Re: FW: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel 54 battery group
John Clark
I think I am going to second what Joel just said. Annie has a good quality set of AGM lead-acid batteries. They were installed in 2012 and are still working fine. The previous owners, who purchased the batteries were minimalists who did not significantly deplete the batteries during their two circumnavigations. In the last three years cruising nonstop for two years we almost never depleted the batteries below 80%....we were able to do this with 700w solar and timing the genset run. An were not totally frugal with power. Anyway AGM is a proven technology and is not terrible more expensive than a wet lead acid battery. With some care they will last. As Joel said, newer chargers and alternators do take better care of the batteries than before. It appears that Lifeline and Lithium batteries are "better" performance wise...but at least for me it is an open question as to whether or not they are economically better. I guess I will be facing that question soon as my batteries are seven years old. Regards, John SV Annie SM 37 Brunswick GA
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 11:40 AM amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:
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Re: Desperate plea for an alternator/charging problem - Amel Euros 41, 1976, MD21a engine
John Clark
Hi Andrew, no pity...you are on the boat and I am at work ;) As to the alternator questions On the TMD22 there are two alternators...one is 12V for the engine and starter battery, the other is 24v for the house battery bank...which on the SM powers the windlass and other loads. If the 24v alternator is not working that could explain the lack of power at the windlass. Sorry the pictures of the morass of wiring isn't helpful to me....but I have a mulimeter in my pocket right now so if you send me a plane ticket I could perhaps help more effectively in person. ;) Regards, John SV Annie SM 37 Brunswick GA
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 8:37 AM Andrew Eaves <andyeaves@...> wrote: Hello all,
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
John Clark
Ha, I love reading Joel's posts....and to join the choir, Annie SM 37 (1990) also sports the same "cracks" at the bow. Previous owner who purchased her in 2002 reported that the cracks were present then and did not get worse or interfere with two circumnavigations. My surveyor was not worried and looked to the underside of the bowsprit to verify there was no structural issue. The three SMs I visited before purchasing Annie also had the cracks. Regards, John
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 11:16 AM Stephane Thomaso <thomaso.steph@...> wrote:
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Re: Antal 120x18 Composite Fibre jib block
John Clark
Hi Duane, I am replacing the cars on Annie, currently awaiting shipment from EuroMarine Trading. My original cars and sheaves were a little coarse but opening them up and cleaning them eliminated a lot of the resistance. At least on Annie the sheaves are ball bearing supported and opening them up and cleaning them was all that was needed. Regards, John SV Annie SM 37 Brunswick GA PS: I a replacing them because one sheave sidewall(the metal part) failed while sailing in fair wind. The stainless steal looked to have been damaged by years of flapping back and forth when the genoa flogs. I think they were original.
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 8:26 AM Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io <carlylelk=aol.com@groups.io> wrote: I'm wondering if the Antal 120x18 jib blocks on Wanderer need some TLC. If you try to spin the sheave, there is too much friction to permit it to spin. It can be turned with thumb and forefinger with enough resistance that one must grip tightly.
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FW: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel 54 battery group
amelforme
I have an invoice from when I replaced the batteries on my Amel 54 and I am sure I replaced them with what Amel recommended at the time. The size was Group 31. There are big but sometimes small hard to notice differences in closely numbered battery group sizes. These tiny differences become very obvious when you try to install the wrong size of 13 different new batteries in a space designed to hold Group 31’s . For what it’s worth, my batteries were maintenance free lead-calcium sealed types and lasted almost exactly 4 years and were not quite dead but dying. As my 54 was my demonstration boat for the North American market and was only sailed around 8,000 miles a year . It was on a dock with shore power and the 30 amp charger on 24/7 to keep the fridge/freezers happy, I got more battery life than boats that were on the hook more often than not. Steady supply to demand fosters longer battery life. I was unfortunate to only be able to be on the anchor less than a month each year. Full time jobs do this… In having sold hundreds of brokerage Amel boats over the past 39 years, I can offer you these observations. Up until about five years ago, boats that were actively cruised at least 9 months each year and dependent on using the diesel propulsion engine or the generator for charging seemed to average about 3 years on a set of lead acid batteries. With the advent of better alternators with smart/adaptive/controllable regulation, much more efficient solar panels and control mechanisms that are also efficient, the same lead acid batteries now days seem to be lasting about four years and sometimes five and six. Steady electrical flow in/out and not depleting the batteries into the danger zone would seem to be the logical explanation. I am just now starting to resell boats with Firefly and Lithium Ion batteries and, so far, nothing but love for them from selling owners. I think this is because they are rather expensive and get better care than what we thought of as disposable lead acids, as well as being technologically superior. I have also noted a phenomenon over the four decades of selling Amel and other better quality boats that the more an emerging technology costs, the more the person who wrote the check attempts to rationalize and justify any less than stellar experiences. Of course, there are so many variables with charging systems that this epistle should be viewed as opinion based on a wide swath of experience and certainly not absolute fact.
Have fun with your Amel, Joel
JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C. THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:29 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel 54 battery group
Gary,
Thanks, yes it was the group part I was interested in. It just makes it a bit easier when researching potential replacements.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Wells
When I had a failure of two batteries and ended up replacing the bank Injse grp29 AC Delco lead acids. They served quite well.
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
Stephane Thomaso
That’s exactly what , Gilles from Karin team , Amel specialist , told me about that .
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Envoyé de mon iPhone
Le 9 nov. 2019 à 16:56, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> a écrit :
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Re: Amel 54 battery group
Strange, I wonder why they are installing gel batteries on our new 50?
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~~~⛵️~~~Matt
On Nov 9, 2019, at 9:27 AM, Alexander Hofmann <DACJ@...> wrote:
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
amelforme
MORE THAN YOU EVER WANTD TO KNOW ABOUT AMEL GEL COAT CRACKS.
The reason that the gel coat cracks at the bow and other places is purely cosmetic and is simply caused by the gel coat being too thick. Gel coat is essentially just polyester resin with pigment to add color and perhaps some ultra violet inhibitors. It has very little strength on its own and is extremely brittle if a thickness of more than about 20 mils is exceeded. For my metric based friends out there, a ‘mil’ is one thousandth of an inch. Amel thickened up the gel coat in several places to level or seal a seam/joint instead of using polyester fairing compound with the proper gel coat thickness on top of that. The gel coat is also way too thick at the aft end of the ‘rub rail’ on the Fango, Santorin, Super Maramu and Amel 54. Also, up until the production of the Amel 55, the gel coat used on all Amel boats to simulate the raised grain of weathered teak is also too thick. Go look at 51’ Mango or 48’ Maramu and unless the boat has been very well cared for or never ventured much below 45 degrees latitude, you will find hairline cracks and worse as the gel coat loses esters and dries out from sun exposure and other factors . 303 spray on sun protection and Polytrol both do a good job at delaying the onslaught of gel coat degradation. With Polytrol, go easy. Enough is good. More than enough is not better. How do I know this? Jacques Carteau, who at the time was not only the technical manager at Amel but the Chairman as well, was giving me some routine technical training when I asked him about the gel coat failures I was beginning to see more often on older boats. He gave me pretty much the explanation above. When I asked him why they didn’t fair with fairing compound and use 20 mils of gel coat as the top coat I got the look I often received when I had exceeded either my question quota for the day or his patience, That time I think it was both… To properly repair the cracks you need to sand the gel coat that has the crack until you see that the crack is gone and the surrounding gel coat is almost all gone in order to get rid of the too thick gel coat. Use a compatible polyester or better yet epoxy filing/fairing compound to level or to allow shaping of the repair area then apply the proper 20 mil thickness of new gel coat. Hint, use gel coat with wax mixed in to avoid having to use pvc or similar to form an atmospheric barrier that will allow the gel coat to cure properly.
Have fun with your Amel, Joel
JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C. THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE Office 954-462-5869 Cell 954-812-2485
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Alton via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 8:41 AM To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Cracks on bow sprit
Jarek
Fiberglass that is fractured does not break along nice straight lines per your photo. Those look like joints to me. Oliver could probably tell you for sure but I suspect that the parts forming the outer rail portions of the anchor platform were fabricated and installed as separate parts and the “cracks” you see are the mating/bonding lines. James
SV Sueno Maramu #220
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Re: Amel 54 battery group
Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Gary,
Thanks, yes it was the group part I was interested in. It just makes it a bit easier when researching potential replacements.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gary Wells
When I had a failure of two batteries and ended up replacing the bank Injse grp29 AC Delco lead acids. They served quite well. -- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
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Re: Amel 54 battery group
When I had a failure of two batteries and ended up replacing the bank Injse grp29 AC Delco lead acids. They served quite well.
I am pretty sure that the grp27/29/30/31 are (nearly) identical in size and then differences lie ni capacity and post arrangement. Most recently I installed a Trojan 30xhs set and am quite pleased. It was a snug fit but they are nice batteries. So, I said all that and you'll be looking at agm's but I wanted to try to answer the 'group number' part. Measurements are readily available from almost any manufacturer's website. A secure for matters :) . Gary W. SM209, Adagio Charleston, SC
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Re: Amel 54 battery group
Hi Paul, Sharon, CourtneyAMEL has changed its advice for the batteries in about 2015. They advice the AGM 12V/110Ah. I have them onboard since years and I am very satisfied. Will change them after more than 4 years in spring. The general adive is to change them each 3 years. I would reccomend to anyone to change the 13 batteries at the same time, the starter battery and the 6 pairs of 12V batteries in serie, producing 24V. AMEL dis-advices Sol/Gel batteries. See https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/gel-and-agm-batteriesYou can prolong the batteries lifetime with 6 battery balancers (see https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/battery-balancer) which equalizes the state of charge of the 2 batteries connected.Alexander HofmannSY Oceanica I - Amel 54#156
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Re: Antal 120x18 Composite Fibre jib block
Hi Duane,
Mine have gotten stiff in the past, after long passages. They were just caked with salt. I Hi-Def them off well, then put them in warm fresh water and rinsed again...I’ve not taken them apart because that has always made them run smoothly again. Kent S/V Kristy SM243 On Nov 9, 2019, at 8:26 AM, Duane Siegfri via Groups.Io <carlylelk@...> wrote: I'm wondering if the Antal 120x18 jib blocks on Wanderer need some TLC. If you try to spin the sheave, there is too much friction to permit it to spin. It can be turned with thumb and forefinger with enough resistance that one must grip tightly. I looked on the Antal site but did not find a maintenance manual. Can anyone comment on the maintenance for this block? Thanks, Duane Wanderer, SM#477
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
James Alton
Jarek
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Fiberglass that is fractured does not break along nice straight lines per your photo. Those look like joints to me. Oliver could probably tell you for sure but I suspect that the parts forming the outer rail portions of the anchor platform were fabricated and installed as separate parts and the “cracks” you see are the mating/bonding lines. James SV Sueno Maramu #220
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Antal 120x18 Composite Fibre jib block
Duane Siegfri
I'm wondering if the Antal 120x18 jib blocks on Wanderer need some TLC. If you try to spin the sheave, there is too much friction to permit it to spin. It can be turned with thumb and forefinger with enough resistance that one must grip tightly.
I looked on the Antal site but did not find a maintenance manual. Can anyone comment on the maintenance for this block? Thanks, Duane Wanderer, SM#477
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
We have it too . When we by the boat in 2015 oliver was the seveier he say it was no problem . I think it is from the anker chain in stromg winds and waves , and when you dont fix the chain with two ropes left and right on the clambs
Best Elja SM 222 Balu Von meinem iPhone gesendet
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
Hi Jarek,
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I second Craigs assessment, our SN has them and i am comfortable that they are cosmetic but haven t ground them out to fully explore. Dave Liesse SN006
On Nov 8, 2019, at 3:16 PM, Jarek Zemlo <zemlo.jarek@...> wrote:
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Re: Amel 54 battery group
I know you should have had AMGs I’m getting ready to replace mine. I have lead acid and am not sure what I’m going to do
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On Nov 8, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:
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Amel 54 battery group
Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
Hi,
Could someone please advise what is the original battery group for the Amel 54. My batteries are not original and I don’t think they are the correct size.
Cheers, Paul S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
-- Cheers Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
JOHN HAYES
Hi Jarek
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My Santorin looks the same but I don’t think it’s either structural or weight bearing if you follow the forestay to its lower point of anchor. That said I noticed some one recently with a made up stainless arrangement and thought I might try to do the same I’ll try and send a photo in a seperate email John Hayes Nga Waka sn 41 Wellington
On 9/11/2019, at 12:16 PM, Jarek Zemlo <zemlo.jarek@...> wrote:
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Re: Cracks on bow sprit
It could be the result of a collision, or could be a surface crack in gellcoat. What did the surveyor say? Who is the surveyor? What does the current owner say? Best, CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019, 6:16 PM Jarek Zemlo <zemlo.jarek@...> wrote: Hello to all,
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