Date   
Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Mark, Bill, Matt & Danny,

Thanks for posting. 

It turned out that the problem I was having was nothing to do with the capacitor, corrosion or the rotor sticking. The clue was in the lack of drive voltage to the pump.  My capacitor is good, there is no corrosion and the rotor turns freely.

The problem was simply that the seawater pump is not commanded to turn on until the ambient temp is below the set point.  In warm climates this usually happens immediately, but if the air temp is 15degrees as it is here, the pump is not commanded to turn on because it’s simply not required by the system.

Bill, that’s probably good info for your book as I’m sure this happens to others, but not many.  I only needed the pump to run for pushing antifreeze around the lines.  I now know how to do that, by using a heat gun on the thermostat!

Interestingly I do have the plastic capacitor, but have had no issues with it, even although the AC has been used a lot since the boat was new. The previous owner didn’t take the boat out very often, but he did like to hang out in the marina in the Italian summer with the AC running!

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

ps Danny, I don’t know that crc 66 product, but I’ll keep an eye open.  I do use CorrosionX and of course WD40 is as ubiquitous as duct tape :-)
As the old saying goes ...
If it moves when it shouldn’t -> Duct Tape
if it should move but doesn’t -> WD40

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Nick,
I’ll try that screwdriver method next year, although I found that just spinning it a few times before starting up the system also seems to work.

We also used the AC a lot in Greece. Great!

That condensation problem is very much present for us here in Scotland too.  I’m going to run a dehumidifier over winter on the hard stand.

Lifting out on Monday.

Cheers
Dean


Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Mark Erdos
 

Dean,

 

I don’t think you should turn the screwdriver with power to the pump. All you are trying to do with the screwdriver is turn the pump a couple of rotations to free the bronze impeller.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of SY STELLA
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 11:45 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

 

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Nick and Dean, i will repeat again my mantra. Regularly spray crc 66 marine in and around the motor and you are unlikely to have the problem again. Likewise for all pumps, alternators, starter motors and associated electrical connections. If crc 66 marine is not available WD 40 is an alternative. There are those who advocate corrosion x for this  and i am sure it is a fine product and I use it myself in some applications but it leaves a greasy film which after multiole applications becomes quite unsightly and since the crc has worked for me for many years I am staying with it

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 01 September 2019 at 03:44 SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Freezer problem ‘frigoboat’

Paul Brown
 

Agreed, damn electronics

Thanks Bill, your a legend 


On 31 Aug 2019, at 8:16 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Yep, L1 is the sensor, damn these new world sensors😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 12:11 PM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I think your right with the Danfoss compressor controller and the alarm code could be L1 or something similar, I only saw the code for a moment then it switched off and would not switch on again. I’ve checked the wiring as far as I can see with no issues sighted. I’ve swapped the IR33 thermostat from the fridge and although it illuminates it does not switch the freezer on.

I will check something’s tomorrow from your information, but I have a good local mechanic that will visit Monday and figures it’s a sensor issue if it’s the L1 code which he’s familiar with.

Thank you as always for your attention and helpful information, I’ll let you know how I go

Regards Paul 


On 31 Aug 2019, at 6:46 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Paul,

Frigoboat refrigeration with Danfoss Compressor controllers have an error code of 1 Flash from a LED across the "D" terminal and a "+" terminal on the  Danfoss Compressor controller. This is a low voltage alarm, and is a highly reliable indication of a battery bank, wiring or connection issue. This alarm does not lie. If you have this alarm, you probably have a wiring or connection issue somewhere. I am sure that your Frigoboat has a Danfoss controller.

The part you are describing is, I believe, the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat. I checked the manual on this thermostat and see no error code 1. I believe that the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat could be used with any Frigoboat system. Maybe it is possible that this Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat is relaying the Danfoss error code. I don't know, but if it is capable and is doing so, the solution is in the first paragraph. I have attached the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat manual for your convenience. Please let me know what you find.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 1:03 AM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
good day to all,

my Freezer is a ‘frigoboat’ with its controller being ‘Carel IR33’ and yesterday just stopped working with no warning except the controller displayed ‘1’

If anyone can assist with some assistance of course I would very much appreciate your help 

kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55#17


<carel-ir33-user-manual.pdf>

Re: Freezer problem ‘frigoboat’

 

Yep, L1 is the sensor, damn these new world sensors😀

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 12:11 PM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill, I think your right with the Danfoss compressor controller and the alarm code could be L1 or something similar, I only saw the code for a moment then it switched off and would not switch on again. I’ve checked the wiring as far as I can see with no issues sighted. I’ve swapped the IR33 thermostat from the fridge and although it illuminates it does not switch the freezer on.

I will check something’s tomorrow from your information, but I have a good local mechanic that will visit Monday and figures it’s a sensor issue if it’s the L1 code which he’s familiar with.

Thank you as always for your attention and helpful information, I’ll let you know how I go

Regards Paul 


On 31 Aug 2019, at 6:46 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Paul,

Frigoboat refrigeration with Danfoss Compressor controllers have an error code of 1 Flash from a LED across the "D" terminal and a "+" terminal on the  Danfoss Compressor controller. This is a low voltage alarm, and is a highly reliable indication of a battery bank, wiring or connection issue. This alarm does not lie. If you have this alarm, you probably have a wiring or connection issue somewhere. I am sure that your Frigoboat has a Danfoss controller.

The part you are describing is, I believe, the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat. I checked the manual on this thermostat and see no error code 1. I believe that the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat could be used with any Frigoboat system. Maybe it is possible that this Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat is relaying the Danfoss error code. I don't know, but if it is capable and is doing so, the solution is in the first paragraph. I have attached the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat manual for your convenience. Please let me know what you find.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 1:03 AM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
good day to all,

my Freezer is a ‘frigoboat’ with its controller being ‘Carel IR33’ and yesterday just stopped working with no warning except the controller displayed ‘1’

If anyone can assist with some assistance of course I would very much appreciate your help 

kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55#17


<carel-ir33-user-manual.pdf>

Re: Freezer problem ‘frigoboat’

Paul Brown
 

Thanks Bill, I think your right with the Danfoss compressor controller and the alarm code could be L1 or something similar, I only saw the code for a moment then it switched off and would not switch on again. I’ve checked the wiring as far as I can see with no issues sighted. I’ve swapped the IR33 thermostat from the fridge and although it illuminates it does not switch the freezer on.

I will check something’s tomorrow from your information, but I have a good local mechanic that will visit Monday and figures it’s a sensor issue if it’s the L1 code which he’s familiar with.

Thank you as always for your attention and helpful information, I’ll let you know how I go

Regards Paul 


On 31 Aug 2019, at 6:46 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Paul,

Frigoboat refrigeration with Danfoss Compressor controllers have an error code of 1 Flash from a LED across the "D" terminal and a "+" terminal on the  Danfoss Compressor controller. This is a low voltage alarm, and is a highly reliable indication of a battery bank, wiring or connection issue. This alarm does not lie. If you have this alarm, you probably have a wiring or connection issue somewhere. I am sure that your Frigoboat has a Danfoss controller.

The part you are describing is, I believe, the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat. I checked the manual on this thermostat and see no error code 1. I believe that the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat could be used with any Frigoboat system. Maybe it is possible that this Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat is relaying the Danfoss error code. I don't know, but if it is capable and is doing so, the solution is in the first paragraph. I have attached the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat manual for your convenience. Please let me know what you find.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 1:03 AM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
good day to all,

my Freezer is a ‘frigoboat’ with its controller being ‘Carel IR33’ and yesterday just stopped working with no warning except the controller displayed ‘1’

If anyone can assist with some assistance of course I would very much appreciate your help 

kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55#17


<carel-ir33-user-manual.pdf>

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

 

It is likely the starting capacitor inside the wiring junction box on the top of the Calpeda BCM20/E pump. Note the photo shows an aluminum case capacitor. Absolutely use an aluminum case 10uf capacitor. Calpeda distributes this pump with either a plastic or aluminum capacitor. The plastic will not stand the heat.
image.png

If it is not the capacitor, it may be the fuse. Amel used an automotive glass-type fuse in SM and possibly all 54s. It is located inside the CLIMMA Control box in the engine room.
image.png

I hope this helps.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 11:36 AM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sounds like a starting capacitor is bad.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 31, 2019, at 12:08 PM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Dean,

I turn on the AC and nip into the engine room with a screwdriver. It is trying to turn but can not quite make it without my help. No kickback really. I had that pump apart and reckoned it was on it’s last legs, but that was two years ago and it is still going. I should buy a spare, but it is not really essential for the running of the boat and we are not in marinas much. Having said that in Greece this summer, when connected to shore power a bit of AC for a siesta is quite nice!

In Scotland you will be more in need of heating! How was the condensation this summer? On my last boat we spent a summer on the west coast and loved it, but the portholes and hatches were covered each morning with heavy condensation.

Nick

Amelia
AML 54-019
On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:44, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Freezer problem ‘frigoboat’

 

Paul,

Frigoboat refrigeration with Danfoss Compressor controllers have an error code of 1 Flash from a LED across the "D" terminal and a "+" terminal on the  Danfoss Compressor controller. This is a low voltage alarm, and is a highly reliable indication of a battery bank, wiring or connection issue. This alarm does not lie. If you have this alarm, you probably have a wiring or connection issue somewhere. I am sure that your Frigoboat has a Danfoss controller.

The part you are describing is, I believe, the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat. I checked the manual on this thermostat and see no error code 1. I believe that the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat could be used with any Frigoboat system. Maybe it is possible that this Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat is relaying the Danfoss error code. I don't know, but if it is capable and is doing so, the solution is in the first paragraph. I have attached the Carel IR33 Electronic Thermostat manual for your convenience. Please let me know what you find.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 1:03 AM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
good day to all,

my Freezer is a ‘frigoboat’ with its controller being ‘Carel IR33’ and yesterday just stopped working with no warning except the controller displayed ‘1’

If anyone can assist with some assistance of course I would very much appreciate your help 

kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55#17


Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Matt Salatino
 

Sounds like a starting capacitor is bad.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 31, 2019, at 12:08 PM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Dean,

I turn on the AC and nip into the engine room with a screwdriver. It is trying to turn but can not quite make it without my help. No kickback really. I had that pump apart and reckoned it was on it’s last legs, but that was two years ago and it is still going. I should buy a spare, but it is not really essential for the running of the boat and we are not in marinas much. Having said that in Greece this summer, when connected to shore power a bit of AC for a siesta is quite nice!

In Scotland you will be more in need of heating! How was the condensation this summer? On my last boat we spent a summer on the west coast and loved it, but the portholes and hatches were covered each morning with heavy condensation.

Nick

Amelia
AML 54-019
On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:44, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Dean,

I turn on the AC and nip into the engine room with a screwdriver. It is trying to turn but can not quite make it without my help. No kickback really. I had that pump apart and reckoned it was on it’s last legs, but that was two years ago and it is still going. I should buy a spare, but it is not really essential for the running of the boat and we are not in marinas much. Having said that in Greece this summer, when connected to shore power a bit of AC for a siesta is quite nice!

In Scotland you will be more in need of heating! How was the condensation this summer? On my last boat we spent a summer on the west coast and loved it, but the portholes and hatches were covered each morning with heavy condensation.

Nick

Amelia
AML 54-019

On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:44, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Nick,
Ah the old screwdriver trick. That’s usually my first port of call too!  Do you try to turn it when it’s powered up? Is there a kickback when it spins up?  I’ve always powered it down first, then give it a few spins with screwdriver and then it seems to go. 
The AC pump on my last boat was exactly the same each spring.
Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Mast length

Robert Squire
 

Hi I'm new to this group, thanks to the moderators for letting me join.any one have a manual and or a spec sheet for a1977,53ft Meltem.tjanks

Inner stay

Robert Squire
 

Id like to add an inner stay to my 1977 meltem53.ive seen some close to each other and others about foot or two apart .what is the significance.

Emptying the ( waste tank) on a 1977 meltem53

Robert Squire
 

Where do you emptying the black water tanks,the toilets are backed up

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

Hi All,
The thing that was niggling me was the fact that there was no voltage across the Active-Neutral terminals of the pump when I checked. 

Monitoring the terminal voltage I have checked whether the pump is activated immediately the system is powered on, and I found that it is not! No voltage at the terminals.
This could point to a relay problem.

However, before looking at the relays, I thought I would do another test as follows:

Ambient temp here is 15degC (yes it is summer!).

I turned on the AC in the saloon, and set the desired temp to 17.9. (The lowest possible setting).

The AC produces some slightly warm air, but the seawater pump does not start.

I then used a hot air gun to slowly raise the temp of the AC panel in the galley.

When the temp reading on the panel reached 18.9 degC THEN the seawater pump started.

Conclusion: The seawater pump does not start until the ambient temp (as detected at the panel) rises above the set-point (desired temp set by user).
(I guess this corresponds to the compressor starting up).

Most folks might think that the pump operation is always immediate. In hot weather, it does, but in fact it depends on ambient temperature vs set-point.

Thanks for the pointers Olivier, Ruedi and Jose.

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

Dean Gillies
 

That’s an impressive blow out Jose!
At least you know what is wrong very easily 😜

Re: When to use Running Back Stays and Onan Control Board PCB

Joerg Esdorn
 

Scott, sorry for the delay but here are pics of the clean up tackle for the runners and the extension for the runners, as supplied by Amel.  Works excellent.  

Re: Air conditioner seawater pump won’t start

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Dean, 
On my 54?I have to get the pump going with flat screwdriver on the shaft at the aft end there is a hole in the fan covering. Mine makes a hum but does not turn without a little help.
Nick
Amelia 
AML 54-019


On 30 Aug 2019, at 19:43, Beaute Olivier via Groups.Io <atlanticyachtsurvey@...> wrote:

Hello Dean,

first, did you try to turn the pump shaft manually (thanks to a flat screw driver at the backside of the pump, where the fan is located)?
After several months of non use, the bronze impeller may be a bit frozen.

I confirm the pump starts as soon as you turn on the A/C on cooling mode. Then, depending on the boat's inside temperature, the compressor will start or not (can you hear the click of the thermostat when you turn it to low temp?).

The A/C pump is indeed started from three relays (one for each A/C unit). These relays are located in a grey box located at the aft portside of the engine room, close to the Shore/Generator automatic switch box.

Did you try to turn on all the A/Cs?

Good luck.

Olivier

On Friday, August 30, 2019, 07:44:13 PM GMT+2, SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:


Hi gang,
I just fired up my AC (not used at all this year!), because I want to make sure I can put antifreeze through the system.   My Calpeda seawater pump is not running, and I’m wondering why? ...

1. I’m measuring 240V at both ACTIVE AND NEUTRAL TERMINALS with reference to ground, but zero bolts between the ACTIVE and NEUTRAL. 
Seems like one terminal is being driven and the other is showing up through the winding, but is not being connected at the pump controller. Relay not activated? 

2. Is it just too cold for it to start. The ambient temp is lower than the lowest temp I can set the AC to, so I maybe the system won’t even try to start the pump?

if that’s the case, does anyone know how to fill the system into starting the pump so I can put Antifreeze into the lines?

Alternatively maybe the pump should always run, and there is a different problem ??  Anytime I’ve fired up my aircon in the past, the ambient temp has been high and I’m 90% sure the seawater pump starts immediately.

Would appreciate any guidance!

many thanks
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Freezer problem ‘frigoboat’

Paul Brown
 

good day to all,

my Freezer is a ‘frigoboat’ with its controller being ‘Carel IR33’ and yesterday just stopped working with no warning except the controller displayed ‘1’

If anyone can assist with some assistance of course I would very much appreciate your help 

kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55#17