Hi All

Has anyone retrofitted in a Satorin, a simiar designed holding
tank to the one fitted in the SM2000. I was impressed with >the

simplicity of the design with the tank sitting over the outlet >valve.
Joe McDonnell, Khamsin B


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Willem J. Kroes"
<willem.j.kroes@...> wrote:

I had the same problem this year, but for the first time in 4 years,
afther having replaced both toilets on my Santorin 1992 (with
standard Jabsco's).
I changed the joker valve, and this cured the problem, in any case
for the rest of the season. But, when looking at the failing valve
(new in 2002), I noticed that there was a little bit of play between
the two rubber lips in crossed position. There is another (older)
type of joker valve used in the original R&M toilets, Amel fitted in
the early SM's and Santorins 15 years ago, with just one horizontal
lip. I suppose this type of joker valve will withstand the backflow
pressure better than the new type.

Best Regards,

Willem J. Kroes
Amel Santorin #69
"Kavanga"


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Udo J. Reich" udo@
wrote:

We have the same problem with our forward tank. I see two

solutions. One is

a one way valve as Gary has suggested. The other one would be to

refit the

tank so that the inflow from the bowl goes into the tank towards

the top of

the tank. Let me know if you come up with any solutions



Udo J. Reich

_____

From: amelliahona [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:52 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Head pump




Mike Ondra wrote:
" We are persistently getting backflow of waste water through the

check

valves
back into the toilet bowl, enough sometimes to fill the bowl.

Besides being

unpleasant at anchor, this can be a mess under sail."

Ian Shepherd wrote:
" I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I

have

changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little

difference."

Hi Mike and Ian:

I have had the same problem with the forward head only. I

originally

thought it was water siphoning from the fill pump side but I shut

off

the sea water supply valve while under sail and the toilet bowl

filled

with foul water anyway. It was only to a certain level and never

would

overflow the bowl so I think it was just the back flow through the
joker valve of the outflow pipe to the holding tank. Ian, like you
changing the joker valve several times and that DID NOT remedy the
situation. Also it does this with the holding tank empty or full so

I

don't think it is related to the mode of entry of the outflow pipe
into the holding tank.

I suspect that the joker vavle does not have enough strength to
withstand the pressure head of water that is in the forward head
outflow pipe. As you know this pipe is taller than the aft head pipe
and thus would have a higher head of pressure. Perhaps installing a
more robust one way valve in the outflow pipe could be a solution.
I plan to research this a bit more. Nice to know that I am not the
only one out here with this problem. Joel, do you have any thoughts
on this issue?

Kindest regards, Gary Silver S/V Liahona







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bob

Thanks for taking the trouble to post a copy of this diagram; I do in
fact already have this. What I think I need in order to complete the
specification for the MaxProp is the reduction in the gearbox. Any
ideas? If not, I guess I'll send them what I have plus your notes and
see if they can sort it out. Best thing would be if I could get a
reply from Olivier.

Regards, Roger, Mango 28 Zorba

I had the same problem this year, but for the first time in 4 years,
afther having replaced both toilets on my Santorin 1992 (with
standard Jabsco's).
I changed the joker valve, and this cured the problem, in any case
for the rest of the season. But, when looking at the failing valve
(new in 2002), I noticed that there was a little bit of play between
the two rubber lips in crossed position. There is another (older)
type of joker valve used in the original R&M toilets, Amel fitted in
the early SM's and Santorins 15 years ago, with just one horizontal
lip. I suppose this type of joker valve will withstand the backflow
pressure better than the new type.

Best Regards,

Willem J. Kroes
Amel Santorin #69
"Kavanga"


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "Udo J. Reich" <udo@...>
wrote:

We have the same problem with our forward tank. I see two

solutions. One is

a one way valve as Gary has suggested. The other one would be to

refit the

tank so that the inflow from the bowl goes into the tank towards

the top of

the tank. Let me know if you come up with any solutions



Udo J. Reich

_____

From: amelliahona [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:52 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Head pump




Mike Ondra wrote:
" We are persistently getting backflow of waste water through the

check

valves
back into the toilet bowl, enough sometimes to fill the bowl.

Besides being

unpleasant at anchor, this can be a mess under sail."

Ian Shepherd wrote:
" I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I

have

changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little

difference."

Hi Mike and Ian:

I have had the same problem with the forward head only. I

originally

thought it was water siphoning from the fill pump side but I shut

off

the sea water supply valve while under sail and the toilet bowl

filled

with foul water anyway. It was only to a certain level and never

would

overflow the bowl so I think it was just the back flow through the
joker valve of the outflow pipe to the holding tank. Ian, like you
changing the joker valve several times and that DID NOT remedy the
situation. Also it does this with the holding tank empty or full so

I

don't think it is related to the mode of entry of the outflow pipe
into the holding tank.

I suspect that the joker vavle does not have enough strength to
withstand the pressure head of water that is in the forward head
outflow pipe. As you know this pipe is taller than the aft head pipe
and thus would have a higher head of pressure. Perhaps installing a
more robust one way valve in the outflow pipe could be a solution.
I plan to research this a bit more. Nice to know that I am not the
only one out here with this problem. Joel, do you have any thoughts
on this issue?

Kindest regards, Gary Silver S/V Liahona

LADY DIVINA, SM 317, YEAR 2001, IS NOW FOR SALE.
ASKING PRICE US$336,000, DELAWARE, USA, REGISTRATION.
IMMACULATE CONDITION, LESS THAN 2000 hrs ON YANMAR DIESEL/ONAN GENSET. NEW GATEFF SAILS, DIVE COMPRESSOR + MANY EXTRAS & SPARES. READY TODAY FOR WORLD CRUISING.
NOW LYING PT. CRUZ, VENEZ.
FOR MORE INFO PLEASE CONTACT: MR. LANE MOLLER
solarconstruction@yahoo.com




---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

LADY DIVINA, SM 317, YEAR 2001, IS NOW FOR SALE.
ASKING PRICE US$336,000, DELAWARE, USA, REGISTRATION.
IMMACULATE CONDITION, LESS THAN 2000 hrs ON YANMAR DIESEL/ONAN GENSET. NEW GATEFF SAILS, DIVE COMPRESSOR + MANY EXTRAS & SPARES. READY TODAY FOR WORLD CRUISING.
NOW LYING PT. CRUZ, VENEZ.
FOR MORE INFO PLEASE CONTACT: MR. LANE MOLLER
solarconstruction@yahoo.com




---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

LADY DIVINA, SM 317, YEAR 2001, IS NOW FOR SALE.
ASKING PRICE US$336,000, DELAWARE, USA, REGISTRATION.
IMMACULATE CONDITION, LESS THAN 2000 hrs ON YANMAR DIESEL/ONAN GENSET. NEW GATEFF SAILS, DIVE COMPRESSOR + MANY EXTRAS & SPARES. READY TODAY FOR WORLD CRUISING.
NOW LYING PT. CRUZ, VENEZ.
FOR MORE INFO PLEASE CONTACT: MR. LANE MOLLER
solarconstruction@yahoo.com




---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have the same problem with our forward tank. I see two solutions. One is
a one way valve as Gary has suggested. The other one would be to refit the
tank so that the inflow from the bowl goes into the tank towards the top of
the tank. Let me know if you come up with any solutions



Udo J. Reich

_____

From: amelliahona [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:52 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Head pump




Mike Ondra wrote:
" We are persistently getting backflow of waste water through the check
valves
back into the toilet bowl, enough sometimes to fill the bowl. Besides being
unpleasant at anchor, this can be a mess under sail."

Ian Shepherd wrote:
" I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I have
changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little difference."

Hi Mike and Ian:

I have had the same problem with the forward head only. I originally
thought it was water siphoning from the fill pump side but I shut off
the sea water supply valve while under sail and the toilet bowl filled
with foul water anyway. It was only to a certain level and never would
overflow the bowl so I think it was just the back flow through the
joker valve of the outflow pipe to the holding tank. Ian, like you
changing the joker valve several times and that DID NOT remedy the
situation. Also it does this with the holding tank empty or full so I
don't think it is related to the mode of entry of the outflow pipe
into the holding tank.

I suspect that the joker vavle does not have enough strength to
withstand the pressure head of water that is in the forward head
outflow pipe. As you know this pipe is taller than the aft head pipe
and thus would have a higher head of pressure. Perhaps installing a
more robust one way valve in the outflow pipe could be a solution.
I plan to research this a bit more. Nice to know that I am not the
only one out here with this problem. Joel, do you have any thoughts
on this issue?

Kindest regards, Gary Silver S/V Liahona

Mike Ondra wrote:
" We are persistently getting backflow of waste water through the check valves
back into the toilet bowl, enough sometimes to fill the bowl. Besides being
unpleasant at anchor, this can be a mess under sail."

Ian Shepherd wrote:
" I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I have
changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little difference."

Hi Mike and Ian:


I have had the same problem with the forward head only. I originally
thought it was water siphoning from the fill pump side but I shut off
the sea water supply valve while under sail and the toilet bowl filled
with foul water anyway. It was only to a certain level and never would
overflow the bowl so I think it was just the back flow through the
joker valve of the outflow pipe to the holding tank. Ian, like you
changing the joker valve several times and that DID NOT remedy the
situation. Also it does this with the holding tank empty or full so I
don't think it is related to the mode of entry of the outflow pipe
into the holding tank.

I suspect that the joker vavle does not have enough strength to
withstand the pressure head of water that is in the forward head
outflow pipe. As you know this pipe is taller than the aft head pipe
and thus would have a higher head of pressure. Perhaps installing a
more robust one way valve in the outflow pipe could be a solution.
I plan to research this a bit more. Nice to know that I am not the
only one out here with this problem. Joel, do you have any thoughts
on this issue?

Kindest regards, Gary Silver S/V Liahona

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Roger Banks <roger.banks@...>
wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone can help me with a factoid please, having
tried Olivier without response unfortunately. I own Mango 28,

built

in 1982. It has the Perkins 4.236 motor with Hurth HBW400-2R

gearbox.

For the purpose of ordering a MaxiProp, can you please let me know
what would be the reduction at the propellor?

Regards, Roger, Mango 28, Zorba

Roger,

I posted the mechanical drawing of the prop shaft in the pistures
section. It appears to be the original drawing from Juin 1977. I have
a few notes from our installation in 1992. The shaft is 35 mm, Zinks
are 70mm, Prop is 22". For pitch adjustment: Blade Setting angle 20
degrees-15.0. Right rotation 20 degrees, X (-) is K, Y (.) is E
Let me know if this is sufficient.
Bob
Tempest
Mango 44
wrpace@cox.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ian,

Using the high volume flush indeed can improve the character of the backwash
into the bowl, however it also significantly limits the number of flushes
possible when the holding tank is not set to discharger overboard (in port).
I am considering installing a ball valve in the riser pipe just above the
head pump to allow a manual shut off to the backflow problem. Primitive but
should be effective. I would hope there would be a more elegant solution.

Relative to the riser tube inside the holding tank, the swan neck 180 top
would be appropriate to act as a trap to prevent holding tank contents from
sloshing back down the tube. But if the tube was working properly, it would
be full and therefore would not be able to take on more effluent. That
copper riser tube was severely constricted with mineral building in Aletes
as previously reported. I mechanically pried off the buildup with a
combination of screwdriver and hacksaw blade up into the tube as far as they
could reach. My sense was that I could reach fully to the top of the tube
(only with great difficulty and scraping of knuckles) and that it simple
ended near the top of the tank without any elbow or gooseneck. I hope that
is the case because there would be no way to pry off deposits around the
elbow. I would really like to know what the inside plumbing of the holding
tank looks like, and how Amel expects us to be able to maintain any parts
inside it.

Mike

_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Shepherd
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 4:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Head pump



Hi Mike,

I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I have
changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little difference. I am
told by Amel that the pump up pipe enters the holding tank via a swan neck,
so there should not be any back flow unless the tank is faulty. The only
way to test it might be to pour some dye into the tank and see if it finds
its way back to the toilet bowl.

I believe that in my case it is probably only what's in the pump up pipe
that back flows. As the forward holding tank is situated higher above the
bowl in the forward head than the aft, it may be the higher head of fluid
that is causing my problem.

The only way that I find to make the situation more pleasant is to make sure
that the toilet is well flushed after use so that only sea water comes back
into the bowl.

Good Luck!

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Hi Mike,

I have always had the same problem with the forward head only. I have
changed the joker valve several times, but it makes little difference. I am
told by Amel that the pump up pipe enters the holding tank via a swan neck,
so there should not be any back flow unless the tank is faulty. The only
way to test it might be to pour some dye into the tank and see if it finds
its way back to the toilet bowl.

I believe that in my case it is probably only what's in the pump up pipe
that back flows. As the forward holding tank is situated higher above the
bowl in the forward head than the aft, it may be the higher head of fluid
that is causing my problem.

The only way that I find to make the situation more pleasant is to make sure
that the toilet is well flushed after use so that only sea water comes back
into the bowl.

Good Luck!

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

Hello Mike,

I have a problem with my chain counter too. When at anchor, the reading
slowly counts down, though never up. I have contacted Pochon and they say
that it is a fault in the circuit board in the display meter. They say they
can fix it if I send the meter back to them. I would say that your problem
is also on this board.

My problem seems to be worse in high temperatures. I wonder where you are
located right now? Also, can you tell me if the two 13 mm holes in the side
of the sensor that is bolted to the left hand side of the windlass are
uncovered, or are they fitted with rubber plugs to keep moisture out? Mine
are open, which seems a a little odd.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader

We are persistently getting backflow of waste water through the check valves
back into the toilet bowl, enough sometimes to fill the bowl. Besides being
unpleasant at anchor, this can be a mess under sail. I would presume (and
hope) this volume represents the waste water from the riser tube only and is
not siphoning out of the holding tank somehow leaking back through the
tricuspid check valve as well as the flapper valve in the pump assembly.
New valve and flapper seemed to retard the problem for a short time only.

Does anyone know what the riser tube looks like inside the holding tank.
Does it simply extend to near the top of the holding tank with an open end
inches below the top of the tank? Or perhaps there is a 180 deg elbow on
top?

Have other faced this and discovered the problem and solution?

Mike Ondra
Aletes - SM 2000 #240

When turned on, our chain counter politely counts down, or up after pressing
the Z, in apparent seconds, completely unaffected by what may be happening
at the windlass. Have others experienced this and what is the culprit?

Mike Ondra
Aletes - SM 2000 #240

The fabricator and installer was FKG rigging, Kevin

E-mail him at(kevin@fkg-marine-rigging.com). They are located in
Simpson Bay Lagoon.
Phone +599 544 4733 - Mobile +599 557 8502 - Fax +599 544 2171
info@fkg-marine-rigging.com FKG Marine Rigging & Fabrication
37 Wellington Road, Cole Bay, St Maarten, NA





could you give me the name of the manufacturer of your Davits.

thank you

Henry

John,

could you give me the name of the manufacturer of your Davits.

thank you

Henry


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "jfolino901" <jfolino901@...>
wrote:

I do not have any pictures, but will take several and post these

when I

return to the BVI in November.
John

I do not have any pictures, but will take several and post these when I
return to the BVI in November.
John

Tony,

Do you have any pictures of the install?

Thanks

Eric





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jfolino901
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 3:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sulajon




Tony,

I had FKG rigging of Simpson Bay St. Martin install davits. They ran a
strut thru the transom to the inner blocking in the aft locker for
strength. The cost was about $2,000.00. Sulajon is on the hard at Nanny
Cay Marina in Road Town until November, then at F dock.

John, Sulajon SM #347
--- In amelyachtowners@ <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "agav8ter" <agav8ter@...> wrote:

I would like to install a set of Davits on our SM #266. I would sure
like to hear from people that have davits installed. Pro or Con let
me know!! I saw a SM in Trellis Bay, Tortola that had a great set of
davits, but I can not for the life of me remember the name of the
boat. I do remember that there were partners owning her, and the
owner/partner that was sailing her at that time was a retired airline
pilot. Ring a bell, anyone???

Thanks for your help,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM# 266

Tony,

I had FKG rigging of Simpson Bay St. Martin install davits. They ran a
strut thru the transom to the inner blocking in the aft locker for
strength. The cost was about $2,000.00. Sulajon is on the hard at Nanny
Cay Marina in Road Town until November, then at F dock.

John, Sulajon SM #347

I would like to install a set of Davits on our SM #266. I would sure
like to hear from people that have davits installed. Pro or Con let
me know!! I saw a SM in Trellis Bay, Tortola that had a great set of
davits, but I can not for the life of me remember the name of the
boat. I do remember that there were partners owning her, and the
owner/partner that was sailing her at that time was a retired airline
pilot. Ring a bell, anyone???

Thanks for your help,

Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM# 266