On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott,

    That is a strange one.  I would try measuring the voltage at the motor during operation to what is going on.  If you lose power at the BT during your test then back track the BT wiring  while operating the BT to find the fault.  If you have voltage at the motor when it stops during your test then look into the motor.  Maybe a relay issue?   Best of luck.  

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 9:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Our bow thruster was indeed wired through a switch, too.

I've worked with Sleipner to try to isolate the intermittent functioning problem to no avail. It runs full speed and then stops momentarily and then will start again. No slowdown to indicate drop in voltage. The Amel joystick has been cleaned and tested and shows nearly zero ohms on activation.

Every switch and thermal protection within the Sidepower thruster has been "jumpered" and it still doesn't work. I was hoping the problem was the main battery switch but I moved the positive bow thruster supply wire from the secondary side of the switch directly to the battery side. The only thing left is the motor itself but the brushes and commutator look perfect. The annoying bit is that this motor is only a year old and Sleipner wants me to ship it back to them from Panama at my cost, wait for them to test it, get warranty approval, ship it back (at my cost) and pay customs duty. I might as well buy a new motor! With a canal appointment, I clearly don't want to do this.

Anyone have any other ideas on what I should check? I haven't tested voltage at the BT during operation because I don't have alligator clips, but the fact that the BT either runs full speed or not at all, without any slowdown indicates to me that it's not an issue with enough voltage getting to the BT.


--Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:00 PM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:



Porter,

 

That seems like a good idea to me. We’re in Grenada – I will make some enquiries. If not here then maybe I will just refill the tank for now and wait until I find a place that has this facility and hope they can deal with an almost full tank.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io
Sent: 09 February 2020 12:14
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Paul  Where are you?  

We used a professional fuel polisher person who came to the baot and with a pump and a bunch of filters.  He washed the tank with the fuel and filtered all the fuel and put back in the tank.  Tank and fuel was spotless afterwards.  It's a service available in many places.  That may be the way to go.

 

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,

 

My dip stick tells me I have a fairly thick coat of sludge at the bottom of the tank. I have just done a short but fairly rough passage, motor sailing, with 170 litres in the tank, and did not have any fuel problem. I have been aiming to get it as low as I can before figuring out how to clean the tank. Presumably I should suck out the remaining fuel – about 150 litres now – then use some combined mechanical/chemical means of cleaning the bottom. Not really sure how to go about that so any advice would be well appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

Hi Scott, I really can't say what I do is right, but here are a few things that seem to work for me so far. 

1) I try to use more than half the tank before refueling to replace the old with fresh. That is dependent on having it available when you need it, but we are in the Caribbean. 2) we have avoided biodiesel. 3) I use StarTron treatment as that has been what was available when I have needed to replenish. 4) I leave the tank full during the off season to reduce condensation  from air that enters thru the vent during the daily temperature cycles. 5) I have inspected my tank twice in 4 years when there was less than 200 liters in the tank (I could not see the bottom of the tank when there was more than 200 liters). The walls and floor we're shiny, but both times there were several small 50cm2 patches of slime on the floor. I attached a 2 meter length of small fuel hose to my fuel dipstick with a couple zip-ties and then stuck the end of the hose into the slime spot and sucked it up with a 5 liter vacuum fluid (oil)extractor.  6) I also shine a light thru the racor bowls regularly to monitor if any sludge is getting into them.

 

The risk of running the fuel tank low is that rough seas will break loose and break up any accumulated sludge.  

 

Best regards,  Daniel Carlson on sm #387, sv BeBe

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020, 9:28 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@... wrote:

My paranoia about my Volvo D3-110 (rev c) has been kicked back into high gear. I think this applies to anyone with a diesel engine but particularly with the hyper sensitive D3-110.

I know a few A54 owners with failed D3-110 due to water ingress. We've discussed that on another thread. I'll leave that discussion there.

Recently I met a HR46 owner who had to lag behind the World ARC ($$$$!) because of diesel bug issues on his D3-110C. Another HR48 owner had the same issue and in both cases, the engine died and wouldn't start back up. His tank was disgusting, apparently. I've opened my inspection hatches and my tank is nearly pristine. But I am not going to rest on my laurels. 

What do you guys do to keep your fuel system clean? Here's my procedure and I hope I can improve on it with your help:

1) Diesel only from places that get high turnover. We aim for duty-free, so they're usually in high demand.
2) Outside of the US and EU, we use the Baja filter. Damn slow at only around 8liters per minute, but you gotta do what you gotta do... That said, I know of a few owners in the EU who have had diesel bug - seems more prevalent with biodiesel.

One idea to reduce filling time (900/8 = nearly two hours!!) is to use the Baja Filter to fill up our spare 20liter jerry can and then inspect the Baja filter. If all is good, just fill up the boat without the filter.

3) I use BioBor JF. I don't know if it's the best, but I found a bottle in the US that was enough to treat 10,000 liters, so that was my decision making criteria.
4) I have 10 micron Racor filters in the water separator filters. I carry 15 filters aboard.  Two micron in the Volvo, per spec.
5) Pray.

What do you all do to ensure you aren't stricken by the bug?


-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

Paul  Where are you?