Date   

Re: Power to 24v panel - easy to isolate?

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

The main feeder cable to the 24 volt panel is coming from the busbar-stud that sits on the wall that separates the battery compartment from the compartment that contains the main power switches. There are several cables stacked together there, one of those goes to the 24V panel. But be aware the 24 volt panel does not switch all consumers. The nav-area has a separate line. This also feeds the 24V-12V converters in the cabinet under the nav table. So disabling the  24V panel does not eliminate all power draw.

You may want to have a look at this product. It can handle 500A: https://tbs-electronics.com/product-category/dc-modular-fuseholders-busbars/
This means you can use it in your primary battery cable. Do think about how to connect this as you will need to be able to charge the battery even if the switch has disconnected the battery. So the charger should be connected directly to the battery. If I remember correctly Amel  connected the chargers on the battery side of the main power switches as well. So even if you disconnect all power the batteries can still be charged.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Sailing higher latitudes

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Orion,

We spent a couple of seasons in the Beagle channel and know of at least two SMs that went to the Antarctic peninsula. One owner boasted  of cruising down there sitting in the cockpit with the cockpit curtain closed wearing his slippers .
We didn't find the cold a problem. We used the three reverse cycle Climmas to dry and ventilate the boat and we blessed our Eberspacher which we ran on a daily basis. The Eberspacher agent back in England couldn't believe he was the first guy to service it after 12 years.

 Plus, we had two domestic fan heaters on board, 2 and 3 kw, so if we came back to really cold boat we could put nearly 10,000 Btu through it in minutes.  We did put bubblewrap on the inside of the main hatch in the saloon . We had no condensation in the bilges.

 Sealing off the cockpit with the curtain or a full enclosure makes a huge difference.

 Winter  liveaboards in Scandinavia and North America survive quite happily so I wouldn't have any qualms about keeping warm in a cold climate.  Oh, and  never forget the central heating powers of a good malt whisky.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Kilada, Greece


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Orion Martin <poonz1@...>
Sent: 13 January 2020 20:49
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Sailing higher latitudes
 
Hello everyone,

Just a quick question to see if anyone has had experience sailing higher latitudes, even as far as the Antarctic peninsula? I recall seeing a photo of an Amel Super Maramu in Svalbard, and my interest was piqued when Stefan asked about the prospect of installing a diesel heater to an SM. At some point I would like to sail to higher latitudes, and I'm fully aware of the need to look out for and push away bergy bits and growlers (small ice blocks) from the yacht as it can abrade (or worse damage irreparably) the exterior of a SM. However, I was concerned about the comfort level considering the SM is not insulated, so a diesel heater would be the absolute minimum required to endure a stint in higher latitudes.

Any thoughts or experience shared is most appreciated.

Orion


Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Scott, Mohammad et al,

I puchased Amelia in the West indies and sailed her to Greece. So have both tropical and temperate climate experience regarding the fridge system.

We have the same three fridge unit set up and the cooling pump lasts us quite well, probably along the 5000 hours estimate. I have noticed a few things;

1.The whole sea water cooling circuit is prone to shell growth.  This may originate in the main raw water strainer; so we now regularly clean it. The plastic basket that pulls out cleans up nicely by putting it in an acid bath. 

2. Due to that shell growth I have found fragments of shell within the valves on the fridge system circulating pump. These fragments are not good for the pump. 

3. I have found that the whole fridge sea water circuit, is also prone to shell growth. About once a season I take off the hose from the circuit and connect it to a hose pipe from the shore and blast fresh water through the whole thing. On one occasion I found that the copper manifold near the exit skin fitting was gunked up so the water could not flow. This required poking it out with a piece of wire. It was muddy crud!

4. When I bought the boat there were 4 spare fridge pumps aboard, the Amel set up installed two pumps so that it is quick to swap over. This all tells us that the system is prone to the pumps failing by design, and that the previous owner had issues with this.

5. When a pump fails, I swap to the spare and then strip down the failed one. To date the brushes have been good, bar one. Generally the problem has been shell fragments in the valves. So I clean it and put it back as the spare.

6. When swapping pumps I notice that the sea water flows as the pump is changed. In other words the pump is below the water line, so might not a non self priming pump work? 

Of course in the long term it would be great to improve the insulation for the fridge units, alas it is a big task, but frankly in this day and age polyurethane foam is not the best. Vacuum panels are the way to go. The fact that the units are running 80% of the time in the tropics tells me that the insulation is the real problem.

All the best,

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019
Kilada Greece




On 13 Jan 2020, at 19:28, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Scott;
 
We’re currently in the Med, so we’re on board full time for about 5 months every year. The fridges are obviously on all the time. We typically run two of the fridges and do not typically have a freezer on. I agree that the system will be working harder in the Caribbean and tropical conditions and are working closer to their design limits.
 
One of the reasons we selected an Amel, was because it had been tested over decades in conditions we expected to experience. I cannot comment based on personal experience about tropical conditions, since we have not experienced it with our Amel. I would look into the experience of all other Amel owners who have experienced the same conditions and if a significant percentage were experiencing what you and Arno have experienced, then I would conclude that there may be some design issues with the system. Otherwise I would suspect some other issue that may be unique to us. I typically suspect the design and component issues as a last resource, after I have eliminated all other possibilities.
 
Sorry that I cannot be of much more specific help, just another point of view.
 
Happy Sailing;
 
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
AMEL 54 #099
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 3:18 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump
 
Mohammad,

Do you live aboard full-time? Arno and I do and our experiences are similar. In tropical heat and 2 fridges and a freezer running, at any given time, it's very likely one of the compressors is running which means the pump is running. 

I would guess my pump runs 80+ % duty cycle. The Frigoboat pump interface really should have the ability to coordinate the compressor operation "schedule".

My understanding, confirmed by long discussions with pump engineers at Marco, is that brushes on any DC electric motor last 2500 hours on average and in the best circumstances 5000 hours. With the near continuous duty, the Flojet pumps get quite warm, which accelerates brush wear. If you take my experience with 6 month motor life and multiply it out: 180days * 24 hours a day * .8 duty cycle = 3456 hours, which is right within spec.

If your pump lasts 11 years in the same use case as Arno and myself, that would mean it's lasted over 75,000 hours!

Even March pumps, which are brushless, are only rated for 50,000 hours. But sadly for my setup, the March rep told me it wouldn't work since their pumps won't self-prime, confirmed by Arno's testing. I would really love to retain the self-priming capability of the Flojet pump but get a brushless motor on it, like Oliver has done.

-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



Power to 24v panel - easy to isolate?

Scott SV Tengah
 

All,

As mentioned in my long post about my lithium installation, I'm still trying to figure out a way to install a load disconnect solenoid that will be controlled by the Battery Management System (BMS). This would disconnect loads in the event of low voltage in one of the lifepo4 cells.

https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/47785

When I tried to install the Victron BP-220 battery protect, Victron's load disconnect solenoid, the 220 amp capacity was not nearly enough given that all of the loads ran through it. It melted pretty quickly. One solution suggested to me was only to have the 24v panel running through the BP-220. That makes sense because if we disconnect all power to the 24v panel, I believe all electrical devices are disabled. 

Have any of you tried to trace from the battery switch to the 24v panel? I have an A54, but I presume the SM and earlier are similar in this regard.


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Chat

 

Say hello to Willem Kroes from Bill Rouse.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:24 PM Stefan Deerberg <stefan.deerberg@...> wrote:
Great!
Thank you Bill.
Hopefully we make the contract for SM 351 shortly.

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Am 13.01.2020 um 21:57 schrieb CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:

You should be able to read anything available. You probably attempted to read before your membership in the Group was approved. 

If you need any other help, please respond to the group, or contact me directly.

Welcome to the Amel Yacht Owners Group. 

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:44 PM <stefan.deerberg@...> wrote:
Hello!

I‘m a new member and my wife and me are just buying our SM from 2002.

We want to learn about installing a diesel heating system but I can just read the first question of the chat but not the answers of the members.

What I have to do?

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Sailing higher latitudes

Orion Martin
 

Hello everyone,

Just a quick question to see if anyone has had experience sailing higher latitudes, even as far as the Antarctic peninsula? I recall seeing a photo of an Amel Super Maramu in Svalbard, and my interest was piqued when Stefan asked about the prospect of installing a diesel heater to an SM. At some point I would like to sail to higher latitudes, and I'm fully aware of the need to look out for and push away bergy bits and growlers (small ice blocks) from the yacht as it can abrade (or worse damage irreparably) the exterior of a SM. However, I was concerned about the comfort level considering the SM is not insulated, so a diesel heater would be the absolute minimum required to endure a stint in higher latitudes.

Any thoughts or experience shared is most appreciated.

Orion


Re: New companionway lock source

Arlo
 

That sounds like a great addition to anyone's Amel ! 


Re: New companionway lock source

Arlo
 

Hello Nick. Thanks. Maybe you or Karen will recognize the key. 


Re: Chat

Stefan and Anne Deerberg
 

Great!
Thank you Bill.
Hopefully we make the contract for SM 351 shortly.

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Am 13.01.2020 um 21:57 schrieb CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>:

You should be able to read anything available. You probably attempted to read before your membership in the Group was approved. 

If you need any other help, please respond to the group, or contact me directly.

Welcome to the Amel Yacht Owners Group. 

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:44 PM <stefan.deerberg@...> wrote:
Hello!

I‘m a new member and my wife and me are just buying our SM from 2002.

We want to learn about installing a diesel heating system but I can just read the first question of the chat but not the answers of the members.

What I have to do?

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Re: Chat

 

You should be able to read anything available. You probably attempted to read before your membership in the Group was approved. 

If you need any other help, please respond to the group, or contact me directly.

Welcome to the Amel Yacht Owners Group. 

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:44 PM <stefan.deerberg@...> wrote:
Hello!

I‘m a new member and my wife and me are just buying our SM from 2002.

We want to learn about installing a diesel heating system but I can just read the first question of the chat but not the answers of the members.

What I have to do?

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Chat

stefan.deerberg@...
 

Hello!

I‘m a new member and my wife and me are just buying our SM from 2002.

We want to learn about installing a diesel heating system but I can just read the first question of the chat but not the answers of the members.

What I have to do?

All the best 

Stefan 

Stefan Deerberg 

CEO Deerberg GmbH 
Unternehmer/ Entrepreneur

Lilienthalstraße 1
21335 Lüneburg
Germany

Mobil: +49 172 7757444



Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Scott;

 

We’re currently in the Med, so we’re on board full time for about 5 months every year. The fridges are obviously on all the time. We typically run two of the fridges and do not typically have a freezer on. I agree that the system will be working harder in the Caribbean and tropical conditions and are working closer to their design limits.

 

One of the reasons we selected an Amel, was because it had been tested over decades in conditions we expected to experience. I cannot comment based on personal experience about tropical conditions, since we have not experienced it with our Amel. I would look into the experience of all other Amel owners who have experienced the same conditions and if a significant percentage were experiencing what you and Arno have experienced, then I would conclude that there may be some design issues with the system. Otherwise I would suspect some other issue that may be unique to us. I typically suspect the design and component issues as a last resource, after I have eliminated all other possibilities.

 

Sorry that I cannot be of much more specific help, just another point of view.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 3:18 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 fridge circulation pump

 

Mohammad,

Do you live aboard full-time? Arno and I do and our experiences are similar. In tropical heat and 2 fridges and a freezer running, at any given time, it's very likely one of the compressors is running which means the pump is running. 

I would guess my pump runs 80+ % duty cycle. The Frigoboat pump interface really should have the ability to coordinate the compressor operation "schedule".

My understanding, confirmed by long discussions with pump engineers at Marco, is that brushes on any DC electric motor last 2500 hours on average and in the best circumstances 5000 hours. With the near continuous duty, the Flojet pumps get quite warm, which accelerates brush wear. If you take my experience with 6 month motor life and multiply it out: 180days * 24 hours a day * .8 duty cycle = 3456 hours, which is right within spec.

If your pump lasts 11 years in the same use case as Arno and myself, that would mean it's lasted over 75,000 hours!

Even March pumps, which are brushless, are only rated for 50,000 hours. But sadly for my setup, the March rep told me it wouldn't work since their pumps won't self-prime, confirmed by Arno's testing. I would really love to retain the self-priming capability of the Flojet pump but get a brushless motor on it, like Oliver has done.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Scott SV Tengah
 

Mohammad,

Do you live aboard full-time? Arno and I do and our experiences are similar. In tropical heat and 2 fridges and a freezer running, at any given time, it's very likely one of the compressors is running which means the pump is running. 

I would guess my pump runs 80+ % duty cycle. The Frigoboat pump interface really should have the ability to coordinate the compressor operation "schedule".

My understanding, confirmed by long discussions with pump engineers at Marco, is that brushes on any DC electric motor last 2500 hours on average and in the best circumstances 5000 hours. With the near continuous duty, the Flojet pumps get quite warm, which accelerates brush wear. If you take my experience with 6 month motor life and multiply it out: 180days * 24 hours a day * .8 duty cycle = 3456 hours, which is right within spec.

If your pump lasts 11 years in the same use case as Arno and myself, that would mean it's lasted over 75,000 hours!

Even March pumps, which are brushless, are only rated for 50,000 hours. But sadly for my setup, the March rep told me it wouldn't work since their pumps won't self-prime, confirmed by Arno's testing. I would really love to retain the self-priming capability of the Flojet pump but get a brushless motor on it, like Oliver has done.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

 

Thanks, Scott. I agree completely


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 2:46 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Agree, seems quite a few of us are on the same pages on this KISS
Cheers 
Alan 
Elyse SM 437 


Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arno;

We have never had any issues with these pumps. We are still on the original pump after 11 years and have the backup if the original dies.

Given the variant in life span and longevity that some are seeing in the same pump and design, I would suspect other potential problem areas that lead to the early demise of the pump. These may include flow restriction, differences in heat, moisture, in the operating environment, demand and cycling, etc.

I know this may not be very specific and helpful, but I usually suspect the mechanical units in the system that have functioned well in so many other identical installation, last.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
A54 #099

On Jan 12, 2020, at 4:11 AM, Arno Luijten via Groups.Io <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

Great to hear I’m not the only one that has trouble with these pumps. I asked Flojet about this and they simply do not carry a brushless variant of this pump. I did have a look at a few other pumps that look very nice on paper (magnetic-drive and brushless). The two I tested (both centrifugal) did not supply enough pressure to overcome the resistance in the hoses/pipes. I now have al lot of pumps to do other stuff with :-(

Currently running a 12V/1.5A Flojet Quiet Quad but I’m sure it will die within a year despite the claim to be for continuous duty. It does stay cooler then the “official” Frigoboat pump that is actually a 24V shower-pump running at 12V. The pressure of the 12V model is adequate.

So I’m also interested in a more resilient solution to this problem. 


Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

Great to hear I’m not the only one that has trouble with these pumps. I asked Flojet about this and they simply do not carry a brushless variant of this pump. I did have a look at a few other pumps that look very nice on paper (magnetic-drive and brushless). The two I tested (both centrifugal) did not supply enough pressure to overcome the resistance in the hoses/pipes. I now have al lot of pumps to do other stuff with :-(

Currently running a 12V/1.5A Flojet Quiet Quad but I’m sure it will die within a year despite the claim to be for continuous duty. It does stay cooler then the “official” Frigoboat pump that is actually a 24V shower-pump running at 12V. The pressure of the 12V model is adequate.

So I’m also interested in a more resilient solution to this problem. 


Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Alan Leslie
 

Agree, seems quite a few of us are on the same pages on this KISS
Cheers 
Alan 
Elyse SM 437 


Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Gotta have some Keep it simple Stupid.  Amel gives us a simple task to keep our engines running for years…

:-)


Jean-Pierre Germain



On 12 Jan 2020, at 19:16, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Im with you on that Scott.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 12 January 2020 at 14:13 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I would be concerned leaving the vent open on the Vetus because in the past, we've had to start the engine somewhat unexpectedly. For example, a rain-less squall came and resulted in a huge wind shift that the autopilot couldn't cope with, resulting in us getting backwinded. I fired up the engine and quickly got us around the right way. 

Might be a bit more complicated if you're dumping seawater and CO into the engine room.

I'll stick to running it for 15 minutes daily and enjoy the hot water showers!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel's suggestion to run the Volvo D3-110 (A54) daily while on passage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Im with you on that Scott.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 12 January 2020 at 14:13 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I would be concerned leaving the vent open on the Vetus because in the past, we've had to start the engine somewhat unexpectedly. For example, a rain-less squall came and resulted in a huge wind shift that the autopilot couldn't cope with, resulting in us getting backwinded. I fired up the engine and quickly got us around the right way. 

Might be a bit more complicated if you're dumping seawater and CO into the engine room.

I'll stick to running it for 15 minutes daily and enjoy the hot water showers!
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: A54 fridge circulation pump

Scott SV Tengah
 

Oliver, 

Could you show us a photo of this setup? A picture is worth a million words.

My second Flojet pump just died. With two fridges and a freezer running, the lifetime is 6 months, max. Upon disassembly, it appears the brushes have worn out and the commutator is heavily scored - looks like the Grand Canyon. I would love to retain the diaphragm pump but replace the motor as you have.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com