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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Scott, All of the chargers on your Amel 54 are connected to the battery side of the Main Switch by Amel. It stands to reason that the output of the MPPT would also connect the the battery side of the Main Switch. BTW, it is important to connect the Negative output of the MPPT at least several feet from the shunt, otherwise the battery monitor readings are distorted. Regrettably, I have seen MPPT output connected to a single pair of batteries, but I have never seen anyone wire to a single battery as you stated...did you mean a single pair? For some reason, unknown to me, the 110 amp 24 volt alternator is connected to the house side of the Main Switch. I really wish someone could tell me why. It is a huge problem when workers respond with I have been "doing this for years" because regrettably they have years of experience doing it the wrong way and will never change. Best, CW Bill Rouse 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:25 PM karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Hmmm, I still don’t quite follow your explanation, Scott.
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If you have big enough cables from the batteries to the main 24V posts (ie no resistance at high amps), connecting at the post or the battery shouldn’t make any difference. If they connected to one of the batteries in a series pair that is NOT connected to the main 24v post, then the charge would almost certainly go to that battery preferentially. If the cables are not big enough to give zero resistance, the charge would go preferentially to the closest battery. If you mean that the + output cable from the MPPPs should be on the boat (load) side of the main battery switch, you would have to leave the switch “on” (“Marche”) to charge the batteries. On Kristy with Victron Skylla-i Charger and wet cell lead acid batteries the output is to the + and - posts where all for pairs of batteries are connected in parallel. The 3 MPPPs for the three pairs of solar panels are likewise connected to the same posts. I can turn off the battery switch and still let the solar panels charge when I’m away from the boat. The output can be monitored on remote panels, or by using the Bluetooth dongle on the MPPPs, but cannot be monitored with the primary 24V monitor which is on the boat side of the switch. It’s not ideal because the four pairs are not completely balance-charged, but correcting that seems a lot more complicated. So far this is working well for me. Kent Robertson S/V Kristy SM 243
On Aug 20, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows] I learned this through monitoring my batteries.The electrician connected the positive lead from the MPPT to the positive post of ONE of the batteries. His thought was that it would be like a bunch of interconnected cups. Once this first battery one got some charge, it would overflow the current into the next battery and so forth. I am no electrician so it sort of made sense at the time. Well, monitoring showed me that this does not actually occur. The Battery1 that was directly connected to the MPPT was always higher voltage than the rest. The further away from the MPPT-Battery1 connection, the lower the voltage. The entire bank was being actively imbalanced! Now I have the positive attached to the post where all the battery positives join. The batteries have remained balanced over the past year. I can't remember where I read it, but a marine electrician stated that "in case it wasn't obvious, you connect the MPPT output to the load." I don't quite have it perfect as it's where all the batteries join, but I'm going to relocate the MPPT anyways, so I'll connect it to the load then. Sorry, if my explanation isn't precise enough as I never studied engineering. Just lots of reading, lots of testing and lots of monitoring. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: 100M of 10mm rated stainless steel anchor ‘AMEL’
jlm@jlmertz.fr
Hello Paul Can you contact me 33 (0)663 393 174 Merci JLMERTZ on CottonBay Le 20/08/2019 à 18:54, Paul Brown a
écrit :
hello all,
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Rocna 40 kg for sale, Euro 500
Joerg Esdorn
New is 1200 plus, never used, kept as a spare since new in 2016. Located in Almerimar, Costa del Sol, until August 26.
Joerg Esdorn A55 Kincsem
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
I learned this through monitoring my batteries.
The electrician connected the positive lead from the MPPT to the positive post of ONE of the batteries. His thought was that it would be like a bunch of interconnected cups. Once this first battery one got some charge, it would overflow the current into the next battery and so forth. I am no electrician so it sort of made sense at the time. Well, monitoring showed me that this does not actually occur. The Battery1 that was directly connected to the MPPT was always higher voltage than the rest. The further away from the MPPT-Battery1 connection, the lower the voltage. The entire bank was being actively imbalanced! Now I have the positive attached to the post where all the battery positives join. The batteries have remained balanced over the past year. I can't remember where I read it, but a marine electrician stated that "in case it wasn't obvious, you connect the MPPT output to the load." I don't quite have it perfect as it's where all the batteries join, but I'm going to relocate the MPPT anyways, so I'll connect it to the load then. Sorry, if my explanation isn't precise enough as I never studied engineering. Just lots of reading, lots of testing and lots of monitoring. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
You are right about additional heat, at this time its quite cool here but that will change soon.
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But I just realized that we might use the old lead acid vent that is useless now. Its not huge but might get some heat out. As I undestand AMEL did the same with the 60 and mounted heat issue gear under the bunk. Oliver from Vela Nautica A54#39 Portugal Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium From: Scott SV Tengah To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io CC: I never considered adding more heat to the living spaces by venting it into the passageway/alley.
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Re: Parasailor for Mango
Dear Joerg, I now understand how the Parasailor can work on my Amel 54 without the bowsprit extension. You only use 2 lines when the Parasailor is Port or Starboard of the bow. Therefore the lines that I thought would be up against the bow side rails are always slack and not putting pressure on the side rails. Thanks again for your and Paul Brown's help with this issue. Best Regards Barry and Penny "Lady Penelope II" Amel. 54. #17 Antibes, France
On Monday, August 19, 2019, 8:00:13 PM GMT+2, Barry Connor via Groups.Io <connor_barry@...> wrote:
Hi Joerg, Thank's for your info on the Parasailor. I have attached a photo of my bowsprit. I would not have the light weight sail up when using the Parasailor. My thought is that if the Parasailor was straight ahead I would not have any issues with the lines but if the Parasailor was Port or Starboard then the lines coming in to the bowsprit would be touching my side rails at the bow. I am looking at a 55 on the next dock and I think your bowsprit extends out further than mine. I would like to hear from any 54's who have a Parasailor and how they get it to work? Currently having my 14 year old Dessalator membranes replaced by the Antibes Desolator technician. Very helpful folk. My Dessalaotor control board blew and as it is no longer available they sent it to The Netherlands for repair. I am really putting in a plug to Nicholas the son of the Dessalator founder to accept "credit cards". Best Barry and Penny "Lady Penelope II" Amel. 54 #17 Antibes France
On Sunday, August 18, 2019, 11:56:15 PM GMT+2, Joerg Esdorn via Groups.Io <jhe1313@...> wrote:
Hi Barry, there have been several Parasailor threads recently. Please check out my posts on using the Parasailor with the "Tacker". If you do, you won't need a bow sprit. I don't find I need a bow sprit on the 55 even with the "standard" setup with 2 sheets and 2 guys. I run the guys over rings attached to a shackle on the anchor fitting forward of the forestay. I talked to a Swiss 55 owner before I ordered my Parasailor who had initially gotten a bow sprit and ended up not needing it. I believe your bow setup is identical to that on the 55. So I would recommend not getting one, at least initially. The boat sails fine with or without mizzen but you gain additional speed with the mizzen unless you're below 160 degrees AWA, when the mizzen will partially blanket the Parasailor. It's not necessary to deploy the running backstays for the Parasailor. Joerg Esdorn A55 #53 Kincsem Currently parked in Almerimar
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Fw: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 main mast seal
To: Bob Hodkins Amel 54. #31 Hope this gets to you as the old site stopped. Barry ----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Barry Connor <connor_barry@...> To: Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 7:46:35 PM GMT+2 Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 main mast seal Dear Bob, Thank's for all the detail regarding having your mast pad replaced in Martinique. I bought the pad from Sonja at Amel Hyeres and was planning to have it done this year when passing by Hyeres on my way to my staging area in the Canaries before crossing. I might wait until I get to Martinique to get it done as they seem to have good system. Could be better than having a crane lift the mast whilst the boat is alongside a dock. Can yo tell me how much they charged to jack up the mast with hydraulic jacks and change the pad? We have just had Desolator technicians come on the boat at Vauban marina Antibes to change my 14 year old membranes which were less than 400 hours and install the repaired control board. I can not say how happy I am that I decided to let them do the work on the boat and not try to do it half hearted myself. My membranes looked horrible and really needed to be replaced even though they still worked, would not have lasted very much longer. They checked everything and tightened up and replaced some of my tubing for my fresh water after wash system which leaked sometimes, Ruedi on Amel 54 "Wasabi" will remember how this original installed tubing section does leak.. Stopped the salt water drip from the controller panel knob. The Dessalator factory technician was training a new French distributor agent to look after their systems. What I really noticed was that the system starts and changes quickly to "Good Quality" very quickly, less than 1 minute - it was taking about 5 minutes before I got "Good Quality". This could be an indication to other owners when to realize that you need to change your membranes. Best regards Barry and Penny "Lady Penelope II" Amel. 54. #17 Antibes, France
On Monday, August 6, 2018, 6:26:54 PM GMT+2, Barry Connor connor_barry@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Thank's Bob, This makes it easy to understand, I will only seal the outside edges with my 5200 which I believe will hold the pad together for awhile, I will be in the Caribbean in a year or so and would like to get the experts to do this for me. Did they replace with an original pad? I understand Amel are on August holiday, so I will inquire to get a pad when they are back. Thank's again to all for the help and advise. Best Regards Barry and Penny S/V Lady Penelope II Amel 54. #17 Sailing Croatia
On Monday, August 6, 2018, 6:45:28 AM EDT, Bob Hodgins bobh@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Barry, -
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Posted by: Barry Connor <connor_barry@...>
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Gregory Shea
Scott,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Could you explain in more detail what you mean by “I had no idea you're supposed to connect charger positive to the load and not the batteries, and especially not one of the batteries” in your Point 2. This may be a learning experience for me too. Greg Shea Sharki 133, Preveza
On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:
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100M of 10mm rated stainless steel anchor ‘AMEL’
hello all,
I am up grading my chain to a higher strength rating for storm anchoring and have 100M of Rated stainless steel 10mm chain, which was supplied with the delivery of my A55#17 when she was launched early 2013. The chain is in excellent condition from my inspection and has not been extensively used as we have sail perhaps no more than 3000NM if you would like to make an offer please contact me by email feeder.brown@... We are sailing south of France to Sicily till October or reply to this thread regards Paul Fortuna II 55#17
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Gregory Shea
Scott,
I wonder if you could explain in a bit more detail your statement in Point 2, "At the time, I had no idea you're supposed to connect charger positive to the load and not the
batteries, and especially not one of the batteries."
This may be a learning experience for me too.
Greg Shea
Sharki 133 Cap des iles, Preveza
On Aug 20, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Scott SV Tengah
I never considered adding more heat to the living spaces by venting it into the passageway/alley.
Perhaps my thinking is influenced by the high heat and high humidity I'm dealing with right now, but that passage berth, which is perfect for the off-watch crew member, gets warm enough as is. I'd be loathe to do anything that makes it even hotter. But you're right, the charger/inverter is mounted sideways in the engine compartment. We directed outside air right near the charger/inverter intake, similar to the old Dolphin setup. The Dolphin lasted 12 years, so I presume the "salt air" won't cause damage. And we don't see output tapering even after running it near capacity for longer periods. We followed the Victron recs for line size and used some online calculators to verify, so I'm not too concerned about voltage drop. That said, neither solution is ideal, imo. Boats are always compromises, I guess! -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Forward Looking Sonar
I had the EchoPilot 2-D on my boat when purchased 10 years ago. I found it of little use because it only sees a little over a boat length ahead when you really need it in water less than 4M deep. In muddy water if you are looking for a channel, it only sees directly in front of the boat. You have to turn the boat in hopes if identifying deeper water. I was rarely successful, and was as likely to stumble on the channel as find it with the sonar.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The transducer has since failed. I’m waiting until the 3D units get better and cheaper before I replace it. Kent Robertson S/V Kristy SN243
On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:
Hi Scott, To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides: - hunidity - heat - limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers airflow. - long wires I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the alley. I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air into the cabinet. The 120A5000W fits vertical. The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could install a new separation. The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room. No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room. Oliver from Vela Nautica A54#39 Portugal Sent from my Huawei Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium From: Scott SV Tengah To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io CC: I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Arlo
I would recommend publically listing their name so that others can avoid them and they learn that their are repercussions for doing work incorrectly or poorly. Just my 2 cents...
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Hi Scott,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
To place the charger in the engineroom has some downsides: - hunidity - heat - limited space so probably the charger is mounted sideways what lowers airflow. - long wires I customized widened the switch area and drilled ventilation holes to the alley. I install 120mm thermocontrolled fans with heat alarms to blow fresh air into the cabinet. The 120A5000W fits vertical. The lifepo is smaller than batteries before with same capacity so i could install a new separation. The starter batt is now behind the onan in the engine room. No more dirty lead in the cabin. Hydrogen Should not be an issue as most other yachts place the starter batt around the engine room. Oliver from Vela Nautica A54#39 Portugal Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel is going lithium From: Scott SV Tengah To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io CC: I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Scott SV Tengah
Kent,
I know it's Martinique, but I have had good experience with Caraibe Marine in Le Marin. They generally know Amels quite well. I had them redo my standing rigging and while all was not perfect, they fixed the problems without so much as a complaint. They really take pride in their work. I still had to double check everything but found far fewer problems than with other contractors. They do almost everything through their different "divisions" and while there's an argument that a monopoly is not good, having everything under the Caraibe umbrella means they can't point fingers at other contractors when something goes wrong. They have a decent relationship with and are very close to the Amel office down there. The Amel guys are very busy and don't do everything, but will gladly give technical advice to Caraibe Marine. The Amel guys aren't perfect at English so it's good that everyone is French. :) Let's just say I am literally sailing all the way back to Martinique for a few more items before heading through the Canal. -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: AMFA bilge pump rebuild kit
Hi to the group, I bought a spare Pump and rubber kit 3 months ago. Try www.vdm-reya.com .service kit9 is REF 219424 Greetings Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 in the way to Boston
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Re: AMFA bilge pump rebuild kit
Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
Hello,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I think its worth to rebuild the original Pump as long as the housing has no bad cracks. The AMFA pump is a very robust one. I even replaced the motor and gearbox when mine broke. Used Bosch truck wiper motor with similar rpm. Most newer pumps look like toys, compared to AMFA. As I said before truck tire tube is perfect replacement for flaps and diaphragma. Oliver from Vela Nautica A54#39 Portugal Sent from my Huawei Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] AMFA bilge pump rebuild kit From: "Mike Johnson via Groups.Io" To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io CC:
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Re: Always check your contractors' work
Good Grief!!! I’m glad you found the problems before much damage occurred. I hope you told the electrician what you found, and disparaged his lineage. There’s nothing wrong with giving a bad review on google, yelp, or on this or any other website. Otherwise, they never learn.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I’ve also had experiences like this, and unfortunately didn’t know enough to realize the errors before my CDrive was irreparably damaged by electrolysis when a charger/inverter failed. It was a 6 month $30,000 disaster by the time it was all repaired. I have since gotten a good handle on the Amel isolated ground and found a few other issues with other installations. Now my zincs are lasting over a year, instead of 4-6 months. I echo your advice to study up on what is to be done, or only have work done where other Amels have had excellent service. That said, wouldn’t it be nice if there was an Amel service center on the US midEastern seaboard? Martinique is a bit far to go if you have significant problems. I think they have since changed hands, but Deltaville Boat Yard on the Chesapeake wanted to do just that. They contacted Amel a few times but never even got a reply. Could we poll the membership to see where they have gotten excellent service and try to encourage a centrally-placed boatyard to specialize in Amel systems? Kent Robertson S/V Kristy SM243
On Aug 20, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:
Like many, I have used contractors to do work on our A54 that we either don't have the time, skills nor tools to do ourselves. This is simply delegation and leveraging our time because we don't want to spend our lives working on the boat full time. We bought the boat to go sailing, not become boat technicians! However, as I've been reminded again and again, always know what they are doing, why they're doing it and check to make sure they did it right. This is a bit of a venting post because I had some electricians work on Tengah in southern Spain and they literally did almost everything wrong. And the work was far from free. I won't name them publicly, but if you're in southern Spain and considering electrical work, feel free to private message me and I'll let you know whether you should avoid that particular electrician. A partial list: 1) They refused to read posts from this forum that I provided to them about the Amel isolated ground system. Their response, "I've been doing this for years, I don't need to read that." Well, installing the solar panels, they connected the solar panel negative to the arch, causing the Amel electrical leak detector to go nuts. Luckily I caught it before too much corrosion occurred. 2) From the MPPT controller, they connected both positive and negative directly to the batteries. For negative, this bypassed the shunt, so the battery monitor completely ignored the solar power output! Worse, for the positive, they wired it to ONE of the batteries. At the time, I had no idea you're supposed to connect charger positive to the load and not the batteries, and especially not one of the batteries. Luckily I caught that before too much damage occurred. 3) Yesterday, I noticed significantly reduced power output from my panels. I have a nearly 1kw array and the MPPT controller was outputting around 250w at midday into lithium batteries that were at 50% SOC. I spent a few hours checking everything, frustrated as hell because solar is just supposed to work without much maintenance. Turns out the culprit was that the electricians put bare wires into and out of the MPPT. So they either were too lazy or did not have the tools to put ferrules on the bare wire ends, which then slowly corroded enough to eventually limit power output. Moreover, one of the positive wire strands was very very close to shorting out! 4) I asked for a neg/pos pair of wires on the arch from the 24v batteries so I could install a wifi extender in the near future. They provided those wires and two weeks later I was ready to install my wifi extender. For kicks, I put the multimeter to the wires and saw 35 volts! Turns out they connected those wires to the panels and not our 24v battery system. If I didn't check, the panels would have fried the wifi extender. And if they didn't, the wifi extender would have mysteriously turned off at night. 5) Finally, they put the MPPT into the enclosed space where the main battery switches are. With nearly 1000 watts flowing into the charge controller, it certainly heats up. By 4pm, that enclosed space gets over 50c! Now I have to find a way to move and re-wire the MPPT to a location with more ventilation. I'm sure you have all either had or will have this experience. It almost seems that it takes more time to hire someone to do work on your boat than to do it yourself. But it's a necessary evil, so going forward, I generally educate myself about what they're doing before they're doing it and watch every step of the way to make sure they do it right. Easy for those of you with engineering backgrounds, a bit harder for those of us from the business world. :) /End Venting -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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Re: Amel is going lithium
Scott SV Tengah
I guess this is a reminder that I still owe the group my writeup. :)
Oliver, how do you vent the compartment where you've installed the Victron 24/5000/120 inverter/charger? I mounted mine in the engine compartment (connected with the recommended 2x pair of 50mm2 wires - not 95mm2 as I previously mentioned) in the same location as the old Dolphin 100amp charger, with the same ventilation from outside as the original Amel setup. Even then, the charger/inverter gets damn hot especially when we are cooking and the induction, microwave and boiler are drawing tons of current. Or when it's charging at the full 120 amps. Part of the reason I ask is that the electricians installed the Victron 150/35 MPPT in the same compartment where you installed your charger/inverter (where the main battery switches are) and I'm getting very high temperatures in that closed compartment after a full day's charging. If you've figured out a good cooling solution, I'd rather implement that than try to move my MPPT! I was considering adding a little timer controlled 24v fan on the vent in the battery compartment and connecting the two compartments, but haven't for two reasons: (1) Amel kept the two compartments isolated. I am loathe to violate that as they probably did that for a reason (2) The fan is just another part to fail and I have enough things to keep up with already! -- Scott 2007 A54 #69 SV Tengah http://www.svtengah.com
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