Date   

Re: Chain and Anchor

Alexander Ramseyer
 

I bought the best available Waelder chain 1,5 years ago. Up here at the U.S. east coast she stays nice but in the Caribbean it instantly showed surface rust. Didn't like to see that and was constantly cleaning. A friend on another boat in the Caribbean had his Waelder showing serious pitting after only 4 years. So it really depends where you are using your chain, but Waelder is definitely overselling the quality of their product in warm/salty  waters. I won't buy it again.
Alex 
NO STRESS 
Amel54#15


Antal 120 X 18 block for Genoa

Alexander Ramseyer
 

My 2005 built 54 runs with the original Antal 120 X 18 genoa sheet blocks from the same year. What are the recommondations of this group regarding aging blocks replacements? The blocks still run fine, but I just read about a terrible accident where a breaking block hit a sailor (not on an AMEL) really hard.
Thanks, Alex
NO STRESS 
Amel54#15


Re: Solar and shade

Paul Brown
 

Hi Scott,

thank you for the information, it would be great assistance if you could send some photos, I like your idea of combining the arch with the davits, it would maintain the SWL of the davit system I expect well.

I’m intending to run a set of wires for each panel from the panels to the controller in the event that perhaps  individual controllers are the answer down the track. I know a catamaran owner that has I think around ten panels and each has its own controller, he said this system works great reducing the shading effect.

Thank you again for your assistance.

Kind regards, Paul Fortuna II 55/17

On 28 Sep 2019, at 19:02, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

I have an A54, but I installed three 320W LG Neon2 panels in parallel on an arch that while it can probably stand on its own, is also attached to the top of the Simpson Davits. I called Simpson and they stated that they can't openly recommend doing what I did because it might deform the tubing on the Davits, making sliding in and out difficult, but off the record it'd probably be OK.

I would not suggest putting the weight of all the panels on the davits alone without additional connections to the stern.

If you'd like, I can take some photos of my setup. It's held in 70 knot winds, so the strength seems sufficient.

Separate controllers would help reduce the effects of shading, for sure. We just went parallel instead. FYI I went for the Victron 150v/35amp model because the literature suggested that the MPPT is good for 1000w systems and mine is rated for 960w. I can attest that my LG panels have hit the 35amp limit on sunny days, so if I'd do it again, I'd upsize the MPPT.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Parts4Engines - Vendor Experience

Gary Wells
 

I had a similarly favorable experience with them. 
Although it was just for a spare starter motor  that has  yet to be installed. 
Still, fast service and good pricing vs. oem. 

Gary W.
SM209, "Adagio"
Maryland, USA


Re: Solar and shade

Scott SV Tengah
 

I have an A54, but I installed three 320W LG Neon2 panels in parallel on an arch that while it can probably stand on its own, is also attached to the top of the Simpson Davits. I called Simpson and they stated that they can't openly recommend doing what I did because it might deform the tubing on the Davits, making sliding in and out difficult, but off the record it'd probably be OK.

I would not suggest putting the weight of all the panels on the davits alone without additional connections to the stern.

If you'd like, I can take some photos of my setup. It's held in 70 knot winds, so the strength seems sufficient.

Separate controllers would help reduce the effects of shading, for sure. We just went parallel instead. FYI I went for the Victron 150v/35amp model because the literature suggested that the MPPT is good for 1000w systems and mine is rated for 960w. I can attest that my LG panels have hit the 35amp limit on sunny days, so if I'd do it again, I'd upsize the MPPT.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Bamar MEJ1.02

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hello fellow owners’

I have bought a new motor for my staysail furling from the Bamar distributor in the UK, at about £750, it had better last! The old motor had only two cables; the red and black 24v power supply. The new motor has an extra grey cable that comprises two smaller wires. I am not sure what they are for and where to connect them within the Buxton box. Maybe some kind of thermal sensor??

Does anyone know?

Kind regards

Nick

Amelia

AML 54-019 Kefalonia


Re: Headsail furler issues

 

I believe that you probably need to inspect the brushes on the motor. Might just need cleaning, but that age SM, they likely need to be replaced. 

Most SM first owners bought spare brushes. Search your boat. Those Valeo solenoids are probably the best to use with a likely 20 year life. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Yacht Owners School - www.AmelYachtOwnersSchool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 4:00 AM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi, almost certainly carbon brushes, either stuck or worn

 Not hard to fix

 Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 28 September 2019 at 17:00 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

Our headsail furler has developed a problem. Our boat is a 1994 Super Maramu, previously named Amelie IV and renamed Flora. Located in Greenwell Point, NSW, Australia. The solenoids are both working (ie clicking). The furler rotates one direction but not the other direction. Each solenoid clicks when activated by the switch in the cockpit.  There is no noise or action in the furler motor or mechanism whne we attempt to rotate the furler in the direction it does not work. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best palce to start to investiage the problem? 
Thanks and regards Adam
1994 Super Maramu "Flora"  SM No. 128 1994 


Re: Parts4Engines - Vendor Experience

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Hello Ian

I bought for CottonBay a new turbo on www.turbolader.net

I pay 540 euros + 20 euros for shipping to France

Nice service

JLMERTZ




Le 28/09/2019 à 05:18, Ian Townsend a écrit :
The turbocharger on our Volvo TMD22 needed replacing in a hurry. After consulting with Bill Rouse and online searcing for a source in the USA, we found an OEM Perkins-Garrett replacement for $850 USD at "parts4engines.com". They are based in the UK. Volvo wanted $4,000 USD for the exact same part. Parts4engines.com delivered it in 48 hours from the UK to Maryland. Great service. Jeremy is the guy to deal with. Thought this might be helpful to some AMEL owners. 

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153
Herrington Harbour, MD

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


Re: Headsail furler issues

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, almost certainly carbon brushes, either stuck or worn

 Not hard to fix

 Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 28 September 2019 at 17:00 Adam Body <adamgcbody@...> wrote:

Our headsail furler has developed a problem. Our boat is a 1994 Super Maramu, previously named Amelie IV and renamed Flora. Located in Greenwell Point, NSW, Australia. The solenoids are both working (ie clicking). The furler rotates one direction but not the other direction. Each solenoid clicks when activated by the switch in the cockpit.  There is no noise or action in the furler motor or mechanism whne we attempt to rotate the furler in the direction it does not work. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best palce to start to investiage the problem? 
Thanks and regards Adam
1994 Super Maramu "Flora"  SM No. 128 1994 


Re: Solar and shade

Paul Brown
 

Hi Joerg,

I have two large panels over the dingy davits and fixed to the Simpson Davis and are wired in parallel which works if one panel is shaded... I’m working with a stainless steel designer to manufacture a platform that will house 4 large panels providing max power 1320w/24v which realistically should produce around Max 32A continuous under normal operating solar conditions e.g. full direct sun and raise the panels to around mizzen  boom height to reduce shading issues and allow ample head room when disembarking via the passerella 

Also mounting all 4 panels above the davits allow simple wiring through the davits and the lazarette and simple to wire 2x2 in parallel to reduce assist the shading effects

I hope to a achieve an aesthetic structure and stable for high winds with the Simpson Davits not being over loaded while gaining more rigidity into the Davit structure, I saw similar structures recently on many catamarans at the Cannes boat show

I considered mounting the two additional panels above the wheel house but I figure so many issues with shading and increased wiring and additional holes, also it may restrict the use of the sliding roof

If there is a more practical and better way to gain this level of generation and maximise its production with reduced shading effect by positioning then any assistant or comments would be greatly appreciated 

Kind regards Paul - Fortuna II 55/17






On 28 Sep 2019, at 8:41 am, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

I’m thinking about where to add more solar to my boat and the wheel house of the A55 is an obvious place.  Problem is that the space is often shaded by the boom, particularly at anchor.  Would it help to use two panels - one on starboard and one on port - with separate controllers?  

Joerg Esdorn 
A55 Kincsem
Currently in Cascais 


Solar and shade

Joerg Esdorn
 

I’m thinking about where to add more solar to my boat and the wheel house of the A55 is an obvious place.  Problem is that the space is often shaded by the boom, particularly at anchor.  Would it help to use two panels - one on starboard and one on port - with separate controllers?  

Joerg Esdorn 
A55 Kincsem
Currently in Cascais 


Headsail furler issues

Adam Body
 

I have run through the search function on this site and located some very useful posts on solenoids. The rotation that is failing is the "in" direction. I have pushed the button on the bottom of the "in" solenoid and the furler works---sometimes. So it does seem to be the solenoid. The four solenoids for the windlass and headsail are all the same: Valeo 24 V K93's.  I think they are original! So my next question is: what is the best up-to- date solenoid to replace these??
Adam Body "Flora"  (previously Ammelie IV) SM 0030017SM 128 Annee 1994


Headsail furler issues

Adam Body
 

Our headsail furler has developed a problem. Our boat is a 1994 Super Maramu, previously named Amelie IV and renamed Flora. Located in Greenwell Point, NSW, Australia. The solenoids are both working (ie clicking). The furler rotates one direction but not the other direction. Each solenoid clicks when activated by the switch in the cockpit.  There is no noise or action in the furler motor or mechanism whne we attempt to rotate the furler in the direction it does not work. Does anyone have suggestions as to the best palce to start to investiage the problem? 
Thanks and regards Adam
1994 Super Maramu "Flora"  SM No. 128 1994 


Parts4Engines - Vendor Experience

Ian Townsend
 

The turbocharger on our Volvo TMD22 needed replacing in a hurry. After consulting with Bill Rouse and online searcing for a source in the USA, we found an OEM Perkins-Garrett replacement for $850 USD at "parts4engines.com". They are based in the UK. Volvo wanted $4,000 USD for the exact same part. Parts4engines.com delivered it in 48 hours from the UK to Maryland. Great service. Jeremy is the guy to deal with. Thought this might be helpful to some AMEL owners. 

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153
Herrington Harbour, MD


Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

ngtnewington Newington
 

Ohms law

Watts=volts x amps


On 27 Sep 2019, at 17:09, Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Sure, I should say my solar is producing around 15A in direct sunlight, I would like around 30A production which would provide me with more than I would use in a day

Regards, Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:24 pm, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul Brown
 

Hi Thomas 

Thank you so much for sharing and it certainly helps me moving forward, you have a strong system and I’d expect it works well for you

I’m certainly expecting that more  solar generation than less is a good thing 

Bring on solar decks and sails.

Regards Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 7:48 pm, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi Paul,

3 Bisol panels: BMO-300
Rated power :300W, 
Rated current: 9.40A
Rated voltage: 31.9V
Short circuit current: 9.75A
Open circuit voltage: 39.7V
Weight: 18.5kg

Mounted in series 

Cabling: ~25m of 10mm^2 between the panels and the regulator. A few feet of 25mm^2 between the regulator and the batteries. I worked some numbers and the theory says wiring in series causes ~5W loss in the cable, parallel would be ~40W.

Hope that helps

Best,
Thomas




On 27 Sep 2019, at 05:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Paul,

3 Bisol panels: BMO-300
Rated power :300W, 
Rated current: 9.40A
Rated voltage: 31.9V
Short circuit current: 9.75A
Open circuit voltage: 39.7V
Weight: 18.5kg

Mounted in series 

Cabling: ~25m of 10mm^2 between the panels and the regulator. A few feet of 25mm^2 between the regulator and the batteries. I worked some numbers and the theory says wiring in series causes ~5W loss in the cable, parallel would be ~40W.

Hope that helps

Best,
Thomas




On 27 Sep 2019, at 05:24, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul Brown
 

Sure, I should say my solar is producing around 15A in direct sunlight, I would like around 30A production which would provide me with more than I would use in a day

Regards, Paul - Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:24 pm, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Matt Salatino
 

You, sir, are correct!
Amps is an instantaneous measurement of current.
Amp hours are over time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:19 AM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com





Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Matt
only to be correct, mybe you also mix something
Amps are not power
Amps are current
Power (el) is Watt

Regards
Hanspeter

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : helmsmatt@...
Datum : 27/09/2019 - 13:56 (MS)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Paul, you may be mixing up amps and amp-hours (ah).
Amps is the real-time power.
Ah is over a time period.

~~~ ⛵️~~~ Matt

On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Paul Brown < feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Hello Thomas, as a matter of interest could you please let me know the specifications of solar panels and configuration? 200ah is excellent generation and I’m wanting to double my 600w/24 solar, it produces around 15ah in direct sun light.

Kind regards Paul
Fortuna II 55/17


On 27 Sep 2019, at 5:15 am, Sv Garulfo < svgarulfo@...> wrote:


Solar perf:
I measured 5.5kWh in 24h, so 229Ah @ 24V nominal, but really 200Ah at 27.5V which is more the battery voltage. Interestingly, a slight overcast seems to be beneficial to solar production. 

90%SOC management:
I dug a bit more in the BMS configuration and the MasterVolt BMS triggers events at various SOC; >20%, >40%, >60%, >80% and ‘battery full’ which is 95% by default but configurable to other level. Those events can be used to control other components on the MasterBus, like buzzing the EasyView5, switching the chargers to float phase, or stopping them altogether. 
I need to test that and, in particular, confirm what happens to the chargers when the level goes back below ‘battery full’, but it could be the solution to long term dock SOC management in the MasterVolt ecosystem. 

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 



On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 11:21, Sv Garulfo via Groups.Io <svgarulfo= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
ML disconnect relay: 
product number 7702B, rated 500A. I have one for each of the 2 batteries. The relays draw no current in ON or OFF state. There are wires to set the relay states depending on what the default state should be. In our setup, the wiring to the battery’s BMS ports is specified explicitly in the documentation so there is no head scratching to do. 


Solar:
We have produced about 100KWh a month historically (~140Ah@24V a day). We are having very good sun at the moment so I’ll measure a max production day today. The max Amps I saw going in was 36A in Curaçao last summer. Our production during the Pacific crossing, Gambier and southern Tuamotus in April-July was pretty poor with cloudy conditions and relatively low sun elevation.

Our wet locker doesn’t get wet. We are lucky to cruise in places were we don’t need foul weather clothes. We quickly vacuum packed and stowed those away. And the Amel cockpit helps with that. 

Yes, breakfast toasts, 2mins of microwave here and there to reheat food, boiling water in 60s or cooking smelly food outside on the portable induction stove. All good examples of how it changes life onboard. 

Long term storage or dock: 
I would say, if we are aboard at the dock, I would let the solar deal with the batteries and use shore power for the others appliances of required. If we are off the boat for a long time, we would just switch everything off and not keep the shore power on. We left the boat in Curaçao for 2months last year and with everything off, the batteries lost less than 5% SOC.

Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Rangiroa, French Polynesia 




On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 09:13, Scott SV Tengah < Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Thomas, 

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding your ML disconnect relay, which model are you using? For their disconnect relays, I only see 120amp max
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/37/Non-Critical_Load_Disconnects

Or did you use this charge disconnect? If so, any idea how I could use it with my system? 500amps may just be enough! The VE.BUS BMS load disconnect sends out 27v (more or less) when all is good and goes to open circuit when there is a problem with the batteries and the load needs to be disconnected. The other option, as someone suggested, is to buy THREE Victron BP-220 and attach one to each 25.8v pair. I presume that would give me 660 amps total?

Regarding your solar setup, any idea how many AH per day you average? Curious how that compares to our setup. We have a bit more rated capacity and we're doing parallel as noted before.  Also, do you have any concerns with your MPPT getting wet? We definitely use that wet locker for...wet items. 

The Victron Quattro also allows you to limit the input on both the 230v inputs. I leave the genset at 50amps but adjust the shore power as appropriate. That was very useful in Greece when we were "plugged into" someone's house circuit. Limiting it to 8 amps prevented constantly tripping their circuit breaker. :)

Regarding your shop vac'ing the engine room, we all get our kicks from somewhere I guess! My joy is in using the electric kettle and the microwave when I'm too lazy to do a proper meal and not having to fire up the genset.

To figure out SOC and charging voltage, I just played around. For example, my Mastervolt Alpha Pro2 set at 27.5v absorption will stop charging at about 90-93% SOC as reported on the Victron BMV-712 monitor. As you probably know, lifepo4 has very stable voltage until you hit the "knees" at near 0% SOC and 100% SOC. So you just have to play with it. I bet at 26.8v absorption, it'd be just about right for long term storage/docking.

I probably sound like a Victron rep, too, but like you, I just continued with choices made prior. My ecosystem lock-in with Victron started with the BlueSolar MPPT, which ironically I don't love!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com