1. main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
   Date   
Re: Mizzen furler

Linda Melton <lindajmelton@...>
 

Agree with ‘Ocean Pearl’. 4 seasons in the Caribbean, then 18 months back in UK waters (including the usual H2O from the sky) saw many moving parts moving much more easily. Salt was an issue out there.

Ian

‘Ocean Hobo’ SN96
Re: Loose screws in portlight stainless trem

Giovanni TESTA
 

Hi to all,
this is other test : https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/which-adhesive-sealant-is-best-20877
Any experience which the best to seal windshield ? Sika 295 UV vs 3M 4200FC Marine ?
Many thanks
Giovanni Testa
sv EUTIKIA SM 428

Il 27/11/2019 14:52, Mark McGovern ha scritto:
Duane,

I second Craig's suggestion.  Plus, if it fails in less than 50 years Craig will come and personally fix it for you. ;)

3M 5200 is known as "The Devil's Glue" and should really only be used on things that you never, ever, want to take apart again.  Offhand, I can't think of a single place on my SM that I would use it in place of something that is almost as strong but way more removable like 3M 4200. 

Here's a pretty good article on marine adhesives from Practical Sailor:  https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/36_8/features/Marine-Adhesives-Caulks_5953-1.html

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

Alan Leslie
 

Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 
Re: Mizzen furler

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat,

Keep dousing it with water and working it until it is completely free. The salt will be well encrusted. Don"t forget to squirt up the input shaft too.

I have never greased it. I have wondered about installing grease nipples as I did with the furler and outhaul gearboxes but the collective wisdom was that (unlike the main) the mizzen gearbox was constructed to allow the flow of water through. I have never investigated further. Given the total success of the flush followed by drying out and then silicone I will stay with that. The main clearly is sealed with either oil or grease in it. I am seriously considering adding grease nipples to that.

The 54s with their water ingress problem to the mains gearbox could consider that. Water has trouble flowing into something packed full of grease.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 28 November 2019 at 10:54 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

Danny, I think you may be onto something, last week I only had a few minutes to deal with the furler and it appeared that the swivel moved freely. Today I discovered that it only rotated freely an inch or so in either direction and stopped ,so I assumed my problem was elsewhere. I doused it with water and with winch handle was able to get it to rotate ,although it comes to a spot and wants to stop ,but with a little more effort it moves past that spot. I will douse it again with warm water and then lubricate it . have you ever added any grease to the gearbox? 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
"Gob smacked" is a Kiwi colloquialism (saying) for very, totally, completely, utterly  amazed. (and any other adjectives you can think of) The salt levels in the Caribbean are higher, or so it seemed to my observation. The build up of salt on the rails and the rust on stainless is much greater than other places. You have just had a season there which is why i am sure it is salt causing your "never before" problem. The tropical Pacific has similar salt issues and I find the same sort of thing affecting furlers, blocks, cars and anything else that moves. Many SM owners including me have found the mizzen hard to unfurl requiring some effort on the winch handles. Now I have eliminated the salt from all those points mine unfurls with a tug on the outhaul line, no winch winding needed, on either the outhaul or the gearbox.
I was "gob smacked"
Cheers
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 28 November 2019 at 02:40 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

Danny, I wish we had not already drained our water system, the marina has as well, its starting to get cold here.I think I will take the gearbox apart and take home ,clean & grease. I may pull the masts to put the boat in a shed for repairs and to be repainted this winter . I am not really sure I want to be " gob smacked " ,sounds painful , but being married I am use to abuse, and if the mizzen furls easier that it might be worth it .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 8:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
Almost certain to be salt build up. The carribean salt is brutal. Rinse all moving parts with floods of fresh water. Over the top of the gearbox,up the input shaft, the swivel or spinner as I call it at the top of the sail. (Lower it first). all blocks, cars, turning blocks. Allow to dry and liberally apply silicone spray. You will be gob smacked at the result. To unfurl my mizzen since I did this I just pull the out haul by hand and brrrrrrt out it goes. I know its too simple and I expect some cynicism, but give it a try. 
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 27 November 2019 at 08:34 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

When we unfurled the mizzen sail to store it for the winter the sail came out but then became difficult to turn. The furler will only turn about a quarter of the way either direction. Its not the swivel where the sail's head attaches . I have never had an issue with the furler until now. I suppose it could be the furler's gear box , but my question is. Is there a bearing at the top of the mast that may be causing the binding ? I need to decide to pull or not ,both of the masts by next Monday and put the boat in a shed to repaint ,or leave the mast up and have it painted outside. I was leaning towards leaving the masts up until this problem,if its a bearing at the top of the mast it would be easier to deal with on the ground.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
 
Re: Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

rossirossix4
 

Dan and Alan-
Fascinating stuff (as I think ahead to a lithium conversion).  This video does a good job of discussing and demonstrating what you are writing about AND talks about problems with low RPM/high charging situations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

Bob, KAIMI SM429
Trying to save up money for them thar newfangled Lithiums
Re: Question

Porter McRoberts
 

I don’t have much Bilk and we’re away from the boat. 
Let me know what you get. We’ll be back in 10-12 days. 
Thanks

Porter 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.com

On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:15 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


I am updating my Amel Book and need more photos of the mainsail 54/55 outhaul motor and gearbox...possibly some disassembled photos. The one below is the only one that I have at this time.
<image.png>


--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

Question

CW Bill Rouse
 

I am updating my Amel Book and need more photos of the mainsail 54/55 outhaul motor and gearbox...possibly some disassembled photos. The one below is the only one that I have at this time.
image.png

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

Re: Santorin Furling/Outhaul Solenoid Wiring Question

Eric Meury
 

Thanks oliver.  

This has been an issue for me.  Do you know a replacement Solenoid for these.  I have a 12 Volt Santorin.
Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, That was very informative ,the files contain a wealth of info ,especially Gary's .
Thank You Both,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Pat,

Gary Silver uploaded a file with an excellent write-up on overhauling the Mizzen Furler called "SM Mizzen Furling Gearbox Overhaul".  You can find it in the files section if you search for "SM Mizzen Furling Gearbox Overhaul" or find the link at the bottom of this post:  https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/48035?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,gary+silver+mizzen,20,2,0,34250823
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, I think you may be onto something, last week I only had a few minutes to deal with the furler and it appeared that the swivel moved freely. Today I discovered that it only rotated freely an inch or so in either direction and stopped ,so I assumed my problem was elsewhere. I doused it with water and with winch handle was able to get it to rotate ,although it comes to a spot and wants to stop ,but with a little more effort it moves past that spot. I will douse it again with warm water and then lubricate it . have you ever added any grease to the gearbox? 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2019 11:55 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
"Gob smacked" is a Kiwi colloquialism (saying) for very, totally, completely, utterly  amazed. (and any other adjectives you can think of) The salt levels in the Caribbean are higher, or so it seemed to my observation. The build up of salt on the rails and the rust on stainless is much greater than other places. You have just had a season there which is why i am sure it is salt causing your "never before" problem. The tropical Pacific has similar salt issues and I find the same sort of thing affecting furlers, blocks, cars and anything else that moves. Many SM owners including me have found the mizzen hard to unfurl requiring some effort on the winch handles. Now I have eliminated the salt from all those points mine unfurls with a tug on the outhaul line, no winch winding needed, on either the outhaul or the gearbox.
I was "gob smacked"
Cheers
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 28 November 2019 at 02:40 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

Danny, I wish we had not already drained our water system, the marina has as well, its starting to get cold here.I think I will take the gearbox apart and take home ,clean & grease. I may pull the masts to put the boat in a shed for repairs and to be repainted this winter . I am not really sure I want to be " gob smacked " ,sounds painful , but being married I am use to abuse, and if the mizzen furls easier that it might be worth it .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 8:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
Almost certain to be salt build up. The carribean salt is brutal. Rinse all moving parts with floods of fresh water. Over the top of the gearbox,up the input shaft, the swivel or spinner as I call it at the top of the sail. (Lower it first). all blocks, cars, turning blocks. Allow to dry and liberally apply silicone spray. You will be gob smacked at the result. To unfurl my mizzen since I did this I just pull the out haul by hand and brrrrrrt out it goes. I know its too simple and I expect some cynicism, but give it a try. 
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 27 November 2019 at 08:34 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

When we unfurled the mizzen sail to store it for the winter the sail came out but then became difficult to turn. The furler will only turn about a quarter of the way either direction. Its not the swivel where the sail's head attaches . I have never had an issue with the furler until now. I suppose it could be the furler's gear box , but my question is. Is there a bearing at the top of the mast that may be causing the binding ? I need to decide to pull or not ,both of the masts by next Monday and put the boat in a shed to repaint ,or leave the mast up and have it painted outside. I was leaning towards leaving the masts up until this problem,if its a bearing at the top of the mast it would be easier to deal with on the ground.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
Re: Loose screws in portlight stainless trem

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks for the replies!  I have used the toothpick trick at home many times, why not here!

Duane
Re: Later model 54 & possibly 55 Furling Motor Seal Question

Alexander Hofmann
 

Hi Bill,

I have just had this problem. My in-main-mast-furler from 2010 was blocking (September in Ponta Delagada) due to a broken lip seal. The lip seal did break into pieces, did fall apart and water came in. Because of the lack of a purge (construction fault!) water did stay in the brake in the lower part of the furler cylinder and did corrode the brake up to compolete blocking. I have learned from Amel Yacht Owners Forum that this happens frequently. 
I received soon a new furler from  Amel (2,5 k€) which has a shaft seal instead of the lip seal and a purge at the bottom. Much better. 
Thomas Dargel from Boat&Sail Service in Ponta Delagada did  an excellent job in repairing the system for me: He did install 2 shaft seals instead of the lip seal, a purge near the bottom and he did re-activate the corroded brake. It needs a carefull synchronisation with the furler engine . Thomas did also find out the source of the brake and the exact part number. The manufacturer of the furler LEROY SOMER did not sell the brakes separately for selling complete systems. Bad business as usual :-). I did give this information to Maud Tuillaud from SAV AMEL. I give it to everybody who wants to have it. 
My decision is for my ship to re-install the old repaired furler - and have the new one as a spare part onboard. 
My advice to you is … do the same as Thomas did: Throw away the lip seal and find someone with a lathe to open the top platein a way  that you can install 1 or even better 2 shaft seals. Always water runs down the sail exactly on to the middle of the furler engine. The lip sail is not sufficient and a stable solution. 

If you require any further details contact me. 

Alexander
SY Oceanica I - Amel54 #156
Re: Mizzen furler

Mark McGovern
 

Pat,

Gary Silver uploaded a file with an excellent write-up on overhauling the Mizzen Furler called "SM Mizzen Furling Gearbox Overhaul".  You can find it in the files section if you search for "SM Mizzen Furling Gearbox Overhaul" or find the link at the bottom of this post:  https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/48035?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,gary+silver+mizzen,20,2,0,34250823
--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
Re: Mizzen furler

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat,

"Gob smacked" is a Kiwi colloquialism (saying) for very, totally, completely, utterly  amazed. (and any other adjectives you can think of) The salt levels in the Caribbean are higher, or so it seemed to my observation. The build up of salt on the rails and the rust on stainless is much greater than other places. You have just had a season there which is why i am sure it is salt causing your "never before" problem. The tropical Pacific has similar salt issues and I find the same sort of thing affecting furlers, blocks, cars and anything else that moves. Many SM owners including me have found the mizzen hard to unfurl requiring some effort on the winch handles. Now I have eliminated the salt from all those points mine unfurls with a tug on the outhaul line, no winch winding needed, on either the outhaul or the gearbox.

I was "gob smacked"

Cheers

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 28 November 2019 at 02:40 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

Danny, I wish we had not already drained our water system, the marina has as well, its starting to get cold here.I think I will take the gearbox apart and take home ,clean & grease. I may pull the masts to put the boat in a shed for repairs and to be repainted this winter . I am not really sure I want to be " gob smacked " ,sounds painful , but being married I am use to abuse, and if the mizzen furls easier that it might be worth it .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 8:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
Almost certain to be salt build up. The carribean salt is brutal. Rinse all moving parts with floods of fresh water. Over the top of the gearbox,up the input shaft, the swivel or spinner as I call it at the top of the sail. (Lower it first). all blocks, cars, turning blocks. Allow to dry and liberally apply silicone spray. You will be gob smacked at the result. To unfurl my mizzen since I did this I just pull the out haul by hand and brrrrrrt out it goes. I know its too simple and I expect some cynicism, but give it a try. 
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 27 November 2019 at 08:34 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

When we unfurled the mizzen sail to store it for the winter the sail came out but then became difficult to turn. The furler will only turn about a quarter of the way either direction. Its not the swivel where the sail's head attaches . I have never had an issue with the furler until now. I suppose it could be the furler's gear box , but my question is. Is there a bearing at the top of the mast that may be causing the binding ? I need to decide to pull or not ,both of the masts by next Monday and put the boat in a shed to repaint ,or leave the mast up and have it painted outside. I was leaning towards leaving the masts up until this problem,if its a bearing at the top of the mast it would be easier to deal with on the ground.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
Re: Bimini Twist Lock Fastener

rossirossix4
 

Related--does anyone know a source for the white plastic fasteners that were used on the dodgers of many SMs and SNs?  They featured a tap that slid in to lock to the pin.  One of the advantages of these is that they held the canvas flat and very close to the fixed dodger sides.  Not at the boat so I don't have a pic.
Bob KAIMI SM 429
Re: Loose screws in portlight stainless trem

amelforme
 

Hi Duane. I used wooden toothpicks, preferably the tapered variety. Dip the ends that will go in the hole with any flexible  waterproof glue. When it sets up, cut the ends that extend outside the hole flush. If you get it right, no pilot hole needed and the screws will hold tight as originally.  The waterproof glue seals the hardwood toothpicks so the repair lasts a long time. All three Amel’s I’ve owned have this repair and so far nobody is complaining…

 

You and Peg have a great Thanksgiving, Joel       

 

       JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 3:42 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Loose screws in portlight stainless trem

 

I have a few loose screws in the stainless steel portlights.  I need to add something to make the screw tight.  These are very short wood screws (only two or three threads).

Most of the articles discuss filling the hole with epoxy, then redrilling a pilot hole.  I'm loath to do that since it would likely glue the stainless to the fiberglass.

I'm thinking of using something like 3M 5200 that sets up fairly hard and then run the screw into that.

Any thoughts or experiences out there?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477

Re: Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks Alan,

That's helpful about the LN175 not being continuously rated. I had not seen that. In fact had seen that large body alternators loke the LN175 were better for handling the load.  That said, the WS500 regulator monitors both voltage and current at the battery and has a dip switch which will limit the alternator to 75% current output, it also has a temperature monitor that bolts onto one of the lugs which will also limits output based on alternator temperature.  And finally I will have a switch that I can flip to force the alternator into float mode. 

I will review the previous posts and pictures to see if there is anything that I have missed. 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM# 387






On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 12:01 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Dan
I'm pretty sure that Bill and I put up all the relevant stuff.  I did it with a Next Step reg, but basically the wiring will be similar.
The wire you need is the field connection from the alternator, that's what the reg uses to control alternator output.
One caveat on this whole scenario is that you need to realise that the LN 175A alternator is not continuously rated 
So, with a 3 stage reg, if your batteries are quite discharged, the reg could command full output from the alternator and if your batteries are able to accept 175A, that's what you'll get... For a while until the alternator burns out! 
Solution is to also run the genset and the 100A charger until the charging current gets down to about 100A them turn off the genset.
Best solution is actually to change the alternator to an Idlepro Extreme or. Delstar, both of which can put out around 200A at just above idle.

You don't need to ask how I know this! 

Good luck

Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Re: Loose screws in portlight stainless trem

Mark McGovern
 

Duane,

I second Craig's suggestion.  Plus, if it fails in less than 50 years Craig will come and personally fix it for you. ;)

3M 5200 is known as "The Devil's Glue" and should really only be used on things that you never, ever, want to take apart again.  Offhand, I can't think of a single place on my SM that I would use it in place of something that is almost as strong but way more removable like 3M 4200. 

Here's a pretty good article on marine adhesives from Practical Sailor:  https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/36_8/features/Marine-Adhesives-Caulks_5953-1.html

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA
Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, I wish we had not already drained our water system, the marina has as well, its starting to get cold here.I think I will take the gearbox apart and take home ,clean & grease. I may pull the masts to put the boat in a shed for repairs and to be repainted this winter . I am not really sure I want to be " gob smacked " ,sounds painful , but being married I am use to abuse, and if the mizzen furls easier that it might be worth it .
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2019 8:17 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat,
Almost certain to be salt build up. The carribean salt is brutal. Rinse all moving parts with floods of fresh water. Over the top of the gearbox,up the input shaft, the swivel or spinner as I call it at the top of the sail. (Lower it first). all blocks, cars, turning blocks. Allow to dry and liberally apply silicone spray. You will be gob smacked at the result. To unfurl my mizzen since I did this I just pull the out haul by hand and brrrrrrt out it goes. I know its too simple and I expect some cynicism, but give it a try. 
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 27 November 2019 at 08:34 "Patrick McAneny via Groups.Io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

When we unfurled the mizzen sail to store it for the winter the sail came out but then became difficult to turn. The furler will only turn about a quarter of the way either direction. Its not the swivel where the sail's head attaches . I have never had an issue with the furler until now. I suppose it could be the furler's gear box , but my question is. Is there a bearing at the top of the mast that may be causing the binding ? I need to decide to pull or not ,both of the masts by next Monday and put the boat in a shed to repaint ,or leave the mast up and have it painted outside. I was leaning towards leaving the masts up until this problem,if its a bearing at the top of the mast it would be easier to deal with on the ground.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Re: Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

Alan Leslie
 

Dan
I'm pretty sure that Bill and I put up all the relevant stuff.  I did it with a Next Step reg, but basically the wiring will be similar.
The wire you need is the field connection from the alternator, that's what the reg uses to control alternator output.
One caveat on this whole scenario is that you need to realise that the LN 175A alternator is not continuously rated 
So, with a 3 stage reg, if your batteries are quite discharged, the reg could command full output from the alternator and if your batteries are able to accept 175A, that's what you'll get... For a while until the alternator burns out! 
Solution is to also run the genset and the 100A charger until the charging current gets down to about 100A them turn off the genset.
Best solution is actually to change the alternator to an Idlepro Extreme or. Delstar, both of which can put out around 200A at just above idle.

You don't need to ask how I know this! 

Good luck

Alan
Elyse SM 437