Date   

Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Ed:

Great work. When looking at these voltages I need to always know
what ground source you are referencing.

Ed wrote (enclosed in " " :

" Pin #4 53V with the meter set on AC and 24 V with the
meter set to DC. (I got the same results testing Fuse F1)"

I can't explain this. Where you using pin 1 as the ground for these
measurements? In fairness the only source I have for pin 4 being
220 VAC is from Dessalator (a notoriously unreliable source of
informatiion on this subject), as I have not measured or traced
those wires myself. To clear this up, perhaps you would do the
following and let me know what you find:
1. unplug plug 1 (P1)
2. with the 220 VAC breaker set and the 24 VDC panel switch ON
3. measure the voltage (both DC and AC) between pin 1 and pin 4
4. and (with power off) trace the red wire from pin 4 to see where
it goes (I can't make out its origin from the photos I have here.

"After a couple of minutes, Pin #5 thru Pin #11 all showed 24V DC –
did not test when this happened timewise. "

This would be appropriate as this essentiallly provides "activating"
24 VDC power (and return) to the following:
1, hi pressure pump relay,
2, low pressure pump relay, and
3. bypass solenoid.
The control side (i.e. sinking pins 7, 9, & 11 to ground) is controlled
through relays RY1, RY2, & RY3.
Furthermore this seems to imply that the logic board timer circuit
and some of the other ICs are functioning properly.

" I tested the pins on T1 and T2. with fuses to the "top":
T1 left pin 21.8V center pin ~ 0 right pin 23.5V
(should be ~ 12V?)"

Again, please verify what you were using as the ground for your
multi-meter when making these measurements. The right pin
should be 12 VDC, the center pin is ground (0 volts DC)), and the
left pin is the input from the full bridge rectifier/capacitor C1
combination. It is dependant on the input AC voltage on pin 4
(hence my need to know that voltage accurately). It may be that
T1 is shorted ?????, or the rectifier is gone????? and this is the cause
of your failure(s)?????? That would be a fairly logical failure mode.

" T2 left pin 21.6V center pin ~ 0 right pin 5.6V
(correct voltage)"

This seems correct except I would have expected a 12 VDC voltage
on the left pin. The approx 5 VDC output voltage is appropriate,
and is what is fed to all the ICs and is why the green logic board
LED is appropriately illuminated and your logic board timer is working.

" I next disconnected the Plug#1 and tested between pin #1 and
pin #5. It showed 53V with the meter set on AC and 24 V with the
meter set to DC but only with the rotary switch turned to "ON". With
just the 220V breaker, there was no voltage here."

From this I believe that the 53 VAC you are seeing is an erronious
characteristic of your digital voltmeter when looking at DC voltages
OR that there is a failure mode that is allowing AC to bleed on to the
DC circuits.
To trouble shoot this, I would:
1. with P1 plugged into the logic board
2. measure DC voltage between pins 1 and 4, and between pins 1 & 5
3. do this measurement in each of two configurations, with:
first: with the 220 VAC breaker set on ONLY, (rotary switch off).
second: 220 VAC breaker OFF and only the rotary panel switch on.

"Next I jumpered pin #5 to pin #8 and pin #1 to pin #9. The low
pressure pump came on and ran normally."

Great, that is as it should be. Jumpering pin 5 to 8 provides 24 VDC
to the low pressure pump relay, and jumpering pin 1 to pin 9 provides
a ground return for the relay, thereby achieving what RY1 does, that
is activating thelow pressure pump control relay (the 220 VAC control
relay).

So the manual work around is to have three single pole single
throw switchs. One switch each on pins 7, 9, and 11 with one pole
of each switch to each of those pins and the other pole going to
ground (i.e. pin 1). You then manually throw switch 1, activating
the low pressure pump, wait a bit, then throw switch 2, activating
the high pressure pump, then dial up the pressure until product
water is made, and finally when your electronic EC meter shows
you have truely good product water, you throw switch number three,
diverting the product water to your fresh water tanks. Then, if your
EC meter alarm sounds due to a failure resulting in the production
of poor quality water you turn off switch three and proceed to shut
down the system to make repairs. This is the "logic" that should
have been part of this board, but was not.

"406 KA7812" so it looks like the correct part"

I have confirmed that the output of T1 (aka Motorola 7812 or KA7812)
should be 12 VDC.

"BTW, the high pressure sensor switch was "open".

Thanks Ed. That confirms what I was theorizing.

"It shuts down the system at 68/70 bars."

That is between 986 and 1015 psi.

Regards,

Gary


Amel Maramu - keel rust at join

Shann, Mark V <shannmv@...>
 

Dear owners,

I have a 1985 Maramu and last year replaced the "fibreglass below water
line" to resolve some minor osmosis bubbles. This worked very well, but
now the hull is back in the water I have a line of rust that has
appeared at the fibreglass to iron join on the keel, mainly at the back
of the keel stock. I believe this is due to minor flexing between the
two materials and then water getting into a small crack.

Plan is to take the boat out of the water, remove a thin strip of
fibreglass over the join and put in a more flexible compound to seal the
join while allowing slightly more flexibility.

Has anyone seen this before, any ideas on the porposed plan and anyone
know of a good flexible compound to use?

Best Regards,

Mark Shann
Synnefoula


Holding tanks for Super Maramu

hibibif2006
 

I'm owning since 6 month a Super Maramu (056, 1991).
Since there are many areas where damping the toilet is forbidden,
my question is if anybody has installed a holding tank for the two
toilets,
and how it was done.

Thanks for any advise

Fedi


Re: {Disarmed} [Amel Yacht Owners] Sun Shade for Amel SM

Anne & John Hollamby <annejohn@...>
 

Hi Gary,
My solution would be to buy some plastic sun and/or wind shade material from a garden centre or agricultural supply shop. It is very very cheap and comes in various degrees of shading.The centre will also sell plastic clips to tie the material in place.It is light in weight and easy to cut with scissors. I would fix some light line on the rigging and hang the material over it with enough overlap to nearly reach the life lines. We have been using it ever since we got the boat in 2001 although we have never attempted to make an all over cover.
The total cost might be $50 or so!!

Best wishes from Turkey, John SM 319

----- Original Message -----
From: amelliahona
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:38 AM
Subject: {Disarmed} [Amel Yacht Owners] Sun Shade for Amel SM


Does anyone have photos of sun shades they have had made for their SM? I am planning on
repainting my deck stripes in a couple of months and am interested in a whole boat sun
shade.

Thanks , Gary Silver SM Hull # 335


Re: Watermaker Dead

edmund_steele
 

Gary,
I rechecked all of the pins on Plug #1. With the 220 V breaker
turned "ON" and the panel rotary switch turned "ON" and with the plug
connected to the board, I had:

Pin #4 53V with the meter set on AC and 24 V with the meter set to DC
(I got the same results testing Fuse F1)

After a couple of minutes, Pin #5 thru Pin #11 all showed 24V DC –
did not test when this happened timewise.

I tested the pins on T1 and T2. with fuses to the "top":
T1 left pin 21.8V center pin ~ 0 right pin 23.5V
(should be ~ 12V?)
T2 left pin 21.6V center pin ~ 0 right pin 5.6V
(correct voltage)

I next disconnected the Plug#1 and tested between pin #1 and pin #5.
It showed 53V with the meter set on AC and 24 V with the meter set to
DC but only with the rotary switch turned to "ON". With just the 220V
breaker, there was no voltage here.

Next I jumpered pin #5 to pin #8 and pin #1 to pin #9. The low
pressure pump came on and ran normally. I did not have enough jumpers
to try the high pressure pump as well. We are taking a trip to the
big city on Sunday and I will try and find some place that looks like
a Radio Shack. Back on board Friday.

The relays RY1, RY2 and RY3 are labeled 12V and T1 is labeled "Korea
406 KA7812" so it looks like the correct part.

My plan is to build a manual work-around as you suggested and then
try to figure out the control board issue.

BTW, the high pressure sensor switch was "open".

Ed


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@...>
wrote:

Regarding the Hi Pressure Switch:

I worte: "(Dessalator told me what it was once but I don't recall
now) in order to protect all the plumbing from excessively
high pressures."

I found my email from Dessalator and it said:

Dessalator: " It shuts down the system at 68/70 bars."

Gary


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Regarding the Hi Pressure Switch:

I worte: "(Dessalator told me what it was once but I don't recall
now) in order to protect all the plumbing from excessively
high pressures."

I found my email from Dessalator and it said:

Dessalator: " It shuts down the system at 68/70 bars."

Gary


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Ed. Thanks for the confirmations on the relay voltages.

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "edmund_steele" <edmundsteele@...> wrote:

" .....I could disconnect the Plug #1 (it does pull off, doesn't it?)"

Yes, the plugs do come off the Logic Board.

Ed wrote: "... by applying 24 volts of either polarity to the
Violet, green and orange pairs, override the control board. It is my
understanding that if you put 24V power on the HP (violet) and the
Bypass Solenoid Control (orange) about two minutes after applying 24V
power to the BP (green), then you will have duplicated what the
control panel does. Is this correct?"

That is basically correct. While polarity probably should not be an issue,
for the relays, in order to duplicate what is there the + (Positive)
polarity for the 24 VDC is on PLUG 1: Pin 6 (Violet for the Hi Pressure
Pump), Pin 8 (Green for the Low Pressure Pump), and Pin 10 (Orange
for the Bypass Solenoid), YOU WILL ALSO NEED TO PROVIDE A
GROUND RETURN BY JUMPERING PINS 7, 9, 11 & 1. Timing is
another issue. I believe that 60 seconds after the low pressure
pump starts, the Hi Pressure pump starts, and 60 seconds after
that the Bypass Solenoid Energizes.

Ed wrote: "On the control board, the only fuse with power to it is
the F1 which showed 24V. The other three showed continuity but
no power."

That is interesting. There should be 220 VAC between Pins 4 (220
VAC input) and Pin 1 (Ground). I believe that you previously
mentioned that the green LED on the board was illuminated as
well as the Red Control Panel LED. That idicates that 5 VDC power
is available on the Logic Board.

The 5 VDC comes from the 220 VAC. 220 VAC (supplied on pin
4 of Plug 1, with ground on Pin 1 of Plug 1) is rectified to DC by
Rect. & C1 to 63 VDC (see Photos Section Dessalator Watermaker
Service - Board Part Number photo), then regulated to 12 VDC by
T1 and 5 VDC by T2. The 5 VDC is used for all of the logic ICs
and also is what illuminates the Green Logic Board LED as well as
all the three LEDs on the Control Panel. If those LEDS are lit then
220 VAC is making it to the board.

As best as I can tell, the only real logic that works on the board,
other than the timers, is the high pressure switch logic. On the
back of the High Pressure Gauge/High Pressure Restrictor Valve
Manifold (rear of control panel lower left hand corner) is a
pressure switch which is NO (Normally Open) I believe. This is
set to close at a pre-determined pressure (Dessalator told me
what it was once but I don't recall now) in order to protect all
the plumbing from excessively high pressures. When it closes
it triggers a logic low that will unlatch one of the ICs and shut
the system down, triggering the Red Panel LED at the same time.

It is possible that this sensor has failed in the Closed position
and is causing your problem. You might check the continuity
of it by disconnecting Plug 2 and measuring across Pins 8 & 9.

Good luck and let me know what you find.

Gary


Re: Watermaker Dead

edmund_steele
 

Hi Gary,
Got up this morning and found all of your messages! (we are UTM +2).
Thank You!!

The BP relay is a "Finder 55.32" and is labeled 24V; The HP 4 relay
is also clearly labeled 24V. I did test the BP relay by using the
manual override and it fired up the pump which came up to it's normal
pressure.

It does seem like I could disconnect the Plug #1 (it does pull off,
doesn't it?) and by applying 24 volts of either polarity to the
violet, green and orange pairs, override the control board. It is my
understanding that if you put 24V power on the HP (violet) and the
Bypass Solenoid Control (orange) about two minutes after applying 24V
power to the BP (green), then you will have duplicated what the
control panel does. Is this correct?

On the control board, the only fuse with power to it is the F1 which
showed 24V. The other three showed continuity but no power.
Ed





--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@...>
wrote:

Ed

I just uploaded to the Files section a PDF file entitled "Logic
Board Plug 1 Wiring
Diagram.tcm.pdf. This may aid your trouble shooting.

Gary


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Ed

I just uploaded to the Files section a PDF file entitled "Logic Board Plug 1 Wiring
Diagram.tcm.pdf. This may aid your trouble shooting.

Gary


Re: Sun Shade for Amel SM

drdavegoodman
 

Hi Gary
I just posted a photo of the Sun Shade awning I have. Please let me
know if you want more pictures. It is in 3 parts, and does a great job.
Dave
s/v Bel Ami

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:

Does anyone have photos of sun shades they have had made for their
SM? I am planning on
repainting my deck stripes in a couple of months and am interested
in a whole boat sun
shade.

Thanks , Gary Silver SM Hull # 335


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

I am virtually positive that the control voltages to the BP and
HP pump relays are 24 volt DC.
On the other hand the control voltages for the three relays on
the logic board are 12 volts DC. Yet another mystery as to
why Dessalator designed it that way rather than using 24 VDC
relays on the logic board. Kind of flys in the face of keeping
it simple design philosophy.

Ed, if you can verify the control coil voltage ratings on the the
two LARGE relays in the electrical box (Labeled Low Pressure
Pump Relay and Hi Pressure Pump Relay on photo#16) it
would be very helpful. Just give me the complete exact part
numbers and I can verify the ratings.

Fuse F2 on the logic board provides protection for the Low
Pressure Pump Relay control ciruitry.

Fuse F3 on the logic board provides protection for the Hi
Pressure Pump Relay control circuitry.

T1 (transistor 1) on the logic board provides 12 VDC regulated
voltage for RY1, RY2, RY3 control coils.

RY1 is the Low Pressure Pump Control Voltage Relay

RY 2 is the Hi Pressure Pump Control Voltage Relay

RY3 is the Diverter Solenoid Control Voltage Relay. I believe
the solenoid is NO (Normally Open = in the bypass mode) and
is energized by RY3 sinking to ground (thus energizing the
solenoid to start product water flow to the fresh water tanks).

Regards, Gary Silver


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

CORRECTION:

"You can determine the control coil voltage for the Finder
relay by checking the 6th thru 8th digits of the relay part
number (i.e. 55.32.9.0xx) where xx is the control coil
voltage."

See the PDF Spec Sheet in the FILES SECTION under
DESSALATOR TECHNICAL INFORMATION.

Regards, Gary s/v Liahona Amel SM Hull # 335


Re: Watermaker Dead

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Ed Wrote:

"I have checked the input voltages to the unit and both 24 volts DC
supply and 220 volts AC are there. I measured 220 volts on the input
side of both of the motor relays but the output side was dead. The
logic board has it's green LED lit. I checked all of the four fuses on
the logic board and they are all OK. I tested the high pressure switch
and found it "open". Just in case it is supposed to be "closed", I
jumpered the terminals but this had no effect. The unit remains
"dead" with no pump operation whatsoever.

Is there anything else to check? Anyone have any ideas or suggestion?"

Good trouble shooting Ed. I presume that both relays in the
Dessalator Electrical Box are in the un-tripped condition? SEE
PHOTO 16 IN THE PHOTOS SECTION) As I recall the circuit breakers
are between the relays and the pumps (i.e. downstream in the
circuit from the relays).

As it is unlikely that both the BP (Brine Pump or low pressure pump)
and HP (High Pressure pump) relays have failed simultaneously, I
believe that your double pump failure is due to no control voltage
getting to either relay, (i.e. a logic board issue).

I just posted to the photos section of the Dessalator service folder
a photo of the Finder BP relay showing the manual override lever.

As you trouble shoot this please be very careful as there are lethal
voltages in the electrical box.

Try this:
1. Turn on the watermater breaker on the 220 volt panel in the galley
2. Turn on the watermaker with the front panel rotary switch.

Nothing should happen if you are in the same failure mode as
you described.

3. Manually activate the BP pump relay by rotating the manual
override lever (CCW I think). Rotating this lever manually closes
the relay contacts and should send power to the BP pump breaker
and thence to the BP pump.

If the BP pump operates then you have verified that
the control voltage to the BP relay isn't there, and presumably the
control voltage for the HP pump relay isn't there either. I do not
know (I don't have my materials with me) if the control voltage to
these relays is 12 or 24 volts. You can determine the control coil
voltage for the Finder relay by checking the 5th -7th digits of the
relay part number (i.e. 55.32.0xx) where xx is the control
coil voltage.

As I have posted before, the Dessalator logic board is non-
functional in the "detect unsafe water" mode. As installed it
serves only as a timer for motor start up. Thus a work around
is easily possible using two single pole single throw switches
to control the motor pump relays.

Let me know what you find and we can continue to try and trouble
shoot.

Regards, Gary s/v Liahona Amel SM Hull # 335


Watermaker Dead

edmund_steele
 

We have SM#331 with the 160 liter per hour watermaker. We pickled our
watermaker last January and attempted to re-commission it last week.
We first ran the unit with no pressure for an hour, in order to flush
out the chemicals and then raised the pressure to the normal
operating pressure. The unit began to operate with 110 liter / hour
output. We have seen this low output before when the unit has just
been put back into service after a lay-up and with a few hours of
operation, the output has gradually increased to the 150 liter / hour
range.

On this occasion, the unit shut itself off after 30 minutes of "full
pressure" operation and we found the red "Alarm" light was on.

The input filters had already been changed. I have checked the input
voltages to the unit and both 24 volts DC supply and 220 volts AC are
there. I measured 220 volts on the input side of both of the motor
relays but the output side was dead. The logic board has it's green
LED lit. I checked all of the four fuses on the logic board and they
are all OK. I tested the high pressure switch and found it "open".
Just in case it is supposed to be "closed", I jumpered the terminals
but this had no effect. The unit remains "dead" with no pump
operation whatsoever.

Is there anything else to check? Anyone have any ideas or suggestion?

Ed
SV DoodleBug


Re: Sun Shade for Amel SM

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Thanks Tony:

Do you have any photo's you could post? I just posted a photo (not of an Amel cover) in
the Bimini File Folder depicting something of which I was thinking.

Gary

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "agav8ter" <agav8ter@...> wrote:

Hello Gary.

I had a set made for our SM in Puerto La Cruz, VE lat year at Orient
Canvas. It is in three sections and has no gaps for light or water to
get in. I paid $2000.00 for it and while it was a lot of money it has
made such a difference!!!!!! One thing that I remember, was that with
ththe awnings up, our refrigeration cycled off!!!!

Good luck,
Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM #266


Re: Sun Shade for Amel SM

Ag Av8ter
 

Hello Gary.

I had a set made for our SM in Puerto La Cruz, VE lat year at Orient
Canvas. It is in three sections and has no gaps for light or water to
get in. I paid $2000.00 for it and while it was a lot of money it has
made such a difference!!!!!! One thing that I remember, was that with
ththe awnings up, our refrigeration cycled off!!!!

Good luck,
Tony
WORLD CITIZEN
SM #266




--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@...>
wrote:

Does anyone have photos of sun shades they have had made for their
SM? I am planning on
repainting my deck stripes in a couple of months and am interested in
a whole boat sun
shade.

Thanks , Gary Silver SM Hull # 335


Sun Shade for Amel SM

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Does anyone have photos of sun shades they have had made for their SM? I am planning on
repainting my deck stripes in a couple of months and am interested in a whole boat sun
shade.

Thanks , Gary Silver SM Hull # 335


bimini for Santorin or SM

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Eric---

Thanksf or the reply
And the reply on the stray power.
Richard SM 209


<kimberlite@optonline.net> wrote:

Richard,

It is identical to the one that was delivered from
the factory with the
boat. The only difference is that the pockets for
the support bars are sewn
and not seam welded.

Fair Winds,

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Piller
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:54 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bimini for
Santorin or SM



Eric, We too are looking for a new cockpit bimini
for
our SM. Do you have a photo or two or your new
master
piece?

thanks and Fair Winds

Richard SM 209
Challenge

--- eric <kimberlite@optonlin
<mailto:kimberlite%40optonline.net> e.net>
wrote:

Gary,

FYI-I had quantum sails in St martin make me a new
Bimini. $350- great
value, exact fit.

Fair Winds,

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of amelliahona
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bimini for
Santorin
or SM



Thanks Roy for posting bimini photos. I have
posted
some
additional photos in the Bimini Folder of a a very
attractive
bimini that I saw in Guadeloupe on a German SM. I
don't
recall the name of the boat. It was very well
done,
attractive
and gave great visibility.

Gary SM "Liahona" Hull # 335





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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Santorin/SM ceiling lights

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

John, we have a 1997 SM 209 and have just ordered a
group of LED dome lights from Defender in CT. They
are sold by ABI you can see them on the ABI web
site... BE SURE to order them at 24 volts lights.

Good luck
Richard SM 209


--- jonathan681684 <john.stonier@btinternet.com>
wrote:

I'm on my way to the US and though I would buy
replacement LED lights
for my 1997 Santorin Allegra. Anyone know what
diameter the original
light fittings are? I think the one on the salon
ceiling is larger than
the rest. Most probably the same dimensions as the
ones on the same
vintage SMs

many thanks in advance

john stonier




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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Santorin/SM ceiling lights

john martin <symoondog@...>
 

John, Sailors Solutions has a replacement led bulb that fits into the same socket as the halogen lights on the SM, if that is what you have. The advantage is you do not have to change the light fixture. The disavantage is that it cost $40.00 each. I have 2 of them (10 watt,24 volt) being shipped to me next week. The bulbs should outlast me,or so they say. Their web sight is sailorssolutions.com.

John SM 248 "Moondog"
From: "jonathan681684" <john.stonier@btinternet.com>
Reply-To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Santorin/SM ceiling lights
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 17:02:23 -0000

I'm on my way to the US and though I would buy replacement LED lights
for my 1997 Santorin Allegra. Anyone know what diameter the original
light fittings are? I think the one on the salon ceiling is larger than
the rest. Most probably the same dimensions as the ones on the same
vintage SMs

many thanks in advance

john stonier
_________________________________________________________________
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