davits are a cureall!
We met an boat called Toucan in the South Pacific which had a Volvo engine and he believed in letting the prop turn freely at all times. He had to import a new gearbox and still ignored the Volvo advice that he should run the engine briefly to pressurise the gearbox lubrication system every four hours.

Best wishes, Anne and John SM 319


Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

Patrick McAneny
 

I have a SM with the shaft alternator and a fixed prop. I have been sailing
with my prop freewheeling , thinking it would present less drag ,
apparently I was wrong.I also did not know that it was necessary to run the engine
every few hours or chance damage to the gearbox.In the future I will not
allow the prop to freewheel as often. Would someone tell me the correct
procedure for locking up prop from spinning,especially once you are sailing and
prop is already spinning.I don't want to damage the gearbox and I now know
that I know even less about these boats than I previously assumed. I bought
my boat a couple years ago and it came with no service manuals for either
the boat or the engine , which surprised me considering the complexity of
the boat.I was given a copy of the CD for the SM but it is short on detail.
Did these boat come with detailed service manuals. Thanks, Pat SM123

In a message dated 5/5/2009 1:10:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
maramu@hotmail.com writes:






Dear All
I truly agree with David, a Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will
drive a prop shaft alternator and in fact not many people know that. I use a
Max prop with an alternator fited by amel. It works perfectly well,
provided that you do the following
1 Start the engine and run it at idle,
2 While under sail, engage the reverse and accelerate slowly untill the
gearbox is well engaged, you should hear a kind of "Klong"
3 While still runing the engine at idle with the reverse engaged under
sail, turn on the alternator switch.
4 Bring back the Morse stick to neutral,(you will fell some kind of
resistance)
5 Turn off the engine and ............5 Turn of5 Turn off the engine and
............<WBR>.......
I have been using this method for the past 10 years and it works perfectly
well, generating plentifull Amps. By eight knots, I manage to cover my
heavy consumption.
In addition I have fited an Air wind turbine on the mizzaine mast which
worls perfectly well.
Regards to all
Erick

To: _amelyachtowners@amelyachtowname_
(mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com)
From: _dlm48@aol.com_ (mailto:dlm48@aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 23:35:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

Dave you are missing the point either deliberately or not.

IF you have an excess of HP from your sails and you are at hull speed and

pushing the envelope on the displacement drag curve with say 150/200 or
more

HP coming off your sails on an Amel fully powered up - any drag from a
prop

driving a shaft alternator is totally unimportant and incidental. As a

multiple disciplined engineer i can categorically prove mathematically that

a fixed bladed prop has less drag when held stationary than one that is

allowed to rotate 'freely' under the influence of the boats motion. HOWEVER

i have proven to myself that the actuality of this - the theory does not

work in practice - for 20 or more years i sailed with the prop stopped with

the engine in gear until i was doing a delivery trip with the owner on
board

on a Privilege 37 Cat he had left the props free wheeling and when i
stopped

them when i came on watch he came back on deck and explained that the boat

was faster with the props freewheeling. As i knew and could prove

empirically this was not the case i argued the point until he proved to me

that my expert opinion was rubbish. Why you would introduce folding or

feathering props into this topic - i truly dont understand - also fixed

props dont slow a boat down feathering or folding props are go-faster bits

of kit.

So to summarise

IF you have enough sail power to get hull speed then you wont notice any

drag from a prop shaft driven alternator.

IN every boat i have sailed and tested allowing the prop to rotate is less

draggy and is a faster way to sail than keeping it stopped.

A feathering or folding prop has less drag than a fixed bladed prop

A Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator

(not many people know that)

regards

David

2009/5/4 Dave Benjamin <_dave_benjamin@dave_benj_
(mailto:dave_benjamin@yahoo.com) >

Eric,
My professional background is in aviation and props in the water and
props

in the air have some similarities. Air and water are both fluids albeit
water is a much denser medium. Also the laws of physics come into play.
Anotherwords the prop is not freewheeling since the generator places a
load

on it. You cannot extract energy from the water in the form of a prop
generator without creating friction. People can believe what they want
to

believe. The laws of physics and hydrodynamics will still apply. The only
way to really reduce the prop drag penalty is with a feathering or
folding

prop which is precisely why the racing rules give credits for a fixed
prop.

The handicappers know the fixed prop will slow a boat down and give a 3
second or 6 second per mile credit for it.
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Eric Lindholm <_etlindholm@sbcglobaetlin_
(mailto:etlindholm@sbcglobal.net) <etlindholm%etlindholm%etl>>

wrote:
From: Eric Lindholm <_etlindholm@sbcglobaetlin_
(mailto:etlindholm@sbcglobal.net) <etlindholm%etlindholm%etl>

>
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: _amelyachtowners@amelyachtowname_
(mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com) <amelyachtowners%amelyachtownerame>

Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:12 PM
David, I actually read a study where the results showed that there was
less drag with the prop freewheeling, no alternator, like you said,
rather

than locked. I also agree that this goes against everything I have ever
heard. Even after reading the article, I have a very difficult time
believing it. If I can find it I will post it for your info, or at least
amusement. It was a study comparing all of the props available for
sailboats, and there efficiency in forward, reverse, and under sail. It
compared 2 blade, 3 blade, maxi prop, etc. Eric maramu 105
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, David Mackintosh <_dlm48@aol.com_
(mailto:dlm48@aol.com) <dlm48%40aol.dlm>>

wrote:
From: David Mackintosh <_dlm48@aol.com_ (mailto:dlm48@aol.com)
<dlm48%40aol.dlm>>

Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:41 AM
YES and NO there is theory and there is practice.... ...on my O461 the
boat

IS faster by up to a knot (unless you are at hull speed with plenty of
wind)
if you let the prop free wheel and i know this is contrary to scientific
theory...i guess the prop is uneducated. I have discovered that this is
the

case on quite a few boats i have sailed too - so this is not a one off
phenomenon.
Driving a shaft generator would i 'think' cause more drag - as you dont
get

nothing for nothing - and the energy to drive that alternator has to come
from somewhere. However if you have an excess of sail power you 'might'
not

see a decrease in boat speed which after all is all that matters. I am
ignoring wear and noise issues (for the pedantic).
regards
David
2009/5/3 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>
>
Ettore and Silvana,
>
You are defying the laws of physics and hydrodynamics if you really
think

the shaft alternator does not slow the boat down. In fact the turning
propeller acts almost like a disc. It generated more resistance than it
would if it was stationary. I would use one if it was already installed
but
I would not go out of my way to install a speed brake like that. There
are
some solutions in the form of a unit that is deployed from the transom.
One
of my neighbors used one to and from Hawaii and it generated
electricity

quite well.
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com<
arcadinoesailing % 40hotmail. com>>
wrote:
From: Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com< arcadinoesailing %
40hotmail. com>
> Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 9:43 AM
>
Hi David and Hazel,
>
We use the shaft driven alternator in our Mango with much satisfaction.
>
No reduction the speed on sailing.
It will give 7/9 amp when running at 7/8 knots.
>
It don't works down 4 knots.
Very very important: if you have Hurth gearbox or similar, is
imperative

to
>
run the motor half our every 12 ours, to lubricate the gearbox because
r

>
shaft running isn't enaugh to lubricate the interior of the gearbox: if
the
>
motor is not on, is easy to break the interior disks of the gearbox.
Now our Mango is independent for the electriciy of Marina: 2 solar
panel

and 1 wind generator is perfectly.
> With 15/20 wind knots We have cooking the pizza in the electric four
at

220v!!!
Ettore & Silvana of Arca di Noè
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: "David and Hazel Worthington" <spritoaffine@ yahoo.co. uk>
>
To: <amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:43 PM
>
Subject: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
Hi All
Due to the charges being imposed by marina operators now for
electricity
in the Med I have been considering various options to allow free
battery
charging
>
Our rattly Max Prop needs rebuilding and I was wondering about
replacing
it with a standard fixed prop in order to use the propshaft
alternator

but
>
am concerned about loss of speed and increase in noise when sailing,
does
>
anyone still use their prop driven alternator or has everyone turned
to

solar and wind power instead. I understand we would need a 19 inch
prop

but am not sure whether the 13 mentioned is inches or degrees of
pitch.

Our aft cabin is too noisy to sleep in on passage due to
propshaft/cutless
> bearing noise even after replacing the cutless bearing, is this
normal?

Also would we go backwards straighter with the Max Prop or a fixed
prop?
we don't have a bow thruster
> Your opinions would be appreciated
>
David and Hazel Sharki 148
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










__________________________________________________________
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Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

G D <maramu@...>
 

Last but not the least. I wont bother you with rocket science or nuclear physic as I'm not an engineer. So I can tell you that when I engage the prop shaft driven alternator, I loose around half a knot when I'm between 5 and 9 knots
Again this has nothing to do with hydrodynamic theory or fluid mechanic, it is simply a true fact of sailing.
Best regards to all
Erick
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: maramu@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 07:09:59 +0200
Subject: RE: [Amel] shaft driven alternator




























Dear All

I truly agree with David, a Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator and in fact not many people know that. I use a Max prop with an alternator fited by amel. It works perfectly well, provided that you do the following

1 Start the engine and run it at idle,

2 While under sail, engage the reverse and accelerate slowly untill the gearbox is well engaged, you should hear a kind of "Klong"

3 While still runing the engine at idle with the reverse engaged under sail, turn on the alternator switch.

4 Bring back the Morse stick to neutral,(you will fell some kind of resistance)

5 Turn off the engine and .........................your power plant is on runing with a max prop.

I have been using this method for the past 10 years and it works perfectly well, generating plentifull Amps. By eight knots, I manage to cover my heavy consumption.

In addition I have fited an Air wind turbine on the mizzaine mast which worls perfectly well.

Regards to all

Erick



To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

From: dlm48@aol.com

Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 23:35:45 +0100

Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator



Dave you are missing the point either deliberately or not.



IF you have an excess of HP from your sails and you are at hull speed and



pushing the envelope on the displacement drag curve with say 150/200 or more



HP coming off your sails on an Amel fully powered up - any drag from a prop



driving a shaft alternator is totally unimportant and incidental. As a



multiple disciplined engineer i can categorically prove mathematically that



a fixed bladed prop has less drag when held stationary than one that is



allowed to rotate 'freely' under the influence of the boats motion. HOWEVER



i have proven to myself that the actuality of this - the theory does not



work in practice - for 20 or more years i sailed with the prop stopped with



the engine in gear until i was doing a delivery trip with the owner on board



on a Privilege 37 Cat he had left the props free wheeling and when i stopped



them when i came on watch he came back on deck and explained that the boat



was faster with the props freewheeling. As i knew and could prove



empirically this was not the case i argued the point until he proved to me



that my expert opinion was rubbish. Why you would introduce folding or



feathering props into this topic - i truly dont understand - also fixed



props dont slow a boat down feathering or folding props are go-faster bits



of kit.



So to summarise



IF you have enough sail power to get hull speed then you wont notice any



drag from a prop shaft driven alternator.



IN every boat i have sailed and tested allowing the prop to rotate is less



draggy and is a faster way to sail than keeping it stopped.



A feathering or folding prop has less drag than a fixed bladed prop



A Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator



(not many people know that)



regards



David



2009/5/4 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@yahoo.com>







Eric,




My professional background is in aviation and props in the water and props


in the air have some similarities. Air and water are both fluids albeit


water is a much denser medium. Also the laws of physics come into play.


Anotherwords the prop is not freewheeling since the generator places a load


on it. You cannot extract energy from the water in the form of a prop


generator without creating friction. People can believe what they want to


believe. The laws of physics and hydrodynamics will still apply. The only


way to really reduce the prop drag penalty is with a feathering or folding


prop which is precisely why the racing rules give credits for a fixed prop.


The handicappers know the fixed prop will slow a boat down and give a 3


second or 6 second per mile credit for it.




--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net<etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>>


wrote:




From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net <etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>






Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator


To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>


Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:12 PM






David, I actually read a study where the results showed that there was


less drag with the prop freewheeling, no alternator, like you said, rather


than locked. I also agree that this goes against everything I have ever


heard. Even after reading the article, I have a very difficult time


believing it. If I can find it I will post it for your info, or at least


amusement. It was a study comparing all of the props available for


sailboats, and there efficiency in forward, reverse, and under sail. It


compared 2 blade, 3 blade, maxi prop, etc. Eric maramu 105




--- On Mon, 5/4/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>


wrote:




From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>




Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator




To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com




Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:41 AM




YES and NO there is theory and there is practice.... ...on my O461 the boat




IS faster by up to a knot (unless you are at hull speed with plenty of


wind)




if you let the prop free wheel and i know this is contrary to scientific




theory...i guess the prop is uneducated. I have discovered that this is the




case on quite a few boats i have sailed too - so this is not a one off




phenomenon.




Driving a shaft generator would i 'think' cause more drag - as you dont get




nothing for nothing - and the energy to drive that alternator has to come




from somewhere. However if you have an excess of sail power you 'might' not




see a decrease in boat speed which after all is all that matters. I am




ignoring wear and noise issues (for the pedantic).




regards




David




2009/5/3 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>












Ettore and Silvana,








You are defying the laws of physics and hydrodynamics if you really think




the shaft alternator does not slow the boat down. In fact the turning




propeller acts almost like a disc. It generated more resistance than it




would if it was stationary. I would use one if it was already installed


but




I would not go out of my way to install a speed brake like that. There


are




some solutions in the form of a unit that is deployed from the transom.


One




of my neighbors used one to and from Hawaii and it generated electricity




quite well.








--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com<


arcadinoesailing % 40hotmail. com>>




wrote:








From: Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com< arcadinoesailing %


40hotmail. com>








Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator




To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.


com>




Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 9:43 AM












Hi David and Hazel,








We use the shaft driven alternator in our Mango with much satisfaction.








No reduction the speed on sailing.








It will give 7/9 amp when running at 7/8 knots.








It don't works down 4 knots.








Very very important: if you have Hurth gearbox or similar, is imperative


to












run the motor half our every 12 ours, to lubricate the gearbox because r








shaft running isn't enaugh to lubricate the interior of the gearbox: if


the












motor is not on, is easy to break the interior disks of the gearbox.








Now our Mango is independent for the electriciy of Marina: 2 solar panel








and 1 wind generator is perfectly.








With 15/20 wind knots We have cooking the pizza in the electric four at








220v!!!








Ettore & Silvana of Arca di Noè








----- Original Message -----








From: "David and Hazel Worthington" <spritoaffine@ yahoo.co. uk>








To: <amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com>








Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:43 PM








Subject: [Amel] shaft driven alternator








Hi All








Due to the charges being imposed by marina operators now for


electricity








in the Med I have been considering various options to allow free


battery








charging
















Our rattly Max Prop needs rebuilding and I was wondering about


replacing








it with a standard fixed prop in order to use the propshaft alternator




but








am concerned about loss of speed and increase in noise when sailing,


does












anyone still use their prop driven alternator or has everyone turned to








solar and wind power instead. I understand we would need a 19 inch prop








but am not sure whether the 13 mentioned is inches or degrees of pitch.








Our aft cabin is too noisy to sleep in on passage due to




propshaft/cutless








bearing noise even after replacing the cutless bearing, is this normal?








Also would we go backwards straighter with the Max Prop or a fixed


prop?








we don't have a bow thruster








Your opinions would be appreciated








David and Hazel Sharki 148
































------------ --------- --------- ------
















Yahoo! Groups Links
















































































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]












































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





















__________________________________________________________

Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx


























_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx


Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

G D <maramu@...>
 

Dear All
I truly agree with David, a Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator and in fact not many people know that. I use a Max prop with an alternator fited by amel. It works perfectly well, provided that you do the following
1 Start the engine and run it at idle,
2 While under sail, engage the reverse and accelerate slowly untill the gearbox is well engaged, you should hear a kind of "Klong"
3 While still runing the engine at idle with the reverse engaged under sail, turn on the alternator switch.
4 Bring back the Morse stick to neutral,(you will fell some kind of resistance)
5 Turn off the engine and .........................your power plant is on runing with a max prop.
I have been using this method for the past 10 years and it works perfectly well, generating plentifull Amps. By eight knots, I manage to cover my heavy consumption.
In addition I have fited an Air wind turbine on the mizzaine mast which worls perfectly well.
Regards to all
Erick

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
From: dlm48@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 23:35:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator


























Dave you are missing the point either deliberately or not.



IF you have an excess of HP from your sails and you are at hull speed and

pushing the envelope on the displacement drag curve with say 150/200 or more

HP coming off your sails on an Amel fully powered up - any drag from a prop

driving a shaft alternator is totally unimportant and incidental. As a

multiple disciplined engineer i can categorically prove mathematically that

a fixed bladed prop has less drag when held stationary than one that is

allowed to rotate 'freely' under the influence of the boats motion. HOWEVER

i have proven to myself that the actuality of this - the theory does not

work in practice - for 20 or more years i sailed with the prop stopped with

the engine in gear until i was doing a delivery trip with the owner on board

on a Privilege 37 Cat he had left the props free wheeling and when i stopped

them when i came on watch he came back on deck and explained that the boat

was faster with the props freewheeling. As i knew and could prove

empirically this was not the case i argued the point until he proved to me

that my expert opinion was rubbish. Why you would introduce folding or

feathering props into this topic - i truly dont understand - also fixed

props dont slow a boat down feathering or folding props are go-faster bits

of kit.



So to summarise



IF you have enough sail power to get hull speed then you wont notice any

drag from a prop shaft driven alternator.



IN every boat i have sailed and tested allowing the prop to rotate is less

draggy and is a faster way to sail than keeping it stopped.



A feathering or folding prop has less drag than a fixed bladed prop



A Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator

(not many people know that)



regards



David



2009/5/4 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@yahoo.com>



Eric,
My professional background is in aviation and props in the water and props
in the air have some similarities. Air and water are both fluids albeit
water is a much denser medium. Also the laws of physics come into play.
Anotherwords the prop is not freewheeling since the generator places a load
on it. You cannot extract energy from the water in the form of a prop
generator without creating friction. People can believe what they want to
believe. The laws of physics and hydrodynamics will still apply. The only
way to really reduce the prop drag penalty is with a feathering or folding
prop which is precisely why the racing rules give credits for a fixed prop.
The handicappers know the fixed prop will slow a boat down and give a 3
second or 6 second per mile credit for it.
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net<etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>>
wrote:
From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net <etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:12 PM
David, I actually read a study where the results showed that there was
less drag with the prop freewheeling, no alternator, like you said, rather
than locked. I also agree that this goes against everything I have ever
heard. Even after reading the article, I have a very difficult time
believing it. If I can find it I will post it for your info, or at least
amusement. It was a study comparing all of the props available for
sailboats, and there efficiency in forward, reverse, and under sail. It
compared 2 blade, 3 blade, maxi prop, etc. Eric maramu 105
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>
wrote:
From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:41 AM
YES and NO there is theory and there is practice.... ...on my O461 the boat
IS faster by up to a knot (unless you are at hull speed with plenty of
wind)
if you let the prop free wheel and i know this is contrary to scientific
theory...i guess the prop is uneducated. I have discovered that this is the
case on quite a few boats i have sailed too - so this is not a one off
phenomenon.
Driving a shaft generator would i 'think' cause more drag - as you dont get
nothing for nothing - and the energy to drive that alternator has to come
from somewhere. However if you have an excess of sail power you 'might' not
see a decrease in boat speed which after all is all that matters. I am
ignoring wear and noise issues (for the pedantic).
regards
David
2009/5/3 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>
Ettore and Silvana,
You are defying the laws of physics and hydrodynamics if you really think
the shaft alternator does not slow the boat down. In fact the turning
propeller acts almost like a disc. It generated more resistance than it
would if it was stationary. I would use one if it was already installed
but
I would not go out of my way to install a speed brake like that. There
are
some solutions in the form of a unit that is deployed from the transom.
One
of my neighbors used one to and from Hawaii and it generated electricity
quite well.
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com<
arcadinoesailing % 40hotmail. com>>
wrote:
From: Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com< arcadinoesailing %
40hotmail. com>
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 9:43 AM
Hi David and Hazel,
We use the shaft driven alternator in our Mango with much satisfaction.
No reduction the speed on sailing.
It will give 7/9 amp when running at 7/8 knots.
It don't works down 4 knots.
Very very important: if you have Hurth gearbox or similar, is imperative
to
run the motor half our every 12 ours, to lubricate the gearbox because r
shaft running isn't enaugh to lubricate the interior of the gearbox: if
the
motor is not on, is easy to break the interior disks of the gearbox.
Now our Mango is independent for the electriciy of Marina: 2 solar panel
and 1 wind generator is perfectly.
With 15/20 wind knots We have cooking the pizza in the electric four at
220v!!!
Ettore & Silvana of Arca di Noè
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Hazel Worthington" <spritoaffine@ yahoo.co. uk>
To: <amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:43 PM
Subject: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
Hi All
Due to the charges being imposed by marina operators now for
electricity
in the Med I have been considering various options to allow free
battery
charging
Our rattly Max Prop needs rebuilding and I was wondering about
replacing
it with a standard fixed prop in order to use the propshaft alternator
but
am concerned about loss of speed and increase in noise when sailing,
does
anyone still use their prop driven alternator or has everyone turned to
solar and wind power instead. I understand we would need a 19 inch prop
but am not sure whether the 13 mentioned is inches or degrees of pitch.
Our aft cabin is too noisy to sleep in on passage due to
propshaft/cutless
bearing noise even after replacing the cutless bearing, is this normal?
Also would we go backwards straighter with the Max Prop or a fixed
prop?
we don't have a bow thruster
Your opinions would be appreciated
David and Hazel Sharki 148
------------ --------- --------- ------
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Re: Amel Euros 39 Repairs

matt
 

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "matt" <russisland@...> wrote:

Hi All:)
Please check my new photos in album 'SV.Darien'-this is example of the
bad repairs from the past...Hull area shows lots of osmosis 'patched'
with all sorts of materials eg. epoxy, polyester, vinylester..and the
car bog??!
The plan is to let the hull dry for aprox. 3 months until the moisture
level reach 2-3%.
Then fill up the bad areas and previously repaired spots with
cabosil/vinylester putty. After sending smooth will go 2 layers of
450g. biaxial cloth with vinyl ester following 2 layers of 6oz. cloth
with epoxy. This 2 last layers will go over/under the steel keel shoe which should give peace of mind about keel bolts condition(just can't
locate them).
All underwater area will be then smooth with microballoons/epoxy.
This should make this hull strong and problem free.
Can anyone add any comments or suggestion to this plan?
Best Regards to All.
Fair Winds
Magic
S.V.Darien
Amel Euros #88
Hi again,

Please check my photo folder: SV DARIEN for the new photos.

Due to the wet weather the progress is very, very slow but you can find few 'interesting things' below the waterline once the gelcoat has been removed ages ago.

From the photos, you can also learn all the 'truth' about boat building...eg. different materials, wrong applications and potential 'time bombs' waiting when you out there on the 'blue'.

Please comment and leave your feedback.

I shall post more "discovery's" soon as I get to the 'famous' fuel tanks leak on Euros design..

Until then I wish you all a step of water under the keel:)

Magic
S.V.Darien
Amel Euros #88


Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

David Mackintosh <dlm48@...>
 

Dave you are missing the point either deliberately or not.

IF you have an excess of HP from your sails and you are at hull speed and
pushing the envelope on the displacement drag curve with say 150/200 or more
HP coming off your sails on an Amel fully powered up - any drag from a prop
driving a shaft alternator is totally unimportant and incidental. As a
multiple disciplined engineer i can categorically prove mathematically that
a fixed bladed prop has less drag when held stationary than one that is
allowed to rotate 'freely' under the influence of the boats motion. HOWEVER
i have proven to myself that the actuality of this - the theory does not
work in practice - for 20 or more years i sailed with the prop stopped with
the engine in gear until i was doing a delivery trip with the owner on board
on a Privilege 37 Cat he had left the props free wheeling and when i stopped
them when i came on watch he came back on deck and explained that the boat
was faster with the props freewheeling. As i knew and could prove
empirically this was not the case i argued the point until he proved to me
that my expert opinion was rubbish. Why you would introduce folding or
feathering props into this topic - i truly dont understand - also fixed
props dont slow a boat down feathering or folding props are go-faster bits
of kit.

So to summarise

IF you have enough sail power to get hull speed then you wont notice any
drag from a prop shaft driven alternator.

IN every boat i have sailed and tested allowing the prop to rotate is less
draggy and is a faster way to sail than keeping it stopped.

A feathering or folding prop has less drag than a fixed bladed prop

A Max Prop can be manipulated so that it will drive a prop shaft alternator
(not many people know that)

regards

David


2009/5/4 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@yahoo.com>



Eric,

My professional background is in aviation and props in the water and props
in the air have some similarities. Air and water are both fluids albeit
water is a much denser medium. Also the laws of physics come into play.
Anotherwords the prop is not freewheeling since the generator places a load
on it. You cannot extract energy from the water in the form of a prop
generator without creating friction. People can believe what they want to
believe. The laws of physics and hydrodynamics will still apply. The only
way to really reduce the prop drag penalty is with a feathering or folding
prop which is precisely why the racing rules give credits for a fixed prop.
The handicappers know the fixed prop will slow a boat down and give a 3
second or 6 second per mile credit for it.

--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net<etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>>
wrote:

From: Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@sbcglobal.net <etlindholm%40sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 2:12 PM


David, I actually read a study where the results showed that there was
less drag with the prop freewheeling, no alternator, like you said, rather
than locked. I also agree that this goes against everything I have ever
heard. Even after reading the article, I have a very difficult time
believing it. If I can find it I will post it for your info, or at least
amusement. It was a study comparing all of the props available for
sailboats, and there efficiency in forward, reverse, and under sail. It
compared 2 blade, 3 blade, maxi prop, etc. Eric maramu 105

--- On Mon, 5/4/09, David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>
wrote:

From: David Mackintosh <dlm48@aol.com <dlm48%40aol.com>>

Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator

To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:41 AM

YES and NO there is theory and there is practice.... ...on my O461 the boat

IS faster by up to a knot (unless you are at hull speed with plenty of
wind)

if you let the prop free wheel and i know this is contrary to scientific

theory...i guess the prop is uneducated. I have discovered that this is the

case on quite a few boats i have sailed too - so this is not a one off

phenomenon.

Driving a shaft generator would i 'think' cause more drag - as you dont get

nothing for nothing - and the energy to drive that alternator has to come

from somewhere. However if you have an excess of sail power you 'might' not

see a decrease in boat speed which after all is all that matters. I am

ignoring wear and noise issues (for the pedantic).

regards

David

2009/5/3 Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ yahoo.com>

Ettore and Silvana,
You are defying the laws of physics and hydrodynamics if you really think
the shaft alternator does not slow the boat down. In fact the turning
propeller acts almost like a disc. It generated more resistance than it
would if it was stationary. I would use one if it was already installed
but

I would not go out of my way to install a speed brake like that. There
are

some solutions in the form of a unit that is deployed from the transom.
One

of my neighbors used one to and from Hawaii and it generated electricity
quite well.
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com<
arcadinoesailing % 40hotmail. com>>

wrote:
From: Arca di Noè <arcadinoesailing@ hotmail.com< arcadinoesailing %
40hotmail. com>

Subject: Re: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com <amelyachtowners% 40yahoogroups.
com>

Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 9:43 AM
Hi David and Hazel,
We use the shaft driven alternator in our Mango with much satisfaction.
No reduction the speed on sailing.
It will give 7/9 amp when running at 7/8 knots.
It don't works down 4 knots.
Very very important: if you have Hurth gearbox or similar, is imperative
to

run the motor half our every 12 ours, to lubricate the gearbox because r
shaft running isn't enaugh to lubricate the interior of the gearbox: if
the

motor is not on, is easy to break the interior disks of the gearbox.
Now our Mango is independent for the electriciy of Marina: 2 solar panel
and 1 wind generator is perfectly.
With 15/20 wind knots We have cooking the pizza in the electric four at
220v!!!
Ettore & Silvana of Arca di Noè
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Hazel Worthington" <spritoaffine@ yahoo.co. uk>
To: <amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:43 PM
Subject: [Amel] shaft driven alternator
Hi All
Due to the charges being imposed by marina operators now for
electricity

in the Med I have been considering various options to allow free
battery

charging
Our rattly Max Prop needs rebuilding and I was wondering about
replacing

it with a standard fixed prop in order to use the propshaft alternator
but
am concerned about loss of speed and increase in noise when sailing,
does

anyone still use their prop driven alternator or has everyone turned to
solar and wind power instead. I understand we would need a 19 inch prop
but am not sure whether the 13 mentioned is inches or degrees of pitch.
Our aft cabin is too noisy to sleep in on passage due to
propshaft/cutless
bearing noise even after replacing the cutless bearing, is this normal?
Also would we go backwards straighter with the Max Prop or a fixed
prop?

we don't have a bow thruster
Your opinions would be appreciated
David and Hazel Sharki 148
------------ --------- --------- ------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]