Date   

Re: Storm tactics

eric freedman
 

Bruce,

My stern cleats are super reinforced and are not stock stern cleats.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of davidcbruce57@...
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 12:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

 

Hi All,  

 

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

 

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

 

Thanks,  

 

Dave Bruce 

sv Liesse

SN006, Gaeta, Italy

 

 

On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: 
main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: 
main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD

















 


Watermaker looses pressure

CARINA HAMMARLUND
 

Hi,
We have a Dessalator Duo 100 onboard and have just changed all three membranes. After this it worked fine for a couple of weeks but lately the pressure vary - anyone know why and how to deal with the problem?
--
Carina
SV Ultimo
Amel 54 No 165


Re: Dyneema loop

Barry Connor
 

Hi Mohammad,

Hope your sailing is going well, we are now in Sardinia. Stopping at Antibes (Dessalator), Hyeres (Amel parts) soon. Had a very successful haul out in Monastir,  cleaned and checked the 2 year old copper coat job we did there and it is doing exactly as it should. Changed the C-drive seals and finally fitted the new rope cutter that I got from Alexandre. 
I do not have any Dyneema loops on any of my rigging. Can you send me a photo of where you use these?  Would be great if these can replace all my metal shackles. 

Best regards

Barry and Penny
"SV Lady Penelope II"
Amel 54. #17
Sardinia

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 10:40:14 PM GMT+1, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Wolfgang;

We just ordered about 7 of the loops from Amel.

Great quality dyneema with cover and perfect fit. I think it’s a good idea to help Amel when we can also. Happy with the purchase and quick shipment.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099



On Jul 24, 2019, at 10:38 AM, Wolfgang Weber via Groups.Io <webercardio@...> wrote:

Hello to the group,
I would like to renew the dyneema loops of the rigg.Before order at Amel, I would ask for any recommendations.
Our Amel is from 2011 , 20.000 sm.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 (Annapolis) back on boat 2nd of August


Re: Storm tactics

david bruce
 

Hi All,  

Very interesting thread.  Eric, the Ocean Navigator article did not specify, but for some reason I assumed you used the stock stern cleats to affix the JSD during your hurricane encounter, if so how did that work?, if not did you install chainplates as attachment points.   Short of thru bolted chainplates, could one reinforce the existing cleats to allow for their use with the JSD.

Tangentially, I am curious, as a relative novice Amel owner how best to 'de pressurize' the sails when in a seaway and building winds in order to reef without stressing the furling motors.  Is releasing sheets generally sufficient or is it necessary to head to wind, which would seem to make a boat vulnerable or at least quite uncomfortable to beam seas.    

Thanks,  

Dave Bruce 
sv Liesse
SN006, Gaeta, Italy


On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:18 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376


-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts.  Hope I never have to use it.  If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail.  We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go).  We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N).  We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind.  The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates.  It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this? 
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD



















Re: Storm tactics

eric freedman
 

Hi Kent,
Did you add the drogue attachment points that Jordan recommended ?
If not how are you going to attach it to your boat?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 8:56 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts. Hope I never have to use it. If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail. We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD









Re: Storm tactics

karkauai
 

Hi Danny,
I carry a Jordan Drogue for a huge sea and 60+kts. Hope I never have to use it. If on a lee shore, I guess would have to try tacking under engine and ATN GaleSail. We’re going to deploy the drogue and gale sail this fall and make sure we know how to use them and what they’ll do.

Does anybody know of a really good storm tactics hands-on class?

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM 243

On Jul 24, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD









FW: Panama Crime on the Caribe Side

Mark Erdos
 

I received this today from our insurance company:

 

WARNING NOTICE

We have been advised of a very unfortunate incident.  This being an acutely distressing armed robbery in Panama, in the Bay Bahia Nombre de Dios. 

We write to warn you NOT to visit this area, except in an emergency, until such time as the perpetrators have been apprehended. 

If you visit these areas it is essential that you please let us know.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: Mark Erdos [mailto:mcerdos@...]
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 5:51 PM
To: 'AmelYachtOwners@groups.io'
Subject: Panama Crime on the Caribe Side

 

Heads up to owners in the Panama area on the Caribbean side. There has been a serious rash of armed robberies between Shelter Bay Marina and the San Blas Islands. Linton Bay is especially volatile at this time. Several boats anchored in various bays were boarded by armed thieves. Details of the robberies can be found on CSSN https://safetyandsecuritynet.org/. At this point no arrest have been made and the robberies are expected to continue.

 

Please be extra vigilant if your plans include sailing in these waters anytime soon.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 


Re: Dyneema loop

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Wolfgang;

We just ordered about 7 of the loops from Amel.

Great quality dyneema with cover and perfect fit. I think it’s a good idea to help Amel when we can also. Happy with the purchase and quick shipment.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099



On Jul 24, 2019, at 10:38 AM, Wolfgang Weber via Groups.Io <webercardio@...> wrote:

Hello to the group,
I would like to renew the dyneema loops of the rigg.Before order at Amel, I would ask for any recommendations.
Our Amel is from 2011 , 20.000 sm.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 (Annapolis) back on boat 2nd of August


Re: Water maker Questions

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi All;

We have the 150 l/hr Dessalator. Martin Dee Jong at Dessalator has been our main go to person when we’ve had any issues with our Dessalator. He has always been extremely knowledgeable and helpful and his information has always been spot on. I believe he has the position of director now for Dessalator in a couple of countries.

According to Martin there is no advantage in running the system at low pressures. In fact he advised that it should always be run at max pressure in the green simply because we will produce more water without any downside.

He also advises that as long as the system in run regularly, at least once a week, there is no need for fresh water flush. For wintering he advised us to follow their system of sterilization for up to 6 months.

We have followed his advise with good results so far. We have about 470 hours on the water maker which is now 11 years old on the original membranes. We always get production rates of 150-180 l/hr depending mainly on the water temperature. Our TDS runs in the 250 range all the time. We do not use any water other than Dessalator water on board, so the water maker gets used at least every other when we are on board, which is about 5-6 months every year.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54#099

On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Ryan Meador via Groups.Io <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:

Hi Tom,

Great meeting you last week.  I believe we have the same watermaker you do (Iteration is hull 233).  We see almost exactly the same production rate that you do.  I believe we see similar TDS as well, but we do not have a meter; I think the folks in Martinique told me it was about 250 when they rebuilt it last winter.  We were instructed to run it at 55-60 bar, despite the green zone on the gauge being from 60-65 bar.  They said it shortens the membrane life to run it at higher pressure.

While we're on the subject, I saw this article just a few days ago about how the neighboring town of Cambridge, MA has a TDS of 469 in their public water supply!

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:34 PM Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill et al,
World Health Organization to the rescue; but anything <500 ppm is good.
"TDS is a measure of Total Dissolved Solids in Water which comprise of inorganic salts, principally calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, bicarbonates, chlorides and sulfates, and small amounts of organic matter that are dissolved in water. TDS in drinking-water originates from natural sources, sewage, urban runoff, and industrial wastewater. Concentrations of TDS in water vary considerably in different geological regions owing to differences in the solubility of minerals.

According to WHO report on Drinking water standards, NO health-based guideline value is proposed for TDS in Drinking Water which essentially means that human body can ingest any amount of TDS in water without any health impact. Now the question is …Why high TDS is considered bad in Drinking Water?

The simple reason is the palatability or taste! Yes, you heard it right. High levels of TDS in drinking-water may have a certain objectionable taste because of salts. The palatability of water with a TDS level of less than 600 mg/liter is generally considered to be good; drinking-water becomes significantly unpalatable at TDS levels greater than 1200 mg/liter. Also, TDS may be high because of certain chemicals which are harmful and hence purification is required to eradicate them. However, this is not a concern in naturally available water. Thus, we can drink the water of any TDS level if it is devoid of harmful pathogens, chemical, and other unacceptable impurities.Hence…high TDS does not lead to any health problem. The presence of high levels of TDS may also be objectionable because of excessive scaling in water pipes, heaters, boilers, and household appliances.

Alternatively, water with extremely low concentrations of TDS may also be unacceptable because of its flat, insipid taste.Most purification techniques such as filtration, membrane processing or sedimentation aim to eliminate the impurities that form high TDS. Water is treated or purified to maintain palatability as well as purity in terms of microbial and chemical composition. It has nothing to do with TDS or mineral content. Purifiers in the market with TDS modulator or a Mineral Booster are just for marketing promotion for naïve customers and do not have any rationale behind it.

To know more about TDS in drinking water, go through the following research published by WHO.WHO Guidelines for drinking-water quality -2008

http://www.who.int/water_sanitat...


New file uploaded to main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io

main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io group.

File: K90385.pdf

Uploaded By: Mark McGovern

Description:
Shaft brake caliper drawing and parts list for the shaft brake on 2004 Super Maramu Hull #440 Cara. The drawing came directly from the manufacturer Coremo Ocmea when I was trying to source replacement brake shoes (Part # Z50261). The tag on the caliper has "150105" stamped on it but the caliper part number is actually K90385.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://AmelYachtOwners.groups.io/g/main/files/K90385.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


Re: Storm tactics

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,
I agree with you. Done the same myself, both the reduction in sail as a windy thunderstorm approaches and the heaving to, although not for 48 hours. However 8 to 12 ft seas is one thing, oceanic monsters is another altogether and would need evaluation as to tactic. The ability to furl and unfurl sail rapidly is one of the many beauties of the Amel
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 24 July 2019 at 14:59 "karkauai via Groups.Io" <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD









Re: Water maker Questions

Gary Silver
 

Hi Tom and All:

A few notes on desalination of seawater and my experience with my Dessalator 160 l/hr over the last 18 years of use:
 
For the following reason I measure EC (electrical conductivity)  not TDS for measuring my product water;

"EC stands for Electrical Conductivity and is measured micro-siemens per centimeter. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids and is measured in PPM or parts per million. TDS is acquired by taking the EC value and performing a calculation to determine the TDS value. Because TDS is actually a calculation it is really only a guess at what the nutrient concentration is. On top of that, there are three different conversion factors to determine TDS and different manufacturers use different conversion factors. In other words you could test the same solution with two different meters and get two totally different readings. But the EC is read the same by all meters the only difference is the conversion factor."

I take this to mean the EC is a primary measurement whereas TDS is a secondary calculated value (based on a formula).  That said, TDS meters are probably "pretty close".  I love the quote from the WHO that shows that there isn't a hard and fast number for TDS, it is a range and various palates will taste water in different ways. 

My experience : Water makers love to be used.  Lack of use is probably the most common cause of membrane failure.  Frequent (daily or every other day) use will prolong their life.  

I have never quite understood why operation in brackish water is damaging but I have heard that opinion often enough to believe that it is so. 

Since I monitor EC continuously I can speak to the trends associated with water maker use: 

1. Upon startup of my 160l/hr Dessalator water maker, the EC will start about where it left off when it was shut down (usually about 400 microSeimens/cm), this is due to the last produced product water being at the EC sensor,
2.  Within seconds the ED will rise to over 2,000 microsiemens (max recording range of my EC monitor), I have speculated on why this rises (osmosis vs reverse-osmosis taking place within the membrane capsule during the shut down period)
3.  Then over a period of about 2 minutes it will gradually fall to about 600 mS, at which point I will start to "Save" the product water.  I have a manual "Save / Discard" switch and utilize that to determine when to save product water.
4.  Then EC will fall continuously during production (the longer the water maker runs the lower it goes).    
5.  The higher the pressure that I run the water maker (up to 65 Bar, top of the green), the lower the EC / better the EC.  At bottom of the green the EC will usually be about 50-100 microSiemens/cm higher than when run at the top of the green.  

You do no favors to your water maker or product water by running it below the green arc.  I routinely run my membranes at 65 bar and I am only only my 3rd set of membranes in 18 years (NOTE: I use my boat only 3 months out of the year and have a automatic timer that flushes the membranes with carbon block filtered product water for 2 minutes every 48 hrs when I am not aboard the boat, so my experience probably isn't typical for a cruising sailboat).

So many good questions around the water maker.   Can't speak to "cleaning" the members as I have never found the need to do that. 

One last point: don't use sodium metabisulate to pickle your water maker unless you absolutely have no other option.  If you do use it, only use it at the lowest possible effect concentration and for the shortest period of time possible.  It is corrosive and can damage metal parts in you water maker (hence the reason I have a fresh water flush system and haven't pickled in in 13 years).

All the best to my fellow Amel owners who, like me, are on a never ending journey of learning.

Gary S. Silver, M.D.
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000  Hull #335
On the hard at Puerto Del Rey Marina, Puerto Rico


Re: Water maker Questions

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Tom,

Great meeting you last week.  I believe we have the same watermaker you do (Iteration is hull 233).  We see almost exactly the same production rate that you do.  I believe we see similar TDS as well, but we do not have a meter; I think the folks in Martinique told me it was about 250 when they rebuilt it last winter.  We were instructed to run it at 55-60 bar, despite the green zone on the gauge being from 60-65 bar.  They said it shortens the membrane life to run it at higher pressure.

While we're on the subject, I saw this article just a few days ago about how the neighboring town of Cambridge, MA has a TDS of 469 in their public water supply!

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:34 PM Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill et al,
World Health Organization to the rescue; but anything <500 ppm is good.
"TDS is a measure of Total Dissolved Solids in Water which comprise of inorganic salts, principally calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, bicarbonates, chlorides and sulfates, and small amounts of organic matter that are dissolved in water. TDS in drinking-water originates from natural sources, sewage, urban runoff, and industrial wastewater. Concentrations of TDS in water vary considerably in different geological regions owing to differences in the solubility of minerals.

According to WHO report on Drinking water standards, NO health-based guideline value is proposed for TDS in Drinking Water which essentially means that human body can ingest any amount of TDS in water without any health impact. Now the question is …Why high TDS is considered bad in Drinking Water?

The simple reason is the palatability or taste! Yes, you heard it right. High levels of TDS in drinking-water may have a certain objectionable taste because of salts. The palatability of water with a TDS level of less than 600 mg/liter is generally considered to be good; drinking-water becomes significantly unpalatable at TDS levels greater than 1200 mg/liter. Also, TDS may be high because of certain chemicals which are harmful and hence purification is required to eradicate them. However, this is not a concern in naturally available water. Thus, we can drink the water of any TDS level if it is devoid of harmful pathogens, chemical, and other unacceptable impurities.Hence…high TDS does not lead to any health problem. The presence of high levels of TDS may also be objectionable because of excessive scaling in water pipes, heaters, boilers, and household appliances.

Alternatively, water with extremely low concentrations of TDS may also be unacceptable because of its flat, insipid taste.Most purification techniques such as filtration, membrane processing or sedimentation aim to eliminate the impurities that form high TDS. Water is treated or purified to maintain palatability as well as purity in terms of microbial and chemical composition. It has nothing to do with TDS or mineral content. Purifiers in the market with TDS modulator or a Mineral Booster are just for marketing promotion for naïve customers and do not have any rationale behind it.

To know more about TDS in drinking water, go through the following research published by WHO.WHO Guidelines for drinking-water quality -2008

http://www.who.int/water_sanitat...


Re: Dyneema loop

Wolfgang Weber
 

Thank you very much Wolfgang Weber SY Elise 
Great Video, I will try it


Re: Dyneema loop

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

Cheaper to make them your self. Super easy task.

https://youtu.be/j5CZzAo0IxE

Hälsningar/Regards/Cumprementos
Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

24 juli 2019 kl. 09:38 skrev Wolfgang Weber via Groups.Io <webercardio@...>:

Hello to the group,
I would like to renew the dyneema loops of the rigg.Before order at Amel, I would ask for any recommendations.
Our Amel is from 2011 , 20.000 sm.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 (Annapolis) back on boat 2nd of August


Dyneema loop

Wolfgang Weber
 

Hello to the group,
I would like to renew the dyneema loops of the rigg.Before order at Amel, I would ask for any recommendations.
Our Amel is from 2011 , 20.000 sm.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 #162 (Annapolis) back on boat 2nd of August


Re: Storm tactics

James Alton
 

Mike,

    One thing that might be helpful is to know that if the wind is too strong to motor directly upwind that you can still make progress to windward without stressing your engine.  You can do this without using any sails by tacking or if you cannot easily bring the bow through the wind by jibing your way to windward.  Set your engine to a comfortable power level and then find an angle to the wind where your boat speed is high enough for the keel to effeciently generate lift and you will have almost no leeway.  I once had to use this technique in winds of 50 plus knots on a non Amel boat I owned previously to gain distance to windward to enter an inlet during a crazy strong Northeaster.  There was not nearly enough power available to bring the bow through but jibing was easy and despite some big seas we gained the distance to windward that we needed to safely enter the inlet.

Best,
James
SV Sueno
Mara u #220



Sent from Samsung tablet.

-------- Original message --------
From: "ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io" <ngtnewington@...>
Date: 7/24/19 7:14 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

Mike,
Heave to under small amount of mizzen or main and scrap of jib backwinded. Lash helm such that the boat sits at about 50 degrees from the wind. She should for-reach at about 2-5 knots.
Then have a cup of tea, relax and assess. You will be amazed at how comfy this is. You should practice the tactic in 25 kn.
I have used this tactic in many situations on various boats. On one occasion for 48 hours on passage to New Zealand from Tonga in 1991.
I also use it when I want to slow down for a day light entry and sometimes if it is rough to just make a good meal and take it easy.

In general I believe one should always keep sailing until the wind really gets out of hand. That is until you can no longer heave to, I mean that the boat can not set any sail at all. At which point there are various options:
1. Running with it under bare poles. This works but you need sea room and if it is in generally the right direction makes sense. If not then:
a. Jordan series rogue
b. Lie with no sails and leave the boat to it. This is pretty horrible and can be dangerous in big seas but for example after the Fastnet race of 1979 there were many abandoned boats floating undamaged when the storm passed.
Nick
Amelia AML 54-019 in Preveza Greece.
> On 24 Jul 2019, at 05:28, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra@...> wrote:
>
> During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused  not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
> Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms.  Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
> Mike Ondra
> Aletes SM 240
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Storm tactics

ngtnewington Newington
 

Mike,
Heave to under small amount of mizzen or main and scrap of jib backwinded. Lash helm such that the boat sits at about 50 degrees from the wind. She should for-reach at about 2-5 knots.
Then have a cup of tea, relax and assess. You will be amazed at how comfy this is. You should practice the tactic in 25 kn.
I have used this tactic in many situations on various boats. On one occasion for 48 hours on passage to New Zealand from Tonga in 1991.
I also use it when I want to slow down for a day light entry and sometimes if it is rough to just make a good meal and take it easy.

In general I believe one should always keep sailing until the wind really gets out of hand. That is until you can no longer heave to, I mean that the boat can not set any sail at all. At which point there are various options:
1. Running with it under bare poles. This works but you need sea room and if it is in generally the right direction makes sense. If not then:
a. Jordan series rogue
b. Lie with no sails and leave the boat to it. This is pretty horrible and can be dangerous in big seas but for example after the Fastnet race of 1979 there were many abandoned boats floating undamaged when the storm passed.
Nick
Amelia AML 54-019 in Preveza Greece.

On 24 Jul 2019, at 05:28, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD





Re: Storm tactics

eric freedman
 

I don't leave home without the Ace Sailmakers Jordan series drogue.

We were in a Hurricane for 36 hours.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

http://www.oceannavigator.com/March-April-2011/Prepare-for-survival-conditions/

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:29 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Storm tactics

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD


Re: Storm tactics

karkauai
 

Hi Mike,

We got caught in a slow moving front last spring with 35-40kts with gusts over 45 from the N (where we wanted to go). We didn’t want to run S with the storm and lose a lot of ground, and tacking into 8-12 ft seas didn’t seem like much fun (and probably wouldn’t have gotten us very far N). We hove to for almost 48 hours with a small handkerchief of jib and about 1/2 of the mizzen, drifting directly downwind. The slick we created to windward calmed any breakers (only one small breaker slapped the boat in all that time), the motion was benign, and we lost only 50 miles in two days.

In thunderstorms with high winds, I reduce sail as the storm approaches, and if there is room, I keep the wind on the aft quarter until it abates. It often changes direction continuously as the storm passes, it can take an hour or more until the prevailing winds return.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Mike Ondra via Groups.Io <mdondra=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

During our recent passage from Boston to the Chesapeake Bay we experienced two severe thunderstorms. In one winds reached 40 kn sustained with gusts to 55 kn for about 10 minutes at the severest. Fortunately the storms were relatively short duration and the seas were confused not having had a chance to organize and build significantly. Our tactic was to motor into the wind with bare poles. At 40+ knots even at full throttle we could barely maintain rudder control as we made way at around 2+/- knots: The wind would push the bow 20 to 30° off course before recovery under autopilot. We did not try hand steering as the auto pilot was doing an OK job in general. It’s seems that in any greater amount of wind or with a more significantly organized sea this tactic would have put us broadside to the wind and waves and then who knows what?
Drouges and see anchors make a lot of sense for longer duration storms. Thoughts on storm tactics for short duration events such as this?
Mike Ondra
Aletes SM 240
Rock Hall, MD