Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Not really, Bill.  
1 - the gap (at least on my boat) is barely 2mm so only a minuscule amount of water ever gets in. 
2 - on my boat there's hardly ever water on the door, The most is when I wash the cockpit. 
3 - Amel plumbed the catchment below the door to readily drain into the bilge sump - no standing water for mold and mildew. Plus the catchment is wide open for airing out, especially at night when the hatch is up. 
4 - I used to get much more moldy "yuck" in the catchment with the weather strip - now I simply flush it out now and then and it's fresh as a daisy.

So, IMHO, there's no downside to not having the weatherstripping. The up side is that the door material, be it plywood or plexiglass stays perfect with no persnickety care with silicone or worrying about bent weatherstrip, etc.

There's more than one way to skin a cat,
Cheers, Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig, no weather strip means that all water running down the companionway door will run inside the boat and inside that bulkhead. I would really advise against that unless moisture, mold and mildew is acceptable.

The most common reason for black marks on the Companionway Door is that the wood gets damaged by UV and causes the rubber weather strip to stick as the door is lowered. In my opinion, the best treatment for the teak veneer door is to light hand-sand it and treat it with teak oil (at least every 6 months in the tropics). Pay attention to the rubber weather strip and do not allow it to fold under itself when lowering the door. If you have varnished the door (don't recommend), or teak-oiled it, and it is in good condition, AND, the rubber is still sticking to the door and folding under: Use a light coat of silicone spray on the door (Not WD40). You should also use the silicone spray on the door and top tracks and slides. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:45 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

And here's what I found a few years ago, it also works great.


Remove the weatherstripping and don't replace it.

You can keep the plywood or switch to plexiglass to amazingly brighten things below. No weatherstripping means no scratched or worn door panel.

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Here’s what I found a few years ago, it works great.

Here's the gasket material I found that works fine.  It's enough to do two replacements.

My first replacement in 2010 has dried out and needs replacement again after 5 years.

Purchased at JCWhitney.com

+1 800-529-4486

 

Belt Weatherstripping

Item No. 819751

 

Cost including shipping in 2010 was $28 US.


No bending required, just holes drilled and cut to length.


Since I put spar urethane on the companionway door, I’ve had no black rubber coming off on the door as it slides up and down.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy 



On Oct 20, 2018, at 10:31 AM, bazgrayson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike, I'm about to purchase this seal from Rockauto but have a few questions first.

Do you have any material left?
It looks like the metal piece is raised above the level of the fixed piece of wood that is on the outside of the door. Did you ever bend that down flush or have you left it raised, i tend to put my foot on the door sometimes.
I wish i had looked at it while at the rendezvous
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Thanks, Bill Rouse, and good luck with your effort to put together a better product. I "get" the frustration and I do understand you really can't comment at this time.  

I, like Bill Kinney, was simply looking for you to share specific "legal traps" you identified - other than the paragraphs Bill Kinney and Steve Morrison pointed out in their posts. That seemed to me to be separate from the proprietary homework you're doing for a possible future insurance product, but perhaps not.  

In the meantime I guess it remains "caveat emptor".

Cheers, Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

Craig,

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I had more to say. I apologize for the unintended "tease." I commented because I am as frustrated as most of you probably are. Insurance while cruising on BeBe equaled about 10% of our total cruising expenses...very close to the cost of food or boat maintenance.

I was motivated to do whatever I could regarding fair and quality insurance for Amel School Clients and I was angry and likewise motivated because of the way a few friends have recently been treated by insurance companies.

I reached out to someone I know in the marine insurance business and explained all of the reasons why I thought that Amel Yachts and this particular group of owners should be treated as a "select group." He agreed and has been working to provide just that. Of course, until I see what it is, I cannot know if it is what any Amel owner may want. And I can't really comment further because to do so would be guessing on my part.

I wish I had more to say.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill Rouse,


I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <steve_morrison@...> wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grenada summer insurance

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks Bill for sharing with us your finding and concerns regarding the insurance.
I was going to switch to Y Insurance, but will point that they also ask for a 1 piece crate, etc.

I promised I will write the entire story when over (be patient as this can last another 2 years). I have not posted updates on the Forum because I have inside informations regarding the insurance practices and do not want them to know what we found, but will share some facts.

First I will start with Rafael.
I begged him to share his story, but he was so disgusted that he did not and left the Forum. So at the risk of him getting upset with me, I will share it.
Rafael is from Chile and purchased Agapanthe a 1998 SM2K #246 (yes it said 2K on the vessel) in March, Olivier did the survey.
Same as for me, he was insured through Insurance De Lassee with an Helvetia policy.
Note: that his insurance was written in French and Rafael does not speak french.
Rafael’s Amel was located in Anse Marcel in (french) Saint Martin in what is supposed to be a “Hurricane Hole” by many insurances.
On Sept 6 Hurricane Irma came, his vessel was de-masted but did not sink (everything was later looted).
The insurance offered him 33% less than the agreed value because:
-Binimi was not removed
-BBQ was not removed from rail
-Fender were not tied from under the hull
-Dinghy was not deflated
-Booms were not removed
I told Rafael that the dinghy “deflated” and the removal of the 2 booms is not part of our insurance requirements.
He did not want to fight and accepted the settlement.

In my case, I fully complied with the insurance requirements, but they offered 25% less than the agreed value because of a clause in the policy saying they can offer “venal” (market) value and this is my responsibility to prove my vessel was worth more (better equipped and better maintained).
My lawyers told me “Agreed value” is a ripped off (at least for Helvetia because of that clause).
Thankfully I had all the illustrations I did for the forum and saved most my invoices, this help my surveyor to do a market evaluation of NIKIMAT, this survey was finished in March and now the insurance is now doing a counter-expertise of that survey…
Note: being a french resident, my insurance has to be french, governed under french law, so this could be different in US, etc.
Meanwhile, as required by law, the insurance must pay the amount they offer as a “partial” amount, while 25% in dispute will be decided later.
I signed the document authorizing them to pay that partial amount in June and 4 months later still nothing…
Why? Because they say I owe “this year’s premium” so blocked the payment.

Here is the time frame:

-September 6 NIKIMAT sunk

-October 20 my insurance policy ends

-November 10 I receive an offer from Helvetia (25% less than agreed value) which I contest.

-Early January I receive a letter that I owe the Nov 2018 to Nov 2019 premium, my lawyers reply.

-Early February another latter I owe the Nov 2017/18 premium, my lawyers reply.

-February 28 the insurance send a copy of the insurance contract saying that the insurance stops the day of a total loss “IF I ACCEPT THE SETTLEMENT” (which I refused being 25% less) so I owe the insurance for Nov 2017/18 (and likely will also have to pay Nov 2018/19, etc.).
Note: Last week I learnt that such close is not legal.

-February 28 insurance also send copy of an insurance renewal they supplely sent me on October 17 and that I had 10 days to cancel it, etc..
I never received it and suspected that copy was made much later.
Last week I happen to see a document from the insurance concluding that my vessel was a total loss on October 16, so obviously they did not send the renewal.

-Early March insurance hired a recovery company for 2018/2019 premium. My lawyer call them, insurance says that since the January and February mail were not sent certified they are not valid…
So if I had any doubt this was a miscommunication, the doubt is lifted…

-June (as required by law) insurance send me document to sign to receive their offer as a “partial” payment.

-Oct still no payment of the partial amount, lawyer call, insurance says they blocked it because the premium was not paid.

My lawyers (which quite frankly are very slow) now say that due to the unbelievable behavior of the insurance we have no choice than to go to court which process can last 2 years.

Insurance know that most people desperately need for the money now and will settle for anything, thankfully it is not my case.

Also the insurance has nothing to loose going to court, as (except if we can prove “Fraud”) under french law at most they will pay what they owe, the longer it takes, the more interest they make.
(Except in case of Fraud) there is no penalty like in the US, (well there is one but it is “symbolic”) and lawyers fees are at my expense.

Sincerely, Alexandre
NIKIMAT (SM2K #289)











--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10/21/18, Bill Rouse @billrouse [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grenada summer insurance
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Sunday, October 21, 2018, 9:44 AM


 









I have had numerous
emails asking me for more info on my interpretation of the
wording now used in the Pantaenius policy.
I no longer have the
entire policy, just clips that others have posted. As I
remember the policy that I read 3 years ago, it was
different than what was posted...I could be wrong, but allow
me to continue.
As I understand the
Pantaenius policy, regardless of your location in the
world, if there is a named tropical storm there are
specific duties that you must perform to be covered. As
example, if your vessel is in the ABCs or Panama, where
hurricanes are rare, you must perform all of the
following...and I believe that you will not find a place
within probably 500 miles that all of the following is
available. In fact, I believe that you will not find all
of the following anywhere.
"The insured vessel shall be
hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for
the vessel or in a hurricane
pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to
be lashed directly
to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with
a minimum
weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing
anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum
of one (1) tensioning
strap located symmetrically on each side of the
vessel for every 10 feet of vessel
length. Each strap shall have a minimum breaking
strength of 5000 lbs.
Single straps may be
run transversely
across the vessel and lashed to the ground or
concrete blocks on both sides of the vessel to
accomplish required
lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers
shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and
vandalism and all loose or removable items, components,
parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal
effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and
properly secured to prevent damage or
loss."
I
have highlighted undefined terms, which I believe will be
defined to 

Pantaenius' benefit at the time of claim, and I also
highlighted some requirements that you probably will not be
able to perform. For instance, "unitized" is generally defined as
"welded together" and we all know that these are
usually bolted at some points to allow for adjustment. Who
will define "suitable?" What
is the definition of "hurricane pit"? I
know some yards simply dig a hole. I am not sure. You will
have to utilize single straps run
transversely across the vessel and lashed to 5000
pound concrete blocks because you do not have cleats every
10 feet, and I think you will not find single tensioning
straps with 5000 pound breaking
strength that are long enough to transverse your
boat to concrete blocks on the ground. I have never seen the
required 12 each 5000 pound concrete blocks at any vessel
secured in a hurricane cradle or pit...maybe it exists
somewhere, but I haven't seen it. I say 12 because every
10 feet means 6 on each side.
I
sincerely hope that the above clears up
my thinking on this policy. I will admit that I am
somewhat prejudiced based on how a few of our members
were recently treated. In one recent case the insurance
company used undefined terms to deny most of a total loss. I
admit that really irritated me, as well as, all of the rest
of you familiar with NIKIMATs total loss claim. I believe
that the above policy language is "Loud &
Clear" on Pantaenius' intentions
if a claim is submitted. Only time will tell if I am
correct, partially correct, or simply prejudiced...frankly I
really hope that it is the
latter.
Best,
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander
Emeritus
Amel
School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie
St
Galveston Island, TX
77550
+1(832)
380-4970My
Calendar 


On Thu, Oct
18, 2018 at 11:24 AM Steve Morrison steve_morrison@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Hello
All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for
the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan
may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with
Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading
through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan
Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius
writes:The insured vessel shall be hauled
and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in
a hurricane pit.. With either arrangement, the vessel is to
be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one
concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be
located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be
accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap
located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every
10 feet of vessel length.
Each strap shall
have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps
may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the
ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In
addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be
secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all
loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment,
including but not limited to personal effects, sails,
cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly
secured to prevent damage or loss.

My question to the members
here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult
is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the
sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is
this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill? 
When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to
hold a spot for you should you need it?  
Any advice would be welcome
as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5
already comes with a stiff premium increase through
Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more
for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy
should the time come.
All the best to you all as
we await the annual 01Nov release...
Steve MorrisonSM 380 TouRaiHampton,
VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Santorin cockpit light wiring

 

Yogi has helped me also, especially with mostly unsolved problems, which, as we all know, are unsolvable until solved. Didn't Yogi say that?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018, 09:05 sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I finally found it! 


It goes down inside the center of the hard dodger but then, just to confuse you, turns to port a couple of feet under the dodger base before it goes down through a hole in the deck (under the dodger) and into the wire area behind the overhead sliding panel in the galley. Just a loose butt connector on the negative wire.  As Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by looking around". And it only took me 5 hours :-)  

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Does anyone know where the wires from the Santorin cockpit light are terminated? The + side is switched with the main salon breaker, but the wire runs to a remote terminal. I've got a fault on the - side and am guessing it may be connected at the nav station terminals, with the wires running in the overhead over to the nav station. If anyone has traced these wires down I'd appreciated knowing where they are. I suspect the SM may be wired similarly, but don't really know.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris - Brunswick GA USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grenada summer insurance

Porter McRoberts
 

Perhaps we could create a self insured entity with various levels of coverage for Amel owners only?  A thought. And a good bit of work as well!

Porter

A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Oct 21, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have had numerous emails asking me for more info on my interpretation of the wording now used in the Pantaenius policy.

I no longer have the entire policy, just clips that others have posted. As I remember the policy that I read 3 years ago, it was different than what was posted...I could be wrong, but allow me to continue.

As I understand the Pantaenius policy, regardless of your location in the world, if there is a named tropical storm there are specific duties that you must perform to be covered. As example, if your vessel is in the ABCs or Panama, where hurricanes are rare, you must perform all of the following...and I believe that you will not find a place within probably 500 miles that all of the following is available. In fact, I believe that you will not find all of the following anywhere.

"The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length. Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss."

I have highlighted undefined terms, which I believe will be defined to  Pantaenius' benefit at the time of claim, and I also highlighted some requirements that you probably will not be able to perform. For instance, "unitized" is generally defined as "welded together" and we all know that these are usually bolted at some points to allow for adjustment. Who will define "suitable?" What is the definition of "hurricane pit"? I know some yards simply dig a hole. I am not sure. You will have to utilize single straps run transversely across the vessel and lashed to 5000 pound concrete blocks because you do not have cleats every 10 feet, and I think you will not find single tensioning straps with 5000 pound breaking strength that are long enough to transverse your boat to concrete blocks on the ground. I have never seen the required 12 each 5000 pound concrete blocks at any vessel secured in a hurricane cradle or pit...maybe it exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it. I say 12 because every 10 feet means 6 on each side.

I sincerely hope that the above clears up my thinking on this policy. I will admit that I am somewhat prejudiced based on how a few of our members were recently treated. In one recent case the insurance company used undefined terms to deny most of a total loss. I admit that really irritated me, as well as, all of the rest of you familiar with NIKIMATs total loss claim. I believe that the above policy language is "Loud & Clear" on Pantaenius' intentions if a claim is submitted. Only time will tell if I am correct, partially correct, or simply prejudiced...frankly I really hope that it is the latter.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:24 AM Steve Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit.. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

greatketch@...
 

PantaeniusUSA has changed the language of their coverage for what they consider the "tropical storm zone."  Unlike many insurance companies, they are still writing policies for that area of the world at rates that are not totally unreasonable--even if the terms are very difficult to comply with.  But guess what?  Keeping a boat safe in the middle of a Catagory 4 hurricane is REALLY hard!  

I do not find their language at all "lawyerly," or full of "traps" but rather very precise and very clear about what they consider acceptable risk. They refuse to accept the risk of a boat at anchor, or tied to a floating dock, or tied to pilings in say... St Martin. That seems totally reasonable to me, because it is not a risk I would take with my boat and my money. 

I have seen boatyards in Florida that comply with the new on-the-hard storage requirements from Pantaenius so I know what they require is available in the industry, if not exactly common in the islands. (Maybe a market niche for an island capitalist?)

I don't see a change at all in Pantaenius' corporate culture from this change in ONE part of their coverage, just a significant sharpening of their pencils after a major loss--one that drove a LOT of other companies out of the market completely.

One of the things I have always liked about our policy with PantaeniusUSA is that the policy is very clear and easy to read. Just reading it I know exactly what the deal is, and it seems fair to both parties. I do not see where that has changed.

I am hoping that as corporate memories fade a bit, more companies come back into the market for long range cruising boats.  Strong competition is always a good thing for us buyers. If there is another player who can enter the market with worldwide coverage areas, a good, clear policy, fair rates, and an excellent record of fair claim dealing, I'll be all ears.  I might stay where I am, but I'll certainly listen.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Hi Bill Rouse,

I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grenada summer insurance

 

I have had numerous emails asking me for more info on my interpretation of the wording now used in the Pantaenius policy.

I no longer have the entire policy, just clips that others have posted. As I remember the policy that I read 3 years ago, it was different than what was posted...I could be wrong, but allow me to continue.

As I understand the Pantaenius policy, regardless of your location in the world, if there is a named tropical storm there are specific duties that you must perform to be covered. As example, if your vessel is in the ABCs or Panama, where hurricanes are rare, you must perform all of the following...and I believe that you will not find a place within probably 500 miles that all of the following is available. In fact, I believe that you will not find all of the following anywhere.

"The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length. Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss."

I have highlighted undefined terms, which I believe will be defined to  Pantaenius' benefit at the time of claim, and I also highlighted some requirements that you probably will not be able to perform. For instance, "unitized" is generally defined as "welded together" and we all know that these are usually bolted at some points to allow for adjustment. Who will define "suitable?" What is the definition of "hurricane pit"? I know some yards simply dig a hole. I am not sure. You will have to utilize single straps run transversely across the vessel and lashed to 5000 pound concrete blocks because you do not have cleats every 10 feet, and I think you will not find single tensioning straps with 5000 pound breaking strength that are long enough to transverse your boat to concrete blocks on the ground. I have never seen the required 12 each 5000 pound concrete blocks at any vessel secured in a hurricane cradle or pit...maybe it exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it. I say 12 because every 10 feet means 6 on each side.

I sincerely hope that the above clears up my thinking on this policy. I will admit that I am somewhat prejudiced based on how a few of our members were recently treated. In one recent case the insurance company used undefined terms to deny most of a total loss. I admit that really irritated me, as well as, all of the rest of you familiar with NIKIMATs total loss claim. I believe that the above policy language is "Loud & Clear" on Pantaenius' intentions if a claim is submitted. Only time will tell if I am correct, partially correct, or simply prejudiced...frankly I really hope that it is the latter.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:24 AM Steve Morrison steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: Santorin cockpit light wiring

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

I finally found it! 

It goes down inside the center of the hard dodger but then, just to confuse you, turns to port a couple of feet under the dodger base before it goes down through a hole in the deck (under the dodger) and into the wire area behind the overhead sliding panel in the galley. Just a loose butt connector on the negative wire.  As Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot by looking around". And it only took me 5 hours :-)  

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sangaris@...> wrote :

Does anyone know where the wires from the Santorin cockpit light are terminated? The + side is switched with the main salon breaker, but the wire runs to a remote terminal. I've got a fault on the - side and am guessing it may be connected at the nav station terminals, with the wires running in the overhead over to the nav station. If anyone has traced these wires down I'd appreciated knowing where they are. I suspect the SM may be wired similarly, but don't really know.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris - Brunswick GA USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

Craig, no weather strip means that all water running down the companionway door will run inside the boat and inside that bulkhead. I would really advise against that unless moisture, mold and mildew is acceptable.

The most common reason for black marks on the Companionway Door is that the wood gets damaged by UV and causes the rubber weather strip to stick as the door is lowered. In my opinion, the best treatment for the teak veneer door is to light hand-sand it and treat it with teak oil (at least every 6 months in the tropics). Pay attention to the rubber weather strip and do not allow it to fold under itself when lowering the door. If you have varnished the door (don't recommend), or teak-oiled it, and it is in good condition, AND, the rubber is still sticking to the door and folding under: Use a light coat of silicone spray on the door (Not WD40). You should also use the silicone spray on the door and top tracks and slides. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:45 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

And here's what I found a few years ago, it also works great.


Remove the weatherstripping and don't replace it.

You can keep the plywood or switch to plexiglass to amazingly brighten things below. No weatherstripping means no scratched or worn door panel.

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Here’s what I found a few years ago, it works great.

Here's the gasket material I found that works fine.  It's enough to do two replacements.

My first replacement in 2010 has dried out and needs replacement again after 5 years.

Purchased at JCWhitney.com

+1 800-529-4486

 

Belt Weatherstripping

Item No. 819751

 

Cost including shipping in 2010 was $28 US.


No bending required, just holes drilled and cut to length.


Since I put spar urethane on the companionway door, I’ve had no black rubber coming off on the door as it slides up and down.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy 



On Oct 20, 2018, at 10:31 AM, bazgrayson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike, I'm about to purchase this seal from Rockauto but have a few questions first.

Do you have any material left?
It looks like the metal piece is raised above the level of the fixed piece of wood that is on the outside of the door. Did you ever bend that down flush or have you left it raised, i tend to put my foot on the door sometimes.
I wish i had looked at it while at the rendezvous
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Alan Grayson
 

Thanks Mike, I'll take a piece. I have sent you an email off forum as well.

Kent, i couldn't find that part number on their website so ill just go with mikes item thanks tho.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

 

Craig,

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I had more to say. I apologize for the unintended "tease." I commented because I am as frustrated as most of you probably are. Insurance while cruising on BeBe equaled about 10% of our total cruising expenses...very close to the cost of food or boat maintenance.

I was motivated to do whatever I could regarding fair and quality insurance for Amel School Clients and I was angry and likewise motivated because of the way a few friends have recently been treated by insurance companies.

I reached out to someone I know in the marine insurance business and explained all of the reasons why I thought that Amel Yachts and this particular group of owners should be treated as a "select group." He agreed and has been working to provide just that. Of course, until I see what it is, I cannot know if it is what any Amel owner may want. And I can't really comment further because to do so would be guessing on my part.

I wish I had more to say.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:57 AM sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill Rouse,


I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@...,
I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Hi Bill Rouse,

I'd also like to know those specifics, if you will, as I've gone over our newest Pantaenius policy quite thoroughly and the unrealistic storage requirements were all I noted as changed and objectionable. 

That they have added "legal traps" as you call them is troubling and I'm sure those of us with Pantaenius policies would really like you to tell us what they are, as I, for one, simply didn't spot them.

I shopped a bit but got much higher quotes and less coverage so stuck with Pantaenius and just moved the boat north (out of Florida) into the seemingly prime east coast hurricane landing zone, but that's another issue.

Best,
Craig Briggs, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <steve_morrison@...> wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

And here's what I found a few years ago, it also works great.

Remove the weatherstripping and don't replace it.

You can keep the plywood or switch to plexiglass to amazingly brighten things below. No weatherstripping means no scratched or worn door panel.

Cheers, Craig, SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <karkauai@...> wrote :

Here’s what I found a few years ago, it works great.

Here's the gasket material I found that works fine.  It's enough to do two replacements.

My first replacement in 2010 has dried out and needs replacement again after 5 years.

Purchased at JCWhitney.com

+1 800-529-4486

 

Belt Weatherstripping

Item No. 819751

 

Cost including shipping in 2010 was $28 US.


No bending required, just holes drilled and cut to length.


Since I put spar urethane on the companionway door, I’ve had no black rubber coming off on the door as it slides up and down.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy 



On Oct 20, 2018, at 10:31 AM, bazgrayson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike, I'm about to purchase this seal from Rockauto but have a few questions first.

Do you have any material left?
It looks like the metal piece is raised above the level of the fixed piece of wood that is on the outside of the door. Did you ever bend that down flush or have you left it raised, i tend to put my foot on the door sometimes.
I wish i had looked at it while at the rendezvous
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

As is so often the case this thread happens to come up on the Amel Owners forum just at the right time when we are needing information of an issue.

We had been happily with Panteanius for 6 years, now Velos for 1.5yrs, but need to change insurers this week ahead of 31 October expiry. Velos can no longer insure a UK Registered boat if the owner (UK/EU citizen) has permanent residence in Australia.

We are just finalising clauses and costs with Top Sail over this  past week but it is pretty expensive. Also Y Yachts seem to have the same issue as Velos with regard to a UK registered yacht who has a UK citizen with a permanent residence in Australia. Not sure why this is, but assume it is the new Australian banking/Finance/Insurance regulators rules who have created roadblocks for all Insurance Companies who do not have a business footprint in Australia?

Anyhow if there is something in the melting pot Bill, or any other 11th hour advice for me, then would be most pleased to hear about it tomorrow. Our cruising area will be Cape Town to Caribbean and need to consider haul out and/or sailing into SW Caribbean option for 2019 Hurricane season so looking for best policy to cover those.

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II, sm#332
RCYC, at the stunningly beautiful Cape Town

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:58 AM Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill Kinney,

I sent you an email off group.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 20:45 greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old New Owner

Danny Simms
 

Welcome back Roque.
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl 

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 at 12:10, ediroque@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear all

I am glad to inform that I am an Amel owner. Again.

I know many of you have bought two (or three!) “Amels”, usually “moving up”. I went sideways! Maybe it is a first.  I used to own the Amel 54 #110, sold in 2014. Now I bought Attika, AMEL 54 #117, here in Brazil, my hometown.

I never really left this Forum after I sold my former 54, since it is always a pleasure to see so much camaraderie and expertise shared. So congrats to all that keep the ball rolling. A special thanks to Jose Luis, who recently “resigned” from his position. And a welcome to Bill, who will certainly do a great job (besides his so generous contributions).

As usual, there is some work, upgrades and fixing to do aboard Attika. I am counting on your sage advice and opinions.

And if you ever need anything from Brazil, please let me know.

Sincerely


Roque (Edison Roque)

Attika  A54 #117

Paraty - Brazil

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

 

Bill Kinney,

I sent you an email off group.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 20:45 greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Grenada summer insurance

greatketch@...
 

Bill,

Can you be specific about what has changed in Pantaenius' policies?  

Except for the changes in the tropical storm region, as far as I have noticed there have been no "Lawerly" changes to the terms of the policy.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <brouse@...> wrote :

I have recommended Pantaenius for the last 2 years, but I have always said, that the "best boat insurance company" changes often. It has changed! I currently would recommend avoiding Pantaenius because they have "lawyered" their policies with legal traps (requirements) which are apparently designed in such a way to avoid paying a claim. I am not sure who I would recommend at this point. 

Sometime early next year I hope to announce a policy designed for Amel Yacht Owners. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't say anything else about it. And, it may not be anything better than what's available. I have not been given a copy of the policy language yet. I will let you all know more when I know more.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 11:15 AM greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Steve,


We have been looking at the Pantaenius "hurricane zone" coverage conditions as well since we are considering the Southwest Caribbean for the summer season.  We found the requirements for land storage (Paragraph 1),inside building storage (Paragraph 2) and in-water storage (Paragraph 3) impractical for a vessel that wasn't out of service for the season--if such things are even available in the real world of the islands.  Fortunately there is a Paragraph 4, that we feel would meet our needs:
The insured vessel may be moved in order to avoid the effects of the NTS and prevent damage or loss, provided the vessel is moved in a time, manner, and direction reasonably calculated to avoid the NTS based on the projected path of the NTS and provided the projected path of the NTS is monitored by the insured at all times. If the vessel is moved and then secured, it must be secured in accordance with requirement 1, 2, or 3 above, unless the projected path of the NTS indicates the vessel will not be affected by the NTS. 
Certainly not everybody's possible answer, but for most of the Caribbean, if where you are has a bull's eye on it, heading south is (rarely) a mistake.  And if we get to the San Blas Islands, the risk there of a named storm is very small.  Certainly lower risk than anyplace on the USA East Coast south of Maine.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA



---In amelyachtowners@..., <steve_morrison@...> wrote :

Hello All.  TouRai is presently in Hampton Virginia preparing for the Salty Dawg Rally to the BVI.  As this year's plan may involve a summer in Grenada, we are working with Pantaenius to obtain our new coverage.  While reading through the "Named Tropical Storm Plan Requirements" of my new policy quote, Pantaenius writes:
  1. The insured vessel shall be hauled and secured a unitized cradle suitable for the vessel or in a hurricane pit. With either arrangement, the vessel is to be lashed directly to the ground or to concrete blocks, one concrete block with a minimum weight of 5000 lbs to be located at each lashing anchor point. Lashing is to be accomplished using a minimum of one (1) tensioning strap located symmetrically on each side of the vessel for every 10 feet of vessel length.
    Each strap shall have a minimum breaking strength of 5000 lbs. Single straps may be run transversely across the vessel and lashed to the ground or concrete blocks on both sides of
    the vessel to accomplish required lashings. In addition, the vessel interior and stowage lockers shall be secured and locked to prevent theft and vandalism and all loose or removable items, components, parts, and equipment, including but not limited to personal effects, sails, cushions, canvas, and covers, must be removed and properly secured to prevent damage or loss.


    My question to the members here who have spent time in Grenada is, "how difficult is it to meet such requirements in Grenada?  Is this the sort of set up I can expect to find on short notice, or is this a setup that Pantaenius assumes I can't fulfill?  When summering in Grenada, do you pay a haul out facility to hold a spot for you should you need it?  

    Any advice would be welcome as our renewal date is approaching.  Staying below 30.5 already comes with a stiff premium increase through Pantaenius, I just want to believe that I am not paying more for coverage stipulations that I will not be ale to satisfy should the time come.

    All the best to you all as we await the annual 01Nov release...

    Steve Morrison
    SM 380 TouRai
    Hampton, VA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old New Owner

Porter McRoberts
 

Very nice!
Welcome!!

Porter
S/V IBIS
A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Oct 20, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Roque,

Congratulations!

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 18:10 ediroque@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear all

I am glad to inform that I am an Amel owner. Again.

I know many of you have bought two (or three!) “Amels”, usually “moving up”. I went sideways! Maybe it is a first.  I used to own the Amel 54 #110, sold in 2014. Now I bought Attika, AMEL 54 #117, here in Brazil, my hometown.

I never really left this Forum after I sold my former 54, since it is always a pleasure to see so much camaraderie and expertise shared. So congrats to all that keep the ball rolling. A special thanks to Jose Luis, who recently “resigned” from his position. And a welcome to Bill, who will certainly do a great job (besides his so generous contributions).

As usual, there is some work, upgrades and fixing to do aboard Attika. I am counting on your sage advice and opinions.

And if you ever need anything from Brazil, please let me know.

Sincerely


Roque (Edison Roque)

Attika  A54 #117

Paraty - Brazil

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Old New Owner

 

Roque,

Congratulations!

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 20, 2018, 18:10 ediroque@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear all

I am glad to inform that I am an Amel owner. Again.

I know many of you have bought two (or three!) “Amels”, usually “moving up”. I went sideways! Maybe it is a first.  I used to own the Amel 54 #110, sold in 2014. Now I bought Attika, AMEL 54 #117, here in Brazil, my hometown.

I never really left this Forum after I sold my former 54, since it is always a pleasure to see so much camaraderie and expertise shared. So congrats to all that keep the ball rolling. A special thanks to Jose Luis, who recently “resigned” from his position. And a welcome to Bill, who will certainly do a great job (besides his so generous contributions).

As usual, there is some work, upgrades and fixing to do aboard Attika. I am counting on your sage advice and opinions.

And if you ever need anything from Brazil, please let me know.

Sincerely


Roque (Edison Roque)

Attika  A54 #117

Paraty - Brazil

Old New Owner

Roque
 

Dear all

I am glad to inform that I am an Amel owner. Again.

I know many of you have bought two (or three!) “Amels”, usually “moving up”. I went sideways! Maybe it is a first.  I used to own the Amel 54 #110, sold in 2014. Now I bought Attika, AMEL 54 #117, here in Brazil, my hometown.

I never really left this Forum after I sold my former 54, since it is always a pleasure to see so much camaraderie and expertise shared. So congrats to all that keep the ball rolling. A special thanks to Jose Luis, who recently “resigned” from his position. And a welcome to Bill, who will certainly do a great job (besides his so generous contributions).

As usual, there is some work, upgrades and fixing to do aboard Attika. I am counting on your sage advice and opinions.

And if you ever need anything from Brazil, please let me know.

Sincerely


Roque (Edison Roque)

Attika  A54 #117

Paraty - Brazil