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Needed: Amel Experienced Surveyor - North East USA
mr_hermanns
Fellow Amelians, Amel Experienced Surveyor Needed. Looking for someone near the Annapolis area to complete a Survey. Sadly, I don’t know anyone on the east coast and would love recommendations!
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B&G Hydra2000 as spare parts
Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Hello,
I replaced the old B&G Hydra 2000 on Vela Nautica.
I got the main processor, expansion processor, 2 pcs FFD Fully Function Display.
Masthead wind vane with about 20m wire.
System was used until 09/2019.
No guaranty if all is working.
Item is located at Las Palmas, Grand Canaria, Spain
If anybody is interested let me know.
Oliver from Vela Nautica
A54#39
Las Palmas, Grand Canaria
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
I sail an Amel Euros 39 from 2004-2015. She was built in 1968
Now she is 52 jears old and i think she is in good condotione
Best Elja
SM Balu 222
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Dan Carlson
Thanks for all the feedback on my proposal, and any more to come.
I remembered one important question I left off of the original email: GROUNDING on the Victron Multi-Plus? For those that have installed the Victron Multi-Plus, how did you handle the grounding? And did you use have to change the configuration of the grounding relay on the Victron?
Regarding the 50a vs 16a; my logic was that I only run the generator when I need the to run the watermaker. The need for water is greater that my day to day energy deficit. Therefore I set up the Victron for the lesser of the available shore power current or generator excess over the watermaker. In my case that currently is 10amps. My sense check after living on the boat for 20 months out of the last three years is that will supply the needs of our lifestyle. In fact it will greatly expand our capability to is AC because 1) when the generator is running and I switch on AC devices the Victron will automatically adjust the current going to the batteries to stay within limits. And the power assist will allow me to draw from the batteries at peak times to supplement the 10a limit to the panel up to 2x (20a). Likewise when on shore power I still have the same capability. If I went with the 50a, then I would need to remember to switch my input current limit from 16a to 25a and back when going between shore power in the marina versus generator at anchorage.
I realize in these discussions it should not be about whose lifestyle on the boat is right, but for a given owners lifestyle are they installing and setting up the right systems. And taking in not only the right considerations for their current way of living as well as potential changes in the future... For us, this will also be the potential demands of induction cooking.
Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe at Shelter Bay Marina
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019, 11:45 AM ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington= aol.com@groups.io wrote: On Amelia I have a Trace 70A charger 2.5KW inverter that I bought to replace the old Dolphin 100A Charger that was defective when I bought the boat. I wanted an 100A charger but the Trace was on special offer and available at the time, from Budget Marine in Grenada. With all my solar/wind that is absolutely fine on the charging side.
When it came to wiring in the inverter side I decided not to until I had spent some time on the boat. So it was initially only used as a charger. I found that I only wanted the inverter to use a toaster and a coffee machine, and vacuum cleaner and other minor appliances in the galley area. I considered various wiring options, but they were all discarded . So what I have done is run a cable from the inverter 240v output to a new single socket in the galley. Labelled 2.5KW inverter.
I know this is a bit primitive, but I have found that it works fine. The advantage being that I have not messed with any of the Amel original AC installation. There is no risk of any generator/inverter/shore power contamination or confusion. I am still reliant on the original Amel installed automatic Shore Power/Generator switch.
I am happy with this simplicity. In general when I run the washing machine; the desalinator is also running, as well as the hot water and chargers. I reckon that we would be pulling 30A, so 7.5 KW. A job for the 11KW Onan.
When installing new equipment on Amelia I am always mindful of the Amel way but more importantly the philosophy:
Kind regards
Nick
S/Y Amelia AML 54-019
Mark.
I am sure what the Victron technician meant with shore power / generator was either one and not both, of course. The word 'simultaneously" was referring to AC and water heater use, in his example. His point was only to help one chose between the 16A and the 50A transfer switch.
Roque Attika A54 #117 Paraty Brazil
Em seg., 9 de dez. de 2019 às 12:22, Mark & Debbie Mueller < brass.ring@...> escreveu: You stated that “For example, should a water heater and Air conditioning unit wish to be used simultaneously and in conjunction with shore power / on board generator the 50A unit would be chosen (50A - 11.5kW peak loads)”. If I understand that you are connecting the shore power and generator simultaneously to the same circuit it is been my experience that catastrophic failures occur in the generator and likely some components between the generator and shore power unless the generator has some fairly sophisticated phase matching capabilities, I do not believe the equipment on our boats have that capability. The generator must have the capability to match the peaks and valleys of the sine wave supplied by the shore power input. Failures of this nature typically occur when a transfer switch fails connecting both shore power and generator. Search message #46769 for a recent example of this on an Amel.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring A54
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Re: Bowthruster works only one way
Hello
We had the same issue last year.
Solenoid issue, cleaned and working again.
Soraya & Thomas
GARULFO A54-122
Marquesas, FP
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
ngtnewington Newington
On Amelia I have a Trace 70A charger 2.5KW inverter that I bought to replace the old Dolphin 100A Charger that was defective when I bought the boat. I wanted an 100A charger but the Trace was on special offer and available at the time, from Budget Marine in Grenada. With all my solar/wind that is absolutely fine on the charging side.
When it came to wiring in the inverter side I decided not to until I had spent some time on the boat. So it was initially only used as a charger. I found that I only wanted the inverter to use a toaster and a coffee machine, and vacuum cleaner and other minor appliances in the galley area. I considered various wiring options, but they were all discarded . So what I have done is run a cable from the inverter 240v output to a new single socket in the galley. Labelled 2.5KW inverter.
I know this is a bit primitive, but I have found that it works fine. The advantage being that I have not messed with any of the Amel original AC installation. There is no risk of any generator/inverter/shore power contamination or confusion. I am still reliant on the original Amel installed automatic Shore Power/Generator switch.
I am happy with this simplicity. In general when I run the washing machine; the desalinator is also running, as well as the hot water and chargers. I reckon that we would be pulling 30A, so 7.5 KW. A job for the 11KW Onan.
When installing new equipment on Amelia I am always mindful of the Amel way but more importantly the philosophy:
Kind regards
Nick
S/Y Amelia AML 54-019
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Mark.
I am sure what the Victron technician meant with shore power / generator was either one and not both, of course. The word 'simultaneously" was referring to AC and water heater use, in his example. His point was only to help one chose between the 16A and the 50A transfer switch.
Roque Attika A54 #117 Paraty Brazil
Em seg., 9 de dez. de 2019 às 12:22, Mark & Debbie Mueller < brass.ring@...> escreveu: You stated that “For example, should a water heater and Air conditioning unit wish to be used simultaneously and in conjunction with shore power / on board generator the 50A unit would be chosen (50A - 11.5kW peak loads)”. If I understand that you are connecting the shore power and generator simultaneously to the same circuit it is been my experience that catastrophic failures occur in the generator and likely some components between the generator and shore power unless the generator has some fairly sophisticated phase matching capabilities, I do not believe the equipment on our boats have that capability. The generator must have the capability to match the peaks and valleys of the sine wave supplied by the shore power input. Failures of this nature typically occur when a transfer switch fails connecting both shore power and generator. Search message #46769 for a recent example of this on an Amel.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring A54
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Mark.
I am sure what the Victron technician meant with shore power / generator was either
one and not both, of course. The word 'simultaneously" was referring to AC and water heater use, in his example.
His point was only to help one chose between
the 16A and the 50A transfer switch.
Roque Attika A54 #117 Paraty Brazil
Em seg., 9 de dez. de 2019 às 12:22, Mark & Debbie Mueller < brass.ring@...> escreveu:
You stated that “For example, should a water heater and Air conditioning unit wish to be used simultaneously and in conjunction with shore power / on board generator the 50A unit would be chosen (50A - 11.5kW peak loads)”. If I understand that you are connecting the shore power and generator simultaneously to the same circuit it is been my experience that catastrophic failures occur in the generator and likely some components between the generator and shore power unless the generator has some fairly sophisticated phase matching capabilities, I do not believe the equipment on our boats have that capability. The generator must have the capability to match the peaks and valleys of the sine wave supplied by the shore power input.
Failures of this nature typically occur when a transfer switch fails connecting both shore power and generator. Search message #46769 for a recent example of this on an Amel.
--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring A54
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
You stated that “For example, should a water heater and Air conditioning unit wish to be used simultaneously and in conjunction with shore power / on board generator the 50A unit would be chosen (50A - 11.5kW peak loads)”. If I understand that you are connecting the shore power and generator simultaneously to the same circuit it is been my experience that catastrophic failures occur in the generator and likely some components between the generator and shore power unless the generator has some fairly sophisticated phase matching capabilities, I do not believe the equipment on our boats have that capability. The generator must have the capability to match the peaks and valleys of the sine wave supplied by the shore power input.
Failures of this nature typically occur when a transfer switch fails connecting both shore power and generator. Search message #46769 for a recent example of this on an Amel.
-- Mark Mueller Brass Ring A54
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Hi Dan "Regarding the power-pass current, I am not clear how Victron handles this. I am assuming that it is counting this as part of the 16amp limit on the AC input side, so this would limit what I can pull on the generator to 16a?"
Have you considered the Victron 3000w/70a/24v/ 50a model?
This is what Mr Wayne Peters from Geckoenergy (UK) informed me:
"The choice between the 16 or 50A transfer switch would be determined by your peak AC loads you with to run on the vessel. For example, should a water heater and Air conditioning unit wish to be used simultaneously and in conjunction with shore power / on board generator the 50A unit would be chosen (50A - 11.5kW peak loads) If you vessel is relatively low AC demand then the 16A (3.6kW) may provide the AC through power needed. Although we don’t recommend to run these inverters at max output you also have the “assist” function within these units that will allow a further peak capacity of the inverter (3000VA (2.4kW) to also be used assuming state of charge and suitability of the battery."
Hope it helps
Roque Attika A54 #117 Paraty Brazil Em seg., 9 de dez. de 2019 às 10:59, Dan Carlson < carlsdan61@...> escreveu:
Hi Colin, thanks for the reply and added information.
Regarding the water maker: that is the key consumer for me and I am sure that the 160lph consumes a lot more current that the Dou100; however, it is less than 16a, so I could run it through the Victron, but then that would limit what else I could run on the generator. I like to load the generator up to about 20-24a when I am using it, to make the most of the time.
Regarding the power-pass current, I am not clear how Victron handles this. I am assuming that it is counting this as part of the 16amp limit on the AC input side, so this would limit what I can pull on the generator to 16a?
Regarding the location of the Victron unit, that is also good the hear. My understanding of the pro's of having it in the closet are the shorter 24v wire run from the batteries, and the cleaner/cooler environment. The con's to me would be the loss of the closet, the heat generated as well as the extra fan noise in the cabin.
My plan is to locate the Victron in replacement of the 100amp charger in the engine room. Using the existing 100amp battery cables and hoping that the existing ventilation in the engine room is sufficient. I think that it will also be easier to wire in the 230v input and output wires. Additional consideration: I already have the 1800w invertor right adjacent to the existing 100amp charger so that gives me an additional set of battery cables as well as 230v wiring to work with. In fact my first step will probably be to connect the output to from the Victron to that existing inverter output circuit/outlets and the rewire the breaker box as a second phase.
Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe.
Hi Dan
Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to write a full response, but briefly looked at your diagram and can confirm that the Victron unit you describe is excellent and has serviced us particularly well. It also has an extra "direct power pass through" power outlet which you could run to the two original Amel Chargers (and watermaker) from if required.
Confirmed that we have this same unit wired as per your diagram, with the exception of the Duo AC/DC Water maker deletion. In other words, we do also run a/c power from the Amel switch (genset/shore power) to the Victon 3000w / 70amp 16a inverter/charger and on to the A/C switchboard which still includes the original switch for the water maker. The water maker has never tripped out over the 16amp BUT we probably have a more recent (2012 Duo a/c & dc 100/min) model water maker, not the previous 160L/Hr a/c only version. This could (I have not checked) mean that we need lower amperage, but in our case the water maker has never tripped over 16amps at peaks, and at times when we want to dump a little power ie. in full sun (1.04kw solar) plus 20kts plus wind (2x 450w Rutland 1200's) we run the Water maker on a/c for an hour or two off the 3000w inverter only, so would therefore not want it to run on the Genset/Shore Power pass through circuit only.
A little tip we got from S/V Joy's previous owners was to place the remote control for the Victron unit next to the a/c switchboard (just below the speaker). This has been an excellent spot to control the inverter/charger from as it is next to the a/c switches. Also we located the Victron Inverter/Charger in the wet clothes locker area backing onto the wall to the day bed/ battery banks. This was to get it as close as possible to the batteries as recommended by Victron.
Colin Streeter SV Island Pearl II Back in Newport Marina, Brisbane after completing a totally trouble free - 3 year 3,000nm circumnavigation this month
SV Island Pearl II
FOR SALE - US$299,000 now fully serviced, and totally ready to cross oceans again
Lastly
Hello all, I have been thinking through the best way to install a Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387. I am specifically looking at the 3000w/70a/24v/16a model. I have seen several previous posts that have discussed aspects of installing Victron Inverter/Chargers. These previous posts have included discussion of installing switches between sources of supply to the 230v panel, or dividing the 230v panel between the inverter supply and direct supply from shore or inverter… I am considering the approach diagramed roughly in the attached photo and described below. Please let me know your feedback, questions or concerns. A very brief summary of the he Victron Multi-plus: It will take 230v power from shore or generator (45-65Hz) as well as 24v power from a battery bank to provide 230v power for the boat. The 16a model is limited to 16a current load. From this it can provide up to 3000a from the inverter, with or with-out shore power. Whenever there is excess 230v supply over housed demand for 230v, the inverter will switch to a charger mode to put energy back into the battery bank. On SM#387 this is great for most of our needs as we are currently restricted to 16a on the Shore power already. However; we do have one significant conflict for power demand and that is the 230v water-maker which draws approx. 13-14Amps. To best solve for this and to minimize the requirement for different switches I would like to connect the output from the Victron directly to the 230v panel to provide consistent ac power for the boat when whether on battery, shore power or generator. And to solve the current demand needs by removing the water-maker and both of the battery charging breakers from the existing 230 panel. See notes below for further explanations. Design notes to accompany attached diagram: - This approach is based on the current 16a system/limit on Shore Power, the current Onan 7MDKAV generator and the current AMEL switch box that automatically switches between Shore or Generator as AC source. I think that I will add a 16a breaker on the shore power as a good precaution as I work on my overall wiring.
- I will need to add a new breaker box, or perhaps I can use the existing breaker box that was used for the Pro-Sine 1800w inverter that currently supplies power to the boat. This is where I would have the breakers for the water-maker and also for the secondary battery charger (perhaps a Sterling 24v/30a charger). This will be supplied directly from the AMEL switching relay box.
- This would allow me to re-move the wires for the water-maker and the secondary charger from the main 230v panel.
- The breaker the 100a charger will also be removed from the 230v panel, and new wire will be added directly from the Amel switch to the Victron Inverter (with the appropriate fuses/breakers).
- The AC output from the Victron Multi-Plus inverter directly to the 230v panel (I need to consider changing the existing 30a breaker on the main panel to based on the overall limit from the Victron.)
- Supply the battery power to the Victron Multi-plus from the existing cable that supplied the 100a charger (This looks like a 50mm2 cable, which is sufficient for up to 5meter run).
- Configuration: The Victron Multi-Plus has a Power Control setting that sets a limit the current that it will draw on the AC input source. I could set this to a max of 10amps. The rationale for this is:
- When I am running the generator and I turn on the water-maker I have already limited to the Victron current draw to 10amps. That and the 13-4amps that the water-maker draws will put an appropriate load on the generator. Note: it is likely that the Victron will regularly be fully utilizing this limit because what ever I am not using for 230a current will be allocated to charge the batteries, up to the 70amp limit for the Victron for charging.
- When I am on Shore power I have set a very conservative 10a limit on the 16amp shore power circuit but I will actually be able to provide more current to the 230 amp panel than I previously would on shore power with out the Victron. This is achieved through the Victron Power Assist capability. When the 230v AC demand on the main panel exceeds the 10amp limit on the current input, the inverter will make up the shortage using the Inverter to draw from the battery. The documented examples from Victron specifically shows an example of a 10a limit on the input current being supplemented with 10amps from the inverter to provide 20amps total AC current out. This should be sufficient for our needs as most of our higher current draws on the AC side are only for short duration, i.e. hot water kettle for 1-2 minutes, 3-5 minutes to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher, or short bursts for the micro-wave.
- Operational considerations:
- Day in and day out we are already trained to look up at the 230v Current meter before we turn anything on the 230v panel, and shut something off if necessary. Regarding the water heater, we currently do not leave it on when on Shore Power. We will turn it on for an hour in the morning and that is sufficient for the whole day.
- Regarding the generator operation and water-maker: I am always in the engine room before and after running the generator / water-make; to set the flush valves prior to the water-maker run and after the water-maker run to flush the membranes and check that everything is ok. Therefore having the breakers for the watermaker and secondary charger in the engine room do not add any inconvenience to my existing routing for running generator/water-maker.
- Important! The Victron Multi-Plus AC current frequency out will default to 50Hz when on the inverter, but it will switch to match the frequency of any input AC source. So when running the generator it will be 50Hz, however, when on 60Hz Shore Power then the AC output to the main panel will be 60Hz.
Please let me know your feedback, challenges, questions on this, as I want to get it right the first time and I know I am not the first down this road and there are learnings to be shared. Thanks and Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv-BeBe, currently at Shelter Bay Marina, Panama
--
Colin Streeter0411 016 445
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Dan Carlson
Hi Colin, thanks for the reply and added information.
Regarding the water maker: that is the key consumer for me and I am sure that the 160lph consumes a lot more current that the Dou100; however, it is less than 16a, so I could run it through the Victron, but then that would limit what else I could run on the generator. I like to load the generator up to about 20-24a when I am using it, to make the most of the time.
Regarding the power-pass current, I am not clear how Victron handles this. I am assuming that it is counting this as part of the 16amp limit on the AC input side, so this would limit what I can pull on the generator to 16a?
Regarding the location of the Victron unit, that is also good the hear. My understanding of the pro's of having it in the closet are the shorter 24v wire run from the batteries, and the cleaner/cooler environment. The con's to me would be the loss of the closet, the heat generated as well as the extra fan noise in the cabin.
My plan is to locate the Victron in replacement of the 100amp charger in the engine room. Using the existing 100amp battery cables and hoping that the existing ventilation in the engine room is sufficient. I think that it will also be easier to wire in the 230v input and output wires. Additional consideration: I already have the 1800w invertor right adjacent to the existing 100amp charger so that gives me an additional set of battery cables as well as 230v wiring to work with. In fact my first step will probably be to connect the output to from the Victron to that existing inverter output circuit/outlets and the rewire the breaker box as a second phase.
Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe.
Hi Dan
Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to write a full response, but briefly looked at your diagram and can confirm that the Victron unit you describe is excellent and has serviced us particularly well. It also has an extra "direct power pass through" power outlet which you could run to the two original Amel Chargers (and watermaker) from if required.
Confirmed that we have this same unit wired as per your diagram, with the exception of the Duo AC/DC Water maker deletion. In other words, we do also run a/c power from the Amel switch (genset/shore power) to the Victon 3000w / 70amp 16a inverter/charger and on to the A/C switchboard which still includes the original switch for the water maker. The water maker has never tripped out over the 16amp BUT we probably have a more recent (2012 Duo a/c & dc 100/min) model water maker, not the previous 160L/Hr a/c only version. This could (I have not checked) mean that we need lower amperage, but in our case the water maker has never tripped over 16amps at peaks, and at times when we want to dump a little power ie. in full sun (1.04kw solar) plus 20kts plus wind (2x 450w Rutland 1200's) we run the Water maker on a/c for an hour or two off the 3000w inverter only, so would therefore not want it to run on the Genset/Shore Power pass through circuit only.
A little tip we got from S/V Joy's previous owners was to place the remote control for the Victron unit next to the a/c switchboard (just below the speaker). This has been an excellent spot to control the inverter/charger from as it is next to the a/c switches. Also we located the Victron Inverter/Charger in the wet clothes locker area backing onto the wall to the day bed/ battery banks. This was to get it as close as possible to the batteries as recommended by Victron.
Colin Streeter SV Island Pearl II Back in Newport Marina, Brisbane after completing a totally trouble free - 3 year 3,000nm circumnavigation this month
SV Island Pearl II
FOR SALE - US$299,000 now fully serviced, and totally ready to cross oceans again
Lastly
Hello all, I have been thinking through the best way to install a Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387. I am specifically looking at the 3000w/70a/24v/16a model. I have seen several previous posts that have discussed aspects of installing Victron Inverter/Chargers. These previous posts have included discussion of installing switches between sources of supply to the 230v panel, or dividing the 230v panel between the inverter supply and direct supply from shore or inverter… I am considering the approach diagramed roughly in the attached photo and described below. Please let me know your feedback, questions or concerns. A very brief summary of the he Victron Multi-plus: It will take 230v power from shore or generator (45-65Hz) as well as 24v power from a battery bank to provide 230v power for the boat. The 16a model is limited to 16a current load. From this it can provide up to 3000a from the inverter, with or with-out shore power. Whenever there is excess 230v supply over housed demand for 230v, the inverter will switch to a charger mode to put energy back into the battery bank. On SM#387 this is great for most of our needs as we are currently restricted to 16a on the Shore power already. However; we do have one significant conflict for power demand and that is the 230v water-maker which draws approx. 13-14Amps. To best solve for this and to minimize the requirement for different switches I would like to connect the output from the Victron directly to the 230v panel to provide consistent ac power for the boat when whether on battery, shore power or generator. And to solve the current demand needs by removing the water-maker and both of the battery charging breakers from the existing 230 panel. See notes below for further explanations. Design notes to accompany attached diagram: - This approach is based on the current 16a system/limit on Shore Power, the current Onan 7MDKAV generator and the current AMEL switch box that automatically switches between Shore or Generator as AC source. I think that I will add a 16a breaker on the shore power as a good precaution as I work on my overall wiring.
- I will need to add a new breaker box, or perhaps I can use the existing breaker box that was used for the Pro-Sine 1800w inverter that currently supplies power to the boat. This is where I would have the breakers for the water-maker and also for the secondary battery charger (perhaps a Sterling 24v/30a charger). This will be supplied directly from the AMEL switching relay box.
- This would allow me to re-move the wires for the water-maker and the secondary charger from the main 230v panel.
- The breaker the 100a charger will also be removed from the 230v panel, and new wire will be added directly from the Amel switch to the Victron Inverter (with the appropriate fuses/breakers).
- The AC output from the Victron Multi-Plus inverter directly to the 230v panel (I need to consider changing the existing 30a breaker on the main panel to based on the overall limit from the Victron.)
- Supply the battery power to the Victron Multi-plus from the existing cable that supplied the 100a charger (This looks like a 50mm2 cable, which is sufficient for up to 5meter run).
- Configuration: The Victron Multi-Plus has a Power Control setting that sets a limit the current that it will draw on the AC input source. I could set this to a max of 10amps. The rationale for this is:
- When I am running the generator and I turn on the water-maker I have already limited to the Victron current draw to 10amps. That and the 13-4amps that the water-maker draws will put an appropriate load on the generator. Note: it is likely that the Victron will regularly be fully utilizing this limit because what ever I am not using for 230a current will be allocated to charge the batteries, up to the 70amp limit for the Victron for charging.
- When I am on Shore power I have set a very conservative 10a limit on the 16amp shore power circuit but I will actually be able to provide more current to the 230 amp panel than I previously would on shore power with out the Victron. This is achieved through the Victron Power Assist capability. When the 230v AC demand on the main panel exceeds the 10amp limit on the current input, the inverter will make up the shortage using the Inverter to draw from the battery. The documented examples from Victron specifically shows an example of a 10a limit on the input current being supplemented with 10amps from the inverter to provide 20amps total AC current out. This should be sufficient for our needs as most of our higher current draws on the AC side are only for short duration, i.e. hot water kettle for 1-2 minutes, 3-5 minutes to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher, or short bursts for the micro-wave.
- Operational considerations:
- Day in and day out we are already trained to look up at the 230v Current meter before we turn anything on the 230v panel, and shut something off if necessary. Regarding the water heater, we currently do not leave it on when on Shore Power. We will turn it on for an hour in the morning and that is sufficient for the whole day.
- Regarding the generator operation and water-maker: I am always in the engine room before and after running the generator / water-make; to set the flush valves prior to the water-maker run and after the water-maker run to flush the membranes and check that everything is ok. Therefore having the breakers for the watermaker and secondary charger in the engine room do not add any inconvenience to my existing routing for running generator/water-maker.
- Important! The Victron Multi-Plus AC current frequency out will default to 50Hz when on the inverter, but it will switch to match the frequency of any input AC source. So when running the generator it will be 50Hz, however, when on 60Hz Shore Power then the AC output to the main panel will be 60Hz.
Please let me know your feedback, challenges, questions on this, as I want to get it right the first time and I know I am not the first down this road and there are learnings to be shared. Thanks and Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv-BeBe, currently at Shelter Bay Marina, Panama
--
Colin Streeter0411 016 445
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
Well, we have an GRP sailing yacht in Sweden that is built 1962, she is still going strong in the hands of our sons.
So your guess is as good as anyones in how long a GRP-hull will last. Hälsningar Ann-Sofie S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998
Skickat från min iPhone
9 dec. 2019 kl. 11:57 skrev Daniel Alexander Thompson <Thompson.Xander@...>:
Thanks for the replies.
I really don't want to get a Santorin: the changes to their layout is not that great.
So if the Meltem, Mango and Maramu don't have watertight aft cabin, then I think it's a Mango or a Meltem for me.
My next question in t-minus 14 days will be:
How long will a Meltem hull last for? 100 years?
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Daniel Alexander Thompson
Thanks for the replies.
I really don't want to get a Santorin: the changes to their layout is not that great.
So if the Meltem, Mango and Maramu don't have watertight aft cabin, then I think it's a Mango or a Meltem for me.
My next question in t-minus 14 days will be:
How long will a Meltem hull last for? 100 years?
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Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Hi Dan
Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to write a full response, but briefly looked at your diagram and can confirm that the Victron unit you describe is excellent and has serviced us particularly well. It also has an extra "direct power pass through" power outlet which you could run to the two original Amel Chargers (and watermaker) from if required.
Confirmed that we have this same unit wired as per your diagram, with the exception of the Duo AC/DC Water maker deletion. In other words, we do also run a/c power from the Amel switch (genset/shore power) to the Victon 3000w / 70amp 16a inverter/charger and on to the A/C switchboard which still includes the original switch for the water maker. The water maker has never tripped out over the 16amp BUT we probably have a more recent (2012 Duo a/c & dc 100/min) model water maker, not the previous 160L/Hr a/c only version. This could (I have not checked) mean that we need lower amperage, but in our case the water maker has never tripped over 16amps at peaks, and at times when we want to dump a little power ie. in full sun (1.04kw solar) plus 20kts plus wind (2x 450w Rutland 1200's) we run the Water maker on a/c for an hour or two off the 3000w inverter only, so would therefore not want it to run on the Genset/Shore Power pass through circuit only.
A little tip we got from S/V Joy's previous owners was to place the remote control for the Victron unit next to the a/c switchboard (just below the speaker). This has been an excellent spot to control the inverter/charger from as it is next to the a/c switches. Also we located the Victron Inverter/Charger in the wet clothes locker area backing onto the wall to the day bed/ battery banks. This was to get it as close as possible to the batteries as recommended by Victron.
Colin Streeter SV Island Pearl II Back in Newport Marina, Brisbane after completing a totally trouble free - 3 year 3,000nm circumnavigation this month
SV Island Pearl II
FOR SALE - US$299,000 now fully serviced, and totally ready to cross oceans again
Lastly
Hello all, I have been thinking through the best way to install a Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387. I am specifically looking at the 3000w/70a/24v/16a model. I have seen several previous posts that have discussed aspects of installing Victron Inverter/Chargers. These previous posts have included discussion of installing switches between sources of supply to the 230v panel, or dividing the 230v panel between the inverter supply and direct supply from shore or inverter… I am considering the approach diagramed roughly in the attached photo and described below. Please let me know your feedback, questions or concerns. A very brief summary of the he Victron Multi-plus: It will take 230v power from shore or generator (45-65Hz) as well as 24v power from a battery bank to provide 230v power for the boat. The 16a model is limited to 16a current load. From this it can provide up to 3000a from the inverter, with or with-out shore power. Whenever there is excess 230v supply over housed demand for 230v, the inverter will switch to a charger mode to put energy back into the battery bank. On SM#387 this is great for most of our needs as we are currently restricted to 16a on the Shore power already. However; we do have one significant conflict for power demand and that is the 230v water-maker which draws approx. 13-14Amps. To best solve for this and to minimize the requirement for different switches I would like to connect the output from the Victron directly to the 230v panel to provide consistent ac power for the boat when whether on battery, shore power or generator. And to solve the current demand needs by removing the water-maker and both of the battery charging breakers from the existing 230 panel. See notes below for further explanations. Design notes to accompany attached diagram: - This approach is based on the current 16a system/limit on Shore Power, the current Onan 7MDKAV generator and the current AMEL switch box that automatically switches between Shore or Generator as AC source. I think that I will add a 16a breaker on the shore power as a good precaution as I work on my overall wiring.
- I will need to add a new breaker box, or perhaps I can use the existing breaker box that was used for the Pro-Sine 1800w inverter that currently supplies power to the boat. This is where I would have the breakers for the water-maker and also for the secondary battery charger (perhaps a Sterling 24v/30a charger). This will be supplied directly from the AMEL switching relay box.
- This would allow me to re-move the wires for the water-maker and the secondary charger from the main 230v panel.
- The breaker the 100a charger will also be removed from the 230v panel, and new wire will be added directly from the Amel switch to the Victron Inverter (with the appropriate fuses/breakers).
- The AC output from the Victron Multi-Plus inverter directly to the 230v panel (I need to consider changing the existing 30a breaker on the main panel to based on the overall limit from the Victron.)
- Supply the battery power to the Victron Multi-plus from the existing cable that supplied the 100a charger (This looks like a 50mm2 cable, which is sufficient for up to 5meter run).
- Configuration: The Victron Multi-Plus has a Power Control setting that sets a limit the current that it will draw on the AC input source. I could set this to a max of 10amps. The rationale for this is:
- When I am running the generator and I turn on the water-maker I have already limited to the Victron current draw to 10amps. That and the 13-4amps that the water-maker draws will put an appropriate load on the generator. Note: it is likely that the Victron will regularly be fully utilizing this limit because what ever I am not using for 230a current will be allocated to charge the batteries, up to the 70amp limit for the Victron for charging.
- When I am on Shore power I have set a very conservative 10a limit on the 16amp shore power circuit but I will actually be able to provide more current to the 230 amp panel than I previously would on shore power with out the Victron. This is achieved through the Victron Power Assist capability. When the 230v AC demand on the main panel exceeds the 10amp limit on the current input, the inverter will make up the shortage using the Inverter to draw from the battery. The documented examples from Victron specifically shows an example of a 10a limit on the input current being supplemented with 10amps from the inverter to provide 20amps total AC current out. This should be sufficient for our needs as most of our higher current draws on the AC side are only for short duration, i.e. hot water kettle for 1-2 minutes, 3-5 minutes to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher, or short bursts for the micro-wave.
- Operational considerations:
- Day in and day out we are already trained to look up at the 230v Current meter before we turn anything on the 230v panel, and shut something off if necessary. Regarding the water heater, we currently do not leave it on when on Shore Power. We will turn it on for an hour in the morning and that is sufficient for the whole day.
- Regarding the generator operation and water-maker: I am always in the engine room before and after running the generator / water-make; to set the flush valves prior to the water-maker run and after the water-maker run to flush the membranes and check that everything is ok. Therefore having the breakers for the watermaker and secondary charger in the engine room do not add any inconvenience to my existing routing for running generator/water-maker.
- Important! The Victron Multi-Plus AC current frequency out will default to 50Hz when on the inverter, but it will switch to match the frequency of any input AC source. So when running the generator it will be 50Hz, however, when on 60Hz Shore Power then the AC output to the main panel will be 60Hz.
Please let me know your feedback, challenges, questions on this, as I want to get it right the first time and I know I am not the first down this road and there are learnings to be shared. Thanks and Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv-BeBe, currently at Shelter Bay Marina, Panama
-- Colin Streeter0411 016 445
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Although the 46’-48’ Maramu did have a door to give privacy to the aft cabin, I have yet to see a Maramu with a watertight door in the aft cabin. We all know that Amel was extremely resistant to changes and modifications from standard specification, but sometimes some leniency was shown to legacy clients returning for their second or third new Amel boat, so perhaps there are some out there with a watertight for the aft cabin at the legacy buyers insistence. Again , I have never seen one at the shipyard nor on any of the very many Maramus I have resold. Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C. THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Giorgio Ardrizzi
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment In the Maramu the space in the engine room is smaller, in favor of a huge locker in the cockpit. All Maramu have a watertight door that close the aft cabin. Hello
Might anybody he kind enough to answer my questions below?
Is the Maramu 46 engine compartment larger than the Santorin's ?
Were any Maramus built with a watertight aft cabin door/compartment?
Best regards
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Additionally, the aft shower drains directly to the engine room so flooding of the aft cabin could occur unless a valve was installed to be able to shut off that ingress point.
Dave Wallace
sv Air Ops
On Dec 8, 2019, at 3:47 PM, amelforme < jfpottercys@...> wrote:
Although the 46’-48’ Maramu did have a door to give privacy to the aft cabin, I have yet to see a Maramu with a watertight door in the aft cabin. We all
know that Amel was extremely resistant to changes and modifications from standard specification, but sometimes some leniency was shown to legacy clients returning for their second of third new Amel boat, so perhaps there are some out there with a watertight
for the aft cabin at the legacy buyers insistence. Again , I have never seen one at the shipyard nor on the very many Maramus I have resold.
Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel
JOEL
F.
POTTER-CRUISING
YACHT
SPECIALIST~L.L.C.
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE
Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Giorgio Ardrizzi
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
In the Maramu the space in the engine room is smaller, in favor of a huge locker in the cockpit.
All Maramu have a watertight door that close the aft cabin.
Hello
Might anybody he kind enough to answer my questions below?
Is the Maramu 46 engine compartment larger than the Santorin's ?
Were any Maramus built with a watertight aft cabin door/compartment?
Best regards
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Although the 46’-48’ Maramu did have a door to give privacy to the aft cabin, I have yet to see a Maramu with a watertight door in the aft cabin. We all know that Amel was extremely resistant to changes and modifications from standard specification, but sometimes some leniency was shown to legacy clients returning for their second of third new Amel boat, so perhaps there are some out there with a watertight for the aft cabin at the legacy buyers insistence. Again , I have never seen one at the shipyard nor on the very many Maramus I have resold. Have Fun With Your Amel, Joel JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C. THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Giorgio Ardrizzi
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:51 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment In the Maramu the space in the engine room is smaller, in favor of a huge locker in the cockpit. All Maramu have a watertight door that close the aft cabin. Hello
Might anybody he kind enough to answer my questions below?
Is the Maramu 46 engine compartment larger than the Santorin's ?
Were any Maramus built with a watertight aft cabin door/compartment?
Best regards
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How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387
Dan Carlson
Hello all, I have been thinking through the best way to install a Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387. I am specifically looking at the 3000w/70a/24v/16a model. I have seen several previous posts that have discussed aspects of installing Victron Inverter/Chargers. These previous posts have included discussion of installing switches between sources of supply to the 230v panel, or dividing the 230v panel between the inverter supply and direct supply from shore or inverter… I am considering the approach diagramed roughly in the attached photo and described below. Please let me know your feedback, questions or concerns. A very brief summary of the he Victron Multi-plus: It will take 230v power from shore or generator (45-65Hz) as well as 24v power from a battery bank to provide 230v power for the boat. The 16a model is limited to 16a current load. From this it can provide up to 3000a from the inverter, with or with-out shore power. Whenever there is excess 230v supply over housed demand for 230v, the inverter will switch to a charger mode to put energy back into the battery bank. On SM#387 this is great for most of our needs as we are currently restricted to 16a on the Shore power already. However; we do have one significant conflict for power demand and that is the 230v water-maker which draws approx. 13-14Amps. To best solve for this and to minimize the requirement for different switches I would like to connect the output from the Victron directly to the 230v panel to provide consistent ac power for the boat when whether on battery, shore power or generator. And to solve the current demand needs by removing the water-maker and both of the battery charging breakers from the existing 230 panel. See notes below for further explanations. Design notes to accompany attached diagram: - This approach is based on the current 16a system/limit on Shore Power, the current Onan 7MDKAV generator and the current AMEL switch box that automatically switches between Shore or Generator as AC source. I think that I will add a 16a breaker on the shore power as a good precaution as I work on my overall wiring.
- I will need to add a new breaker box, or perhaps I can use the existing breaker box that was used for the Pro-Sine 1800w inverter that currently supplies power to the boat. This is where I would have the breakers for the water-maker and also for the secondary battery charger (perhaps a Sterling 24v/30a charger). This will be supplied directly from the AMEL switching relay box.
- This would allow me to re-move the wires for the water-maker and the secondary charger from the main 230v panel.
- The breaker the 100a charger will also be removed from the 230v panel, and new wire will be added directly from the Amel switch to the Victron Inverter (with the appropriate fuses/breakers).
- The AC output from the Victron Multi-Plus inverter directly to the 230v panel (I need to consider changing the existing 30a breaker on the main panel to based on the overall limit from the Victron.)
- Supply the battery power to the Victron Multi-plus from the existing cable that supplied the 100a charger (This looks like a 50mm2 cable, which is sufficient for up to 5meter run).
- Configuration: The Victron Multi-Plus has a Power Control setting that sets a limit the current that it will draw on the AC input source. I could set this to a max of 10amps. The rationale for this is:
- When I am running the generator and I turn on the water-maker I have already limited to the Victron current draw to 10amps. That and the 13-4amps that the water-maker draws will put an appropriate load on the generator. Note: it is likely that the Victron will regularly be fully utilizing this limit because what ever I am not using for 230a current will be allocated to charge the batteries, up to the 70amp limit for the Victron for charging.
- When I am on Shore power I have set a very conservative 10a limit on the 16amp shore power circuit but I will actually be able to provide more current to the 230 amp panel than I previously would on shore power with out the Victron. This is achieved through the Victron Power Assist capability. When the 230v AC demand on the main panel exceeds the 10amp limit on the current input, the inverter will make up the shortage using the Inverter to draw from the battery. The documented examples from Victron specifically shows an example of a 10a limit on the input current being supplemented with 10amps from the inverter to provide 20amps total AC current out. This should be sufficient for our needs as most of our higher current draws on the AC side are only for short duration, i.e. hot water kettle for 1-2 minutes, 3-5 minutes to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher, or short bursts for the micro-wave.
- Operational considerations:
- Day in and day out we are already trained to look up at the 230v Current meter before we turn anything on the 230v panel, and shut something off if necessary. Regarding the water heater, we currently do not leave it on when on Shore Power. We will turn it on for an hour in the morning and that is sufficient for the whole day.
- Regarding the generator operation and water-maker: I am always in the engine room before and after running the generator / water-make; to set the flush valves prior to the water-maker run and after the water-maker run to flush the membranes and check that everything is ok. Therefore having the breakers for the watermaker and secondary charger in the engine room do not add any inconvenience to my existing routing for running generator/water-maker.
- Important! The Victron Multi-Plus AC current frequency out will default to 50Hz when on the inverter, but it will switch to match the frequency of any input AC source. So when running the generator it will be 50Hz, however, when on 60Hz Shore Power then the AC output to the main panel will be 60Hz.
Please let me know your feedback, challenges, questions on this, as I want to get it right the first time and I know I am not the first down this road and there are learnings to be shared. Thanks and Regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv-BeBe, currently at Shelter Bay Marina, Panama
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Re: Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Giorgio Ardrizzi
In the Maramu the space in the engine room is smaller, in favor of a huge locker in the cockpit. All Maramu have a watertight door that close the aft cabin.
Giorgio Ardrizzi Saudade III - Sharki #1 Chaguaramas bay Trinidad
Hello
Might anybody he kind enough to answer my questions below?
Is the Maramu 46 engine compartment larger than the Santorin's ?
Were any Maramus built with a watertight aft cabin door/compartment?
Best regards
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Maramu 46 Vs Santorin engine compartment
Daniel Alexander Thompson
Hello
Might anybody he kind enough to answer my questions below?
Is the Maramu 46 engine compartment larger than the Santorin's ?
Were any Maramus built with a watertight aft cabin door/compartment?
Best regards
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Re: AMFA bilge pump rebuild kit
I think i found it (at least another thread where you quoted it). I will have a look to see what could be done.
Cheers Thomas
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 at 04:17, Craig Briggs SN 68 Sangaris via Groups.Io <sangaris= aol.com@groups.io> wrote: Hi Thomas,
Definitely not broken beyond repair. If, as Bill suggests, you can get a new plastic gear that would be super. If not, you can actually repair the old one quite easily - search for my old post on the subject, but basically, separate the outer toothed part from the inner ring, rotate the toothed part on reassembly so you've spanned all the inner breaks. Then drill holes in the valleys of the gear on each side of the breaks, thru the inner ring and put "pins" (finishing nails will do) thru the holes. You might wash it in mineral spirits first and add some glue to the brew. I did this repair on mine maybe 12 years ago or so and it its still going strong.
Cheers, Craig
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