Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailorman DC-DC converters

Mark Pitt
 

Hi Alan,

Each of the two Sailor convertors provides 8 amps at 13.2 volts.

Regards,

Mark Pitt
Sabbatical III, SM #419, Lanzarote, Canary Islands

On Oct 15, 2018, at 1:19 PM, bazgrayson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all, What is the amperage requirements for the 2 sailor convertors, I need new ones. I'm assuming 20 amps will be plenty and that I can get victron or master volt ones without any problem.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

------------------------------------
Posted by: bazgrayson@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailorman DC-DC converters

eric freedman
 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailorman DC-DC converters

Mark Erdos
 

Alan,

 

If I remember correctly, the DC-DC convertors need to be isolated convertors. Regarding the amps, this is difficult to answer without knowing what you plan to run with the convertors.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Aruba

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 7:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Sailorman DC-DC converters

 

 

Hi all, What is the amperage requirements for the 2 sailor convertors, I need new ones. I'm assuming 20 amps will be plenty and that I can get victron or master volt ones without any problem.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

Sailorman DC-DC converters

Alan Grayson
 

Hi all, What is the amperage requirements for the 2 sailor convertors, I need new ones. I'm assuming 20 amps will be plenty and that I can get victron or master volt ones without any problem.
Regards
Alan Grayson
SV Ora Pai SM 406
Ft Lauderdale

Santorin cockpit light wiring

Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
 

Does anyone know where the wires from the Santorin cockpit light are terminated? The + side is switched with the main salon breaker, but the wire runs to a remote terminal. I've got a fault on the - side and am guessing it may be connected at the nav station terminals, with the wires running in the overhead over to the nav station. If anyone has traced these wires down I'd appreciated knowing where they are. I suspect the SM may be wired similarly, but don't really know.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs SN68 Sangaris - Brunswick GA USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance question in case of total loss

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good evening Jean Pierre,

I was actually going to switch to Y Insurance.
I think their conditions were straight forward and reasonable.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 10/14/18, Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance question in case of total loss
To: "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 5:50 PM


 









Hello Alexandre,
As you know, I’ve left de
Lassée (Helvetia) because of their poor service.  Good at
collecting their fees but “bar stewards” at paying out
on claims.
I now use Y Yacht Insurance in UK
for what its worth.  They have a plain language policy
conditions and have an excellent reputation for settling
claims quickly.
Best of luck,
Jean-Pierre Germain,SY Eleuthera, SM 007Tonga
On 14 Oct 2018, at 03:27,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Dear Amel owners, 

On my insurance policy (Helvetia
subscribed through insurance DeLassee) it says (article
8.4.4) that my insurance is automatically canceled in case
of total loss - BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the
insurance only stops when then settlement has been
paid.  

Which is why the insurance still
ask me to pay the premium for this year and likely the next
one (since it is 25% less than the agreed value I am
contesting it).  

Does your insurance says the same
thing?

Thanks in advance,
sincerely, Alexandre<scan.jpg>

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance question in case of total loss [1 Attachment]

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Alexandre,

As you know, I’ve left de Lassée (Helvetia) because of their poor service.  Good at collecting their fees but “bar stewards” at paying out on claims.

I now use Y Yacht Insurance in UK for what its worth.  They have a plain language policy conditions and have an excellent reputation for settling claims quickly.

Best of luck,

Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, SM 007
Tonga

On 14 Oct 2018, at 03:27, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Dear Amel owners, 

On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss - BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only stops when then settlement has been paid.  

Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less than the agreed value I am contesting it).  

Does your insurance says the same thing?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre


Re: Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

s90.simon@...
 

Yes, I'm very well aware that there are sub-standard parts and material coming in from china and I have no intention to buy any of this. But often marine stores will charge it's customers a lot more for the exact same product just because it's "marine". 

In my estimation I took prices from marine-stores, swages and turnbuckles are from Seldén (same brand that for example Hallberg-Rassy and Najad uses).

Best regards
Simon

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

 

Simon,

Standing rigging is ALL ABOUT Quality=Safety. Whatever your decision, be aware that there are China-made questionable wire and parts on the market being resold by EU and American companies. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 11:24 AM s90.simon@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello

I did the following estimation:

Mast height: 16m
Beam at mast: 4m
Length: 14m
The 8mm shrouds are attached 1/3 up on the mast = 5,4m => wire length: 5,8m
2 of the 10mm shrouds are attached 2/3 up on the mast = 10,7m => wire length: 10,9m
Remaining 10mm shrouds are attached at the top = 16m => wire length: 16,2m
Fore and backstay are attached at the top = 16m => wire length: 17,5m

Total 8mm: 23,2m
Total 10mm: 89,2m
8mm swages: 8 pcs
10mm swages: 12 pcs
5/8" turnbuckles: 4 pcs
3/4" turnbuckles: 6 pcs

This should be possible to buy for around 3500EUR (or around 2500EUR without new turnbuckles), perhaps less since I probably can get a good deal on the wire.

Is there any reason to buy what to me seems to be overpriced wire from a "marine" store? I can get a good price if buying from a non-marine store, specification is 1x19 wire, AISI 316, EN 1.4401. Any reason not to buy this one? Does anyone know what steel for example ACMO uses in the wire they supply?

I also sent mail to ACMO as suggested to get a quote.

Best regards
Simon

Re: Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

s90.simon@...
 

Hello
I did the following estimation:

Mast height: 16m
Beam at mast: 4m
Length: 14m
The 8mm shrouds are attached 1/3 up on the mast = 5,4m => wire length: 5,8m
2 of the 10mm shrouds are attached 2/3 up on the mast = 10,7m => wire length: 10,9m
Remaining 10mm shrouds are attached at the top = 16m => wire length: 16,2m
Fore and backstay are attached at the top = 16m => wire length: 17,5m

Total 8mm: 23,2m
Total 10mm: 89,2m
8mm swages: 8 pcs
10mm swages: 12 pcs
5/8" turnbuckles: 4 pcs
3/4" turnbuckles: 6 pcs

This should be possible to buy for around 3500EUR (or around 2500EUR without new turnbuckles), perhaps less since I probably can get a good deal on the wire.

Is there any reason to buy what to me seems to be overpriced wire from a "marine" store? I can get a good price if buying from a non-marine store, specification is 1x19 wire, AISI 316, EN 1.4401. Any reason not to buy this one? Does anyone know what steel for example ACMO uses in the wire they supply?

I also sent mail to ACMO as suggested to get a quote.

Best regards
Simon

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss

 

Alex,

I answered you off group.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 16:43 Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good afternoon Bill,

But last November I “NEVER” received the renewal of the policy…
If I had, it would have been forwarded to my lawyers like everything else (marina suing me, etc.).

I definitely will forward the message to my lawyers to cancel the insurance..

Thanks again, sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 10/13/18, Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 4:04 PM


 









Alex,
I do not know who
is giving you advice, but your contract states several ways
for YOU to cancel the contract. I think the insurance
company is morally and ethically very wrong, but the way I
read your contract, they are technically right, and, you are
wrong for not cancelling the policy under  the terms of the
contract.
If the person giving you advice has advised you not
to cancel, or if the
person advising you has said nothing about your ability and
responsibility to cancel, I think you need to get advice
from someone else (not me, as I am not
qualified).
Best,
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral,
Texas Navy
Commander
Emeritus
Amel School  
720 Winnie
St
Galveston Island, TX
77550
+1(832)
380-4970My
Calendar 

On Sat, Oct
13, 2018 at 2:53 PM Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Good afternoon Bill & Bill,



Thanks for your replies.



Bill R.

So in my case the loss was Sept 6 (Hurricane Irma).

My Helvetia expired October 20.

They say they sent me a renewal but I never received it.


Then in January sent a letter that I owe the insurance, my
lawyers replied, then another letter in Feb, again my
lawyers replied, then again in March, my lawyers called and
the insurance told them that since they did not send the
letter via certified mail, this was not valid.

Since they hire a “collection agency” to ask for this
year’s premium (so Oct 20, 2017 to Oct 20 2018), which my
lawyers told me not to pay.

The insurance excuse is that I did not cancel the insurance,
but again I never received the renewal.

Their reason is that since I did not received the settlement
(because I contested it) the insurance has to continue…


And now they blocked the payment of the “partial” amount
(which is the one they offer, not the one that they owe).


No, I no longer own NIKIMAT, in fact I was told it was
shredded.

Thanks again for your help!



Bill K,

Thanks also for taking the time to reply and share your
policy.

My policy is definitely confusing to interpret, as yes,
article 8.4.4 I am supposed to keep paying the policy until
I receive the settlement.

Yes great incentive for them as should we go to court, it
will take 2 years...

Yes I was told that in case of total loss they would get the
entire year’s premium, even thought the loss could happen
at half the year… I wouldn’t mind that… but yes
wouldn’t be fair is you had a total loss early on the
year…

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.



Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10/13/18, greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case
of total loss

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 10:37 AM





 



















Alexandre,

(I

am not a lawyer, and give no legal advice, I just read
what

the policy says...)

Our policy from Pantaenious has no

such language in the event of a total loss. Your policy

language is very troublesome to me because it seems to

require you to keep paying premiums until you accept
their

settlement offer. Great incentive for them to drag it out
as

long as possible, and for you to settle for less than
you

are owed. 



Our policy has the

following, which goes to a similar point but, to me,
seems

much fairer to all parties:...

the annual premium is deemed

fully earned and non-refundable upon Pantaenius’

obligation to pay

any claim, cost or damage

reimbursement. Pantaenius shall have the right

to offset

any outstanding premium against any such obligation to

make payment on a claim, cost, or damage

reimbursement. 















In other words, if I (or they) cancel the policy
before

the end of the year, I receive a pro-rated
refund--unless

there has been a claim. In which case Pantaenius is owed
the

entire year's premium. If the entire year's
premium

has not yet been paid, they subtract the amount owed
from

the final claim settlement.  Payment of an owed
settlement

is not predicated on continued payment.  There is no

requirement for ongoing payments in order to get the

settlement for a loss covered by a valid policy, so no
time

pressure to accept the settlement, and no extra cash flow
to

them for being slow to pay.

To me, this seems only

fair.  They have averaged the risks over the entire
year,

and if I have a claim they should be paid for that full

year--no matter when the loss occurs. Our policy does
not

cover us one day at a time, but for the full year at one

go.

By way of an extreme

example, it would be unreasonable for me to have a total

loss on the first day of the policy year, and then expect
to

pay only 1/365th of the annual premium.

Again, not legal advice,

just my thoughts.

Bill KinneySM160, HarmonieAnnapolis, MD,

USA



---In

amelyachtowners@...,
wrote

:



Dear Amel owners,







On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through

insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my

insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss
-

BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance
only

stops when then settlement has been paid.







Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the
premium

for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25%
less

than the agreed value I am contesting it).







Does your insurance says the same thing?







Thanks in advance, sincerely,

Alexandre













Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

 

Simon,

Email the OEM supplier to Amel at Laetitia"at"acmo.fr

Be sure to tell her Santorin (Sloop or Ketch) and the year. Ask for a quote for a complete standing rigging kit. My guess is it will cost you around 7k euro for a ketch.

You will probably need to find a rigger to install, but you might be able to do it yourself.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Sun, Oct 14, 2018, 04:04 s90.simon@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello

I was wondering what the size (diameter) of the different steel wires on the sloop rigged Amel Santorin are? The one I have been looking at needs to have its standing rigging replaced and I'm trying to calculate how much that would cost. Unfortunately I forgot to measure this when I visited the boat. Hopefully someone here can help me.


Best regards

Simon

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

tfortner1975
 

Hello Simon, 

On the 1990 SN27 Sloop:
The forestay, backstay and 2 outer cap shrouds are 10mm. 
The other cap and inner shrouds are 8mm. 

Also, if you wanted to use ACMO (the original) you can email them or Maud from Amel. I’ve spoken with ACMO and they had on file the details for SN27. They should be able to provide the exact rigging quote, including shipping, ready to install. 

Trevor
SV Iris, SN27
Miri, Malaysia 



On Oct 14, 2018, at 5:04 PM, s90.simon@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello

I was wondering what the size (diameter) of the different steel wires on the sloop rigged Amel Santorin are? The one I have been looking at needs to have its standing rigging replaced and I'm trying to calculate how much that would cost. Unfortunately I forgot to measure this when I visited the boat. Hopefully someone here can help me.


Best regards

Simon

Standing rigging wire size on Santorin

s90.simon@...
 

Hello

I was wondering what the size (diameter) of the different steel wires on the sloop rigged Amel Santorin are? The one I have been looking at needs to have its standing rigging replaced and I'm trying to calculate how much that would cost. Unfortunately I forgot to measure this when I visited the boat. Hopefully someone here can help me.


Best regards

Simon

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Bill,

But last November I “NEVER” received the renewal of the policy…
If I had, it would have been forwarded to my lawyers like everything else (marina suing me, etc.).

I definitely will forward the message to my lawyers to cancel the insurance.

Thanks again, sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10/13/18, Bill Rouse @billrouse [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 4:04 PM


 









Alex,
I do not know who
is giving you advice, but your contract states several ways
for YOU to cancel the contract. I think the insurance
company is morally and ethically very wrong, but the way I
read your contract, they are technically right, and, you are
wrong for not cancelling the policy under  the terms of the
contract.
If the person giving you advice has advised you not
to cancel, or if the
person advising you has said nothing about your ability and
responsibility to cancel, I think you need to get advice
from someone else (not me, as I am not
qualified).
Best,
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral,
Texas Navy
Commander
Emeritus
Amel School  
720 Winnie
St
Galveston Island, TX
77550
+1(832)
380-4970My
Calendar 

On Sat, Oct
13, 2018 at 2:53 PM Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Good afternoon Bill & Bill,



Thanks for your replies.



Bill R.

So in my case the loss was Sept 6 (Hurricane Irma).

My Helvetia expired October 20.

They say they sent me a renewal but I never received it.


Then in January sent a letter that I owe the insurance, my
lawyers replied, then another letter in Feb, again my
lawyers replied, then again in March, my lawyers called and
the insurance told them that since they did not send the
letter via certified mail, this was not valid.

Since they hire a “collection agency” to ask for this
year’s premium (so Oct 20, 2017 to Oct 20 2018), which my
lawyers told me not to pay.

The insurance excuse is that I did not cancel the insurance,
but again I never received the renewal.

Their reason is that since I did not received the settlement
(because I contested it) the insurance has to continue…


And now they blocked the payment of the “partial” amount
(which is the one they offer, not the one that they owe).


No, I no longer own NIKIMAT, in fact I was told it was
shredded.

Thanks again for your help!



Bill K,

Thanks also for taking the time to reply and share your
policy.

My policy is definitely confusing to interpret, as yes,
article 8.4.4 I am supposed to keep paying the policy until
I receive the settlement.

Yes great incentive for them as should we go to court, it
will take 2 years...

Yes I was told that in case of total loss they would get the
entire year’s premium, even thought the loss could happen
at half the year… I wouldn’t mind that… but yes
wouldn’t be fair is you had a total loss early on the
year…

Anyway, thanks again for your reply.



Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10/13/18, greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:



Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case
of total loss

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 10:37 AM





 



















Alexandre,

(I

am not a lawyer, and give no legal advice, I just read
what

the policy says...)

Our policy from Pantaenious has no

such language in the event of a total loss. Your policy

language is very troublesome to me because it seems to

require you to keep paying premiums until you accept
their

settlement offer. Great incentive for them to drag it out
as

long as possible, and for you to settle for less than
you

are owed. 



Our policy has the

following, which goes to a similar point but, to me,
seems

much fairer to all parties:...

the annual premium is deemed

fully earned and non-refundable upon Pantaenius’

obligation to pay

any claim, cost or damage

reimbursement. Pantaenius shall have the right

to offset

any outstanding premium against any such obligation to

make payment on a claim, cost, or damage

reimbursement. 















In other words, if I (or they) cancel the policy
before

the end of the year, I receive a pro-rated
refund--unless

there has been a claim. In which case Pantaenius is owed
the

entire year's premium. If the entire year's
premium

has not yet been paid, they subtract the amount owed
from

the final claim settlement.  Payment of an owed
settlement

is not predicated on continued payment.  There is no

requirement for ongoing payments in order to get the

settlement for a loss covered by a valid policy, so no
time

pressure to accept the settlement, and no extra cash flow
to

them for being slow to pay.

To me, this seems only

fair.  They have averaged the risks over the entire
year,

and if I have a claim they should be paid for that full

year--no matter when the loss occurs. Our policy does
not

cover us one day at a time, but for the full year at one

go.

By way of an extreme

example, it would be unreasonable for me to have a total

loss on the first day of the policy year, and then expect
to

pay only 1/365th of the annual premium.

Again, not legal advice,

just my thoughts.

Bill KinneySM160, HarmonieAnnapolis, MD,

USA



---In

amelyachtowners@...,
<uster@...> wrote

:



Dear Amel owners,







On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through

insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my

insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss
-

BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance
only

stops when then settlement has been paid.







Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the
premium

for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25%
less

than the agreed value I am contesting it).







Does your insurance says the same thing?







Thanks in advance, sincerely,

Alexandre

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss

 

Alex,

I do not know who is giving you advice, but your contract states several ways for YOU to cancel the contract. I think the insurance company is morally and ethically very wrong, but the way I read your contract, they are technically right, and, you are wrong for not cancelling the policy under  the terms of the contract.

If the person giving you advice has advised you not to cancel, or if the person advising you has said nothing about your ability and responsibility to cancel, I think you need to get advice from someone else (not me, as I am not qualified).

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 2:53 PM Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good afternoon Bill & Bill,

Thanks for your replies.

Bill R.
So in my case the loss was Sept 6 (Hurricane Irma).
My Helvetia expired October 20.
They say they sent me a renewal but I never received it.
Then in January sent a letter that I owe the insurance, my lawyers replied, then another letter in Feb, again my lawyers replied, then again in March, my lawyers called and the insurance told them that since they did not send the letter via certified mail, this was not valid.
Since they hire a “collection agency” to ask for this year’s premium (so Oct 20, 2017 to Oct 20 2018), which my lawyers told me not to pay.
The insurance excuse is that I did not cancel the insurance, but again I never received the renewal.
Their reason is that since I did not received the settlement (because I contested it) the insurance has to continue…
And now they blocked the payment of the “partial” amount (which is the one they offer, not the one that they owe).
No, I no longer own NIKIMAT, in fact I was told it was shredded.
Thanks again for your help!

Bill K,
Thanks also for taking the time to reply and share your policy.
My policy is definitely confusing to interpret, as yes, article 8.4.4 I am supposed to keep paying the policy until I receive the settlement.
Yes great incentive for them as should we go to court, it will take 2 years..
Yes I was told that in case of total loss they would get the entire year’s premium, even thought the loss could happen at half the year… I wouldn’t mind that… but yes wouldn’t be fair is you had a total loss early on the year…
Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 10/13/18, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 10:37 AM


 









Alexandre,
(I
am not a lawyer, and give no legal advice, I just read what
the policy says...)
Our policy from Pantaenious has no
such language in the event of a total loss. Your policy
language is very troublesome to me because it seems to
require you to keep paying premiums until you accept their
settlement offer. Great incentive for them to drag it out as
long as possible, and for you to settle for less than you
are owed. 

Our policy has the
following, which goes to a similar point but, to me, seems
much fairer to all parties:...
the annual premium is deemed
fully earned and non-refundable upon Pantaenius’
obligation to pay
any claim, cost or damage
reimbursement. Pantaenius shall have the right
to offset
any outstanding premium against any such obligation to
make payment on a claim, cost, or damage
reimbursement. 







In other words, if I (or they) cancel the policy before
the end of the year, I receive a pro-rated refund--unless
there has been a claim. In which case Pantaenius is owed the
entire year's premium. If the entire year's premium
has not yet been paid, they subtract the amount owed from
the final claim settlement.  Payment of an owed settlement
is not predicated on continued payment.  There is no
requirement for ongoing payments in order to get the
settlement for a loss covered by a valid policy, so no time
pressure to accept the settlement, and no extra cash flow to
them for being slow to pay.
To me, this seems only
fair.  They have averaged the risks over the entire year,
and if I have a claim they should be paid for that full
year--no matter when the loss occurs. Our policy does not
cover us one day at a time, but for the full year at one
go.
By way of an extreme
example, it would be unreasonable for me to have a total
loss on the first day of the policy year, and then expect to
pay only 1/365th of the annual premium.
Again, not legal advice,
just my thoughts.
Bill KinneySM160, HarmonieAnnapolis, MD,
USA

---In
amelyachtowners@..., wrote
:

Dear Amel owners,



On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through
insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my
insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss -
BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only
stops when then settlement has been paid.



Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium
for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less
than the agreed value I am contesting it).



Does your insurance says the same thing?



Thanks in advance, sincerely,
Alexandre





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Bill & Bill,

Thanks for your replies.

Bill R.
So in my case the loss was Sept 6 (Hurricane Irma).
My Helvetia expired October 20.
They say they sent me a renewal but I never received it.
Then in January sent a letter that I owe the insurance, my lawyers replied, then another letter in Feb, again my lawyers replied, then again in March, my lawyers called and the insurance told them that since they did not send the letter via certified mail, this was not valid.
Since they hire a “collection agency” to ask for this year’s premium (so Oct 20, 2017 to Oct 20 2018), which my lawyers told me not to pay.
The insurance excuse is that I did not cancel the insurance, but again I never received the renewal.
Their reason is that since I did not received the settlement (because I contested it) the insurance has to continue…
And now they blocked the payment of the “partial” amount (which is the one they offer, not the one that they owe).
No, I no longer own NIKIMAT, in fact I was told it was shredded.
Thanks again for your help!

Bill K,
Thanks also for taking the time to reply and share your policy.
My policy is definitely confusing to interpret, as yes, article 8.4.4 I am supposed to keep paying the policy until I receive the settlement.
Yes great incentive for them as should we go to court, it will take 2 years.
Yes I was told that in case of total loss they would get the entire year’s premium, even thought the loss could happen at half the year… I wouldn’t mind that… but yes wouldn’t be fair is you had a total loss early on the year…
Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10/13/18, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Insurance question in case of total loss
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, October 13, 2018, 10:37 AM


 









Alexandre,
(I
am not a lawyer, and give no legal advice, I just read what
the policy says...)
Our policy from Pantaenious has no
such language in the event of a total loss. Your policy
language is very troublesome to me because it seems to
require you to keep paying premiums until you accept their
settlement offer. Great incentive for them to drag it out as
long as possible, and for you to settle for less than you
are owed. 

Our policy has the
following, which goes to a similar point but, to me, seems
much fairer to all parties:...
the annual premium is deemed
fully earned and non-refundable upon Pantaenius’
obligation to pay
any claim, cost or damage
reimbursement. Pantaenius shall have the right
to offset
any outstanding premium against any such obligation to
make payment on a claim, cost, or damage
reimbursement. 







In other words, if I (or they) cancel the policy before
the end of the year, I receive a pro-rated refund--unless
there has been a claim. In which case Pantaenius is owed the
entire year's premium. If the entire year's premium
has not yet been paid, they subtract the amount owed from
the final claim settlement.  Payment of an owed settlement
is not predicated on continued payment.  There is no
requirement for ongoing payments in order to get the
settlement for a loss covered by a valid policy, so no time
pressure to accept the settlement, and no extra cash flow to
them for being slow to pay.
To me, this seems only
fair.  They have averaged the risks over the entire year,
and if I have a claim they should be paid for that full
year--no matter when the loss occurs. Our policy does not
cover us one day at a time, but for the full year at one
go.
By way of an extreme
example, it would be unreasonable for me to have a total
loss on the first day of the policy year, and then expect to
pay only 1/365th of the annual premium.
Again, not legal advice,
just my thoughts.
Bill KinneySM160, HarmonieAnnapolis, MD,
USA

---In
amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote
:

Dear Amel owners,



On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through
insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my
insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss -
BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only
stops when then settlement has been paid.



Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium
for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less
than the agreed value I am contesting it).



Does your insurance says the same thing?



Thanks in advance, sincerely,
Alexandre

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance question in case of total loss [1 Attachment]

 

Alex,

8.4.4 describes the terms of an "Automatic Termination for Total Loss." However, "8.4.1 – By you or us" specifies all of the conditions on which you can terminate...there are several options for you to terminate...remember as long as the loss date is prior to the termination date, you are covered for the loss. Also, 8.4.1 states, "Your contract is automatically suspended on the day following the sale at zero hour." I assume that you no longer own your boat, that, in fact, it has been sold to the salvage company.

I believe you have been given bad advice, but I am no expert.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 9:27 AM Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Amel owners,

On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss - BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only stops when then settlement has been paid.

Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less than the agreed value I am contesting it).

Does your insurance says the same thing?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre

Re: Insurance question in case of total loss

greatketch@...
 

Alexandre,

(I am not a lawyer, and give no legal advice, I just read what the policy says...)

Our policy from Pantaenious has no such language in the event of a total loss. Your policy language is very troublesome to me because it seems to require you to keep paying premiums until you accept their settlement offer. Great incentive for them to drag it out as long as possible, and for you to settle for less than you are owed. 

Our policy has the following, which goes to a similar point but, to me, seems much fairer to all parties:

... the annual premium is deemed fully earned and non-refundable upon Pantaenius’ obligation to pay any claim, cost or damage reimbursement. Pantaenius shall have the right to offset any outstanding premium against any such obligation to make payment on a claim, cost, or damage reimbursement. 

In other words, if I (or they) cancel the policy before the end of the year, I receive a pro-rated refund--unless there has been a claim. In which case Pantaenius is owed the entire year's premium. If the entire year's premium has not yet been paid, they subtract the amount owed from the final claim settlement.  Payment of an owed settlement is not predicated on continued payment.  There is no requirement for ongoing payments in order to get the settlement for a loss covered by a valid policy, so no time pressure to accept the settlement, and no extra cash flow to them for being slow to pay.

To me, this seems only fair.  They have averaged the risks over the entire year, and if I have a claim they should be paid for that full year--no matter when the loss occurs. Our policy does not cover us one day at a time, but for the full year at one go.

By way of an extreme example, it would be unreasonable for me to have a total loss on the first day of the policy year, and then expect to pay only 1/365th of the annual premium.

Again, not legal advice, just my thoughts.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Annapolis, MD, USA


---In amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote :

Dear Amel owners,

On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss - BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only stops when then settlement has been paid.

Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less than the agreed value I am contesting it).

Does your insurance says the same thing?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre

Insurance question in case of total loss

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Dear Amel owners,

On my insurance policy (Helvetia subscribed through insurance DeLassee) it says (article 8.4.4) that my insurance is automatically canceled in case of total loss - BUT (last line of that paragraph) that the insurance only stops when then settlement has been paid.

Which is why the insurance still ask me to pay the premium for this year and likely the next one (since it is 25% less than the agreed value I am contesting it).

Does your insurance says the same thing?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre