Date   

Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

We are now anchored out in Weems Creek and will be here until right after the sailboat show. Spa and Back creek are full due the motorboat show. Some people are anchored out off Horn Point but that does not look comfortable.

I surmise it'll open up after the motorboat show finishes and we were considering trying to hunt for a mooring ball, but then again, we're pretty happy with our spot and the anchor held fine last night in 25 knot winds.

Anyone else arriving "early"?
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Companionway screen

Mark Pitt
 

Here are photos of the full height companionway screen made from "spring steel."  One could, of course, get two smaller rigid screens but I think that this has a cleaner look and may be less expensive than two smaller custom screens.

Mark Pitt
"Sabbatical III" SM419, Rhode Island, USA


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

Thanks for that. I will hopefully have a good solution next week

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 9:10 AM Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
Hi Bill

i only had written contact with Sonja Kessler at amel dot med at amel dot com.  She has managed all my purchases over the past 5 years.  She did write that she confirmed with La Rochelle before replying to me.  I can forward you the email chain privately if you wish.  I did not contact Ultraflex or any other company, besides this forum.

I agree, it is very un-Amel to suggest switching to a hydraulic system:   “ I’m sorry, Amel have unfortunately  none of these parts any more,  I have asked confirmation from my colleagues in La Rochelle.” and  “I think we have found a craftsman who is able to change the system for a hydraulic one. This the only idea we have, since there are no parts available any more.”.

Regards
Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain


Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Mike Ondra
 

Bill,

Sorry to miss you. Looking forward to the next opportunity to get together.

Mike

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 9:16 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

 

Mike,

 

I wish I could be there, but, at this time, I have a conflict.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

 

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, 8:08 AM Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

For the maintenance/repairs “forum” (sounds way too formal) I have RSVP’s so far from Jay Pokorski and Charles (SV Saturn). We’ll meet on Aletes (anchored at the mouth of Back  Creek…unless weather pushes an alternative anchorage…will advise) at 2:00 Thursday afternoon. Anyone land based or dinghy deprived that wants to attend let us know and we can arrange a pickup. Anyone is welcome to join us for beverages and dinner afterwards at Davis’ Pub.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:51 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

 

Aletes would like to host an Amel maintenance/repair forum on board either Thurs or Friday afternoon of Boat Show week. The idea would be to share everyone’s experiences with some of the unique equipment on our vessels.

 

Possible topics, and please add to the list, might include:

Bow Thrusters, furling gearboxes (motorized and manual), battery strategies, deck finish (restoration and striping), anti-fouling, hard-won lessons and other tricks.

 

We’ll do it if there is interest, so let me know which day and additional topics. Bring your issues and get the insights of others.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi Bill

i only had written contact with Sonja Kessler at amel dot med at amel dot com.  She has managed all my purchases over the past 5 years.  She did write that she confirmed with La Rochelle before replying to me.  I can forward you the email chain privately if you wish.  I did not contact Ultraflex or any other company, besides this forum.

I agree, it is very un-Amel to suggest switching to a hydraulic system:   “ I’m sorry, Amel have unfortunately  none of these parts any more,  I have asked confirmation from my colleagues in La Rochelle.” and  “I think we have found a craftsman who is able to change the system for a hydraulic one. This the only idea we have, since there are no parts available any more.”.

Regards
Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain


Re: Annapolis Boat Show

 

Mike,

I wish I could be there, but, at this time, I have a conflict.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, 8:08 AM Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

For the maintenance/repairs “forum” (sounds way too formal) I have RSVP’s so far from Jay Pokorski and Charles (SV Saturn). We’ll meet on Aletes (anchored at the mouth of Back  Creek…unless weather pushes an alternative anchorage…will advise) at 2:00 Thursday afternoon. Anyone land based or dinghy deprived that wants to attend let us know and we can arrange a pickup. Anyone is welcome to join us for beverages and dinner afterwards at Davis’ Pub.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:51 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

 

Aletes would like to host an Amel maintenance/repair forum on board either Thurs or Friday afternoon of Boat Show week. The idea would be to share everyone’s experiences with some of the unique equipment on our vessels.

 

Possible topics, and please add to the list, might include:

Bow Thrusters, furling gearboxes (motorized and manual), battery strategies, deck finish (restoration and striping), anti-fouling, hard-won lessons and other tricks.

 

We’ll do it if there is interest, so let me know which day and additional topics. Bring your issues and get the insights of others.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

Eamonn

Because you reported that Amel will no longer supply these parts, I contacted the US distributor, who said they would get in touch with the Italy headquarters.

I also wrote Amel to verify that they will not supply these parts. If Amel replies that they will supply parts, I will drop my efforts with the manufacturer because I firmly believe that we should support Amel. Frankly, had I known that you had requested parts from any source other than La Rochelle, I would have never contacted the distributor.

Now, I really wonder who you spoke to because the comment that when we have time, we will work on a hydraulic solution," seems very un-Amel to me. Maybe you spoke to the wrong person. In either case, hopefully I will have a response from SAV manager shortly. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, 6:56 AM Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
Thanks guys for your welcome input!

I have the Ultraflex M61 FT25 C42M cables.

Although the steering quadrant had no loose nuts and the 2 cables connected to it were well greased, I did notice a problem that I never noticed before and it probably was not there a year ago (maybe this is what Danny referred to).  Both cables leave their plastic sheath and are screwed into shafts with large adaptor nuts; these shafts in turn are screwed through what I would call a ball and socket joint to go through the last bulkhead on the port side just about 30cm before the steering quadrant itself, where they are connected to the quadrant.  In my case, the aft cable shaft had unscrewed itself about 2cm through the ball and socket joint towards the quadrant; I could see the grease mark where it previously was.  I was easily able to turn it back and it made a huge difference, both steering to port and starboard.  If anything, steering to starboard is slightly harder now.  I noticed there is about 1cm of play in the steering wheel.

Then I disconnected the autopilot drive unit and removed the chain from the wheel sprocket.  That eliminated some noise and I guess minimal friction.  It made no difference to the steering feel, but I could concentrate on the remaining noise better.

I noticed that every time there is a change of direction when turning the wheel, there is a quiet clunk (around the 1cm of play on the wheel).  This is regardless if the wheel is already turned to port or starboard or centered.  It might be normal, I don’t know.  I also noticed that the one of the cables moves in or out of the tube containing the rack a couple of mm when the wheel changes direction.  All this while tied up in a marina with no currents.

All in all, I don’t think my situation is as bad as I feared, the wheel is much lighter now, but I would still like to have the new racks and cables.  Nevertheless, the point of this thread to is to establish how we can get these critical spares going forward, knowing exactly what to order from Ultraflex seems to be the way to go (unless Amel takes up the reins again).  I appreciate Bill contacting Amel on our behalf ... I was dealing with Mediterranean sales, I guess Bill has a better network inside Amel.

Also it would be great if Eric or someone could confirm what Jean-Pierre wrote for the Santorin also applies for the Super Maramu, that the rack is 33014R (with T58 steering system trav. 230 ... not sure what that is).

I will contact Steve offline for help dismantling the rack and pinion system, to inspect it further.

Thanks.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Mike Ondra
 

For the maintenance/repairs “forum” (sounds way too formal) I have RSVP’s so far from Jay Pokorski and Charles (SV Saturn). We’ll meet on Aletes (anchored at the mouth of Back  Creek…unless weather pushes an alternative anchorage…will advise) at 2:00 Thursday afternoon. Anyone land based or dinghy deprived that wants to attend let us know and we can arrange a pickup. Anyone is welcome to join us for beverages and dinner afterwards at Davis’ Pub.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:51 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Annapolis Boat Show

 

Aletes would like to host an Amel maintenance/repair forum on board either Thurs or Friday afternoon of Boat Show week. The idea would be to share everyone’s experiences with some of the unique equipment on our vessels.

 

Possible topics, and please add to the list, might include:

Bow Thrusters, furling gearboxes (motorized and manual), battery strategies, deck finish (restoration and striping), anti-fouling, hard-won lessons and other tricks.

 

We’ll do it if there is interest, so let me know which day and additional topics. Bring your issues and get the insights of others.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Rock Hall, Chesapeake Bay


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Jean-Pierre Massicotte
 

Hello in regard of the Ultraflex system:

The model is T58 System trav. 230

Part number: 33014R

You need 2 parts (rack).one for each cable.

The rack is in aluminium and need periodic maintenance (grease).

Hope this helps.

Regards

Jp ,. Vanille, SN #51.

On Sat., Oct. 5, 2019, 08:56 Eamonn Washington, <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
Thanks guys for your welcome input!

I have the Ultraflex M61 FT25 C42M cables.

Although the steering quadrant had no loose nuts and the 2 cables connected to it were well greased, I did notice a problem that I never noticed before and it probably was not there a year ago (maybe this is what Danny referred to).  Both cables leave their plastic sheath and are screwed into shafts with large adaptor nuts; these shafts in turn are screwed through what I would call a ball and socket joint to go through the last bulkhead on the port side just about 30cm before the steering quadrant itself, where they are connected to the quadrant.  In my case, the aft cable shaft had unscrewed itself about 2cm through the ball and socket joint towards the quadrant; I could see the grease mark where it previously was.  I was easily able to turn it back and it made a huge difference, both steering to port and starboard.  If anything, steering to starboard is slightly harder now.  I noticed there is about 1cm of play in the steering wheel.

Then I disconnected the autopilot drive unit and removed the chain from the wheel sprocket.  That eliminated some noise and I guess minimal friction.  It made no difference to the steering feel, but I could concentrate on the remaining noise better.

I noticed that every time there is a change of direction when turning the wheel, there is a quiet clunk (around the 1cm of play on the wheel).  This is regardless if the wheel is already turned to port or starboard or centered.  It might be normal, I don’t know.  I also noticed that the one of the cables moves in or out of the tube containing the rack a couple of mm when the wheel changes direction.  All this while tied up in a marina with no currents.

All in all, I don’t think my situation is as bad as I feared, the wheel is much lighter now, but I would still like to have the new racks and cables.  Nevertheless, the point of this thread to is to establish how we can get these critical spares going forward, knowing exactly what to order from Ultraflex seems to be the way to go (unless Amel takes up the reins again).  I appreciate Bill contacting Amel on our behalf ... I was dealing with Mediterranean sales, I guess Bill has a better network inside Amel.

Also it would be great if Eric or someone could confirm what Jean-Pierre wrote for the Santorin also applies for the Super Maramu, that the rack is 33014R (with T58 steering system trav. 230 ... not sure what that is).

I will contact Steve offline for help dismantling the rack and pinion system, to inspect it further.

Thanks.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

We have many Amel owners going to Annapolis Boat Show.
For those who going to Amel exposition please talk to Amel people about spare parts availability. Amel must have ALL spare parts for our boats  in stock.
That is very important.

Vladimir
SM 345
Life is Good


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Robert Linley
 

Steve, Eamonn,

I had a similar experience on my older SM #6.
Crossing the Atlantic in 2010, after stopping in Azores we were right on the middle of the trip to Spain when our steering broke, same thing, one rack just exploded. We had to use the emergency tiller for about 300 miles, not easy, you have to rig lines to blocks on either side, then you can sit in the cockpit and steer.
Back then Amel still sold the cables and delivered ours after about 5 days. 
Never figured out the cause, my guess is just metal fatigue as my boat was 1989, this may be a problem as the fleet gets older. 
Steve, I also am considering adding a linear drive pilot before our next long passage, please let me know what you choose and how it works out.
Good luck
Bob
s/v Minaxi 
Grenada



On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:03 PM, Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...> wrote:

Hi Eamonn,

What you are experiencing sounds very similar to the beginnings of the failure we experienced on Aloha in 2018. We were getting some noise initially from the racks, and it was more difficult to steer in one direction. Eventually, the noise and steering got worse, and then the steering jammed completely as the racks shed enough teeth to jam everything. 

I’m amazed that Amel would stop supporting parts for the steering system on the SM, as more and more boats are likely to have this problem as they age. We were able to obtain new racks, pinion, and steering cables from Amel a little more than a year ago. The conversion to hydraulic steering does not make a lot of sense to me. I’d check back with Amel again, and see if you get the same story. With that said, both the racks and steering cables are provided to Amel by Ultraflex of Italy. The steering cables are marked Ultraflex M61 FT25 498. The cables which came out of our boat were M41 FT23. My theory is that Amel switched from a 23’ cable length to a 25’ cable length somewhere in the production run after our boat was built. While the racks are also from Ultraflex, they are not labeled, and I don’t have a part number. I’ll keep looking for the original documentation they came with, and see and I can get a number. I would think Amel could at least provide the part number for you. We replaced the pinion/steering shaft as well, and I’m assuming this part was machined by Amel, but that is just a guess. While it would be best to replace the pinion with the racks, ours showed very little wear, and could have been reused. 

We concluded that the rack failure was ultimately caused by excessive friction in one steering cable. When we had the cables on the dock, one cable moved easily by hand, and the other was almost impossible to move. We cut the bad cable apart, and it appeared the internal lubrication in the cable had gotten hard over time, and eventually created a lot of internal friction. Why one cable, but not the other is anyone’s guess. 

If you need to do some sailing prior to getting this repaired, I suggest you rig your emergency tiller, and make sure it’s all working as advertised. The emergency tiller works very well on this boat, but I’d prefer never to use it again. We are also going to add a linear drive prior to leaving Hawaii next year, as having one would of allowed us to continue to steer with the autopilot. I have 2 different methods of adding the linear drive to the older SM quadrant, and have not decided which one I’ll use yet. 

Good luck on the steering problems, and I can provide you with some more info on taking it apart if you contact me at flyboyscd at gmail dot com. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:05 AM, Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Eamonn Washington
 

Thanks guys for your welcome input!

I have the Ultraflex M61 FT25 C42M cables.

Although the steering quadrant had no loose nuts and the 2 cables connected to it were well greased, I did notice a problem that I never noticed before and it probably was not there a year ago (maybe this is what Danny referred to).  Both cables leave their plastic sheath and are screwed into shafts with large adaptor nuts; these shafts in turn are screwed through what I would call a ball and socket joint to go through the last bulkhead on the port side just about 30cm before the steering quadrant itself, where they are connected to the quadrant.  In my case, the aft cable shaft had unscrewed itself about 2cm through the ball and socket joint towards the quadrant; I could see the grease mark where it previously was.  I was easily able to turn it back and it made a huge difference, both steering to port and starboard.  If anything, steering to starboard is slightly harder now.  I noticed there is about 1cm of play in the steering wheel.

Then I disconnected the autopilot drive unit and removed the chain from the wheel sprocket.  That eliminated some noise and I guess minimal friction.  It made no difference to the steering feel, but I could concentrate on the remaining noise better.

I noticed that every time there is a change of direction when turning the wheel, there is a quiet clunk (around the 1cm of play on the wheel).  This is regardless if the wheel is already turned to port or starboard or centered.  It might be normal, I don’t know.  I also noticed that the one of the cables moves in or out of the tube containing the rack a couple of mm when the wheel changes direction.  All this while tied up in a marina with no currents.

All in all, I don’t think my situation is as bad as I feared, the wheel is much lighter now, but I would still like to have the new racks and cables.  Nevertheless, the point of this thread to is to establish how we can get these critical spares going forward, knowing exactly what to order from Ultraflex seems to be the way to go (unless Amel takes up the reins again).  I appreciate Bill contacting Amel on our behalf ... I was dealing with Mediterranean sales, I guess Bill has a better network inside Amel.

Also it would be great if Eric or someone could confirm what Jean-Pierre wrote for the Santorin also applies for the Super Maramu, that the rack is 33014R (with T58 steering system trav. 230 ... not sure what that is).

I will contact Steve offline for help dismantling the rack and pinion system, to inspect it further.

Thanks.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

eric freedman
 

Hi,

It is not difficult to take the rack and pinion apart.

You have the same problem that I had  the rack makes a thunk noise when it hits the damaged rack area  Fortunately I had bought a spare set when I had Kimberlite made.

They are standard racks. I will look at my old set and see if there is a part number on them’

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eamonn Washington
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2019 10:06 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Jean-Pierre Massicotte
 

Hello juste find the part number for the Ultraflex rack: 33014R

T58 Steering system trav. 230.

Good luck

Jp
S/V Vanille

On Fri., Oct. 4, 2019, 11:05 Eamonn Washington, <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Jean-Pierre Massicotte
 

Hello we had same problem in New Zealand on our Santorin #52 1992 with the same system.rack and pignon is the same just cable length is longer for SM. Your cables are probably ok, but the racks at least one of them must be damage!

Dismantling the system was not hard, take pics along the way helps. Worst case scenario have a new rack machine in a shop base on the remaining good one.

This is troubling that they don't want to help, over 300 boats are equip with this system and those parts are subject to wear and tear 
Over the years specially with a rotary drive autopilot.

We pressure Amel at the time to make a special order! Will look further to try to give you manufacturer and ref. Part number.

Sorry for my very bad English, write to my email address and will respond directly.

Regards

JP Massicotte
S/V Vanille, Jacare Brésil



On Fri., Oct. 4, 2019, 11:05 Eamonn Washington, <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:
Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: Volvo TMD22 Timing Belt

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Paul,
I've done mine three times over the years - actually 4 times because I was off one cog and had a "do-over". It really is not difficult - all engines are just a bunch of nuts and bolts. I found it MUCH easier to lift the engine into the cockpit and then hug it properly, but I've got a Santorin and only about 8 inches of clearance on the belt end of the engine and I don't function very well upside down -  it may be ok to do in-situ on your SM if there's more space to work.

No special tools required. I use a cheap "pop" type tension meter and you can supplement that with a reasonable "eyeball" of the tension.  I used drill bits to lock the flywheel and camshaft although $pecial steel pins are available. Shop manual says to also lock the flywheel at the starter motor, but that's redundant with the pin in the flywheel and is just for babies - duh, disconnect the battery so nobody tries to start it.

They do sell kits with new idler and tension pulleys, but just a new belt should be sufficient, imho, and my shop manual doesn't suggest replacing the pulleys. Most important part, I found, is to carefully count the cogs between the cam shaft and fuel pump pulleys, mark them with nail polish on the pulleys and the belt. If you are one cog off it will run, but with a severe case of dyspepsia. 

It's a really fun project - you'll get some bragging rights, too!
Cheers


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Emmon,

I think that difference in loading is common when under motor, to do with prop wash over the rudder is my reasoning. As to replacement of cables and rack and pinion. I had play in the steering and assumed it was rack and pinion wear. Not so. Just needed cable adjustment. Easily done near the rudder head. Worth checking first.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


On 05 October 2019 at 03:05 Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

 

I contacted Amel regarding supplying these parts. If they are not going to do it, we need to make arrangements because these will need service when approaching 20-25 years old.

I also contacted to US dealer for UltraFlex:

UFLEX USA

6442 Parkland Drive

Sarasota, Florida 34243 - USA

P 941 351 2628   F 941 360 9171

www.uflexusa.com

sales@...


I hope to have an answer soon from both Amel and the US distributor. Steve, if you can find the gear numbers that will help.



--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:03 PM Stephen Davis <flyboyscd@...> wrote:
Hi Eamonn,

What you are experiencing sounds very similar to the beginnings of the failure we experienced on Aloha in 2018. We were getting some noise initially from the racks, and it was more difficult to steer in one direction. Eventually, the noise and steering got worse, and then the steering jammed completely as the racks shed enough teeth to jam everything. 

I’m amazed that Amel would stop supporting parts for the steering system on the SM, as more and more boats are likely to have this problem as they age. We were able to obtain new racks, pinion, and steering cables from Amel a little more than a year ago. The conversion to hydraulic steering does not make a lot of sense to me. I’d check back with Amel again, and see if you get the same story. With that said, both the racks and steering cables are provided to Amel by Ultraflex of Italy. The steering cables are marked Ultraflex M61 FT25 498. The cables which came out of our boat were M41 FT23. My theory is that Amel switched from a 23’ cable length to a 25’ cable length somewhere in the production run after our boat was built. While the racks are also from Ultraflex, they are not labeled, and I don’t have a part number. I’ll keep looking for the original documentation they came with, and see and I can get a number. I would think Amel could at least provide the part number for you. We replaced the pinion/steering shaft as well, and I’m assuming this part was machined by Amel, but that is just a guess. While it would be best to replace the pinion with the racks, ours showed very little wear, and could have been reused. 

We concluded that the rack failure was ultimately caused by excessive friction in one steering cable. When we had the cables on the dock, one cable moved easily by hand, and the other was almost impossible to move. We cut the bad cable apart, and it appeared the internal lubrication in the cable had gotten hard over time, and eventually created a lot of internal friction. Why one cable, but not the other is anyone’s guess. 

If you need to do some sailing prior to getting this repaired, I suggest you rig your emergency tiller, and make sure it’s all working as advertised. The emergency tiller works very well on this boat, but I’d prefer never to use it again. We are also going to add a linear drive prior to leaving Hawaii next year, as having one would of allowed us to continue to steer with the autopilot. I have 2 different methods of adding the linear drive to the older SM quadrant, and have not decided which one I’ll use yet. 

Good luck on the steering problems, and I can provide you with some more info on taking it apart if you contact me at flyboyscd at gmail dot com. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:05 AM, Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


Re: No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Eamonn,

What you are experiencing sounds very similar to the beginnings of the failure we experienced on Aloha in 2018. We were getting some noise initially from the racks, and it was more difficult to steer in one direction. Eventually, the noise and steering got worse, and then the steering jammed completely as the racks shed enough teeth to jam everything. 

I’m amazed that Amel would stop supporting parts for the steering system on the SM, as more and more boats are likely to have this problem as they age. We were able to obtain new racks, pinion, and steering cables from Amel a little more than a year ago. The conversion to hydraulic steering does not make a lot of sense to me. I’d check back with Amel again, and see if you get the same story. With that said, both the racks and steering cables are provided to Amel by Ultraflex of Italy. The steering cables are marked Ultraflex M61 FT25 498. The cables which came out of our boat were M41 FT23. My theory is that Amel switched from a 23’ cable length to a 25’ cable length somewhere in the production run after our boat was built. While the racks are also from Ultraflex, they are not labeled, and I don’t have a part number. I’ll keep looking for the original documentation they came with, and see and I can get a number. I would think Amel could at least provide the part number for you. We replaced the pinion/steering shaft as well, and I’m assuming this part was machined by Amel, but that is just a guess. While it would be best to replace the pinion with the racks, ours showed very little wear, and could have been reused. 

We concluded that the rack failure was ultimately caused by excessive friction in one steering cable. When we had the cables on the dock, one cable moved easily by hand, and the other was almost impossible to move. We cut the bad cable apart, and it appeared the internal lubrication in the cable had gotten hard over time, and eventually created a lot of internal friction. Why one cable, but not the other is anyone’s guess. 

If you need to do some sailing prior to getting this repaired, I suggest you rig your emergency tiller, and make sure it’s all working as advertised. The emergency tiller works very well on this boat, but I’d prefer never to use it again. We are also going to add a linear drive prior to leaving Hawaii next year, as having one would of allowed us to continue to steer with the autopilot. I have 2 different methods of adding the linear drive to the older SM quadrant, and have not decided which one I’ll use yet. 

Good luck on the steering problems, and I can provide you with some more info on taking it apart if you contact me at flyboyscd at gmail dot com. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Ko Olina, Hawaii

On Oct 4, 2019, at 4:05 AM, Eamonn Washington <eamonn.washington@...> wrote:

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.


No steering parts, rack & pinion, cables, from Amel

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi

Steering to port is harder than steering to starboard on my SM.  I cleaned the rudder, checked for loose steering cables, and they seem to be OK.  I do sometimes hear a quiet metallic clunk when the autopilot makes small steering adjustments, in addition to the normal noise from the rack and pinion system.  I read the articles in this forum, especially what happened to Aloha, and the files section for pictures.  Finally I decided I should replace the steering cables and the rack and pinion system to be on the safe side.

Here is the problem.  Amel do not have the parts anymore.  They do not intend to make them anymore.  I asked for the specifications but instead was told they might make something to convert my system to hydraulics, when they have time.

I would prefer to replace the worn (I assume) rack and pinion system.  I never opened it up, since I read it is difficult in the forum, and I was hoping that I could replace the parts at the same time.  I am not keen in changing to hydraulics, I am not sure what that would entail.

Does anyone have the specifications for the rack and pinion system, and the steering cables?  Do you know if Amel actually made them or subcontracted the work to another company?

I have the Rotary drive unit connected with a chain to the sprocket behind the steering wheel.  I replaced the autopilot with the Raymarine evolution 400 package 3 years ago. I do not have a second autopilot.  I have a spare rotary drive unit (would this work with hydraulic steering?).

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Denia, Spain.