Date   
Re: Chain and Anchor

Paul Brown
 

I have only had bad experiences with the Wasi when anchoring in anything other than sand, it drags unexpectedly and very difficult to set in mud or sea grass and sometimes it won’t set,,, I upgraded to a 55kg Spade with a Douglas Marine swivel and it performs excellently, sets quick and very well in mud or sea grass, it also fits well on the A55 spit and releases and stows perfectly every time correctly 

I hope this assists

Regards Paul Fortuna 55#17


On 2 Sep 2019, at 8:17 am, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

Re: Chain and Anchor

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Herbert,

Anchor discussions are always tricky but interesting and indeed important. The Wasi Buegel was invented in the 1980’s and really was one of the first of the new generation.  My problem with it is that it only digs in so far and will not continue to penetrate. This is fine in sand and firm mud but when it come to very soupy silty mud it simply drags whereas I believe the ROCNA and the SPADE and many other modern anchors dig deep. It also has quite a small surface area.

Kind regards

Nick

On 2 Sep 2019, at 07:17, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

Re: Santorin Balooner

Herbert Lackner
 

Eamonn, partly furling worked fine for us when the wind got stronger, to be on the safe side we reduce size in the night, never had any problems. did not change the setup during our atlantic crossing, only furling in and out. needs above 12 knots of true wind when there are waves. no problem in more then 30knots when partly furled

btw: our balooner has been made by Dave Benjamin, works very fine.

Re: Chain and Anchor

Herbert Lackner
 

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

Re: Chain and Anchor

Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

Hallo 
I have a 100m 10 mm stainless steel chain and a Mantus stainless steel 85 lbs steel ANKER. The Price for the Mantus is about half as the Rocna. I have it 9 month now with no problem at all. 
I get it from Marine Warehouse when I was in Panama. 
Fare winds 
Heinz 
Quetzal, sm 2000, 292

Mit freundlichen Grüßen 
Heinz Stutenbāumer
Dachdeckermeister


Am 01.09.2019 um 20:03 schrieb ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...>:

The original stainless anchor is probably a WASI Beugel anchor. It is a good anchor for sure but in my opinion your 33kg Rocna is much better and nearly 30% bigger.

I recently demoted my 30kg WASI to the second anchor and bought a 37Kg Spade, as the primary anchor. I can confirm that the Spade appears to be superior by a large margin. My evidence is of course anecdotal but:

I recently left Amelia in a harbour in Kefalonia for a few weeks. She is fixed to a mooring block plus my anchor. We are in 3m depth. The Spade is set with 50m of chain. The bottom is not great holding. There is about 30cm of dead organic matter then soft silty mud. I dived it. I set the Spade with full RPM and she went down and set solid. I then thought it would be interesting to set the WASI too.After all I was going to leave Amelia whilst I returned to the UK. I laid it with the dinghy; 10m chain and 50m of rope. Remember the boat is stern to a dock and fixed with a mooring and the Spade. I started to winch in the WASI until it was just taught. I then had a coffee and left it to settle.  
I then began to winch in on the WASI. It kept coming all the way home ploughing a nice furrow in the sea bed!!!! So it ended up back on the bow roller.
So there you have it...
By the way whilst enjoying my evening drink several yachts came in to anchor, mostly using Delta’s and most of them either dragged or could not get a set....so the holding is indeed poor.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019

On 1 Sep 2019, at 15:20, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Re: Santorin Balooner

heinz@quetzal.berlin
 

Hello 
When crossing the Atlantic and the Pacific, We only rolled up the balooner as far as necessary. When the thunderstorm was over it was easy to roll it out again. 
We never had any damage to the sail. Even if one is alone at the helm. 
But at night it is necessary to use the radar, so the thunderstorms can be seen very well and you can reef in time. 

Fare winds 
Heinz, Sailing yacht Quetzal, SM 2000, 292


Am 01.09.2019 um 22:41 schrieb Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...>:

Hi, I have been wondering about what to do when the true wind gets to 20 knots.  Amel says if the true wind exceeds 20 knots then the balooner and foresail may be rolled together.  I wondered if the documentation meant fully rolled together (to protect the nylon balooner from ripping) or just reefed, so partly furling the 2 sails together and continue with no risk of damage to the balooner.

Based on Ian’s experience, partly furling seems to work fine.  Dave suggested it would distort the balooner to have it reefed in over 20 knots.  What is the experience and recommendations of this group?

I have only used the main balooner a dozen times for practice day trips and one overnight so far, and always removed it when the wind got to 15 knots true, up to now.  I hope to have the twin headsails up all the time for an upcoming Atlantic crossing, but this 20 knots Amel recommendation was always ambiguous to me.

Thanks

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Alghero, Sardinia, Italy.

Re: Santorin Balooner

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi, I have been wondering about what to do when the true wind gets to 20 knots.  Amel says if the true wind exceeds 20 knots then the balooner and foresail may be rolled together.  I wondered if the documentation meant fully rolled together (to protect the nylon balooner from ripping) or just reefed, so partly furling the 2 sails together and continue with no risk of damage to the balooner.

Based on Ian’s experience, partly furling seems to work fine.  Dave suggested it would distort the balooner to have it reefed in over 20 knots.  What is the experience and recommendations of this group?

I have only used the main balooner a dozen times for practice day trips and one overnight so far, and always removed it when the wind got to 15 knots true, up to now.  I hope to have the twin headsails up all the time for an upcoming Atlantic crossing, but this 20 knots Amel recommendation was always ambiguous to me.

Thanks

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Alghero, Sardinia, Italy.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New size for Bow Thruster seal

Mark McGovern
 

Mike,

I did my first bowthruster service this past winter and used a 29x42x8 seal.  It was a tight fit but it works.  The seal I replaced was also a 29mm ID seal.  There was no oil leaking from the seal while the boat was sitting on the hard after the service and the oil is still clear - not the "cafe creme" looking mixture of oil and water.  However, when I disassembled the unit to replace the bearings (preventatively) I could feel a small groove in the shaft where the previous seal sat.  The shaft was also discolored with a brown-ish stain at that point:



I consulted with Olivier Beaute and he told me that if I felt any kind of groove that I should try to gently sand it out with 600 grit sandpaper and water.  He also said that if I could NOT feel anything that I should NOT sand it but just clean it as sanding the shaft comes with it's own risks.  I measured the shaft OD at the point in the shaft where the oil seal sits with calipers and found that it was about 29.5mm so there was plenty of "meat" on the shaft for a 29mm ID oil seal so I wet-sanded the shaft smooth, re-assembled everything and so far, so good.  However, a 30mm ID seal would have likely resulting in a static oil leak like you have and certainly would have allowed water to enter the bowthruster during use.  Consider taking the entire bowthruster shaft apart, measure the shaft OD and inspect it for any damage where the oil seal sits.  Also check the OD for any damage as well. 

-- 
Mark McGoverntly 
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Chain and Anchor

ngtnewington Newington
 

The original stainless anchor is probably a WASI Beugel anchor. It is a good anchor for sure but in my opinion your 33kg Rocna is much better and nearly 30% bigger.

I recently demoted my 30kg WASI to the second anchor and bought a 37Kg Spade, as the primary anchor. I can confirm that the Spade appears to be superior by a large margin. My evidence is of course anecdotal but:

I recently left Amelia in a harbour in Kefalonia for a few weeks. She is fixed to a mooring block plus my anchor. We are in 3m depth. The Spade is set with 50m of chain. The bottom is not great holding. There is about 30cm of dead organic matter then soft silty mud. I dived it. I set the Spade with full RPM and she went down and set solid. I then thought it would be interesting to set the WASI too.After all I was going to leave Amelia whilst I returned to the UK. I laid it with the dinghy; 10m chain and 50m of rope. Remember the boat is stern to a dock and fixed with a mooring and the Spade. I started to winch in the WASI until it was just taught. I then had a coffee and left it to settle.  
I then began to winch in on the WASI. It kept coming all the way home ploughing a nice furrow in the sea bed!!!! So it ended up back on the bow roller.
So there you have it...
By the way whilst enjoying my evening drink several yachts came in to anchor, mostly using Delta’s and most of them either dragged or could not get a set....so the holding is indeed poor.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019

On 1 Sep 2019, at 15:20, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Re: Chain and Anchor

Ian Park
 

Hi Herbert,
Can’t comment on the chain as I’ve never had stainless. Guess it might settle better in the anchor locker.
We have the 25kg Rocna on our Santorin and not had any problem with it. With 100m of 10mm galvanised chain I was concerned about the total weight on the bow. Mind you I haven’t yet put out more than 50 metres.
I’ve also got a Spade stowed away and 37 and 16 Fortress. I had a 45lb CQR but gave it away to the OCC Port Officer in Dominica. Would work well on one of the local fishing boats!
Would be interesting to hear from other Santorin owners.

Best wishes

Ian and Linda

Ocean Hobo SN 96
Currently in the Limfjord, Denmark waiting for a good wind for Scotland!

Re: Chain and Anchor

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

I ordert now
One spade ancor Seewater Aluminium 18,5 Kg
for second and stern ancor and 28 kg seewater Aluminium for main ancor
I hope it is a god concept

Best
SM Balu
222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Re: Chain and Anchor

Matt Salatino
 

Keep in mind, galvanized, steel chain is more ductile than stainless (a good thing) and has higher tensile strength. Those are positives. Oh, also costs less.
Negative is, when the galvanizing wears, it begins to rust.

Typically, a 33 kg Rocna will perform better than most 25 kg anchors......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 1, 2019, at 10:20 AM, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Chain and Anchor

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Re: Help! SM deck stripes

Matt Salatino
 

The paint we bought locally in Trinidad, from a shop by Coral Cove, was much better than Brightsides. Didn’t flake off like brightsides, one part, and easy to apply. Of course I used it as a boot stripe, not on my deck. He could match anything.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 31, 2019, at 11:48 PM, Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:

Hi All,
This is a cut and paste from a friend who was going to paint my stripes on my SM in Trinidad. 
"went to budget marine but don't have brown in paint in Interlux Brightside went to the paint matcher but he said that brand of paint can't be match,he suggested another one that uses a primer,so unless you can get a one part paint from overseas and send it to me,the only option down here is a two part paint which is double the labor, budget say they only have, blue,black, white and gray in that brand of paint, wait to hear from you"
I thought I read that someone used Brightside on their decks which lasted a while. Anywho I'm in the US now till Oct. Any idea on how to get brown paint to Trinidad. Or other options. Thx for your time. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

 

Re: Help! SM deck stripes

Ian Townsend
 

We used Brightside Hatteras Off White and a flattening agent. Very close match.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
US East Coast

On Sep 1, 2019, at 6:27 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Chuck,

He's right. I had an issue with mixing Brightside to brown.

If he is talking about the paint supply shop in Coral Cove Marina, I trust the opinion of the owner of that shop. We had him mix 1 part cream color for the faux caulking. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019, 10:48 PM Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
Hi All,
This is a cut and paste from a friend who was going to paint my stripes on my SM in Trinidad. 
"went to budget marine but don't have brown in paint in Interlux Brightside went to the paint matcher but he said that brand of paint can't be match,he suggested another one that uses a primer,so unless you can get a one part paint from overseas and send it to me,the only option down here is a two part paint which is double the labor, budget say they only have, blue,black, white and gray in that brand of paint, wait to hear from you"
I thought I read that someone used Brightside on their decks which lasted a while. Anywho I'm in the US now till Oct. Any idea on how to get brown paint to Trinidad. Or other options. Thx for your time. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

 

Re: Help! SM deck stripes

 

Chuck,

He's right. I had an issue with mixing Brightside to brown.

If he is talking about the paint supply shop in Coral Cove Marina, I trust the opinion of the owner of that shop. We had him mix 1 part cream color for the faux caulking. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Aug 31, 2019, 10:48 PM Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
Hi All,
This is a cut and paste from a friend who was going to paint my stripes on my SM in Trinidad. 
"went to budget marine but don't have brown in paint in Interlux Brightside went to the paint matcher but he said that brand of paint can't be match,he suggested another one that uses a primer,so unless you can get a one part paint from overseas and send it to me,the only option down here is a two part paint which is double the labor, budget say they only have, blue,black, white and gray in that brand of paint, wait to hear from you"
I thought I read that someone used Brightside on their decks which lasted a while. Anywho I'm in the US now till Oct. Any idea on how to get brown paint to Trinidad. Or other options. Thx for your time. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

 

Help! SM deck stripes

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Hi All,
This is a cut and paste from a friend who was going to paint my stripes on my SM in Trinidad. 
"went to budget marine but don't have brown in paint in Interlux Brightside went to the paint matcher but he said that brand of paint can't be match,he suggested another one that uses a primer,so unless you can get a one part paint from overseas and send it to me,the only option down here is a two part paint which is double the labor, budget say they only have, blue,black, white and gray in that brand of paint, wait to hear from you"
I thought I read that someone used Brightside on their decks which lasted a while. Anywho I'm in the US now till Oct. Any idea on how to get brown paint to Trinidad. Or other options. Thx for your time. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New size for Bow Thruster seal

Mike Ondra
 

We just replaced the prop shaft seal with the 29mm lip seal. Aletes was on the hard and the bow thruster was dipping oil the next day. Thinking we may have damaged the lip seal during installation, we replaced it with our spare 29 mm seal. Oil was leaking at the lip seal within minutes of being added. Could it be that the slightly smaller opening diameter of the lip seal is causing a distortion that defeats its effectiveness? Will try a 30 mm as see if that works. Have others had success with 29mm seals?
Mike
Aletes SM#240

Re: Emptying the ( waste tank) on a 1977 meltem53

Craig & Katherine Briggs
 

Three miles off shore. 😎

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

Sorry guys, just read that last post and the 2nd para should read...

The problem was simply that the seawater pump is not commanded to turn on IF the ambient temp is below the set point.

I couldn’t find a way to edit my post?

cheers
Dean