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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
A few points from my understanding of the system.
The relay is driven by 12V. The system always drives the relay with 12V regardless of being operated from 24V. There is a reason for this which I won't elaborate. The 51385 pump controller drives the pump with 12v, regardless of the 24V power supply. You may measure 24V with no load (pump) connected, but with the correct pump connected (and running) you should measure 12V. If you measure 24V at the pump terminals while the correctly specified pump is operating then your 51395 has failed. Cheers Dean SY Stella A54-154 Sent from my iPhone X
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
Trevor Lusty
Sorry James,
I pushed the wrong button. Personally, the last engine in the world I would want is a Volvo, followed by, what is a centre line aft bunk doing in a serious blue water cruising boat? The 54 is height critical when you are seated, if you are the wrong height it can be very uncomfortable. The SM was actively designed and sailed by The Captain , the 54 was designed in an office. Both boats are fantastic, the SM is the finished article of a lifetime's passion and personal experience. Any really good design has a flow, where form follows function, which ever one is more comfortable for you has to be the right answer. The various electrics and the mechanical parts may fail you, but anything built by Amel will not. Good luck with your search. Trevor Lusty Ireland
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Jamie Wendell
I just checked again and under load (with my new 12V pump) the pump output from the Frigoboat interface is clearly showing 24 volts, and the 24V light is on, just as in Scott's photo. It is as Scott indicated 25 or so volts - not 12v.
Somehow the interface is converting the compressor output BACK to 24 volts. I looked at the schematic, but it is a bit sketchy and not very detailed. I got the 12-volt pump to run, but to get it running I had to replace the interface fuse with a 5 amp fuse. It is supposed to be 2 amp, and I have always needed a 3 amp. Now a 5 amp - wow?? I see the interface flashing "pump overload" every 5 minutes or so, and the pump is running very hot. That is likely because it is running at twice the speed. I am working the brushless motor deal and have a question for Oliver. I got it working, but still have not tried the motor itself, as it has to be bolted down first. I am sure I can get a solution there. In the meantime, at least I have refrigeration for now. The new Flojet is thermally protected, so I am pretty confident it will not burn up right away. One alternative might be to use a relay interface or DC converter that will in fact deliver 12 volts to the pump from another source in the engine room. We could use the interface pump output to drive the relay only. Dazed and confused as always? We have to come up with a solution here that can be replicated. Jamie Phantom, A54 #44
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
james Hosford
Yeah I their I read somewhere the nice windows in the salon cost you storage.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 2, 2020, at 4:56 PM, Trevor Lusty <trevlusty@...> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
Trevor Lusty
Hi James,
Either one will deliver what you aspire to do. One major difference that I have witnessed several times. Back in 2008 I spent a summer on the Amel pontoon in La Rochelle. Fascinating to watch and sometimes celebrate with new owners receiving their new 54. In every single case when they were trading out from the SM to the 54 there was a pile of their property sitting on the pontoon that came out of the SM but wouldn't fit into the 54.
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
james Hosford
Yep just waiting on a reply with a schedule, may not be one with all the COVID going on but seems like a no brainer and money well spent to me
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jul 2, 2020, at 4:34 PM, james Hosford via groups.io <jay.hosford@...> wrote:
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi Scott,
I’m pretty sure this thing is NOT supposed to output 24 volts. You may be able to check this on the website of Frigoboat. Regards, Arno Luijten, SV Luna, A54-121
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Here is the schematic showing that the power to the Frigoboat E51385 interface (Blue Box) comes directly from the Fan Output on the Danfoss compressor controller (1 of the 3 circled in red): This is out of a Frigoboat Manual" which states the Fan Output terminals always output 12 volts regardless of whether the unit is connected to 24 volts or 12 volts.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:34 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Scott SV Tengah
That is very weird. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but while the pumps are running, I stuck my test leads on positive and negative on the Pump +/- output on the interface. Clearly read 26v or more. How is your pump life given your pumps are getting 12v to them. Any issues with your saloon freezer getting cold enough?
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 11:26 AM Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
james Hosford
Thank you so much for the info it is greatly appreciated.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I forgot about the staysail a lot of 53 owners have said the wish they had one
On Jul 2, 2020, at 4:17 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi all, I have 2 pumps set up. A 12v and 24v, both work. My panel indicates that it is running 24v which is lit up. I am metering 12v going into both pumps. Just changed to make sure and they are both running OK. I would like to help buy this fridge pump thingy is something else. I have a few spare pumps. Both 12v and 24v. Very Best Barry and Penny “SV Lady Penelope II” Amel 54. #17 Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique
n Jul 2, 2020, at 16:55, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
Mohammad Shirloo
I would definitely take Bill up on his offer. If we had access to Bill’s knowledge at the time we purchased our Amel, we would have had a much steeper learning curve.
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2020 10:51 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] sm 53 vs 54
Both the SM & the 54 are good Amels. There are differences, advantages, and disadvantages.
You may not be aware, but I offer 1 hour free consulting to non-owners of Amel yachts.
Maybe you should check this out.
Bill
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:38 PM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
Mohammad Shirloo
We reviewed both boats thoroughly. For us, It really came down to staysail, which we have come to use in most conditions above 25 knots apparent with wind forward of the beam, a bit extra space due to the beam being caring aft, more spacious master cabin with walk around master bed, upgraded finishes, Washer/Dryer and availability of more newer models on the market. There are many more smaller differences, but these were the main ones for us.
Both boats will get you where you want to go safely and in comfort and in my opinion, only limited to the crew experience. You will get substantially more value than any other boat on the market, a great yard that stands behind their product with decades of support and a group like this that jumps in to help anyone they can. Also, you have to figure that the extra $s you pay for a 54 is not totally lost and you will, most likely, get some or most of it back at the time of sale.
Happy Sailing;
Mohammad and Aty B&B Kokomo AMEL 54 #099
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of james Hosford via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2020 11:14 AM To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io; main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] sm 53 vs 54
Mark, That's kind of my point I'm more interested in what you see as a pro or con. You have much more experience than I do. Now I may decide your opinion on something isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but I do think it's important to hear those opinions. Never know what I might learn.
Cruising couple, but must be able to single hand. Will be taking crew from time to time. Boat will be for world cruising/live aboard. It professional but grew up with a boaty diesel mechanic father. Have rebuilt gasoline and diesel engines and winter chores included re varnishing our 15' wood runabout. Don't mind a project but would like to find a boat that has been taken care of and appreciated by their owner.
I just thought it could be informative, given the money. Which you would buy? If you are paying cash is the 54 worth the extra to you or would you pocket the difference and get the 53.
I was honestly all in on the 54 for but recently thought, well how many guests are you actually going to have? Do you really like it 200g more than the 53 which seems to be the going difference? Just wondered what others thoughts were.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:57:00 PM CDT, james Hosford via groups.io <jay.hosford@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I will take you up on that.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:50:57 PM CDT, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Both the SM & the 54 are good Amels. There are differences, advantages, and disadvantages.
You may not be aware, but I offer 1 hour free consulting to non-owners of Amel yachts.
Maybe you should check this out.
Bill
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:38 PM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Scott SV Tengah
Arno, I just measured and got 26+ volts. The Frigoboat interface itself indicator shows 24v.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote: Hi Jamie,
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Hi Jamie,
I’m surprised you measure 24 volt. When I did the same I measured exactly half the voltage of the 24 volt system (about 13 volts when you are on shore power). Did you measure under load? The whole Frigoboat system is made up in such a way it does not matter if your ships system is 12 or 24 volt. The compressor also reduces the actual supply voltage of the compressor motor to 12 volt irrespectively of the power-supply. I recommend you check it once more. Maybe use a lightbulb to make up some load. If you still measure 24 Volt your switchbox may be broken, also explaining you extreme short lifespan of the pump. Regards, Arno Luijten SV Luna, A54-121
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Scott SV Tengah
I just tested - you are right Jamie! The frigoboat interface outputs 24v (actually around 26.5 on my boat) to the pump!
I replaced the compressor a while back and had concerns because the Hella relay that came with the compressor was 12v. I mentioned this to Penguin and also asked about the pump because if you look up the part number for the Flojet 4105-343, it clearly states intermittent duty. Below is the email I received from Penguin UK regarding the relay and pumps: "Hi Scott,
The 12V relays are supplied as standard with the compressors. If the boat is 24V you need to use the pump interface – see wiring diagram attached. Pump is also correct, we source them direct from the manufacturer in the UK which is why they have different branding, (it is a 24V pump that is run at 12V through the pump interface, which means it is then OK for continuous duty (This is the only pump we supply for the Frigoboat systems)." Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)
Scott SV Tengah
Jamie - 343 is the suffix you need. Possible alternate solution: I was explicitly told by Penguin UK that the 4105-343 24v pump was tested by Frigoboat UK for continuous use as long as it was fed 12v as it would run much slower and therefore not heat up nearly as much. They told me the Frigoboat interface feeds 12v to the pump. You are certain it feeds 24v to the pump? From my understanding, brush wear above a certain temp is exponential, so that would make sense that the 4105-343 is dying prematurely if the pump is running at 24v. Is a solution therefore to get a voltage divider and continue to run the 4105-343??
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
james Hosford
I'm sorry In America so that would be 200,000. 54's are going between 450,000 and 500,000, conservatively you can get a 53 for 200,000 less than that. Purchase cash is separate from cruising cash, it would be nice to move that much over to the cruising amount but not necessary. I will be retired when doing this and have good pensions coming in, the boat will be paid for. So it does turn into, well get the more expensive boat with the nicer layout, you can't take the money with you vs is it really worth the extra money just get the 53. Or even the 53 is better and you just don't know it yet....etc Sorry if this offends anyone I'm not trying to be crass or offend any of our international friends. Just weighing my purchasing options and asking questions and seemed like the group wanted to know more about my situation to be able to help
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 01:48:28 PM CDT, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:
James,
IMO – both boats are great boats. They have multiple advantages over other production yachts. Both will get you from A to B safely.
You don’t state where you are located (200g is not a currency). I’m assuming you are USA. If so, Bill and Joel are great resources. If not, in Europe Olivier Beauté is a person to contact.
Regarding the 200g, if you are full-time cruising, this will go a long way to being able to take tours, eat out, marina stays, trips home, add a dive-tank compressor etc. For us, this is about 3 years cruising budget. But then again, this amount of money might not be that important to you.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of james Hosford via groups.io
Mark, That's kind of my point I'm more interested in what you see as a pro or con. You have much more experience than I do. Now I may decide your opinion on something isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but I do think it's important to hear those opinions. Never know what I might learn.
Cruising couple, but must be able to single hand. Will be taking crew from time to time. Boat will be for world cruising/live aboard. It professional but grew up with a boaty diesel mechanic father. Have rebuilt gasoline and diesel engines and winter chores included re varnishing our 15' wood runabout. Don't mind a project but would like to find a boat that has been taken care of and appreciated by their owner.
I just thought it could be informative, given the money. Which you would buy? If you are paying cash is the 54 worth the extra to you or would you pocket the difference and get the 53.
I was honestly all in on the 54 for but recently thought, well how many guests are you actually going to have? Do you really like it 200g more than the 53 which seems to be the going difference? Just wondered what others thoughts were.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:57:00 PM CDT, james Hosford via groups.io <jay.hosford@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I will take you up on that.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:50:57 PM CDT, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Both the SM & the 54 are good Amels. There are differences, advantages, and disadvantages.
You may not be aware, but I offer 1 hour free consulting to non-owners of Amel yachts.
Maybe you should check this out.
Bill
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:38 PM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
James,
IMO – both boats are great boats. They have multiple advantages over other production yachts. Both will get you from A to B safely.
You don’t state where you are located (200g is not a currency). I’m assuming you are USA. If so, Bill and Joel are great resources. If not, in Europe Olivier Beauté is a person to contact.
Regarding the 200g, if you are full-time cruising, this will go a long way to being able to take tours, eat out, marina stays, trips home, add a dive-tank compressor etc. For us, this is about 3 years cruising budget. But then again, this amount of money might not be that important to you.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia www.creampuff.us
From:
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On
Behalf Of james Hosford via groups.io
Mark, That's kind of my point I'm more interested in what you see as a pro or con. You have much more experience than I do. Now I may decide your opinion on something isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but I do think it's important to hear those opinions. Never know what I might learn.
Cruising couple, but must be able to single hand. Will be taking crew from time to time. Boat will be for world cruising/live aboard. It professional but grew up with a boaty diesel mechanic father. Have rebuilt gasoline and diesel engines and winter chores included re varnishing our 15' wood runabout. Don't mind a project but would like to find a boat that has been taken care of and appreciated by their owner.
I just thought it could be informative, given the money. Which you would buy? If you are paying cash is the 54 worth the extra to you or would you pocket the difference and get the 53.
I was honestly all in on the 54 for but recently thought, well how many guests are you actually going to have? Do you really like it 200g more than the 53 which seems to be the going difference? Just wondered what others thoughts were.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:57:00 PM CDT, james Hosford via
groups.io <jay.hosford@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I will take you up on that.
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 12:50:57 PM CDT, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Both the SM & the 54 are good Amels. There are differences, advantages, and disadvantages.
You may not be aware, but I offer 1 hour free consulting to non-owners of Amel yachts.
Maybe you should check this out.
Bill
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 12:38 PM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:
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Re: sm 53 vs 54
amelforme
I have owned two 53’ Super Maramus as well as a Amel 54, as have several other people in this group and can tell you all about the differences and relative pluses an minuses. I also sold all the 53’s and 54’s that were sold to customers in North America so I am pretty familiar with why people like which one better.
All the best, Joel
JOEL F. POTTER ~ CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST, L.L.C. The Experienced AMEL Guy UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Courtney Gorman via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 2:22 PM To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] sm 53 vs 54
Contact Joel Potter he is a wealth of information Cheers Courtney Trippin 54#101
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