On Oct 28, 2019, at 7:46 AM, Ian <parkianj@...> wrote:

Fully agree with Mark. 

I have a Santorin. I don’t want air con or freezers etc. It is a great blue water boat as it is. The prop shaft alternator keeps us well charged without running the engine. 

You will only get a Santorin price for your boat after 3 years. 

My advice is look for a well maintained SM that has everything On your wish list and ensure a similar resale price. S

Ian

Ocean Hobo

SN96

On 28 Oct 2019, at 14:15, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:



Orion,

 

I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes).  Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back. 

 

The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design. 

 

There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.

 

I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable. 

 

I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.

 

My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.

 

This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

 

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating? 
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?) 
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion 

On Oct 28, 2019, at 3:00 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Hi Scott. I think my approach would be to take a look at PredictWind, their departure scenarios. Then look at the forecast and conditions out 2 to 3 days and pick the departure day based on the most comfortable scenario, not the fastest scenario.
Mike

Aletes SM 240

On Oct 28, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Thanks Mike. It'd be great if we could time it to leave more or less around the same time. We'll probably stick around DC this weekend and may just do an overnighter to get to Norfolk on Sunday.

Since leaving with a NW from Norfolk is not advisable, how do you choose your weather window?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

On 29 October 2019 at 14:26 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Unfortunately mine are all frozen.

Kent Robertson

S/V Kristy

karkauai@...

USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Oct 28, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent, i have just had it confirmed they are aluminium. And they unscrew very easily given how long they have been in there

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 October 2019 at 02:09 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi Danny, timely question.  I thought they were aluminum.

Kent Robertson

S/V Kristy

karkauai@...

USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Oct 28, 2019, at 4:59 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Has anyone replaced the bolts holding the track onto the top of the main boom on the SM 2000. I would particularly like to know what the material of the bolts is so I can get the same to replace them with. Mine are an alloy of some sort. Most definitely not stainless of any kind. They are M 8x50mm countersunk head and thread into the boom, no nuts.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

 

On 29 Oct 2019, at 09:27, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi John
Two questions only.
You sailed headwinds in 55 kn , means 12 Btf. or you where at ancer in a shelterd bay
2.You tryed your Santorin by purpose in 50 kn of wind?
fair winds Hanspeter
waiting for a genious reply!
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16
Martinique
------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 28. Okt, 2019 um 18:06, JOHN HAYES schrieb:

Gidday Orion 

I’ve done pretty much what your considering

So I began looking for a cruising ketch with centre cockpit and  confined my choice to a Contest, Harley rassie (sp?) or an Amel and ended up with a Santorin and have been very happy with the choice.  All amounts that follow are in NZ dollars

I came across a 1991 Santorin sailed to NZ from the Med. it has now had 4 owners and its name has been changed by each owner

I sailed it first around our South Island and the next year the north island and have just completed a voyage Wellington Nuku’alofa Vava’u Savusavu Denarau Vanuatu Noumea Wellington without incident except 55 knot head winds at times until a couple of days from Tonga

Living in the roaring 40’s we encounter strong winds at times.....I purposely took the boat out in winds of 50 plus knots to see what might break and those trips were important first to give me confidence in the boat. I had no previous knowledge of Amel and it’s systems

So costs

Boat $155k

Slip and take antifouling back to gel coat $10000. 

An extravagance!!!  Should have set up with cover cost .....,

Installed Zeus 2 chart plotter new wind gear and depth sounder $8000

Added AIS $1250

Replaced anchor chain with 120m  10mm Italian made chain $1500

Re galvanised anchors $200

On the first trip the Bimini blew apart replaced and redesigned in superior cloth $7500

The wind generator lost its feathers and I replaced with a silent wind $5000

We had to cut down the Genoa trying to get into akaroa harbour in 60 knots with the engine overheating and the headsail furling motor dying and I did not understand the need to cross over the sheets on the manual system

New Genoa $5000 rebuild furler motor and the gears in the gear box $4500

The motor was a Perkins 50 hp. It has a spline driven water pump which if not aligned precisely with a special tool chews up the spline in the water pump shaft. Happened twice cost $1250 each time for new spline and pump

Replaced the motor with a Volvo D250 and all skin fittings before heading to the pacific $32000

Brought new tender $3300 (don’t like it too heavy) plan to buy a carbon fibre replacement circa  $8000

Replaced all mattresses and interior upholstery $8000

New main $3800. New mizzen $2000 

New rigging $17000

Rebuilt the 3 furler motors $3000

Replaced stove $1600

New 6 person life raft $3800

Added a portable freezer to the front hanging locker. Been excellent $800. There is no freezer under the seats on my boat

Overhauled bow thruster $500

Overhauled spectra water maker by agent $750

Added second raycor fuel filter $750

Added forward scanner $2600. Might have been smarter to upgrade to a Zeus 3 has cheaper scanner connection.....I found Navico charts excellent  and forward scanner marginal value

Replaced engine room fans $120

Replaced dodger windows $460

Replaced running rigging. $1500

Replaced flares added plbs life jackets. NZ required first aid kit $3500

Put on part b of the New outboard motor for tender $2000

I’ve also thought about adding an inner forestay which the SM has 

My experience is that the prop generator and the wind generator provides all the power we have needed.  We also have a couple of solar panels but don’t really need them

You might want to think about what you add to the stern. The large stern locker means we continually fight to minimise weight in the stern Because it affects bow stern trim. We carry the tender on the roof of the aft cabin which adds to the problem

Have I over capitalised?  To secure insurance for off shore  cost $5200. I had to get the boat valued. The value was $260k 

Hope the foregoing is of use to your consideration 

The Santorin has excellent seakeeping qualities l love it!!

John Hayes 

Nga Waka sn 41

Wellington  

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion

On 29/10/2019, at 1:18 AM, Orion Martin <poonz1@...> wrote:

Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating?
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?)
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion

Hi Craig,

 

 have received the seals loosely in the envelope.

1.4301 / V2A / 304 is not seawater resistant. Only 1.4571 / V4A / 316 with 2% molybdenum (is pure austenitic) is seawater resistant and non-magnetic! For example, this is why surveyors use a magnet to test the stainless steel components of a yacht.

Otherwise my education would have been wrong.

I would like to see it differently, but with an austenitic steel one finds no magnetism through the transformation of the structure from ferritic to austenitic. In cheap stainless steel parts for yachts produced in the Far East, it often happens that these are made of 304. I have no intention of questioning the delivery of Amel. But why is the spring magnetic? Shaft seals with 316 springs are also difficult to obtain, as my research has shown so far. With 304 on the oil side, I have no problems but the seawater side worries me.

 

Best, Arnold

 

Am 26.10.2019 um 19:18 schrieb Craig Briggs SN 68 Sangaris via Groups.Io <sangaris@...>:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Arnold,
I assume when you say the springs of the Amel supplied lip seals were magnetic you (or your mechanic) concluded they were not Stainless Steel and therefore you replaced them with O-rings. Actually, Stainless Steel is slightly magnetic and the very thin and lightweight Stainless Steel springs in lip seals will "stick" to a magnet - therefore the "test" your mechanic performed was not definitive.

You must rely on the manufacturers specification - there is a Code letter that specifies Stainless Steel Garter Springs. Carbon Steel is usually the default, so you must specifically order stainless steel garter spring. I am sure Amel supplied the correct lip seal and that it did, indeed, have a stainless steel spring. If I recall correctly, Amel ships the lip seals in the manufacturer's box - if so you could check the part number on the box, if you still have it, and see that it indeed is a Stainless Steel Garter Spring.

Cheers, Craig

Arnold Mente

Urbaniweg 12

7000 Eisenstadt 

Tel: +43 660 6699019

arnold.mente@...

--
SY Zephyr SM203

On 29 October 2019 at 03:03 Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Scott,

A clogged crankcase breather is a very real cause and relatively easy to check. Having oil leaking out the air filter is a sure sign you will need to do something.
One question, did you check the turbo for oil leaking. Given the quality of the base D3 block, I have a hard time to believe the piston rings will be the problem unless the engine has had a very bad first life.
Leaking oil seals in turbo compressors are not uncommon.

Cheers,
Arno
SV Luna,
A54-121

On Oct 29, 2019, at 2:33 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Hi all,

My Volvo D3-110 is exhibiting what I think is blow by. Oil migrates up the return hose and slowly collects in the air filter. In the attached photo, I am pointing to the hose where oil migrates.

I have read some articles that indicate that blow by indicates worn rings (only 2250 hours!) but also might be due to a failed/clogged crankcase breather or just because the tolerances are loose when the engine is cold, so there's inevitably some blowby. 

It's not a lot of oil, perhaps a tablespoon per 100 hours or so, but it's annoying in that it starts leaking out of the air filter housing, across the hoses and down to the engine room floor.

Should I be worried?
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

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