Date   

Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

Thanks Pat,

Let's wait to see how many people are interested in purchasing new Rub Rails.  I just had my solid Rub Rails painted with Gel Coat, and the outside hull from the waterline to the rub rails was also sprayed with new Gel Coat.   The work also included painting stripe just over the waterline with Red Gel Coat.  When Aquarius splashes in December she will be like new from the rub rails to the bottom of the keel.  The new white Rub Rails are a must.  :)

Each person should chip in the $54, and we can donate these funds to the Amel site.   Let's see if anyone else is interested.
                                                                                                          


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Courtney Gorman
 

Yes it’s heavier but as 60 year old no problem to handle 


On May 29, 2021, at 7:17 PM, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:


I get the impression the 54 pole is heavier than a pair of SM poles? Is that the case? Is it over engineered? I would have thought a lighter pole might be a solution. Rather break a pole than the mast.



--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Porter McRoberts
 

Downwind the fore sails are the power. 
We commonly also fly the Mizzen in lighter winds prevented out. Adds a knot and unless you’re DDW doesn’t steal wind from the Genoa. Once everything is prevented and poled the main then can be used to minimize roll. The problem with the main is overlap of the Genoa when on the same side.   But once the wind moves up from 150, hold on, you’re in the sweet zone. The boat takes off with all sails to keep. 

I’m sure some could criticize the following: we commonly use the main pulling it tight, prevented pointing right into the wind or just off to the side. It flogs but very minimally if tight and dramatically reduces roll. It’s then easy to feather the main in and out as required to reduce roll. It also contributes the top end to speed, so as we creep up into the 8s or 8s putting the main away de powers the situation greatly and you’re back in control with minimal thrash.   Getting the topping lift just right is critical as you want all of the sail as equally tensioned as possible to prevent unequal loading.   It looks weird.  But the crew loves a stable ride. 


Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS a54-152
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On May 30, 2021, at 10:50 AM, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:

Considering the problems mentioned above what sail configurations do you typically utilize in the 54s downwind sailing?


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Paul Harries
 

I get the impression the 54 pole is heavier than a pair of SM poles? Is that the case? Is it over engineered? I would have thought a lighter pole might be a solution. Rather break a pole than the mast.



--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Paul,

If I'm not mistaken Amel sold the double foresail as a tradewind sailing solution. Meaning you have days in a row of just downwind sailing. In this case the effort of setting up the whole system makes sense.
For "normal" downwind sailing the gennaker is most applicable, even if that means the occasional jibe to stay off the straight downwind course (also helps with rolling). For stronger winds the genua comes into play but that means the whisker pole needs to come out (only one at that point) with all the wrestling associated with it. The point I noticed is that the genua, when made form Hydranet (standard sailcloth that Amel used) has problems with light winds as the cloth is very heavy.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Paul Harries
 

Considering the problems mentioned above what sail configurations do you typically utilize in the 54s downwind sailing?


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Re: Velox plus

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Sorry Pat,

PropSpeed works well for me too

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera SM007. 


On 30/05/2021, at 9:26 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> wrote:

Several years ago I applied Velox to my prop and did not have good luck with it. Last time I put my boat in the water, I used prop speed and it worked out pretty well . I am ready to paint my prop again, and I have almost a full can of Velox left ,whereas I would need to spend almost $300. for prop speed. So my question is,has anyone had good results using Velox ? Is there something else that has worked well? 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Velox plus

Patrick McAneny
 

Several years ago I applied Velox to my prop and did not have good luck with it. Last time I put my boat in the water, I used prop speed and it worked out pretty well . I am ready to paint my prop again, and I have almost a full can of Velox left ,whereas I would need to spend almost $300. for prop speed. So my question is,has anyone had good results using Velox ? Is there something else that has worked well? 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

svcharisma
 

I'm curious if this is the same profile as my Mango built in 86.  Do you have photos or a section of the rub rail?  What year was your Maramu built?

Alan
Mango #62



Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Porter McRoberts
 

There are many ways to use the single pole system. And nuances which make it work well or poorly on the 54. It is indeed a pig to set. To do it alone you need relatively calm seas.  It is heavy and that’s the main issue, the mass produces significant tortional resistance to the axial movement of the ship. This loads the guys, and their attachment points significantly: usually the cleats. Using 4 down guys helps. I would also re-rig with dynamic lines as opposed to the very unforgiving dynema lines which come standard, reducing the jerks and high momentary loads of rolling. 

However, once set, past the drama, the pole works well. Getting the angle right is critical for the shape of the Genoa, but too low and you risk dipping the tip in the ocean on a big roll.   Even with a gybe the sail does not collapse. We can sail pole set to wind up to about 150 degrees.  If you’re feeling lucky, you can set the pole to wind and then an asymmetric spinnaker on the Lee side. You go really fast in light winds. 

The problem comes with fickle winds from the stern. Past that 150 degrees the sail cavitates and now you’re limited to a degree to reset the sail on the opposite side, the non pole side. Good to have a little extra length in the Genoa sheet. 

Commonly that happens at night. In the rain. While your crew is asleep.   So you change the boat angle to accommodate the wind, or turn on the motor, or suit up and go on deck in dangerous conditions.  But this is the case with any single pole setup. 

I suspect the dual pole gives a wider angle of potential sailing relative to those deep wind angles. I’m not unhappy with the single pole setup. At 50 in pretty good shape I deal with it. But it might be different at 65. Hopefully I have the chance to know!  





Porter McRoberts 
S/V IBIS A54-152
SavuSavu 
WhatsApp:+1 754 265 2206
Www.fouribis.net

On May 29, 2021, at 10:56 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:



Our 54 has the twin headsail downwind option. It has the custom forestay foil with three grooves and the swivel with the latching system. We have two whisker poles which are huge and heavy. One is mounted at the mast and the second one is on deck. They are a pig to handle.
They work differently compared to the Super Maramu as they are attached to the base of the mast when in operation and one-piece. The reason for this is that the rigging is different with swept-back spreaders and a different stay set up.
I think it works as well as on the Super Maramu but I have not used in in anger yet. We also have a gennaker on a top-down furler. It all was part of the boat when we bought her.
Setting up the whisker-pole is quite the effort as you need to attach a lot of lines at the tip of the pole being in front of the forestay at that moment. The weight and size of the pole makes it intimidating. I had a look at replacing the aluminum tubes with carbon fibre but found that intimidating as well, on financial level...
Once you manage to set up the poles it works pretty easy and you can furl both sails together.

Using the staysail is easy, You just need to use the running back-stays in high wind situations. As the cars for the sheets are movable you can also furl this sail to a smaller area, removing the need for a storm-jib. At least that is my opinion.

I don’t think the is a significant difference in the rolling motion for the 54 compared to the SM. Although the underwatership is a bit more rounded, it also has a bit more stability aft because of the wider hull at that point.  I guess is these factors cancel each other out in this respect.
That does not mean the rolling motion cannot be annoying at times on a 54. I fell almost out of bed once when anchored at Guadeloupe. I’m afraid that is one of the perks of owning a monohull. 


Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Event: ZOOM Meeting with Bill Rouse Presenting what he offers Amel Owners and Amel Buyers - 06/05/2021 #cal-reminder

main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Reminder: ZOOM Meeting with Bill Rouse Presenting what he offers Amel Owners and Amel Buyers

When:
06/05/2021
20:00 to 21:00
(UTC+00:00) Etc/GMT

Where:
Galveston, TX

Organizer: Bill Rouse brouse@... +18323806969

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Description:

Note Date Change: As most of you know Tilo Peters, a group member does an amazing job hosting our zoom meetings. He had a conflict with 25 May. Our meeting date has changed to 5 June. I hope that this does not conflict with any attendees' schedules.

 

This ZOOM Meeting will be presented by me, Bill Rouse. This meeting will be for Group Members interested in buying an Amel and Amel Owners wanting more information about their Amels. I will have a special gift for all of those attending the meeting:

I will review all of the things that I offer Amel Buyers and Amel Owners including: 

·       The Amel Book

·       Pre-Purchase Consulting

·       Training Courses

·       24/7 Support

·       The Online Amel Book 

All those that RSVP and attend will receive 30 days of free access to my new Online Amel Book. To receive this, you must RSVP regardless of whether you will attend via Zoom or YouTube. Access instructions and your password to the Online Amel Book will be emailed to each RSVP’d member after the meeting is completed. Access to the Online Amel Book is timely as many of you will be returning to sailing in the coming months. Also, included with access to the Online Amel Book is 30 days of free access to Amel Book Supplements, which if printed would be 20,000 pages. 


Time: June 05, 2021 20:00 GMT

Join Zoom Meeting
https://epfl.zoom.us/j/83048158394?pwd=bzVuSmw5VHVoNHZqMUJEVmhKbm05UT09

Meeting ID: 830 4815 8394
Passcode: 537093

YouTube Live Stream:
https://youtu.be/4j5LXsXxuwA


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

James Watkins
 

Thanks the Maramu rail is quite different. 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 6:17 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

I do not have a line drawing from the manufacturer. 

This is a drawing that I received from Maud. 

The insert that was made is identical to this drawing. 


Pat

SM Shenanigans

 



On May 29, 2021, at 11:15 AM, James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...> wrote:



It is quite different I am pretty sure it is different.  Do you have a die line drawing?   Thanks

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 2:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Jim, Is the rub rail on the Maramu different from the SM ,if not you could use the die already made for SM. 

Pat

SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 3:24 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

I know this is a SM thread but I have ordered a new rub rail for my Maramu and I too have have had good experience with Technorubber.  I will have the die drawings in the next couple of weeks and I will post on site.  The die is $600 and rubrail $1,400.  I did a very unAmel thing and truly improved the sturdiness of the rubber protection.  I will post if anyone is interested.  Some contribution to the die would be great but I am doing the new rail regardless.

 

Best Regards

Jim Watkins

Act II Maramu Hull 186

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262

 

<BB6FE6684DE4412CA1FFAD7EAF4A7F34.png>


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Patrick McAneny
 

I do not have a line drawing from the manufacturer. 
This is a drawing that I received from Maud. 
The insert that was made is identical to this drawing. 

Pat
SM Shenanigans


On May 29, 2021, at 11:15 AM, James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...> wrote:



It is quite different I am pretty sure it is different.  Do you have a die line drawing?   Thanks

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 2:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Jim, Is the rub rail on the Maramu different from the SM ,if not you could use the die already made for SM. 

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 3:24 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

I know this is a SM thread but I have ordered a new rub rail for my Maramu and I too have have had good experience with Technorubber.  I will have the die drawings in the next couple of weeks and I will post on site.  The die is $600 and rubrail $1,400.  I did a very unAmel thing and truly improved the sturdiness of the rubber protection.  I will post if anyone is interested.  Some contribution to the die would be great but I am doing the new rail regardless.

 

Best Regards

Jim Watkins

Act II Maramu Hull 186

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262

 

<BB6FE6684DE4412CA1FFAD7EAF4A7F34.png>


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

James Watkins
 

It is quite different I am pretty sure it is different.  Do you have a die line drawing?   Thanks

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 2:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Jim, Is the rub rail on the Maramu different from the SM ,if not you could use the die already made for SM. 

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 3:24 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

I know this is a SM thread but I have ordered a new rub rail for my Maramu and I too have have had good experience with Technorubber.  I will have the die drawings in the next couple of weeks and I will post on site.  The die is $600 and rubrail $1,400.  I did a very unAmel thing and truly improved the sturdiness of the rubber protection.  I will post if anyone is interested.  Some contribution to the die would be great but I am doing the new rail regardless.

 

Best Regards

Jim Watkins

Act II Maramu Hull 186

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262

 


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Patrick McAneny
 

Jim, Is the rub rail on the Maramu different from the SM ,if not you could use the die already made for SM. 
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: James Watkins via groups.io <ewatk49734@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 3:24 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

I know this is a SM thread but I have ordered a new rub rail for my Maramu and I too have have had good experience with Technorubber.  I will have the die drawings in the next couple of weeks and I will post on site.  The die is $600 and rubrail $1,400.  I did a very unAmel thing and truly improved the sturdiness of the rubber protection.  I will post if anyone is interested.  Some contribution to the die would be great but I am doing the new rail regardless.
 
Best Regards
Jim Watkins
Act II Maramu Hull 186
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails
 
Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Patrick McAneny
 

Ken, You know just this morning ,thinking about the potential for another group buy  ,I  wished that I had measured the shipping box and weight . I would guess the boxes were 3'x3' ,(each insert come in a separate box) ,I would estimate the weight to be about 35 lbs. each. There may be another owner who has yet to install their inserts and can provide the exact size and weight, if not the manufacturer may have that info. They are very nice people to deal with and will do anything to help and answer questions. 
As to the die, I would have to check to see what I paid for it ,about $600 or so, which cost each of us approx. about $54 or so. I am not personally concerned about further reimbursement for the die. Maybe a contribution to the Amel site ,if it is needed?
I would be happy to obtain any further info from the manufacturer if needed.
Good Luck ,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 11:46 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: Downwind sailing on Amel 54 and storm jibs

Arno Luijten
 

Our 54 has the twin headsail downwind option. It has the custom forestay foil with three grooves and the swivel with the latching system. We have two whisker poles which are huge and heavy. One is mounted at the mast and the second one is on deck. They are a pig to handle.
They work differently compared to the Super Maramu as they are attached to the base of the mast when in operation and one-piece. The reason for this is that the rigging is different with swept-back spreaders and a different stay set up.
I think it works as well as on the Super Maramu but I have not used in in anger yet. We also have a gennaker on a top-down furler. It all was part of the boat when we bought her.
Setting up the whisker-pole is quite the effort as you need to attach a lot of lines at the tip of the pole being in front of the forestay at that moment. The weight and size of the pole makes it intimidating. I had a look at replacing the aluminum tubes with carbon fibre but found that intimidating as well, on financial level...
Once you manage to set up the poles it works pretty easy and you can furl both sails together.

Using the staysail is easy, You just need to use the running back-stays in high wind situations. As the cars for the sheets are movable you can also furl this sail to a smaller area, removing the need for a storm-jib. At least that is my opinion.

I don’t think the is a significant difference in the rolling motion for the 54 compared to the SM. Although the underwatership is a bit more rounded, it also has a bit more stability aft because of the wider hull at that point.  I guess is these factors cancel each other out in this respect.
That does not mean the rolling motion cannot be annoying at times on a 54. I fell almost out of bed once when anchored at Guadeloupe. I’m afraid that is one of the perks of owning a monohull. 


Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

James Watkins
 

I know this is a SM thread but I have ordered a new rub rail for my Maramu and I too have have had good experience with Technorubber.  I will have the die drawings in the next couple of weeks and I will post on site.  The die is $600 and rubrail $1,400.  I did a very unAmel thing and truly improved the sturdiness of the rubber protection.  I will post if anyone is interested.  Some contribution to the die would be great but I am doing the new rail regardless.

 

Best Regards

Jim Watkins

Act II Maramu Hull 186

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Powers SV Aquarius
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

 

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

michael winand
 

Hi Ken, we would be happy to buy a set,  made enquiries last time. Shipping costs to Australia were not viable. 
So we are a maybe,  once we know what it takes to get them to Australia. 
Ours are still in good shape. But we will be doing a topside rejuvenation in the next few years, so they would be great to have ready. 
Michael  Nebo sm251 


On Sat, 29 May 2021 at 1:46 pm, Ken Powers SV Aquarius
<ken@...> wrote:
Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Re: For those that missed the first procurement of Rub Rails

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

Thanks Pat,

But, it's only fair if we should share in the cost of the die as well somehow!  Let's see how many owners that are looking to upgrade their rub rails!

Can you tell me the weight of a set of rub rails for a SM?

Thanks,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262

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