Date   
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Willem Kroes
 

Thanks a lot Alan!

Kind regards, Willem

SM#351 KAVANGA

Op 6 dec. 2018 22:25 schreef "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" :
 

The part number for the Leroy Somer gearbox as on SM437 is :


MVA M33 C CR20 60 

The last time I bought one from the Australian dealer it cost me A$1295 delivered.

Cheers

Alan
Elyse SM437

Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Jeroen jeltes
 

Thank you Bill.  the position of the copper foil in the aft lazarette is very usefull information.  i  will let you now how i get on.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Alan Leslie
 

The part number for the Leroy Somer gearbox as on SM437 is :

MVA M33 C CR20 60 

The last time I bought one from the Australian dealer it cost me A$1295 delivered.

Cheers

Alan
Elyse SM437

An Anchor Alternative...

greatketch@...
 

Harmonie came to us with a 40kg Rocna anchor.  I believe that this has been the the standard anchor that people have chosen when they were looking to upsize from the 30kg Bügel.


After a circumnavigation with the previous owners, and an additional couple of years with us, our reliable old friend on the bow was getting a bit worn.  The galvanizing was almost all gone, and the rust was starting to bleed through. We looked at having our chain and anchor re-galvanized, but could not find a source to take on such a relatively small project in a cost effective manner.  Since we were in the market for a second anchor anyway, it was time to shop.


The long version of this story is in our blog, but I thought the Amel world would be interested.


Making a very long story as brief as possible, we ended up selecting a 48kg (105lb) Mantus as our new primary anchor.  Having a lot of  previous experience with the Mantus anchor, we were sure we would be at least as happy with the anchoring performance as we would be with the 40kg Rocna. The only question was if the fit on the bow roller was going to be satisfactory.  With templates and tape measures we were pretty comfortable that things would work well.


Turns out the Mantus fits even better than the Rocna. More secure, and less interference with the pulpit and second anchor roller.  Be aware that our roller is the "old style" and even from that is slightly modified, so be sure you check yourself for fit on your boat.  


We ended up with an anchor with about 10% more surface area than the 40kg Rocna, for just about the same price. Many of you know I HATE adding weight to the bow of the boat, but the extra 17 lbs seems worth it.


Always good to have alternatives!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

greatketch@...
 

There are many distributors for LeroySomers gear boxes, but to order them direct you will need the exact part number, which I do not have, or take the gearbox in and have the staff measure them. The last time I looked, delivery was 12 to 20 weeks from France.

Amel has the LeroySomers gearboxes in stock.  Maud just shipped us two.  Expensive, but available.



Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

greatketch@...
 


Ian,

Interesting...  Are your plugs just held in by the "liner"?  If so, how did they fall fall out? Which I understand to be the problem with your swivel.

Bill


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sv_freespirit@...> wrote :

Bill,

you must have a different design to my swivel. There are no circlips on SM 414. The balls I got from Amel no problem, but not the plugs. OK on the lube side. I did not intend to use any. All of my ball bearings were showing signs of degradation, cracking and wear, so I will replace the lot.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus

On 04/12/2018 21:02, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Ian,


The actual balls for the ball bearings are readily available.  They are a standard part. Mine were all in good shape, and got reassembled or I would measure them.  Measure carefully, and do not assume they are metric.  Many European manufacturers of moving rigging parts use 0.25 inch ball bearings. The cir-clips are also a standard size and widely available.  The plugs... of course not so much! 

I just had my swivel rebuilt.  The first cir-clip came out without a hitch, followed by the plug.  The second clip shattered when it was being removed, and left little corroded pieces of itself behind that made removing the plug a nightmare.  The cir-clips were replaced with stainless ones that will not have this problem.  

Like so many things, this is a compromise.  A higher risk of corrosion to the swivel body, but a lower risk of corrosion to an aluminum clip that can cause loss of the clips and plugs.  I have put a good coat of Lanocoat over the clips, and added the part to my routine inspection list.  Hopefully that, along with the part's location well above the normal salt spray zone, will keep things together and running smoothly.

An interesting piece of recent technical advice from Harkin about these plastic ball bearings in other applications.  They strongly suggest NOT lubricating them with the standard dry silicone lubricants-just keep them flushed with fresh water. The rational is the silicones can make the bearing race so slick that the balls start to slide instead of roll.  Then they get a flat spot, and things go down hill from there.  This was news to me, although it has the sound of truth to it.  

I haven't decided yet if I will stop putting dry lube on parts like this.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

Ian Park
 

Ian
It was a flush fit and the two halves of the furler rolled round smoothly. I guess that as long as the plug is kept oriented properly by the ridge the bearings keep it in place. The whole thing is a nicely simple design that works. I know that while I was experimenting with plugs the ball race jammed every time, until it was the right shape for the ball race and kept in position by that ridge.

No circlips on mine. I used standard Harken Delrin bearings. Marked as 10mm but measured a bit less. Still working well. Never did think of lubrication. Not much salt at the top of the forestay, but always gave it a good soak in fresh water when the sail came off.

Ian

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

Ian Shepherd
 

Ian,

just one question. As the stopper hole has no shoulder on it, how do you stop the plug from going too far in and disrupting the ball track?

Ian SM2K 414 Crusader Cyprus

On 04/12/2018 15:29, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Ian
That is exactly what I did. But I went to a machine shop, left the swivel with them and they made a perfect stopper, shaped to the ball race and with the alignment ridge on the outside. Not sure what the plastic was - it was very hard and a perfect fit. I believe it was a plastic rod the correct diameter they started with.
I should have asked them to make a few spares but I didn’t think about it at the time.
That ridge is important if the stopper turns the swivel jams. I used a short plug at first but one bearing would catch on the edge of the hole, stop and jam it he rest. It has to be a match for the bearing groove.
Good luck.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

Ian Shepherd
 

Bill,

you must have a different design to my swivel. There are no circlips on SM 414. The balls I got from Amel no problem, but not the plugs. OK on the lube side. I did not intend to use any. All of my ball bearings were showing signs of degradation, cracking and wear, so I will replace the lot.

Regards

Ian SM 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus

On 04/12/2018 21:02, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Ian,


The actual balls for the ball bearings are readily available.  They are a standard part. Mine were all in good shape, and got reassembled or I would measure them.  Measure carefully, and do not assume they are metric.  Many European manufacturers of moving rigging parts use 0.25 inch ball bearings. The cir-clips are also a standard size and widely available.  The plugs... of course not so much! 

I just had my swivel rebuilt.  The first cir-clip came out without a hitch, followed by the plug.  The second clip shattered when it was being removed, and left little corroded pieces of itself behind that made removing the plug a nightmare.  The cir-clips were replaced with stainless ones that will not have this problem.  

Like so many things, this is a compromise.  A higher risk of corrosion to the swivel body, but a lower risk of corrosion to an aluminum clip that can cause loss of the clips and plugs.  I have put a good coat of Lanocoat over the clips, and added the part to my routine inspection list.  Hopefully that, along with the part's location well above the normal salt spray zone, will keep things together and running smoothly.

An interesting piece of recent technical advice from Harkin about these plastic ball bearings in other applications.  They strongly suggest NOT lubricating them with the standard dry silicone lubricants-just keep them flushed with fresh water. The rational is the silicones can make the bearing race so slick that the balls start to slide instead of roll.  Then they get a flat spot, and things go down hill from there.  This was news to me, although it has the sound of truth to it.  

I haven't decided yet if I will stop putting dry lube on parts like this.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

greatketch@...
 

Ian,

The actual balls for the ball bearings are readily available.  They are a standard part. Mine were all in good shape, and got reassembled or I would measure them.  Measure carefully, and do not assume they are metric.  Many European manufacturers of moving rigging parts use 0.25 inch ball bearings. The cir-clips are also a standard size and widely available.  The plugs... of course not so much! 

I just had my swivel rebuilt.  The first cir-clip came out without a hitch, followed by the plug.  The second clip shattered when it was being removed, and left little corroded pieces of itself behind that made removing the plug a nightmare.  The cir-clips were replaced with stainless ones that will not have this problem.  

Like so many things, this is a compromise.  A higher risk of corrosion to the swivel body, but a lower risk of corrosion to an aluminum clip that can cause loss of the clips and plugs.  I have put a good coat of Lanocoat over the clips, and added the part to my routine inspection list.  Hopefully that, along with the part's location well above the normal salt spray zone, will keep things together and running smoothly.

An interesting piece of recent technical advice from Harkin about these plastic ball bearings in other applications.  They strongly suggest NOT lubricating them with the standard dry silicone lubricants-just keep them flushed with fresh water. The rational is the silicones can make the bearing race so slick that the balls start to slide instead of roll.  Then they get a flat spot, and things go down hill from there.  This was news to me, although it has the sound of truth to it.  

I haven't decided yet if I will stop putting dry lube on parts like this.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

Ian Park
 

Ian
That is exactly what I did. But I went to a machine shop, left the swivel with them and they made a perfect stopper, shaped to the ball race and with the alignment ridge on the outside. Not sure what the plastic was - it was very hard and a perfect fit. I believe it was a plastic rod the correct diameter they started with.
I should have asked them to make a few spares but I didn’t think about it at the time.
That ridge is important if the stopper turns the swivel jams. I used a short plug at first but one bearing would catch on the edge of the hole, stop and jam it he rest. It has to be a match for the bearing groove.
Good luck.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Willem Kroes
 

Thank you Alexandre!

 

Do you know where I can buy the Leroy Somer Mini Bloc reduction gear boxes?

 

Best regards,

 

Willem Kroes

 

SM#351 KAVANGA

 

Van: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Verzonden: zondag 2 december 2018 15:16
Aan: amelyachtowners@...
Onderwerp: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

 

 

No, the SM2K had the Leroy Somer.
Here is a comparaison:
http://www.nikimat.com/furler_transmission_leroy_somer_vs_bonfiglioli.html

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 12/2/18, 'Willem J. Kroes' kavanga@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Sunday, December 2, 2018, 7:45 AM


 













Hi Robin,

 
Do you
know if these gear boxes are also applicable on Super
Maramu’s?

 
Best
regards,

 
Willem
Kroes

 
SM#351
KAVANGA
Berthed
in Cartagena, Murcia, Spain

 

 

Swivel Ball Stopper Plugs

Ian Shepherd
 

Have stripped my forestay swivel I found that both my ball stopper plugs were missing. Without these plugs the plastic balls will get a hammering as they pass the insertion hole. Amel tell me that these plugs are not available as a spare and that I should use some silicone to plug the holes. I am not happy with that solution as the balls need to have a smooth shaped surface to run over and silicone may well clog up the ball race.

My idea is to buy some 10mm nylon or wood dowelling and carefully file the plugs to the correct shape on the ball race side and to file a ridge in the other end so that it cannot twist once inserted. The ridge would sit in the slot in the carbon fibre sleeve.

I am disappointed that Amel do not sell an overhaul kit consisting of new ball bearings complete with a new sleeve and a new set of ball stopper plugs.

If anyone has another solution, please let me know.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Cyprus

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway downward sliding part dimensions

Willem Kroes
 

Thanks Mark, I will cut out following these dimensions.

 

Kind regards,

 

Willem

 

SM#351 KAVANGA

 

Van: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Verzonden: zondag 2 december 2018 14:47
Aan: amelyachtowners@...
Onderwerp: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway downward sliding part dimensions

 

 

Willem

 

28” wind by 48” tall will give you ample material.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Santa Marta, Colombia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 9:36 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway downward sliding part dimensions

 

 

Hi Amelians,

 

I am not on my boat now and want to buy bendable teak 0.8 mm to renovate the companion way washboard because bits of the teak veneer are coming off. So I need dimensions of the washboard. Anyone on board of his SM will be so kind to e-mail me these dimensions?

 

Regards,

 

Willem Kroes

 

SM#351 KAVANGA

 

 

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

Willem Kroes
 

Thanks Mike, I will order today.

 

Kind regards,

 

Willem

 

SM#351 KAVANGA

Van: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Verzonden: zondag 2 december 2018 17:33
Aan: amelyachtowners@...
Onderwerp: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

 

Willem,

Below is a copy of my order for part number 13714X2 that seems to work fine. (I am not sure if pasted graphics come through on the Bulletin Board.) Rock Auto has several profiles for what they call Belt Weatherstrip that can work if you want to explore a bit.

Mike

ALETES SM#240 St. Augustine, FL

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 8:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Companionway ( washboard ) rubber seal replacement?

 

 

Hi Alan,

 

What was the part number of the seal you bought from Rockauto?

 

Best regards,

 

Willem Kroes

 

SM#351 KAVANGA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bonfiglioli Main Furler Schematic

Ian Townsend
 

Our furler is now operational. Ultimately, the primary root cause was a seized bearing, the one closest to the motor. Other components definitely needed attention as well but were not  critical. We cleaned it all, greased it up (vs. gear oil because we didn't trust the seals) and reinstalled the unit. However, I will take the good advice of the forum and stock two spare gear boxes. Thanks all for your input.

Note to older SM owners. We started diagnosing the issue by electrical troubleshooting. Unlike SM2Ks, there are no relays. Just the solenoids in the drop down panel above the dryer rack in the fwd head. 

Lastly, I was very impressed with how easy it was to drop the furler and go manual. We did this for a couple of passages. Sweet design. No struggles.


Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA

On Dec 1, 2018, at 4:34 AM, Ian parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ian
I presume you have dropped the motor/gearbox unit and checked that the furler operates with the winch handle?
If you have also checked that the motor runs when disconnected from the gearbox, then the gearbox is the problem. If the motor does turn the gearbox then the gears have stripped. If it just jams, then the gearbox is seized. If either of these, get two new gearboxes, because the outhaul one will be in a similar condition.
I bought 2 Bonfiglios last year and replaced them both. They are a simple right angle gear drive.
Do have a look in the Amel Owners archives. There are photos of disassembly of both types of gearbox Amel used, but I believe they are not interchangeable. Alex (Nikimat) did a direct comparison of both Bonfiglio and Leroy Summers gearboxes to show the differences.
The furler gearbox is simple to change, although I did need a hydraulic press to get the drive shaft out of it. The outhaul gearbox removal was a bigger problem, and Amel Martinique removed the boom to take it to their workshop for removal.
The Bonfiglio gearbox comes filled with grease (sealed for life). Amel separated the one they fitted for me, cleaned it out and refilled it with hypoid 90 gearbox oil. There are discussion topics on grease v oil and the installation of grease nipples to renew whichever lubricant you decide on as a routine service item.

In UK I paid less than £200 for each gearbox. It seems they are readily obtainable. My suggestion would be to order two, even if you can free up the existing ones. And do follow the advice of other Amelians who have experienced the replacement process - take the Anderson line tender off the outhaul gearbox every year and regrease the shaft and woodruff key - otherwise even a sledgehammer won’t move it! (I watched Amel try!).

Good luck

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Missing furler release knob

greatketch@...
 

We are in luck... I happen to have the jib furler apart on my boat for routine maintenance.  I can photograph and measure the parts of the drive pin if anyone needs them.

One thing I can reassure people about, there is not a furling pin thief running around.  It is impossible to remove the pin without disassembling the furling drum.  It is possible for the handle to unscrew from the pin, and be lost.  The good news would be that the pin itself is still in the furling drum.

Note that this is the new style split furling drum. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Paul Osterberg
 

We have a split lead antenna, that is put outside the back stay https://gamelectronicsinc.com/product/split-lead-gammckim-ssb/
Very easy to install, we have communicated with Chris Parker all the way between Hampton Virginia to Antigua and we heard him well as so did he with us
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Dean,

 

When I bought my 54 she also missed the OEM AMEL whip.

 

I asked AMEL to send a new whip and they suggested to have a backstay antenna as it would be very difficult & cost prohibitive to ship an AMEL whip to NEW CALEDONIA.

So that’s what I did – reading the suggestions on this forum I will make some modifications but will stay with the backstay antenna.

 

Best Regards Teun

 

AMELIT A54 #128

NOUMEA  NEW CALEDONIA

Dec 03, 2018   20:37:47

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 8:09 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

 

 

Thanks Daniel,
Interesting (and entertaining), definitely food for thought. I had not considered Joel’s third argumennt at all! For me, another point for consideration would be the cumbersome/unsightly nature of the whip (even before it degrades).

At this stage I’m still not fully convinced about which Tx antenna solution I prefer. I believe a properly sized backstay antenna (in concert with a good antenna tuner) is every bit as efficient as a whip antenna.
In the unlikely event that my rig comes down and I really need to make “that” call, my first response is more likely to be EPIRB activation followed by digging out my emergency antenna.
(Anyone know of a dismasted SM or 54?)
Long term degradation of a whip is managed easily by replacement, and the poor aesthetic is offset by the ease of installation with no requirement for a rigger.

It’s still a line ball for me right now !
Luckily I have a few more months to think about it 😜

Many thanks
Dean Gillies
SY Stella
Amel 54#154

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel54 SSB installation

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Dean, 
The little stand off spacers are on my list of “things to do”.

No leakage problems.

Nick “Amelia”


On 3 Dec 2018, at 00:20, trifin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Nick,
Great feedback! That is exactly the configuration I have in mind if I go down the backstay path.

Did you use spacers between the plastic tube holding the feed cable and the lower part of the backstay.
Also, do you have any leakage problems in the antenna feed cable?

Cheers
Dean