Date   

Re: Amel is going lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hanspeter,

Given the tone of your message, I get the impression that you're quite argumentative. I'm not interested in getting into an internet urination contest, so I'll just provide data and verifiable facts for you.

First, you are close to correct in the water maker calc. Yes, I make water on battery alone, generally with a fully charged battery. I am not on the boat now - damn hurricane season, but the manual tells me the 24v duo 100 motor draws 600watts. Lithium fully charged is 3.6 volts per cell and has a very small voltage drop on such a small load given my 450ah/24 bank. Even the windlass doesn't result in a huge voltage drop. People who have not used lithium are amazed when they see that. So we'll be conservative and use your 25 amps per hour. I average about 80l/hr from my Duo100. That's 11.25 hours to fill up an empty water tank. The Peukert effect is negligible on a lifepo4 battery, another surprise for many so 25*11.25 = 281.25AH.  Given my battery bank is 450AH, the battery bank still has 60% left after making water for almost half a day.

For the solar panels, I'll just attach the latest data output from my Victron solar charge controller. I use LG Neon2 320w panels x 3. 

Fair winds,

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Theo s/v Paloma
 

I used cat litter with great success when I was leaving my ex-Lagoon 450 in New Zealand off season. I bought several aluminum disposable cooking pans, filled them with cat litter and placed them in each room.

I also opened every drawer and cabinet so that it airs. All hatches and doors were closed and locked. 

Theo
s/v Paloma
Amel 50 #18


Re: Amel is going lithium

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Scott
amazing
so on your electric solar system you produce an average of 8.3 A on 24 v
! even by night!
Tell us what special kind of solar panal you use !
And btw you use the Duo watermaker (60 or 100 l/h ? )only via the batteries?
No engine or genset on ?
The watermaker use about 25 a at 24 volt. Really I‘m interested to know more
about your new tecnical installation
again amazing ?!?
regards Hanspeter
SM 16, Tamango 2
Trinidad by Peake
PS
Dear Bill R.
please comment

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 5. Aug, 2019 um 23:04, Scott SV Tengah schrieb:

[Edited Message Follows]

Porter,

I have the Duo and generally make water using the batteries. Something about running the genset, putting all that soot in the water and then sucking it up to make water makes me nervous! I run the water maker as 220v now and then to keep things from corroding from non-use.

How many Ah do you get a day from your wind generator on average? We get about 200-250AH a day from our solar panels and it's nearly enough. I'm at the point now where I worry that we're not using the genset enough and it'll develop problems from non-use.

But as they say, energy is like money. You think you'll be happy with X but then you get to X and you think, but if I only I had Y more, I would have enough. :)
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
www.svtengah.com


Re: Mango Sail sizes

 

Gerry,

I like all Amel models, including the newest 50 and 60. Some models are an evolution of previous Amels, and some models break new ground like some of the first models Henri Amel made. Sometimes when someone explains the difference between one model and the next, the listener can get the unintended impression that one is better than the other. 

You are correct, this forum is certainly not the place for this subject. 

If you want to have a private discussion about the differences, or about anything, contact me at bill"at"yachtschool.us.
--
 
Best,
 
Bill Rouse
Yacht School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Craig Briggs
 

Marina Seca in San Carlos, Mexico has some great storage tips for all their customers, including being sure seal all open through hulls with something like bronze wool to keep the bugs and vermin out while allowing any water to weep out. So if you run the dehumidified drain tube through the depth sounder hole, be sure to wrap it snugly.
Craig SN68


Re: B & G Hydra System For Sale

Seckin Barlas
 

Hi Elaine;

I would be interested in BG hydra system.
Can you pleae give me info about the price location…etc

Seckin 
SY HAYAT 
SM76

On 3 Aug 2019, at 06:40, Elaine Leishman via Groups.Io <leishman.elaine@...> wrote:

Selling B & G hydra system as removed from 1999 Super Maramu.  Working, except for a fault with the wind transducer.  Sonic speed sensors are brand new, never installed.  Will package and post worldwide.  Contact Elaine via the group.  We also have a lot of spare parts for the Volvo Penta engine and the Onan genset.
Elaine
SM 251 Nebo


Re: Amel is going lithium

Paul Brown
 

Scott,  

No I don’t run any appliances that require the genset usually until the batteries require charging then I make water etc, of course if I require the aircon I need to run the genset


Regards Paul 


On 6 Aug 2019, at 2:50 am, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:

Paul, 

You're running all of those appliances during your 12+ day intervals between running genset? 

I have 960w and can put in 200-250ah a day. I may upgrade and add another 400w on the bimini but I fear I'll just upgrade my usage too! 
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Lucy,

it is better if you take out the depth-sensor and run a hose from the dehumidifier through the hull. I would not recommend draining to the bilge if nobody will check the bilge for such a long time.

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan Mexico.


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

Hallo 
I took my deep sounder out. So you do not have to run the bilge pump.  
Fare winds 
Heinz, quetzal, sm2000, 292


Am 06.08.2019 um 03:56 schrieb Starfish via Groups.Io <lucyannepearce@...>:

Hi 
We are going to haul out our Super Maramu 2000 for 3-4 months in Greneda.

We have been advised to use a dehumidifier to prevent mould/mildew because the boat will be watertight with no ventilation.

Is it alright to let the dehumidifier drain into the bilge pump and leave the power on to let the bilge pump run for 3 months?

Is there a better solution?

Thanks in advance
Lucy 


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Leopold Hauer
 

Hi Lucy

An easy solution is to pull out the deep sensor and drain through this hole.

Leopold

YinYang SM 69  Samoa

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 06.08.2019 um 14:56 schrieb Starfish via Groups.Io <lucyannepearce@...>:

Hi 
We are going to haul out our Super Maramu 2000 for 3-4 months in Greneda.

We have been advised to use a dehumidifier to prevent mould/mildew because the boat will be watertight with no ventilation.

Is it alright to let the dehumidifier drain into the bilge pump and leave the power on to let the bilge pump run for 3 months?

Is there a better solution?

Thanks in advance
Lucy 


Re: Mango Sail sizes

Joerg Esdorn
 

Hi Gerry, I have owned a 55 for 4 years and sailed it some 9000 miles.   I’m not selling it. I think you should talk to real owners, rather than consultants or people interested in selling you something. I’m available if you want.  Cheers. Joerg 

Joerg Esdorn 
A55, #53
Kincsem


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Matt Salatino
 

Set the dehumidifier on the galley counter. Drain it into the galley sink. Does the galley sink drain overboard, or into a grey water tank? If overboard, no problem. If into a tank, then you’ll need to accommodate a pump.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 5, 2019, at 9:56 PM, Starfish via Groups.Io <lucyannepearce@...> wrote:

Hi 
We are going to haul out our Super Maramu 2000 for 3-4 months in Greneda.

We have been advised to use a dehumidifier to prevent mould/mildew because the boat will be watertight with no ventilation.

Is it alright to let the dehumidifier drain into the bilge pump and leave the power on to let the bilge pump run for 3 months?

Is there a better solution?

Thanks in advance
Lucy 


Re: Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

 

Lucy,

This is your first posting. Please add your model and hull number to your future postings, (example STARFISH SM 387)

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Yacht School - Supporting Amel Owners
www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 9:59 PM Starfish via Groups.Io <lucyannepearce=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi 
We are going to haul out our Super Maramu 2000 for 3-4 months in Greneda.

We have been advised to use a dehumidifier to prevent mould/mildew because the boat will be watertight with no ventilation.

Is it alright to let the dehumidifier drain into the bilge pump and leave the power on to let the bilge pump run for 3 months?

Is there a better solution?

Thanks in advance
Lucy 


Haul out preparation - use of a dehumidifier

Lucy Pearce sv Starfish
 

Hi 
We are going to haul out our Super Maramu 2000 for 3-4 months in Greneda.

We have been advised to use a dehumidifier to prevent mould/mildew because the boat will be watertight with no ventilation.

Is it alright to let the dehumidifier drain into the bilge pump and leave the power on to let the bilge pump run for 3 months?

Is there a better solution?

Thanks in advance
Lucy 


Re: Amel is going lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 

Paul, 

You're running all of those appliances during your 12+ day intervals between running genset? 

I have 960w and can put in 200-250ah a day. I may upgrade and add another 400w on the bimini but I fear I'll just upgrade my usage too! 
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Genoa car springs

Alan Leslie
 

The cars are Antal genoa cars 160mm long. I found similar in the Antal catalogue and the local Antal dealer was able to source the springs for that model
I don't know about anodising preventing corrosion, this stainless rod is well and truly stuck...it may have to stay that way.
Cheers
Alan
 SM437


Re: Amel is going lithium

Paul Brown
 

Hi,

As comment,

I am not so technically minded and have always been under knowledgeable when it comes to boat batterie systems and the carful management required in my 15 years of ownership with power boats and yachts.

Last year in April 2018 I purchased my first Amel, an A55#17 launched 2013 and in 2015 the owner upgraded the entire system to a lithium 720ah Mastervolt. With the purchase I gained a life changing experience, in the respect we constantly run the house down close to 20% before recharging by genset or underway and now I have upgraded the solar to Mastervolt management and Panasonic 550W panels, generally we can live on anchor 12+ days before recharge or making water or running Airconditioning or washing machine or sail for 4+ days using electric winches and navigation equipment constantly, which is very satisfactory I feel. I figure if I could double my solar I may not require additional generation of electricity and perhaps not require a genset at all, with some further modifications to the 220v appliances 

I look forward to what’s after lithium and would recommend mastervolt and their lithium and management systems

Of course this is only my experience and opinion 

Regards Paul - Fortuna II A55#17




On 5 Aug 2019, at 11:20 pm, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:

Dean,

I'll try to write something up over the next week or so. Honestly, I'm very particular about my battery bank since it wasn't cheap and I only get nervous when it goes below 25% state of charge. All the literature tells me that even at 20% SOC, you're going to get 2000 cycles out of your batteries, but my concern is that the reported SOC is a bit of an average. Each battery has 4 cells and I have 6 batteries, so if one of those 24 cells drops below 2.5v or so, it could damage that cell and hence the 4-cell battery irreversibly. The SOC number doesn't reflect individual cell voltages, only the bank as a whole.

Of course I have a BMS that monitors individual cells, but given the way an Amel is wired, even that solution isn't perfect. I will expand on that in my longer post explaining my system and the challenges I faced. But for me, to be safe, I start up the genset if the bank drops below 25%. 

I am considering adding an automatic trigger to start the genset at 25% state of charge and stop the genset at 75% SOC. But that presents other problems, so I'm hesitating. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel is going lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 

Dean,

I'll try to write something up over the next week or so. Honestly, I'm very particular about my battery bank since it wasn't cheap and I only get nervous when it goes below 25% state of charge. All the literature tells me that even at 20% SOC, you're going to get 2000 cycles out of your batteries, but my concern is that the reported SOC is a bit of an average. Each battery has 4 cells and I have 6 batteries, so if one of those 24 cells drops below 2.5v or so, it could damage that cell and hence the 4-cell battery irreversibly. The SOC number doesn't reflect individual cell voltages, only the bank as a whole.

Of course I have a BMS that monitors individual cells, but given the way an Amel is wired, even that solution isn't perfect. I will expand on that in my longer post explaining my system and the challenges I faced. But for me, to be safe, I start up the genset if the bank drops below 25%. 

I am considering adding an automatic trigger to start the genset at 25% state of charge and stop the genset at 75% SOC. But that presents other problems, so I'm hesitating. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel is going lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

The small cycles don't really bother lithium. Granted this is only one biased source but I've seen plenty of other non-biased sources stating the same. 

https://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/130701906811/faq-lifepo4-cycle-life-based-on-dod-the-graph

We typically try to go no lower than 70% DOD and that should get us thousands and thousands of cycles. That is over 10 years even as full time liveaboards.

One solution, which requires some experimentation, is to set lower absorption voltages. It's not super easy as lithium doesn't drop in voltage much as you draw them down or even when you have high current draws, for that matter. So it's hard to pick a voltage to get your target state of charge level. But based on my observations, if you set around 27.2V absorption on my Victron lifepo4 batteries, that should get you around 50-60% state of charge, near ideal for long term storage and hence the ideal "full" level when you're on shore power.



--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
www.svtengah.com


Re: Amel is going lithium

Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

Porter,

I have the Duo and generally make water using the batteries. Something about running the genset, putting all that soot in the water and then sucking it up to make water makes me nervous! I run the water maker as 220v now and then to keep things from corroding from non-use.

How many Ah do you get a day from your wind generator on average? We get about 200-250AH a day from our solar panels and it's nearly enough. I'm at the point now where I worry that we're not using the genset enough and it'll develop problems from non-use.

But as they say, energy is like money. You think you'll be happy with X but then you get to X and you think, but if I only I had Y more, I would have enough. :)
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
www.svtengah.com