Date   

Re: The two "sticks" on the genoa top swivel

 

You should replace them and find rubber hose to fit over the ends. 

This was a smart, cheap, reliable innovation from Henri Amel that prevents twisting issues, especially when you least want them. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Yacht School - Supporting Amel Owners
www.YachtSchool.us
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:04 PM SV Trilogy <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:
Hi everyone,

How critical are the 2 sticks/poles (perhaps called "cornes" in French?) that are bolted onto the top swivel of the genoa furling assembly?

Our SM was sold to us with just one of these installed on the starboard side. All it seems to do is occasionally make contact with the mast - gouging the aluminum and removing paint - and/or interfere with the second halyard. Wondering if it can just be removed or if we should source and install the second one on the port side?

Wouldn't the genoa halyard tension be enough to keep the top swivel in it's proper orientation?

With both sticks installed, are they supposed to make any contact with the mast or rigging? If not, what is their purpose? Only during extreme forces/emergency? 

I don't see anything like these on other boats (a most common thing with Amel design) so any insight or information is welcomed.

Thanks,
Mike & Hannah
SV Trilogy, SM#23
Panama


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

eric freedman
 

Hi Gary,

When I had to drive out the shaft with a sledge hammer I found that as soon as the key cleared the keyway the shaft slid out easily. I believe the key is the only thing that needs to be adjusted. I remove the shaft 4 times a year and lubricate it with high temp. stainless Neva-Seez and have had no further problem in over 10 years.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gary Silver via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 12:00 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Main Outhaul early SM 2K

 

Hi Kent:

Sorry to hear of your difficulties removing the outhaul shaft.  Also interesting to see the different mounting methods used by Amel over the various SN boats.  I don't have any specific answers to getting the shaft out unless it would be to use dry ice to cool the shaft and/or applying heat to the gearbox shaft.  Like so many things this is an all hands on deck situation so penetrating oil, heat, cold, vibration, and pressure may all be needed.

Note that there is no seal between the outhaul shaft (male) and the gearbox shaft (female) into which the outhaul shaft inserts.  The only seal here is the lip seal that is press fit into the upper cover (and lower cover) of the gearbox and provides a seal to the gearbox (female) shaft.  I have found that removing the outhaul shaft once yearly and lubing it has always yielded easy removal, not sure why your's is stuck after so little calendar time.  I do rinse thoroughly the areas of the outhaul and furling gearboxes with fresh water after every sail and I do slather an unsightly amount of grease around the upper surface of the shaft/shaft interface but it sound like you do the same. Eric suggestion to remove a couple of thousandths from the keyway seams reasonable, perhaps an easier thing would be to remove a couple of thousandths of an inch from the shaft itself (larger bearing area and hence a larger "sticking" area). 

Wish you luck,

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey - Puerto Rico


Re: Electric Motor for SM main outhaul/furler

eric freedman
 

Hi David,
Would you please supply the information on the tag of the new
motor.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 10:01 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Electric Motor for SM main outhaul/furler

Greetings,

AMEL France just filled an order for a spare electric motor and gearbox for the SM Main Outhaul/Furler.

The electric motor is a little different to what I expected. Please see the silver motor in the photos attached (the one with the small gauge red and black wires). What I was expecting to see was a motor as per SM#335, which is what I have on Perigee.

Does anyone know if the silver unit as supplied is a 'drop-in' replacement? Or do I need to re-order and obtain the 'old style"?

(I am writing to Maude but, being the weekend, thought it quicker to check with the forum.)

Thanks in anticipation.

David
SM#396/Perigee
Panama, almost prepped for French Polynesia


Re: Diesel Class

Mark Erdos
 

Kent,

 

If you plan to take Kristy there, you can stay in the city mooring field: 38°58'33.7"N 76°28'58.6"W This will be a lot cheaper alternative to the very expensive marinas in the area. It is first come first served so get there a few days before the school starts to get an outer buoy (for larger vessels). You will not have trouble getting a mooring on Mondays – Thursdays. Weekends can be iffy.

 

Use the public dinghy docks. It is a short walk to the school. Each of the numbered streets on the Eastport peninsular have free public dinghy docks. There is one located at the south end of 6th street. If it is blowing hard you can use the north end of 4th and walk.

 

You will find the school very educational and well worth the money.

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - San Blas Islands, Panama

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 10:48 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Diesel Class

 

AHi again everyone,
It looks like a private class isn’t going to happen.  I’d recommend looking at either the Mack Boring 2-day marine diesel owner’s class or the Annapolis School of Seamanship classes which are 2 day Basic Diesel and 2-day Level II Diesel class which goes more into troubleshooting.  Iris and I are signing up for the School of Seamanship classes this Summer.
Sorry I couldn’t get a private Amel class put together, but finding the facility, engines, instructors, and timing just didn’t seem to work.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


The two "sticks" on the genoa top swivel

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi everyone,

How critical are the 2 sticks/poles (perhaps called "cornes" in French?) that are bolted onto the top swivel of the genoa furling assembly?

Our SM was sold to us with just one of these installed on the starboard side. All it seems to do is occasionally make contact with the mast - gouging the aluminum and removing paint - and/or interfere with the second halyard. Wondering if it can just be removed or if we should source and install the second one on the port side?

Wouldn't the genoa halyard tension be enough to keep the top swivel in it's proper orientation?

With both sticks installed, are they supposed to make any contact with the mast or rigging? If not, what is their purpose? Only during extreme forces/emergency? 

I don't see anything like these on other boats (a most common thing with Amel design) so any insight or information is welcomed.

Thanks,
Mike & Hannah
SV Trilogy, SM#23
Panama


Re: Electric Motor for SM main outhaul/furler

David Vogel
 

Hi Gary,

 

Thanks for your response.  The silver motor is by “Nidec”, sub-titled LEROY-SOMER (L-S is part of the NIDEC group, apparently).

 

Yes, further research reveals that the motors I have installed on PERIGEE/SM#396 are identified as model number MBT86M.  (The MBT denotes permanent magnets, the “86” is the diameter of the motor casing in mm, the “M” is the length of the motor casing, either S|M|L.)

 

SPECS of the motor as shipped -> Type: MBT82M | 24V/27A/450W | 3100rpm (I noted this difference in revs as well, as this would seem to make it out of sync with the other motor, = more blipping the toggle switches).  On the 82 as received, there are no ports enabling direct access to the brushes, for servicing.

 

Another difference is the ‘Service Code”; the ‘as installed’ unit, model 86, the service code is S2 10mn; the one supplied (mode 82), the service code is S2 5mn; I haven’t yet cracked the code on what the difference means, excepting the obvious regarding lack of service ports.

 

It appears that I should have the MBT86M, not the 82M.  I think that perhaps the thinner 82-model is intended for an A54 (and maybe even a later model SM than #396).

 

When I get a response from Maud, then I’ll post an update.  But in the interim, if anyone else can chime in, please do.

 

Best,

 

David

SM#396/Perigee

Panama


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

Gary Silver
 

Hi Kent:

Sorry to hear of your difficulties removing the outhaul shaft.  Also interesting to see the different mounting methods used by Amel over the various SN boats.  I don't have any specific answers to getting the shaft out unless it would be to use dry ice to cool the shaft and/or applying heat to the gearbox shaft.  Like so many things this is an all hands on deck situation so penetrating oil, heat, cold, vibration, and pressure may all be needed.

Note that there is no seal between the outhaul shaft (male) and the gearbox shaft (female) into which the outhaul shaft inserts.  The only seal here is the lip seal that is press fit into the upper cover (and lower cover) of the gearbox and provides a seal to the gearbox (female) shaft.  I have found that removing the outhaul shaft once yearly and lubing it has always yielded easy removal, not sure why your's is stuck after so little calendar time.  I do rinse thoroughly the areas of the outhaul and furling gearboxes with fresh water after every sail and I do slather an unsightly amount of grease around the upper surface of the shaft/shaft interface but it sound like you do the same. Eric suggestion to remove a couple of thousandths from the keyway seams reasonable, perhaps an easier thing would be to remove a couple of thousandths of an inch from the shaft itself (larger bearing area and hence a larger "sticking" area). 

Wish you luck,

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey - Puerto Rico


Re: Electric Motor for SM main outhaul/furler

Gary Silver
 

Hi David:

It appears that the specifications are very close to the LeRoy Somer motor, however, it seems to be smaller in diameter so some accommodation for mounting would be necessary.  Also, the wiring will need to be adapted.  Does the new motor have brush covers to allow servicing the brushes?  Does the RPM say 3,100 rpm?  Not that a 100 RPM difference would be of any significance.

Gary S Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335


Re: Diesel Class

karkauai
 

AHi again everyone,
It looks like a private class isn’t going to happen.  I’d recommend looking at either the Mack Boring 2-day marine diesel owner’s class or the Annapolis School of Seamanship classes which are 2 day Basic Diesel and 2-day Level II Diesel class which goes more into troubleshooting.  Iris and I are signing up for the School of Seamanship classes this Summer.
Sorry I couldn’t get a private Amel class put together, but finding the facility, engines, instructors, and timing just didn’t seem to work.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Electric Motor for SM main outhaul/furler

David Vogel
 

Greetings,

AMEL France just filled an order for a spare electric motor and gearbox for the SM Main Outhaul/Furler.

The electric motor is a little different to what I expected. Please see the silver motor in the photos attached (the one with the small gauge red and black wires). What I was expecting to see was a motor as per SM#335, which is what I have on Perigee.

Does anyone know if the silver unit as supplied is a 'drop-in' replacement? Or do I need to re-order and obtain the 'old style"?

(I am writing to Maude but, being the weekend, thought it quicker to check with the forum.)

Thanks in anticipation.

David
SM#396/Perigee
Panama, almost prepped for French Polynesia


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

karkauai
 

Thanks again, Eric and John. I’ve been hearing about all the problems with removing the Outhaul shaft, and now have the same problem. Others have suggested it was because the shaft seal is vertical and prone to water intrusion. When mine was removed with great difficulty, I found the shaft had rusted and salt was everywhere. That was about two years after I had rebuilt the previous one that had lasted many years. I had been putting silicone grease on the upper seal every few months for those two years. Now after only six months with a new gearbox, it’s stuck again, despite NeverSieze and grease on the outside of the seal every 2 months.

I need to find a better way...

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

John Clark
 

Kent,
   Annie SM 37 has the same arrangement, though with bonfig gears.  I disassembled mine a couple of years ago but did not have any issues so can't help you there, just wanted to let you know that the arrangement is OEM.

Regards,. John
SV Annie
SM 37
Brunswick GA

On Fri, May 10, 2019, 5:33 PM karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all,
I had my masts and booms painted last Fall, and had a helluva time getting the outhaul shaft out.  The yard ended up breaking the cover plate of the gearbox, so I bought a new gearbox and motor from Amel (they wouldn’t sell me a new cover plate). I asked that they grease the shaft well with NeverSeize, and they said they did.  The bracket isn’t like the one pictured here, just two tabs welded to the boom, with a black plastic connector that bolts to the gearbox, and in turn bolts to the tabs on the boom.  After a few months I noticed the motor and gearbox moving when furling the main, and discovered the forward bolt holding the black plastic part to the tab on the boom was almost completely out.  I screwed it back in, but the black plastic part has stripped threads and it won’t hold.


Now, 6 months after installing the new gearbox and motor, I want to replace the black plastic connector, but I can’t get the shaft to budge.  I’ve tried tapping on a bolt in the bottom of the shaft while putting wedges between the boom and black plastic.  With seals in place, I’m not confident any PB Blaster would make its way down the shaft.  The way it’s attached to the boom doesn’t allow for a puller (pusher in this case) to fit between the gearbox and the boom.  It’s only about 1/8” with the plastic part down as far as it will go.  See pic below.

Have you seen anyone remove the shaft with this installment configuration?  Some special tool that will work?  I hate to put something across the boom with the new paint job.

Thanks for any ideas.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Re: Toe pulley

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Alan,

Do you have an Idea of the price of the Stainless pulleys ?

Would it be possible to buy this ?

Merci

Jean Luc


Le 11/05/2019 à 09:35, Alan Leslie a écrit :
Jean-Luc,
I have seen the same issue today....it doesn't hold, even though I tested at the dock, with water and re-tensioning, all seemed OK.
I already ordered a set of stainless pulleys from Mark McGovern which i believe have arrived already.
next visit to Elyse will see them installed.
Best
Alan 
Elyse SM437

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


Re: Toe pulley

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Hello Alan,

I use dyneeman (from AMEL),

For 6 month ago I tensioned It very strong .... it work to 30 kn wind ... but after 6 month it is not able to maintain 100kg tension ....

I thing we must absolutely ad some cavils ....

JL MERTZ on Cottonbay



Le 09/05/2019 à 11:19, Alan Leslie a écrit :
Jean Luc,

Are you using Vectran ?..and have you retensioned it after some time and getting wet ?
I have had success so far, but no really tough wind yet to do a good test.

Best
ALAN
Elyse SM437

Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

eric freedman
 

Hi Kent,

I grease the gearboxes 4 times a year and have not had a problem with water.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 12:16 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Main Outhaul early SM 2K

 

Hi Eric, I read that in one of your earlier posts.  I’ll definitely do that.

 

Has anyone come up with a good way to keep water from getting into the gearbox from above?  I remember someone posting about a soda bottle cut off and placed above the gearbox with the shaft coming through the bottle was that you José?  How has that worked?  I’ve been greasing the upper shaft seal, but wonder if that’s really doing anything.

 

Thanks

Kent

SM 243

Kristy

Kent Robertson

S/V Kristy

USA cell: 828-234-6819


On May 11, 2019, at 9:57 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,

When you finally get the shaft. I would suggest you take a few thousands of an inch off the keyway, both in height and width.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2019 3:31 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Main Outhaul early SM 2K

 

Kent,
I have never seen an arrangement like that on the boom of a Super Maramu.
The original metal frame with 4 bolts through it to the gearbox is necessary to counter act the torque produced by the motor gearbox combination, especially when you are tightening the outhaul to flatten the foot of the main, plastic doesn't make it.
Sorry, but I would recommend that the boom be returned to the original configuration with the complete metal frame.
WRT to getting the shaft out ...that's a common problem, because of the salt water ingress through the top gearbox seal.
Maybe take the boom off and take it to an engineering shop that can press it out, and then clean off the shaft so it fits easily and coat it with Never Seize when reinstalling it.
BUT I really think you need to have that gearbox support rebuilt as per the original.
In any event your new paint will need redoing. 
Sorry
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

karkauai
 

Hi Eric, I read that in one of your earlier posts.  I’ll definitely do that.

Has anyone come up with a good way to keep water from getting into the gearbox from above?  I remember someone posting about a soda bottle cut off and placed above the gearbox with the shaft coming through the bottle was that you José?  How has that worked?  I’ve been greasing the upper shaft seal, but wonder if that’s really doing anything.

Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 11, 2019, at 9:57 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Kent,

When you finally get the shaft. I would suggest you take a few thousands of an inch off the keyway, both in height and width.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2019 3:31 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Main Outhaul early SM 2K

 

Kent,
I have never seen an arrangement like that on the boom of a Super Maramu.
The original metal frame with 4 bolts through it to the gearbox is necessary to counter act the torque produced by the motor gearbox combination, especially when you are tightening the outhaul to flatten the foot of the main, plastic doesn't make it.
Sorry, but I would recommend that the boom be returned to the original configuration with the complete metal frame.
WRT to getting the shaft out ...that's a common problem, because of the salt water ingress through the top gearbox seal.
Maybe take the boom off and take it to an engineering shop that can press it out, and then clean off the shaft so it fits easily and coat it with Never Seize when reinstalling it.
BUT I really think you need to have that gearbox support rebuilt as per the original.
In any event your new paint will need redoing. 
Sorry
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

eric freedman
 

Hi Kent,

When you finally get the shaft. I would suggest you take a few thousands of an inch off the keyway, both in height and width.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2019 3:31 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Main Outhaul early SM 2K

 

Kent,
I have never seen an arrangement like that on the boom of a Super Maramu.
The original metal frame with 4 bolts through it to the gearbox is necessary to counter act the torque produced by the motor gearbox combination, especially when you are tightening the outhaul to flatten the foot of the main, plastic doesn't make it.
Sorry, but I would recommend that the boom be returned to the original configuration with the complete metal frame.
WRT to getting the shaft out ...that's a common problem, because of the salt water ingress through the top gearbox seal.
Maybe take the boom off and take it to an engineering shop that can press it out, and then clean off the shaft so it fits easily and coat it with Never Seize when reinstalling it.
BUT I really think you need to have that gearbox support rebuilt as per the original.
In any event your new paint will need redoing. 
Sorry
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

karkauai
 

I don’t have stripped threads...yet.  Not sure what I’d do with a helicoil???
Kent

On May 11, 2019, at 6:58 PM, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Thank you all who responded.  I’m thinking of fashioning a “pusher” tool that would have plates with holes in them.  The upper plate would fit over the line handler on top of the boom.  The lower plate would hold a large nut welded over the hole, under the gearbox.  The plates would be held in place, connected by 4 long bolts and separated from the new paint job by heavy hard-rubber sheeting.  A bolt would screw up through the nut and press the shaft out from below.
What is the downside to this cockamamie idea?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 11, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Kent, As always, many ways to skin a cat, and the heli coil is a great suggestion, although a new block could easily be made. Taking the boom to a machine shop with a press will certainly work and save the paint job if they carefully block it with wood and cloth before pressing. Your mounting configuration with the two aluminum tangs is identical to mine and, I'm sure, was original; perhaps Amel changed that design to a metal frame somewhere along the way (Alan's hull #437 is much later in the production run, I think), but yours will easily get you around the world next year, or at least to the South Pacific, and then, who cares?
Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Main Outhaul early SM 2K

karkauai
 

Thank you all who responded.  I’m thinking of fashioning a “pusher” tool that would have plates with holes in them.  The upper plate would fit over the line handler on top of the boom.  The lower plate would hold a large nut welded over the hole, under the gearbox.  The plates would be held in place, connected by 4 long bolts and separated from the new paint job by heavy hard-rubber sheeting.  A bolt would screw up through the nut and press the shaft out from below.
What is the downside to this cockamamie idea?

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On May 11, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Kent, As always, many ways to skin a cat, and the heli coil is a great suggestion, although a new block could easily be made. Taking the boom to a machine shop with a press will certainly work and save the paint job if they carefully block it with wood and cloth before pressing. Your mounting configuration with the two aluminum tangs is identical to mine and, I'm sure, was original; perhaps Amel changed that design to a metal frame somewhere along the way (Alan's hull #437 is much later in the production run, I think), but yours will easily get you around the world next year, or at least to the South Pacific, and then, who cares?
Cheers, Craig SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Onan exhaust

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hello fellow Amel owners,
I was surprised to see a salt water drip, actually quite a big drip from the aft end of my Onan generator. With only 80 hours on it!
There is a small pin hole on the weld but looking down the tube it looks like it was made from two tubes welded together not one tube with the plate welded onto it.
This is poor after only 80 hrs running and whenever I leave the boat the gender is run on freshwater for a few minutes.
Easily fixed as I had a spare tube salvaged from the old generator.

Nick
Amelia (AML-54 -019)
Gibraltar after lovely gentle passage from Madeira