Date   
Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54

Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Craig, dear Scott, dear Olivier,

thx a lot for all your fast responses, thoughts and hints, specially to you Olivier, for explaining the 100A fuses.
I already wrote to Maud and hope she will give me a fast response.
The next mechanic I will meet in 2.5 weeks. I will let him check the (old) gear box.

Best regards to all 
Stefan
A 54 N°119 Lady Charlyette, currently Leixos/ Porto

Re: start stop engine

Sebti Lamya
 

Hi to All,

These are the pictures of the two relays that seem causing the problem.

Noreddine and Lamya Sebti

SV Alma Libre, SM 370, Greece, Kalamata

Re: start stop engine

Sebti Lamya
 

Hi to All,

My boat is a SM , hull number 370 from 2002. the engine is a Yanmar 4JH3-HTE. I am actually in Greece, Kalamata Marina.

Regards.

Noreddine Sebti
Name of boat : Alma Libre

Re: start stop engine

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Lamya,

Welcome to this forum; you should receive a reply soon.... but how can anyone give you good advice with the information you shared? No boat model, engine... 

This site is private and new members are vested by Moderators before inclusion.  Members normally add name, type of Amel (Eros, Mango etc) and hull number.  Most people will include their location.

Welcome!

Jean-Pierre Germain, SY Eleuthera, SM 007, Fiji


On 22 Aug 2019, at 20:32, Sebti Lamya <noreddine.sebti@...> wrote:

I am unable to stop the engine with the switch button in the cockpit
I have to use the manual stop button (red one ) inside the engine.
Despite having changed the relay (solenoid ??) and the switch button on the helm, no technician have been able to find the solution. It seems that the small relay that control the big relay that connects the minus is taking two contradictory messages : to start and to stop.

Do you have any idea or recommendation.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Stefan,

the 100A fuse is a back-up when the power limiting Printed Circuit Board (what you call the Protector) is out of order. In order to connect this fuse, you need to remove both wires from the PCB (just pulling down) and connect them to the 100A fuse.

There seems to be a mechanic problem in the boom gear-box. And therefore, the PCB allows the motor to run for a few seconds, then cuts off power because of too high amperage (that's what it's designed for).
If you connect the back-up fuse, you may blow it within some seconds too because the mechanic resistance is too high, making the amperage rise above 100 A (you may also burn the wires too!!).

It seems that you need to take down the gear-box and open it to check the worm gear and the bronze "teeth wheel".
If you can't find a good skilled mechanic where you are, you may think of just replacing the gear-box (I don't like when you say the shaft went out of the gear-box...).

Good luck and remember to never hit the track end stopper with the traveller. This definitely kills the gear-box after several knocks.


Olivier

start stop engine

Sebti Lamya
 

I am unable to stop the engine with the switch button in the cockpit
I have to use the manual stop button (red one ) inside the engine.
Despite having changed the relay (solenoid ??) and the switch button on the helm, no technician have been able to find the solution. It seems that the small relay that control the big relay that connects the minus is taking two contradictory messages : to start and to stop.

Do you have any idea or recommendation.

Thanks in advance.

Black water comes from Onan 11 exhaust hose

Jose Alegria
 

Dear AMEL Group / Owners
I appreciate your ideas about the reason I have black water comes from my onan 11 raw water exhaust hose 
And from exhaust fumes too  ( less quantity )
The Onan was 1200 hours and was serviced at 100 hours
Thanks in advance

)

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Stefano Biffi
 

Normally quiet stable, never gave me wrong. I learned to use pause when I don’t need, long navigation no obstacles, and start  the reading few minutes before the cost line. If I must find a complaint the auto scale feature not ever following approaching the high terrain. Most of the time I have to reduce manually. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 23:56, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

Stefano , That is the unit I have. Do you not get a lot of false signals ,both vertical and horizontal ? If not then there must be something wrong with my unit.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Biffi <cptbiffi@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

I have ZEUS 2 With foward looking, works nice, helpful in low water. During the docking I can estimate how deep is below and how far is the other lip of the Harbour. Never used between submerged rocks, till now. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 16:02, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Wintering location Adriatic

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello everyone;

We are looking for recommendations for a safe berth in the Adriatic to leave Kokomo for this winter season. We do not stay on board for the winter. Any and all recommendations will be appreciated.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
AMEL 54 #099

Re: Amel Mango Emergency Tiller Storage Location

Charles Bell
 

Perfect!

A million thank you's Dan!

Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54

Scott SV Tengah
 

I agree, it sounds like the outhaul gearbox. I had the same failure a year ago and the symptoms were very similar to yours.

Mine had seawater mixed in with a bit of grease - I found this out when I tried to re-grease it, but it was too late, the gearbox was dead. Contact Maud at Amel and she'll sort you out. They didn't make my gearbox anymore, but with a lot of pictures, Maud figured out how to send me a current model that would work. 

PS - When I first got it, I was certain it was the wrong gearbox. A bit more playing around and I figured out that the spacer that was used for the old gearbox was not used with the new one. For better or worse, the new gearbox is sealed with gear oil.

Good luck.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Peter de Groot
 

La Querida (SM 207) got the Garmin panoptix 3 months ago
So far so good, but we’re not cruising until fall of 2020, so it’s only seen short trips.
A crew member actually watched the anchor go down on our last overnight excursion
My biggest concern now is the next time we haul out, the transducer is very vulnerable to the lift sling
Has anyone got a better (drier) technique to exchange the transducer with the 40mm plug?

Peter de Groot
Moss Landing, California

Re: Amel Mango Emergency Tiller Storage Location

Dan
 

image1.jpeg

Re: Amel Mango Emergency Tiller Storage Location

Charles Bell
 

Ok, I went and did some looking.

In Mango #29, above the pilot berth, there is no shelf.



So I will follow Dan's advice and see if they will fit in the forward port berth, either under the berth or on the self above the berth.

Thank you for the help everyone! I will report back after I take a look at the forward port berth.


Charles

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Patrick McAneny
 

Jose, I agree with Ken as well,that is why I spent probably over $1000. ,I can't remember the exact amount. But for me it has been a total waste of money and would not advise anyone to buy the B&G unit ,unless I find a fix ,if you do please report back. We took video of the erratic images ,maybe we will send it to B&G .
Good Luck,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jose Venegas via Groups.Io <josegvenegas@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

Patrick,
I installed a B&G sonar and I have similar erratic signals.  I think we need to find out why from B&G.  At anchor, it seems to work fine except that it can be confused by reflections from the chain.  While on the way, it can give you a good signal for a while and the start with total garbage.  Now that I know you have the same problem, I will go back and try to work the kinks with B&G.
I agree with Ken that a forward scanner should be very useful in remote places.

Jose
Ipanema SM278
Boston until October, then is the world.

Re: Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

HI Stefan,
Wow! This sounds like a good mystery!
I have inserted my thoughts in your post below in Red Type.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 03:55 PM, Stefan Schaufert wrote:
Dear AMEL Group/ Owners,

our main sail outhaul (gearbox) stopped 2 days ago just in the moment the main was completely furled in.
First we thought it is a kind of end-switch that stoped it and does not release.  No, there is no end-switch (like the one on your bow thruster - good guess, but not the cause)
But it never worked again. (It will!  It will ! :-)
Today I checked the entire system:
- by switching there is a clicking, thus the relays + switches are working Yes, that should be true. However, the low current electromagnet in the relay (contactor) could be OK and give you a "click" but the high voltage contacts could be bad and no current would go to the motor.  I think that is unlikely, so let's keep going.
- I changed/swapped the cables from the mast furler with the boom outhaul (on the breakers, the current protectors and the relays): mast furler is working, boom not. So the problem must be in the boom, not the mast, is what I think this means.  
- I checked the gear box: the shaft (I guess with the worm drive - I can not open the box.) was about 1cm out of the gear box (the cover was kicked out - see picture with marking) + fully blocked. OMG!! that's horrible - sounds like a REALLY bad gear box!  But let's keep going.
Was/Is the gear box broken or is it a safety thing? Gear box - there is no safety thing, definitely.
I pushed the shaft slowly (with a small hammer and a protector) back + put the cover on, then the shaft was turning again well and easy. Cool!
- I checked the motor: brushes are still very well (very good :-), power comes, the motor turns (when not connected with the gear box AND when the cables on the current-protectors (What is the right name?) (I think you mean the "relays" or also called "contactors" ) - see picture - are swapped). The motor turns not, when the current protectors are default connected (boom to boom, mast to mast). This is the boom motor, not the mast motor (which is OK) - correct?
- OK. I connected the motor (the boom outhaul motor, right?) again with the gearbox (current protectors still swapped). Motor turns short and stops, then trying to turn but does not make it. This really sounds like it's the gear-box (reductore in Italian, or reducing gear). 
- Swapped the cables for the current-protectors back (boom to boom, mast to mast). Mast is working, boom not (only the relay is clicking). Is it "trying" to turn, but stopping immediately? That is what it seems to me from reading your post.
But why is the mast furler working with the boom-current-protector and not the boom itself? It seems that is because the mast motor and gear are OK but the boom gearbox is preventing the boom motor from turning? The boom motor is trying to turn with electricity from either the boom relay or the mast relay. It can't turn when it is connected to the boom reduction gear because that gear is bad.  That is what it seems to me at this point - I may be wrong.
And, btw: there are 2 spare breakers 100A, but no slot for it??? I don't know about that - maybe they are just spares.

Now I do not know:
Is it only the current-protector I would guess that is not the problem
or 
the gear box too That seems like the problem to me.
or 
the motor (which is looking very well)Because both motors run fine without their gearboxes attached, they both seem OK.  Unless I did not understand something.
Or all of it? 
 
I am looking forward for your help and really appreciate it.
 
Best regards
Stefan
A54 N°119 Lady Charlyette, currently Leixoes/Porto

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Jose Venegas
 

Patrick,
I installed a B&G sonar and I have similar erratic signals.  I think we need to find out why from B&G.  At anchor, it seems to work fine except that it can be confused by reflections from the chain.  While on the way, it can give you a good signal for a while and the start with total garbage.  Now that I know you have the same problem, I will go back and try to work the kinks with B&G.
I agree with Ken that a forward scanner should be very useful in remote places.

Jose
Ipanema SM278
Boston until October, then is the world.

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Alan Leslie
 

Our Interphase unit died....well the transducer did, and we couldn't get one so I installed a B&G Vulcan 7 with ForwardScan in its place.
The ForwardScan is very susceptible to boat movement, I think this is what leads to the "false images" . It seems to work well in calm water and at low speed. If there is any up and down  movement of the boat, the image will not be useful as the device can't compensate for that.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Re: Forward Looking Sonar

Patrick McAneny
 

Stefano , That is the unit I have. Do you not get a lot of false signals ,both vertical and horizontal ? If not then there must be something wrong with my unit.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Biffi <cptbiffi@...>
To: main <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

I have ZEUS 2 With foward looking, works nice, helpful in low water. During the docking I can estimate how deep is below and how far is the other lip of the Harbour. Never used between submerged rocks, till now. 

Stefano
N’EVEREST Super Maramu 185
Italy 

Il giorno 21 ago 2019, alle ore 16:02, Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io <sailw32@...> ha scritto:

When we replaced all our electronic due to lightning damage ,we went with the latest B&G equipment,including forward looking sonar. We had Interphase prior and for me it was like trying to read a ultrasound . The B&G sonar sends false images of things that do not exist ,with the bottom going up and down and what looks like walls showing and then disappearing . These false signals have instilled no confidence to the point I never turn it on and at this point I consider a big waste of money. It was professionally installed and I have spoken to the installer as well as B&G reps. at the boat show , I have gotten no answers . I got to the point that I assume this is the state of the art ,when it comes to sonar. 
But after reading what a few of you have said about your sonar,which are older than mine ,I am convinced that something is wrong with my unit. Does anyone have B&G forward looking sonar ,how is it working for you, false images ?
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2019 1:36 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward Looking Sonar

We have the Interphase forward looking sonar on our A54 and use it often. It's not perfect, but definitely useful.

As Ken noted, we often use it to scope out the surrounding depths to account for any swinging. And more than once it has showed us that the charts aren't perfect and given us time to go astern hard to avoid a collision with an uncharted obstacle.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Main sail Outhaul motor/gearbox failed A54

Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear AMEL Group/ Owners,

our main sail outhaul (gearbox) stopped 2 days ago just in the moment the main was completely furled in.
First we thought it is a kind of end-switch that stoped it and does not release.
But it never worked again.
Today I checked the entire system:
- by switching there is a clicking, thus the relays + switches are working
- I changed/swapped the cables from the mast furler with the boom outhaul (on the breakers, the current protectors and the relays): mast furler is working, boom not.
- I checked the gear box: the shaft (I guess with the worm drive - I can not open the box.) was about 1cm out of the gear box (the cover was kicked out - see picture with marking) + fully blocked. 
Was/Is the gear box broken or is it a safety thing? 
I pushed the shaft slowly (with a small hammer and a protector) back + put the cover on, then the shaft was turning again well and easy.
- I checked the motor: brushes are still very well, power comes, the motor turns (when not connected with the gear box AND when the cables on the current-protectors (What is the right name?) - see picture - are swapped). The motor turns not, when the current protectors are default connected (boom to boom, mast to mast).
- OK. I connected the motor again with the gearbox (current protectors still swapped). Motor turns short and stops, then trying to turn but does not make it.
- Swapped the cables for the current-protectors back (boom to boom, mast to mast). Mast is working, boom not (only the relay is clicking). 
But why is the mast furler working with the boom-current-protector and not the boom itself?
And, btw: there are 2 spare breakers 100A, but no slot for it???

Now I do not know:
Is it only the current-protector 
or 
the gear box too 
or 
the motor (which is looking very well)
Or all of it? 
 
I am looking forward for your help and really appreciate it.
 
Best regards
Stefan
A54 N°119 Lady Charlyette, currently Leixoes/Porto