Date   

Re: Dessslator HP hoses

John Clark
 

If you reuse fittings make sure the hose tech knows how to do it. I had hoses made in the US with the reusable fittings.  The hoses lasted about five hours before leaking internally bubbles under the sheathing and dribbling water.  Luckily I caught it before they blew.  Bought new hoses in Martinique.


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 11:47 AM Aldo Roldan via Groups.Io <aroldan1796=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Alan.  Would you please provide the Dessalator US rep information? I was not aware they had one.  Thank you . Aldo

A55- Araucaria 

On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:46 AM, Alan Grayson <bazgrayson@...> wrote:

Hi All, im about to order new HP hoses from the dessalator rep in the US. The end fittings are reusable and so you only need to buy the hose unless like me one of your ends are damaged.
There are 2 options for this.
1: buy the hose from France and any ends that you need. Hose $40 fittings $93.00 each, shipping $70
2: buy new hose and ends from the US. the hose is different and the fittings are slightly different with the same threaded ends. They are not interchangeable. Cost of 2 new hoses $472.00
I'm buying the hose and 1 end fitting from France.
If anyone else wants to buy either hoses or fittings from France and add to my order please let me know by Thurs 25th by noon eastern time. The order will be shipping to me in Annapolis and i'll forward from here if you pay shipping to your destination.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai
Annapolis, MD


Re: Shore power contactor burnt out

eric freedman
 

Hi Emmons,

With the switch in the cabin, is it possible to send AC down the shore power cord with the generator running?

The purpose of the contactor is to disconnect the generator from the shore power cord.

Fair Winds

Eric

sm

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eamonn Washington
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 12:25 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Shore power contactor burnt out

 

Hi

the good news is that I found a competent electrician in Cagliari, Sandro (tel 3476327483, only speaks Italian), and a place to get the stator rewound (Matta Electromeccanica, tel 070 284 647).  Without the helpful staff at Marina del Sole I would not have got this far.

The stator weighs about 60kg, the copper had completely melted.  The rotor was fine.  Matta will charge 500 euros plus 22% VAT for the rewinding of the stator.

I will install a double pole 20A breaker in a box in the aft lazarette like Bill suggested.  (I don’t want this generator problem again.)  Also I will install a manual relay switch in the galley to replace the burnt out contactor in the cockpit locker, with a middle OFF position, rated for at least 32A.

Thanks for all the support on this forum, it provided invaluable help.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy.


Re: Water maker Questions

Gary Silver
 

Hi Barry:

I used a timer nearly identical to this:   https://www.amazon.com/ustyle-Digital-Programmable-Precision-Anti-Interference/dp/B07TC9Z45J/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=24+volt+fish+feeder+timer&qid=1564180095&s=gateway&sr=8-7 

I believe mine is just a slightly older version.   I wired it's output to a second "ganged" 24 volt relay just to make sure I didn't overload or shorten the life of the contacts of the relay in this timer.  The coil of the second relay is wired such that when the timer calls for flushing (i.e. the timer closes its "NO" (normally open) contact, it energizes the more robust relay coil.  The second relays contacts are wired into the fresh water pressurization CB (circuit breaker)  wiring.  When I leave the boat, I switch the timer from the "run" (i.e. always on) position to the timer position then move the valve in the engine room to the flush position.  Thus when flush is called for the timer, energizes the second "ganged" relay, turns on the fresh water pump that runs for the programmed length of time (in my case 2 minutes every other day).  My system goes thru about 200 liters of H20 in 6 months on the hard using this schedule.  Others may vary based on the pump etc.  I just put a bucket where the flush water comes out on the port side of the boat, ran the program and measured the through-put of the water.  The only down side is that when on the boat and the timer is set to the run position, the ganged really is continuously energized (using a small amount of electricity) and you have to leave the main battery switches on to provide 24 Vdc power to the timer/relay circuity.  Mine has been running perfectly for about 11-12 years now.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona    Amel SM 2000 #335
On the hard in Puerto Del Rey - Puerto Rico


Re: Water maker Questions

seagasm
 

While we are on the subject of water makers, I would like to add a timer to ours for flushing. Who of you have used a timer and what/where to purchase from. I would assume here that it would be a 24volt unit setup so any available suggestions is appreciated.

Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson

Tradewinds III SM 171

On 27/07/19 02:04, Thomas Peacock wrote:
Thanks to everyone who responded. I can’t say enough about this group!

Some of the suggestions spurred me on to further research, down many rabbit holes. I’d like to give a synopsis of what I learned, read on only if interested, obviously. 

It was reassuring to find out that the 280 TDS is within a very reasonable range. I am going to clean the membranes, 2% citric acid solution for acid, and 2% sodium metasilicate for the alkaline. I’ll see if that buffs up the TDS at all.

Indeed, the World Health Organization, and many governmental agencies has standards for TDS in drinking water, with a spectrum of acceptability, generally over 1,000 being unacceptable, but less than 500 as desirable.

However, not all TDS are created equal. TDS is generally anions, cations, and organic molecules. They may occur due to leaching from the ground water table, or agricultural runoff. Where I live (northeastern US), many homes with wells have high TDS due to the wells being in limestone and other similar rock formations. The usual problem from high TDS here is “hard water”, due to excessive calcium and magnesium. This can cause buildup of deposits in plumbing, and poor washing with detergents and soaps.

In other parts of the world, high TDS may be due to agricultural runoff, and include phosphates and organic molecules.

For our purposes on a boat, TDS reflects residual anions and cations from the sea water. In this case, it is almost exclusively sodium and chloride. 

So, high TDS not associated with water makers is usually calcium, magnesium (plus or minus organics); indeed, San Pellegrino water, a highly regarded drinking water from Italy, has 1,100 TDS (mostly calcium, magnesium, and sulfate), unacceptable by some standards, but tasty to many people. 

High TDS on a boat with a RO water maker implies poorly functioning membranes, will be mostly sodium and chloride, and, for many people, becomes unpalatable above 400 TDS. There is not a USA EPA standard for sodium in drinking water, but the EPA does recommend not exceeding 250 mg per liter of chloride. This standard is predominantly an “aesthetic” one, and reflects the salty taste that a level of 250 or above will impart to the water. As per Dessalator’s specs, RO water with a TDS of 250 has 183 mg per liter of chloride. The conclusion that I would draw from this is a TDS of about 350 or above would exceed the EPA’s recommendation. Again, this is predominantly a taste concern, but there are some potential health effects. People with heart or kidney problems may not tolerate it well and retain fluid as the TDS rises.

Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay, USA



On Jul 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Thomas Peacock via Groups.Io <peacock8491@...> wrote:

I’m hoping to get a few tips on our water maker. We have a LaRochelle installed Dessalator, I believe a D60, SM 240, 24 volts only. We have used it only sporadically. 
I put new membranes in 2 years ago. I am trying to be sure it works properly, we are in the Chesapeake Bay, which is only brackish water so we don’t use it there. Going to Martinique this fall. 
The Dessalator manual at one point says we should have 250 TDS, at another it says 500, which certainly tastes brackish. 
At 40 bar we get 270, at 60 bar about 330, which then goes down to 280 after about 5 minutes. We get 0.75 liters/minute. 
Is this acceptable performance? I am more concerned about the TDS than the rate. I would like to clean the membranes as suggested by Dessalator, all they say is “cleaning solution”. Is this the same as the pickling compound, sodium metabisulfite? 
Thanks as always for everyone’s insights. 
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay








Bathroom Trash Can Replacement

Mark Erdos
 

A little while ago someone asked about replacement for the Amel trash cans in the heads. I have been looking for quite some time. In Novey (a hardware store chain in Panama) I recently found the perfect replacement. It is made by RIMAX the UPC code is 7-70512-03712. It is 100% plastic so no concerns about corroding parts. The best part: only $6 each.

 

Bathroom trash can replacement 1.JPGBathroom trash can replacement 2.JPGBathroom trash can replacement 3.JPG

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 


Re: Storm tactics

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi Eric

when you were in the hurricane did you have the standard stern cleats then?  Are the super reinforced cleats that you now have the same size at the Amel originals with a bigger backing plate?

I bought a JSD a couple of years ago after I read about your experience.  I had the impression that you just used the standard cleats at the time.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy.


Re: Shower spray handle

karkauai
 

Thanks Barry!

Kent
S/V Kristy

On Jul 26, 2019, at 12:36 PM, seagasm <seagasm@...> wrote:

Kent, the fitting came with a hose as well which I connected to the mixer without any problems. Seems to be a regular plumbing fixture.

Kind Regards
Barry
Tradewinds III SM 171

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 22:45, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243

--
Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson

Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia


Re: Shower spray handle

seagasm
 

Kent, the fitting came with a hose as well which I connected to the mixer without any problems. Seems to be a regular plumbing fixture.

Kind Regards
Barry
Tradewinds III SM 171

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 22:45, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243

--
Kind Regards
Barry Ferguson

Email: seagasm@...
Mobile/cell: +61 477 652 046
PO Box 1339
Hervey Bay Qld 4655
Australia


Re: Shore power contactor burnt out

Eamonn Washington
 

Hi

the good news is that I found a competent electrician in Cagliari, Sandro (tel 3476327483, only speaks Italian), and a place to get the stator rewound (Matta Electromeccanica, tel 070 284 647).  Without the helpful staff at Marina del Sole I would not have got this far.

The stator weighs about 60kg, the copper had completely melted.  The rotor was fine.  Matta will charge 500 euros plus 22% VAT for the rewinding of the stator.

I will install a double pole 20A breaker in a box in the aft lazarette like Bill suggested.  (I don’t want this generator problem again.)  Also I will install a manual relay switch in the galley to replace the burnt out contactor in the cockpit locker, with a middle OFF position, rated for at least 32A.

Thanks for all the support on this forum, it provided invaluable help.

Eamonn Washington
Travel Bug
Super Maramu #151
Currently in Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy.


Re: Water maker Questions

Thomas Peacock
 

Thanks to everyone who responded. I can’t say enough about this group!

Some of the suggestions spurred me on to further research, down many rabbit holes. I’d like to give a synopsis of what I learned, read on only if interested, obviously.

It was reassuring to find out that the 280 TDS is within a very reasonable range. I am going to clean the membranes, 2% citric acid solution for acid, and 2% sodium metasilicate for the alkaline. I’ll see if that buffs up the TDS at all.

Indeed, the World Health Organization, and many governmental agencies has standards for TDS in drinking water, with a spectrum of acceptability, generally over 1,000 being unacceptable, but less than 500 as desirable.

However, not all TDS are created equal. TDS is generally anions, cations, and organic molecules. They may occur due to leaching from the ground water table, or agricultural runoff. Where I live (northeastern US), many homes with wells have high TDS due to the wells being in limestone and other similar rock formations. The usual problem from high TDS here is “hard water”, due to excessive calcium and magnesium. This can cause buildup of deposits in plumbing, and poor washing with detergents and soaps.

In other parts of the world, high TDS may be due to agricultural runoff, and include phosphates and organic molecules.

For our purposes on a boat, TDS reflects residual anions and cations from the sea water. In this case, it is almost exclusively sodium and chloride.

So, high TDS not associated with water makers is usually calcium, magnesium (plus or minus organics); indeed, San Pellegrino water, a highly regarded drinking water from Italy, has 1,100 TDS (mostly calcium, magnesium, and sulfate), unacceptable by some standards, but tasty to many people.

High TDS on a boat with a RO water maker implies poorly functioning membranes, will be mostly sodium and chloride, and, for many people, becomes unpalatable above 400 TDS. There is not a USA EPA standard for sodium in drinking water, but the EPA does recommend not exceeding 250 mg per liter of chloride. This standard is predominantly an “aesthetic” one, and reflects the salty taste that a level of 250 or above will impart to the water. As per Dessalator’s specs, RO water with a TDS of 250 has 183 mg per liter of chloride. The conclusion that I would draw from this is a TDS of about 350 or above would exceed the EPA’s recommendation. Again, this is predominantly a taste concern, but there are some potential health effects. People with heart or kidney problems may not tolerate it well and retain fluid as the TDS rises.

Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay, USA

On Jul 23, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Thomas Peacock via Groups.Io <peacock8491=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m hoping to get a few tips on our water maker. We have a LaRochelle installed Dessalator, I believe a D60, SM 240, 24 volts only. We have used it only sporadically.
I put new membranes in 2 years ago. I am trying to be sure it works properly, we are in the Chesapeake Bay, which is only brackish water so we don’t use it there. Going to Martinique this fall.
The Dessalator manual at one point says we should have 250 TDS, at another it says 500, which certainly tastes brackish.
At 40 bar we get 270, at 60 bar about 330, which then goes down to 280 after about 5 minutes. We get 0.75 liters/minute.
Is this acceptable performance? I am more concerned about the TDS than the rate. I would like to clean the membranes as suggested by Dessalator, all they say is “cleaning solution”. Is this the same as the pickling compound, sodium metabisulfite?
Thanks as always for everyone’s insights.
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay



Re: Dessslator HP hoses

Mark McGovern
 

Aldo,

It's Mark Fruehauf at www.balcen.com. Email is info at balcen.com.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Dessslator HP hoses

Aldo Roldan
 

Alan.  Would you please provide the Dessalator US rep information? I was not aware they had one.  Thank you . Aldo

A55- Araucaria 

On Jul 23, 2019, at 11:46 AM, Alan Grayson <bazgrayson@...> wrote:

Hi All, im about to order new HP hoses from the dessalator rep in the US. The end fittings are reusable and so you only need to buy the hose unless like me one of your ends are damaged.
There are 2 options for this.
1: buy the hose from France and any ends that you need. Hose $40 fittings $93.00 each, shipping $70
2: buy new hose and ends from the US. the hose is different and the fittings are slightly different with the same threaded ends. They are not interchangeable. Cost of 2 new hoses $472.00
I'm buying the hose and 1 end fitting from France.
If anyone else wants to buy either hoses or fittings from France and add to my order please let me know by Thurs 25th by noon eastern time. The order will be shipping to me in Annapolis and i'll forward from here if you pay shipping to your destination.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai
Annapolis, MD


Re: Water maker Questions

Mark McGovern
 

Craig,

Your summation lines up perfectly with all of my reading on the subject of Reverse Osmosis.  The Mid-Chesapeake Bay area will be our cruising grounds for the next few years so my watermaker will only see brackish water for quite some time.  I had read in numerous places online that I would "damage my membrane" if I ran it in the Chesapeake but research from source data shows otherwise.  The Filmtec SW30 RO membrane used in our system is clearly NOT the ideal membrane for the Chesapeake Bay, but it does not seem that I will do any harm to it if I operate it at lower pressures like you mention.  For any other "geeks" interested in RO information here is a link to the 197 page technical manual from Dupont Filmtec, maker of the RO membrane:  https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/Dupont2.0/Products/water/literature/609-00071.pdf  Riveting reading for sure! ;)

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Shower spray handle

karkauai
 

Thanks Tom and Danke Elja.
Perfect!

Kent & Iris
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 26, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,

We just replaced our sprayers with this. Works great. Plug and play. Their specs talk about "Female:19mm/1/2PT”, and "Connects to universal G1/2 shower hoses”. 

Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay USA

On Jul 26, 2019, at 8:45 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243


Re: Shower spray handle

Thomas Peacock
 

Hi Kent,

We just replaced our sprayers with this. Works great. Plug and play. Their specs talk about "Female:19mm/1/2PT”, and "Connects to universal G1/2 shower hoses”. 

Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay USA

On Jul 26, 2019, at 8:45 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243


Re: Shower spray handle

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

This i instal last week 
Look for a horse in 2 m 

https://www.svb.de/de/bavaria-duschkopf-fuer-heckdusche.html

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 26.07.2019 um 15:45 schrieb karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...>:

hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243


Re: Shower spray handle

karkauai
 

hi Barry,
I’m needing to replace two shower handle sprayers, but can’t figure out what type/size threads are used to connect handle to hose.  Was the Kinetic sprayer you got equipped with the same  threads?  Plug-and-play?
Anybody know the thread size?
Source in the US?
Thanks,
Kent & Iris
Kristy
SM243


Re: Storm tactics

Mike Ondra
 

Thanks to all for sharing your experiences with storms. More tools for the tool bag. Seems like heaving to should work in most conditions, and the drogue may be the ultimate tactic.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

Chesapeake Bay

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 2:11 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

 

Great thread, Thanks all. 

Question re the JSD and attachment points. We have a JSD and sadly no reinforced rear cleats. What would be the best attachment points on our 54 for both strength and chafe? Also for steering?  We carry a good amount of amsteel of various lengths and widths for harness fashioning. (The JSD does come with a harness). I do have an idea but wondering if others have a solution. 

 

As always very appreciated!

 

Porter 

S/V Ibis

A54-152 Tahaa, FP

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:39 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.

I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent

S/V Kristy

SM 243


On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

 

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

 

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

 

Thanks,  

 

Dave Bruce 

sv Liesse

SN006, Gaeta, Italy

 

 

On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: 
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: 
main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

















 


Re: Storm tactics

Porter McRoberts
 

Great thread, Thanks all. 
Question re the JSD and attachment points. We have a JSD and sadly no reinforced rear cleats. What would be the best attachment points on our 54 for both strength and chafe? Also for steering?  We carry a good amount of amsteel of various lengths and widths for harness fashioning. (The JSD does come with a harness). I do have an idea but wondering if others have a solution. 

As always very appreciated!

Porter 
S/V Ibis
A54-152 Tahaa, FP

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:39 AM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.
I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD



















Re: Storm tactics

karkauai
 

Just now looking at that, Eric.  I was thinking/hoping that I could run the bridle thru blocks to the jib winches, but haven’t gotten far enough to know if that will work.
I have an arch that may complicate things even more.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 25, 2019, at 12:17 AM, davidcbruce57@... wrote:

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD